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  1. #1
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    Any significance to orange as gang color?

    I need to know if there is any significance in gang communication to the color orange. I've found ONE reference to it saying that it means that the person gets along with both Bloods and Crips. But I've been unable to find any confirmation of that.

    I can't give any background for why I am asking this question. All I can say is, depending on the answer, it may or may not have an impact on my personal safety. If it has no meaning, no big deal. If it does...
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

  2. #2
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    Too many variables...needs to be specific to neighborhoods....and maybe even to a street/block.

    In Los Angeles, for example, the Grape Street Crips (Crips usually wear blue), wore purple (grape).

    Due to your "no background" policy on this one, you may need to post in the state section where it's an issue and hope someone, there, knows.

    And, courtesy of Google, here's a link: http://www.gangsorus.com/clothing.html

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Kieth M.; 07-31-2008 at 03:25 PM.
    "Many times, I have thoughts and feelings which can only be expressed through dance!" - Bender, Futurama

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  3. #3
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    Blaze orange is a gang color in most states. They're called "Hunters". Most of them gather in remote areas and tend to burn small piles of wood at night while some of them consume alcoholic beverages and constantly repeat lies and exaggerations about past crimes and antics. They get more active in the fall but you could see them any time. Their vehicles are usually adorned by various markers and slogans related to the killing of helpless animals. The vehicles may also be capable of extended off-road travel abilities- no doulbt to elude authorities. I've found that the group is usually very well armed. The most outspoken ones can usually be identified by decals and stickers with the initials of their slogan that was recently decoded by federal officials: "Never Run Away" or N.R.A.

  4. #4
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    ok, this is helpful because the gang on my street I know to be estabishing a connection with the Bloods, whereas a rival gang a few streets over uses purple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieth M. View Post
    Too many variables...needs to be specific to neighborhoods....and maybe even to a street/block.

    In Los Angeles, for example, the Grape Street Crips (Crips usually wear blue), wore purple (grape).

    Due to your "no background" policy on this one, you may need to post in the state section where it's an issue and hope someone, there, knows.

    And, courtesy of Google, here's a link: http://www.gangsorus.com/clothing.html

    Good luck.
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 417Lt View Post
    Blaze orange is a gang color in most states. They're called "Hunters". Most of them gather in remote areas and tend to burn small piles of wood at night while some of them consume alcoholic beverages and constantly repeat lies and exaggerations about past crimes and antics. They get more active in the fall but you could see them any time. Their vehicles are usually adorned by various markers and slogans related to the killing of helpless animals. The vehicles may also be capable of extended off-road travel abilities- no doulbt to elude authorities. I've found that the group is usually very well armed. The most outspoken ones can usually be identified by decals and stickers with the initials of their slogan that was recently decoded by federal officials: "Never Run Away" or N.R.A.
    That's too, too, funny!

    Their rivals are known, nationally, as "Hunter's Widows," a group who bemoans the outings of the men in blaze orange and the time and costs associated with same. Yet, when congregating at area malls they too, spend their time on the prowl and throw money at needless feel-good quick fixes. Attempts to reign in the behavior of this second group have, so far, proved fruitless.
    "Many times, I have thoughts and feelings which can only be expressed through dance!" - Bender, Futurama

    "Ranking right up there with 'No good deed goes unpunished' are:

    'Sooner or later, we just might outlive our usefulness to others' and...

    'Sometimes it's very possible to push the most loving and loyal person, beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t'"
    - Yours truly

  6. #6
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    If you had the slightest idea what has been going down in the last 10 days you would not make light of this.

    I'm not going to give the background because most of what I know about this comes from a homicide investigator and I cannot disclose any of that.

    Laugh all you want. There are already four bodies (HUMAN bodies) on this situation, possibly more. I don't want the fifth one to be mine.

    I was able to get helpful information from a previous thread (now deleted -- I deleted all the information I posted noting the delete was for safety reasons; the entire thread is now deleted) from officers who took me seriously. That information helped ME to take this situation more seriously.

    You want to make a joke out of this you go right ahead.
    Last edited by rubyrose; 07-31-2008 at 06:02 PM.
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubyrose View Post
    Laugh all you want. There are already four bodies (HUMAN bodies) on this situation, possibly more. I don't want the fifth one to be mine.

