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  1. #1
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    Disarming CCW carriers.

    Hello,

    I am not permitted to respond to another post of the same topic, so I will post here.

    I am a civilian with valid CCW license.

    Up until now, I have taken all "bad cop" comments with a grain of salt. I respect the threats you face daily, but we aren't one.

    In the last 2 days, fellow CCW's have been spread over the hood of their car, searched, questioned as to "why they carry 2 guns", had backup called with firearms drawn.

    Still, I assumed these were "rare", and I always questioned the validity of such encounters, until now. After reading a similar post under "Ask an officer" I am truly mortified. In Ohio, we are required to notify (hopefully Ohio HB 225 will eliminate this soon). I had always planned on notifying anyway, regardless of state law, as a courtesy. That will never happen. If I am not "required" to notify, I won't.

    The thought of being removed from my vehicle and thrown over the hood of my car while my 6 year old looks on is terrifying. Officers here have stated they "don't care" about the civilian's feelings, they will do whatever they choose.

    Would you do the same to my wife?

    To what extent will you go? When do my rights, or dignity, end and your power begin...for a traffic stop?

    I feel only embarrassment for those that have posted so strongly.
    Last edited by jacksnack; 03-31-2008 at 08:34 PM.

  2. #2
    Forum Member -Erik-'s Avatar
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    If you get disarmed, deal with it. You will get your gun back when the stop is done and over with. No harm, no fowl. You can be away from your gun for the 15 minutes you are issued a citation. So sorry if you feel that infringes on your holy second amendment right.

    Its for officer safety and for yours. Deal.

  3. #3
    Grunt0311
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    Here is my take on the matter. Do criminals take the time and spend the money to get CCW's? No. Can a traffic stop go bad at any time? Yes. I can't see myself throwing you on your hood just because you have a CCW. However, I also wouldn't let you hold your weapon while I had you stopped. I would ask you where your weapon was, have you step out, I will remove it, then hand it back to you unloaded when we had concluded our business. By the nature of my profession, I don't like being around other people that are armed unless they are LE.

  4. #4
    Lather it like its stolen CityCopDC's Avatar
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    Sorry you were mortified....
    Yes I would disarm your wife, grandmother, uncle or aunt.
    If you do as I say you wont be "thrown on the hood".
    How you "feel" does not concern me..

  5. #5
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    I am from Ohio.

    The instances that scare me are where the LE struggles with getting the CHL's gun from the holster while reaching in through the car window. This would scare the heck out of me to have that fumbling going on while a gun like a Glock was pointed at my body.

    Personally I wish we did not have to notify of our armed status, plenty of states are that way and nobody dies. I know LE from those states and it does not bother them at all not knowing. They do not get info about CHL's on their MDT, and the motorist does not have to notify them.

    Bill

  6. #6
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    I think a LEO being able to make it home at night is more important than your embarrassment. Why else do you think they do it? For fun?

    I know you said "you're not a threat", but I'm sure you know people lie to the police all the time, what makes you so differenet that an officer can trust your words without doubt? Just because your a CCW holder? So an officer should put their life in your hands because of it?

    Just a fellow civilian comment, since you seem tired of hearing LEOs repeat themselves.

  7. #7
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    Sorry about the embarrassment but I don't know why people don't get such a simple subject:

    Having a CCW, to me, doesn't make you any different than anyone that's being stopped on a traffic stop. Regardless of the situation, YOU HAVE A GUN, AND GUNS ARE USED TO KILL PEOPLE. Its as simple as that.

    What if you decide that you've had a bad day and that you don't want a ticket from the LEO that's giving you one, It only takes a split second to snap and make a bad decision that will cost u the rest of your life, and possibly the LEO that you or anyone else decides to fire at.

    Asking why you need a gun in the first place is a good question, but i see know reason to ask if I disarm you and hav in in my possession. As long as you comply with their demands, I doubt an LEO would "throw you over the car" for fun.

    Just the fact that you say that as soon as its not against the law not to tell an LEO that your armed, that you wouldnt tell him/her, makes me want to disarm you anywyz because regardless of how you feel, they don't know what their walking up to when they approach your car, its a rolling JackNTheBox analogy.