    You want to make a joke out of this you go right ahead.
    Look, I'm sorry if I brought humor into the thread.....but you are the one who played your cards close to the vest and did not reveal the fact that there were four dead bodies attached to your question.

    Your profile of being a writer and professor did not allude to your proximity to the death and violence you are concerned about. For all I knew you were reserching for something you intended to write about. My first response gave you my opinion and a link where you might have found assistance for your subject. Then someone else made a joke, and I fell in line. My apologies.

    Very few things are taken seriously on this site - unless it's a death & dying issue. As I said, facts YOU failed to include.

    Perhaps you'll consider changing your profile, albeit temporarily, from "Humor being (your) business" to "Danger being (your) business."

    In the mean time, to see that I no longer misunderstand what you say or mean, I'll place you on my ignore list and we'll get along, just fine. I suggest you place me on yours. Deal?
    Last edited by Kieth M.; 07-31-2008 at 07:08 PM.
    "Many times, I have thoughts and feelings which can only be expressed through dance!" - Bender, Futurama

    "Ranking right up there with 'No good deed goes unpunished' are:

    'Sooner or later, we just might outlive our usefulness to others' and...

    'Sometimes it's very possible to push the most loving and loyal person, beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t'"
    - Yours truly

  8. #8
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    "CRIPS Mostly wear blue, gray, orange and purple Refer to each other as "cuz' or 'cousin' and cross out Bs Crips sometimes use the six-pointed Star of David as a symbol"

    from http://www.knowgangs.com/news/mar06/2703.htm


    EDIT:

    It could also be an indicator of a hybrid gang too. Any pics of tagging or possible members might shed more light. Just be circumspect - this IS a public forum.
    Last edited by nuthead; 07-31-2008 at 07:35 PM.
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  9. #9
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    I would also advise talking to whoever is over the gang unit with the local PD. They're usually more current with gang info and can sometimes do things that a patrol officer may not be aware of.
    “We don't disagree, you are wrong. Until you have a clue what you are talking about we can't disagree.” - cgh6366

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 417Lt View Post
    Blaze orange is a gang color in most states. They're called "Hunters". Most of them gather in remote areas and tend to burn small piles of wood at night while some of them consume alcoholic beverages and constantly repeat lies and exaggerations about past crimes and antics. They get more active in the fall but you could see them any time. Their vehicles are usually adorned by various markers and slogans related to the killing of helpless animals. The vehicles may also be capable of extended off-road travel abilities- no doulbt to elude authorities. I've found that the group is usually very well armed. The most outspoken ones can usually be identified by decals and stickers with the initials of their slogan that was recently decoded by federal officials: "Never Run Away" or N.R.A.
    Ha-ha. Priceless.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuthead View Post
    I would also advise talking to whoever is over the gang unit with the local PD. They're usually more current with gang info and can sometimes do things that a patrol officer may not be aware of.
    X2

    Ruby,

    I would expect your local LE would have better gang intelligence than what you can get here. Why doesn't your homicide investigator contact the locals him/herself?
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  12. #12
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    I played my cards close for a good reason. Aside from the issues involved in the situation there are people here who have ripped me to shreds for being what they call a "drama queen." (Never mind I don't need to be so; I have so much real drama on my street I don't even need a tv.) Your post seemed to me to fit right into that genre.

    I figured if I mentioned the bodies, oh well, here come the drama queen crits.

    I used to have "Citizen Volunteer" as my tag and I used an image of my CPA graduate pin, but I got ripped on that as well.

    No, I don't feel the need to put you on my ignore list. You are certainly welcome to put me on yours.

    I have written extensively here before about problems in my neighborhood and of the volunteer work I do. Of course, I don't expect everyone to read everything I write. Apparently you have missed that. That's ok, NBD.




    Quote Originally Posted by Kieth M. View Post
    Look, I'm sorry if I brought humor into the thread.....but you are the one who played your cards close to the vest and did not reveal the fact that there were four dead bodies attached to your question.

    Your profile of being a writer and professor did not allude to your proximity to the death and violence you are concerned about. For all I knew you were reserching for something you intended to write about. My first response gave you my opinion and a link where you might have found assistance for your subject. Then someone else made a joke, and I fell in line. My apologies.

    Very few things are taken seriously on this site - unless it's a death & dying issue. As I said, facts YOU failed to include.

    Perhaps you'll consider changing your profile, albeit temporarily, from "Humor being (your) business" to "Danger being (your) business."

    In the mean time, to see that I no longer misunderstand what you say or mean, I'll place you on my ignore list and we'll get along, just fine. I suggest you place me on yours. Deal?
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

  13. #13
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    See, this is the thing. I have calls in to several people and I am waiting for a call back. So I figured I'd ask this group while I wait, see if anyone here can come up with anything.

    Thanks nuthead! Appreciate your support.

    Quote Originally Posted by nuthead View Post
    I would also advise talking to whoever is over the gang unit with the local PD. They're usually more current with gang info and can sometimes do things that a patrol officer may not be aware of.
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

  14. #14
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    If you have a situation involving possible death or serious injury to yourself or anyone else, what in the world are you doing seeking advice from a bunch of anonymous internet posters spread all over the planet? Even if you are waiting for a call-back you should be waiting with your back to a wall with a loaded .44 in your hand; or at a police station if that's more to your liking. I would suggest seeking help from local authorities, if you can trust them enough to tell them all the details and facts.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 417Lt View Post
    Blaze orange is a gang color in most states. They're called "Hunters". Most of them gather in remote areas and tend to burn small piles of wood at night while some of them consume alcoholic beverages and constantly repeat lies and exaggerations about past crimes and antics. They get more active in the fall but you could see them any time. Their vehicles are usually adorned by various markers and slogans related to the killing of helpless animals. The vehicles may also be capable of extended off-road travel abilities- no doulbt to elude authorities. I've found that the group is usually very well armed. The most outspoken ones can usually be identified by decals and stickers with the initials of their slogan that was recently decoded by federal officials: "Never Run Away" or N.R.A.
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  16. #16
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    I have received a PM from a forum member providing information that is extremely helpful.

    What is most helpful about the information is that, because of that information, I now know that a neighbor across the street (and possibly my downstairs neighbor) cannot be trusted. Both of these women over the last two years have befriended me and I have trusted them with information I now know I should not have.

    Thanks to the PM I got answers I can use to HELP investigators understand why this situation is as serious as it is.

    See, here's the thing -- one of the things I have learned is that I know more about local gangs than several of the officers and emergency communications personnel I have been in contact with.

    When I felt threatened this afternoon I called 911 and by the time I got through explaining to the operator exactly why what has been transpiring over the last several days is indeed indicative of a serious problem, the persons in question had left the scene. So I said ok, I want to file a report. The officer with whom I filed the report (also over the phone) ALSO could not comprehend the significance and I had to repeatedly remind him that the only reason I was seeing this overall situation as a threat was because a homicide investigator had TOLD me that it was. Not to mention that the Chief had said so also and had assigned a platoon supervisor to work with me on the problem.

    I spoke to the Chief at 3pm today and have been waiting for the assigned person to call me back. If I walked into a police station they would have told me to go home and wait for that call.

    For my protection I have also discussed the matter with a friend of mine who is a former watch commander and now runs curriculum at the academy. And the last two nights I've had a friend sitting with me on my porch -- former corrections officer, 6'5", 300+ lbs, and the "right color" if you catch my drift.

    I don't believe that .44 is going to do me as much good as you think it will. The four bodies in this situation -- all of them had guns. Fat lot of good that did them.

    While it affords some protection over not having one, in this situation the only way it would be any real protection is if I went walking around carrying the gun in my hand prepared to point it at anyone who seemed threatening. But you CAN'T do that, and there are good reasons you can't do that.

    I don't believe these guys intend to hurt me, they only want me to BELIEVE they will hurt me so I will stop doing my "good citizen" work. Nonetheless, as the homicide investigator insisted, I still have to have the PD informed every step of the way because the guys we are dealing with are no strangers to violence.

    Having this bit of information that makes it clear there are two people I trusted before and can no longer ALONE improves my safety. Without this information I could let slip something that could do me in.

    So, all things considered, posting here worked out very well for me. Very well indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by 417Lt View Post
    If you have a situation involving possible death or serious injury to yourself or anyone else, what in the world are you doing seeking advice from a bunch of anonymous internet posters spread all over the planet? Even if you are waiting for a call-back you should be waiting with your back to a wall with a loaded .44 in your hand; or at a police station if that's more to your liking. I would suggest seeking help from local authorities, if you can trust them enough to tell them all the details and facts.
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubyrose View Post
    See, here's the thing -- one of the things I have learned is that I know more about local gangs than several of the officers and emergency communications personnel I have been in contact with.
    I'm glad to hear that posting here has helped you out quite a bit. But, seriously, if you know so much more than the officers do maybe it is time for you to sit down with them and actually share that information (which it sounds like you are about to do).