    All in all, I'd say get over it, they're not violating your rights, just doing their job within their departments policy, and making sure they go home to their families when they get off of work, regardless of how "embarrassed" they feel in front of them when they get there. Its 15 minutes without your gun. Deal with it man, sorry

  8. #8
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    Honestly, the guy stopping me is running the show, thats the law, thats the reality.

    I HAVE been stopped by OSHP when I was legally armed, notified as the law required, and was not disarmed. One officer did quip "just don't shoot me ok?". I have always been VERY clear about asking if I could unbuckle my seatbelt and get my wallet and waiting for them to tell me it was ok to do so.

    I want to go home alive too, not gut shot by a person who was fumbling around trying to disarm me.

    Maybe this is why I live out in the quiet country not in the mean big city.

    The LE I know in states where it is not a legal requirement to notify often make stops and hand out tickets, and walk away never knowing the driver was legally armed. I'm sure they do so too in many cases where the person was ILLEGALLY armed.

    I guess WE need to see to it that the laws are changed to what is safest for US, and everybody else can just "deal"

    Bill
    Last edited by willbird; 03-31-2008 at 09:33 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mp1161 View Post
    I think a LEO being able to make it home at night is more important than your embarrassment. Why else do you think they do it? For fun?

    I know you said "you're not a threat", but I'm sure you know people lie to the police all the time, what makes you so differenet that an officer can trust your words without doubt? Just because your a CCW holder? So an officer should put their life in your hands because of it?

    Just a fellow civilian comment, since you seem tired of hearing LEOs repeat themselves.
    Can't I say the same thing the other way around?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by iMarkVideo View Post
    Can't I say the same thing the other way around?
    I don't know what you mean. Go ahead and say it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by willbird View Post
    Honestly, the guy stopping me is running the show, thats the law, thats the reality.

    I HAVE been stopped by OSHP when I was legally armed, notified as the law required, and was not disarmed. One officer did quip "just don't shoot me ok?". I have always been VERY clear about asking if I could unbuckle my seatbelt and get my wallet and waiting for them to tell me it was ok to do so.

    I want to go home alive too, not gut shot by a person who was fumbling around trying to disarm me.

    Maybe this is why I live out in the quiet country not in the mean big city.

    The LE I know in states where it is not a legal requirement to notify often make stops and hand out tickets, and walk away never knowing the driver was legally armed. I'm sure they do so too in many cases where the person was ILLEGALLY armed.

    I guess WE need to see to it that the laws are changed to what is safest for US, and everybody else can just "deal"

    Bill
    I couldn't of said it any better myself Willbird, thats what I originally wanted to get across with my "novel" i wrote, you just got the point better than me, nicely put

  12. #12
    Lather it like its stolen CityCopDC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willbird View Post
    Honestly, the guy stopping me is running the show, thats the law, thats the reality.
    So since Im running the show, when I disarm you, youll understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by willbird View Post
    I HAVE been stopped by OSHP when I was legally armed, notified as the law required, and was not disarmed. One officer did quip "just don't shoot me ok?". I have always been VERY clear about asking if I could unbuckle my seatbelt and get my wallet and waiting for them to tell me it was ok to do so.
    It varies from officer to officer on how they choose to conduct the stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by willbird View Post
    I want to go home alive too, not gut shot by a person who was fumbling around trying to disarm me.
    I want you to go home alive also. Which Is why you need to follow my instructions.

    Quote Originally Posted by willbird View Post
    Maybe this is why I live out in the quiet country not in the mean big city.
    Ok, since you live out in the country and dont have to worry about it, what is your point?

    Quote Originally Posted by willbird View Post
    The LE I know in states where it is not a legal requirement to notify often make stops and hand out tickets, and walk away never knowing the driver was legally armed. I'm sure they do so too in many cases where the person was ILLEGALLY armed.
    That goes w/o saying. But in states where you are required to notify the officer, that would be your best recourse.

    Quote Originally Posted by willbird View Post
    I guess WE need to see to it that the laws are changed to what is safest for US, and everybody else can just "deal"

    Bill
    Write your senator or whomever. As the law stands now, that is not the case.
    Last edited by CityCopDC; 03-31-2008 at 09:58 PM.

  13. #13
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    Congratulations.

    In only a matter of one hour you have managed to cement a negative image of law enforcement in my mind.