    Good luck with your issue and I hope it works out well for you.
    The above comments reflect the personal, off-the-record, unofficial opinions of the individual posting them only, and in no way, shape, or form should be taken to indicate any particular opinion, policy, or belief by the poster's or any other agency, governmental entity, organization, or corporation. Thank you and have a nice day.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubyrose View Post
    I have received a PM from a forum member providing information that is extremely helpful.

    What is most helpful about the information is that, because of that information, I now know that a neighbor across the street (and possibly my downstairs neighbor) cannot be trusted. Both of these women over the last two years have befriended me and I have trusted them with information I now know I should not have.

    Thanks to the PM I got answers I can use to HELP investigators understand why this situation is as serious as it is.

    See, here's the thing -- one of the things I have learned is that I know more about local gangs than several of the officers and emergency communications personnel I have been in contact with.

    When I felt threatened this afternoon I called 911 and by the time I got through explaining to the operator exactly why what has been transpiring over the last several days is indeed indicative of a serious problem, the persons in question had left the scene. So I said ok, I want to file a report. The officer with whom I filed the report (also over the phone) ALSO could not comprehend the significance and I had to repeatedly remind him that the only reason I was seeing this overall situation as a threat was because a homicide investigator had TOLD me that it was. Not to mention that the Chief had said so also and had assigned a platoon supervisor to work with me on the problem.

    I spoke to the Chief at 3pm today and have been waiting for the assigned person to call me back. If I walked into a police station they would have told me to go home and wait for that call.

    For my protection I have also discussed the matter with a friend of mine who is a former watch commander and now runs curriculum at the academy. And the last two nights I've had a friend sitting with me on my porch -- former corrections officer, 6'5", 300+ lbs, and the "right color" if you catch my drift.

    I don't believe that .44 is going to do me as much good as you think it will. The four bodies in this situation -- all of them had guns. Fat lot of good that did them.

    While it affords some protection over not having one, in this situation the only way it would be any real protection is if I went walking around carrying the gun in my hand prepared to point it at anyone who seemed threatening. But you CAN'T do that, and there are good reasons you can't do that.

    I don't believe these guys intend to hurt me, they only want me to BELIEVE they will hurt me so I will stop doing my "good citizen" work. Nonetheless, as the homicide investigator insisted, I still have to have the PD informed every step of the way because the guys we are dealing with are no strangers to violence.

    Having this bit of information that makes it clear there are two people I trusted before and can no longer ALONE improves my safety. Without this information I could let slip something that could do me in.

    So, all things considered, posting here worked out very well for me. Very well indeed.
    So the chief and homicide investigator know all about the local gangs, but the officers working the streets don't know about them?

  19. #19
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    The officers know SOME. Not nearly enough.

    TWO sector crime prevention officers I spoke to apparently were unaware of the gang affiliations of a young man who was recently convicted of two homicides and another shooting, plus the gang affiliation of another shooter who was recently arrested for killing the convicted shooter's brother. That was also news to the 311 (non emergency police) officer I spoke with. As well as officers on the street with whom I have spoken.

    Sad, but unfortunately true. I'm on a campaign now to question why this is the case.

    Not to mention there's been some serious drug business going down right in front of cameras what are supposed to be closely monitored by the PD. My guess is that things were calm for a while after the cameras were up, so they got complacent. A lot of arrests were made in the beginning, then the thugs figured out how far those cameras could reach. Then after a long period of calm, they tested them out by putting kids on the corner just hanging out. Here if you are hanging out on a known drug corner, thats a legitimate stop and talk. I am guessing that after no police showed up for that (different pattern from before), they figured the "coast was clear"




    ap
    Quote Originally Posted by madchiken View Post
    So the chief and homicide investigator know all about the local gangs, but the officers working he streets don't know about them?
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

  20. #20
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    I have every intention of doing so.

    It wasn't until Weds. night I figured out how little many officers seem to understand about the gang activities. It also wasn't until last week (when I sat through a murder trial and later spoke to the investigator) and then did some research on MySpace, then connected the dots with more general information I have about local gangs, that I figured things out myself.