    To say I am shocked would be an understatement. I never would have guessed sworn officers "speak" so arrogantly. The writing of some suggests youth, others nativity, and some both.

    I can only hope some here falsely portrait themselves as such.

    While bills exist to limit law enforcements knowledge of individual CCW status, I will do what I can to see them through, as well as any other bill to restrict the government’s knowledge of private gun ownership.

    A few apples have spoiled the bunch.

    You have proved, without a doubt, power can be abused.

  14. #14
    Forum Member -Erik-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksnack View Post
    Congratulations.

    In only a matter of one hour you have managed to cement a negative image of law enforcement in my mind.
    Why because officers are concerned about there safety? You are just as much a threat to a LEO with a CCW as the guy who doesnt have a CCW and is carrying.

    To say I am shocked would be an understatement. I never would have guessed sworn officers "speak" so arrogantly. The writing of some suggests youth, others nativity, and some both.
    Arrogance? Again about there own safety? I had no idea officers wanting to insure that there own firearm is the only firearm at a stop is somehow bad.

    I can only hope some here falsely portrait themselves as such.
    I never said I was. I am not, but share the same view as many other LEO's.

    While bills exist to limit law enforcements knowledge of individual CCW status, I will do what I can to see them through, as well as any other bill to restrict the government’s knowledge of private gun ownership.
    Again why? You are away from your firearm for all of 15 minutes. Does this hurt you on some deep personal level? You seriously need to seek help if you cannot stand to have your gun taken away from you for all of 15 mins while an officer conducts his or her duty.

    A few apples have spoiled the bunch.

    You have proved, without a doubt, power can be abused.
    Speak for yourself. It is a privilage to carry a concealed firearm. You are the one abusing the privilage by getting all bent out of shape about something that is not an unreasonable action in the slightest.

  15. #15
    Hoosier and proud :D Sharp's Avatar
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    I dont see how disarming you during a traffic stop makes the officer a "bad apple" or an "abuse of power"

    Personally, I think being disarmed is perfectly acceptable. It makes the officer feel safer knowing that your gun is unloaded and out of reach, and the officer feeling more comfortable is a good thing.

    If you dont like being disarmed, dont get stopped.... And dont complain about it either. Theyre not saying you cant carry a gun, theyre just saying theyd feel more comfortable if they had it during the 10min or less of a traffic stop. Its not a big deal.
    "...and the taking of a life is murder. And the punishment for murder is.... well it varies from state to state and by race, but...." - Homer J Simpson.

    Police: "Stop and we'll shoot!"
    Dilbert: "Stop AND we'll shoot? If you're gonna shoot, why should we stop?"
    Police: "Well, it would be alot easier for us. The targets at the shooting range don't run."

    R.I.P. Momma Coleman. You may have left our world, but you have NOT left our hearts.

  16. #16
    Lather it like its stolen CityCopDC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksnack View Post
    Congratulations.

    In only a matter of one hour you have managed to cement a negative image of law enforcement in my mind.
    Your image of LE, butterflies, squirrels, no. 2 pencils or truck drivers does not concern me.

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksnack View Post
    To say I am shocked would be an understatement. I never would have guessed sworn officers "speak" so arrogantly. The writing of some suggests youth, others nativity, and some both.
    It probably says that because you dont like/agree with what was said. Sometimes, the truth hurts.

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksnack View Post
    I can only hope some here falsely portrait themselves as such.
    I mean what I wrote. Cant speak for anyone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksnack View Post
    While bills exist to limit law enforcements knowledge of individual CCW status, I will do what I can to see them through, as well as any other bill to restrict the government’s knowledge of private gun ownership.
    Thats the beauty of this country. You have a voice! Contact those who can make a change and make it happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksnack View Post
    A few apples have spoiled the bunch.
    Same thing can be said for the productive and responsible citizens in society. Should I have a negative outlook on all citizens to include you because some choose to commit crimes?

    Quote Originally Posted by jacksnack View Post
    You have proved, without a doubt, power can be abused.
    What power has been abused? Seems like your going off on the deep end to me because you didnt like what you heard?

  17. #17
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    CityCopDC, I like your style brother. Keep tellin it like it is and i'll keep lovin it lol

  18. #18
    Forum Member 511R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Erik- View Post
    If you get disarmed, deal with it. You will get your gun back when the stop is done and over with. No harm, no fowl. You can be away from your gun for the 15 minutes you are issued a citation. So sorry if you feel that infringes on your holy second amendment right.