    It's not my job to educate patrol, but rather the job of the powers that be. I intend to be pushing that -- privately with my personal contacts in administration.

    Because we have had a huge slew of retirements in the last few years, accompanied by an even larger slew of new recruits, it is likely that the relevant information has fallen through the cracks.

    I will, of course, speak to those officers who already know and respect me.

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteTeach View Post
    I'm glad to hear that posting here has helped you out quite a bit. But, seriously, if you know so much more than the officers do maybe it is time for you to sit down with them and actually share that information (which it sounds like you are about to do).

    Good luck with your issue and I hope it works out well for you.
    Last edited by rubyrose; 08-01-2008 at 09:48 AM.
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

  21. #21
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    As it turns out (see above) I got what I needed here while waiting for the investigator to return my call. Because the main concern involved having to determine whether I could trust people whom I had relied upon before, it was important to get an answer as soon as possible.

    I was feeling threatened by several events and I was thinking of turning to these two supposed friends for help. Now I know better.

    Sorry I was not more specific.

    I appreciate everyone's suggestions.

    Quote Originally Posted by exComptonCop View Post
    X2

    Ruby,

    I would expect your local LE would have better gang intelligence than what you can get here. Why doesn't your homicide investigator contact the locals him/herself?
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

  22. #22
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    Update:

    I am guessing that the 911 call I made yesterday reporting drug transactions on a nearby corner directly in front of police surveillance cameras that are SUPPOSED to be monitored had some effect last night.

    Yesterday I could not sit on my front porch for 2 minutes without a contingent of local thugs doing their slow reconnaissance around my own corner, flashing gang colors, stopping for several minutes and talking loud trash where I could hear it. I made the call about the drug transactions shortly before I was to leave for one of my volunteer activities, and upon my return I found the street dramatically different. The street was virtually empty. This morning I've been here for over an hour and not one incident. The street is back to the same conditions we had shortly after the local bad boyz figured out how far the cameras could reach.

    So the threat seems to have diminished. Of course, I will still be cautious.

    Thanks to everyone who assisted or tried to assist...aside from the information it is very helpful to have people's best wishes.
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

  23. #23
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    Further update:

    The pièce de résistance (i.e., the most important or remarkable feature) of this morning's "entertainment"...

    Yesterday morning my FIRST clue of the seriousness of the situation was when I saw a young man whom I had NEVER seen in saggy pants before walk by with his pants down below his rear and flashing bright red underwear. (He actually looked to be a bit embarrassed — I gather he was doing this on orders.)

    All day long subsequent to that I could not be on my porch for five minutes without experiencing countless efforts at intimidation (actions that fall short of actual verbal threats because they know they can be arrested for those).

    But as I noted above that dramatically changed when I returned home after being out for volunteer activities on the other side of town (and after I'd made 911 calls about drug transactions in front of the PD camera).

    This morning just as I was about to get up from my chair after putting in a couple of hours (I have my laptop so I can work while I sit), in addition to the street being clear that whole time, I saw that very same young man dressed very neatly (he could ALMOST go on a job interview with that look!), and with his pants up where they are supposed to be.

    As he passed by me he kept his eyes on the other side of the street until just before he would be out of eyesight. Then he turned his eyes to check quickly. Of course I was staring him down with the meanest expression I could muster. He looked away immediately.

    Working with the PD is clearly a heck of a lot more effective than having a gun in my hand, which, if these thugs knew I had, would very likely subject me to a burglary in my absence, not to mention being an "in your face" challenge.

    The problem I am up against is that these guys know how to perform intimidating acts that stop short of being something they can get arrested for.

    For example, Tuesday morning as I was about to leave for the courthouse (a certain local gang member was to be arraigned that morning on the murder of the brother of the rival gang member who was convicted last week), there was one young man sitting on a bike across the street with a cell phone.

    Ok, is that a threat? Potentially (as you will see in a minute), but I cannot act on that. It's not even a 911 call.

    As I was walking toward my car (which has to be parked on the street, in a specific spot designated as my handicapped spot), another young man whom I have positively identified as a gang member from his MySpace page (and who has engaged in previous threatening behaviors) comes around the corner and maneuvers his way around so he can pass within a foot of me as I get into my car. (The location of the car in reference to the corner is such that, for him to pass that closely, he would have to purposely maneuver his direction.)