    Its for officer safety and for yours. Deal.
    Heh, I see that you are a student. That's good, because you have a lot to learn. I suggest that you start with the constitution, that is after you grow up.

  19. #19
    Enjoys his job Zamkn's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by CityCopDC View Post
    I want you to go home alive also. Which Is why you need to follow my instructions.
    This was classic.
    Last edited by Zamkn; 03-31-2008 at 10:38 PM.
    No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we require him to obey it.
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    The views expressed by this screen name do not represent any civilian,municipal, military, or federal law enforcement agency and are strictly the views of the individual writing. Under no circumstances should someone consider the content of these posts to have anything less than a great deal of sarcasm interlaced throughout. Read at your own risk.

  20. #20
    Hop
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    Jacksnack,
    Whats your beef? The issue of being disarmed all together? Or is it he manner in which these other people were disarmed in your story ie: thrown over the hood etc??

  21. #21
    Enjoys his job Zamkn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksnack View Post
    The writing of some suggests youth, others nativity, and some both.
    na·tiv·i·ty /nəˈtɪvɪti, neɪ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nuh-tiv-i-tee, ney-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
    –noun, plural -ties. 1. birth.
    2. birth with reference to place or attendant circumstances: of Irish nativity.
    3. (initial capital letter) the birth of Christ.
    4. (initial capital letter) the church festival commemorating the birth of Christ; Christmas.
    5. (initial capital letter) a representation of the birth of Christ, as in art.

    I am quite certain no one in this thread has been talking about Christmas.
    No man is above the law and no man is below it: nor do we ask any man's permission when we require him to obey it.
    -Theodore Roosevelt

    The views expressed by this screen name do not represent any civilian,municipal, military, or federal law enforcement agency and are strictly the views of the individual writing. Under no circumstances should someone consider the content of these posts to have anything less than a great deal of sarcasm interlaced throughout. Read at your own risk.

  22. #22
    Forum Member -Erik-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 511R View Post
    Heh, I see that you are a student. That's good, because you have a lot to learn. I suggest that you start with the constitution, that is after you grow up.
    With all due respect....

    The constitution was written when slavery was popular, kicking indians off there land was cool and when women didnt have the vote. Times change buddy. The 2nd amendment is somewhat outdated. When it was written firearm ownership was a nescessary part of life. Today it is far less so. Forgive me if I show very little, if any sympathy, for the guy who is seperated from his firearm for all of 15 minutes.

    I may only be a student, but that does not make me stupid. I know I have alot to learn, but it doesnt take 20+ years on the force to know that disarming a citizen on a traffic stop is a reasonable and safe thing for an officer to do.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Erik- View Post
    With all due respect....

    The constitution was written when slavery was popular, kicking indians off there land was cool and when women didnt have the vote. Times change buddy. The 2nd amendment is somewhat outdated. When it was written firearm ownership was a nescessary part of life. Today it is far less so. Forgive me if I show very little, if any sympathy, for the guy who is seperated from his firearm for all of 15 minutes.

    I may only be a student, but that does not make me stupid. I know I have alot to learn, but it doesnt take 20+ years on the force to know that disarming a citizen on a traffic stop is a reasonable and safe thing for an officer to do.
    Erik, I completely and wholly agree. By the way, last time i checked, there was nothing wrong with being a student lol

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 511R View Post
    I suggest that you start with the constitution, that is after you grow up.
    Please cite the Constitutional paragraph or amendment that prohibits a law enforcement officer from temporarily disarming someone who is carrying legally, then returning the firearm to them at the end of the encounter.

    Pete

  25. #25
    Forum Member 511R's Avatar
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    There seems to be a feeling nowadays, especially among the younger cops, that they are the only ones qualified to carry weapons. I believe strongly in the right of our law-abiding citizens to carry a gun. I know what is walking around out there, and I have seen the face of evil. Personally, I think the more armed good-guys the better. And IMHO, the cops aren't the only good guys. Having said that, I need to insure my own safety when I am contacting people on the street. If I don't know you, then I need to know that you can't shoot me. I know how to be polite, but if that doesn't work, I know how to be effective. I respect your rights, please respect mine.

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