    Is that a threat? You bet it is. It's a symbolic threat. He is letting me know that if he had wanted to hurt me at that moment he absolutely could have.

    But how do I interpret that in terms of actions to take? No words were spoken, and the guy keeps on walking.

    What I did in response was pull out my cell phone and take pictures of them. Now, those pics did not turn out well. But they don't know that. As soon as I started doing that they started high-tailing it away. The guy on the bike most likely was a spotter to let the other guy know when I was coming out my door.

    Suppose I did have a CCW and had a gun on me. His passing closely like that is not sufficient for reason for me to pull a gun on him. It is not even sufficient reason for me to use pepper spray. It's not even 911 worthy.

    However, at that moment if he wanted to he could EASILY have pulled a gun and shot me in that split second while I was trying to figure out what to do.

    So, I could have a gun and still be shot dead.

    That's why I keep insisting that my best protection is not a gun, it's my brain, my connections with the PD, and my knowledge of how to work those connections. In fact, there are many ways in which I can see gun ownership as detrimental -- precisely around those issues of having to decide when to use it.

    These guys would LOVE to scare me enough so that I will pull a weapon on them. Then they can say I'm just some crazy racist white b***h who thinks all black men are criminals out to hurt her.

    This was a stare-down contest. I won this round, thanks to (apparently) the eventual PD response.

    Guns are not much use in a stare-down contest, because if you pull a gun (or any other weapon) in a situation like this, you have by that very fact lost the stare-down. If you pull a weapon, you blinked.

    ***
    Incidentally, a friend informed me that the location of the "sag" with the saggy pants has its own set of meanings.

    The snazzy dressers (no sags) are top dogs. The lower the sag, the lower the person is on the totem. The ones showing their full rear ends are lowest.

    Don't know whether that's true or not (I don't believe anything until I get confirmation from several sources), but something to think about and consider while observing.

    ***
    Again, MANY thanks to those who PM'd me their support and suggestions.
    Last edited by rubyrose; 08-01-2008 at 01:34 PM.
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

  24. #24
    LE Cheetah
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    Ruby, I think you might take the "having a gun" thing a little too hard (maybe bad choice of words, but I couldn't think of a better term). A gun is a tool. Just as a hammer isn't the best tool to loosen or tighten a nut, sometimes a gun isn't the best choice the situation calls for. However, it's better to have all the tools, as it gives you more options. It's why I have an asp and OC spray on my belt with my gun...even though I'm more likely to not need any of them. If guns aren't your "thing", so be it, each to their own. However, it's better to have and not need than to need and not have.
    “We don't disagree, you are wrong. Until you have a clue what you are talking about we can't disagree.” - cgh6366

  25. #25
    public safety activist
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    Well, my main concern would be that I would not make the best choice as to when to use it. Simply HAVING a gun is not protection unless you know not only HOW but WHEN to use it. To be effective I believe I would need to have some serious training on that. Otherwise it's more likely to do more harm than good.

    That's my point. A gun on a well-trained officer (or even a well-trained law-abiding citizen) is an effective tool. A gun on an untrained citizen is just as likely to be detrimental as helpful.

    Believe me, I have given serious thought to equipping myself. I already know I start out with an apparently native ability to aim and shoot accurately (at least at a stationary paper target!). However I would not be able to arm myself immediately, much less train. I don't even have the money to purchase and it would take time to get a permit.

    The last thing I need is to be arrested on an illegal weapons charge -- or place my LE friends in the position of having to decide what to do about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by nuthead View Post
    Ruby, I think you might take the "having a gun" thing a little too hard (maybe bad choice of words, but I couldn't think of a better term). A gun is a tool. Just as a hammer isn't the best tool to loosen or tighten a nut, sometimes a gun isn't the best choice the situation calls for. However, it's better to have all the tools, as it gives you more options. It's why I have an asp and OC spray on my belt with my gun...even though I'm more likely to not need any of them. If guns aren't your "thing", so be it, each to their own. However, it's better to have and not need than to need and not have.
    Last edited by rubyrose; 08-01-2008 at 02:42 PM.
    Hatred never ceases by hatred, but by love alone is healed.
    Happiness never decreases by being shared. -- Buddhist quotation
    A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -- Proverbs 15:1

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