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    Giving Social Security number to LE?

    Am I required to give my social Security number to police when they ask for it? I am under the impression that the only thing legally required is Name, Address and DOB.

    Also, if I am arrested, I know the jail will ask for SS#. Am I legally required to give it to them? What will be the consequences?

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    Wow.. You know, before I address this question, I do want to make a comment on my observation. You have posted so many questions challenging authority and administrative matters of the Law Enforcement field. Why is this? I ask this sincerely, so please dont take offense to it.

    As for the social security question.. Do you have to? That is up to you. What are the consequences? Well, I have addressed this with you before in other matters. Information helps the process along, and refusing to give information that is being requested may hinder results that may be beneficial to you or the questioned person.

    I can tell you from personal experience, the last person that was brought into my detention center, and refused to give me information when I asked, found out that they made a mistake. How? I was not able to finish the intake process with that person. The person being brought in was only going to be held for 12 hours on a public intoxication and then released. Due to the fact that this person could not be properly processed in, that person missed the time constraints needed for a 12 hour hold and release, and was held for court five days later. Once that person went to court, the judge was not pleased with that persons behavior in the detention center, and served another two weeks. Now, me being me.. I would think cooperating and helping the booking officer with his/her questions and answering them may benefit in one way or another, and I would be happy to answer, no matter how mad I was. I had even tried to explain to that person that their cooperation would greatly benefit them. Sadly, not everyone listens, and had to learn the hard way.

    I am not to familiar with California laws, as I do not work there, and there are a lot of laws there, LOL! But, speaking socially, it is always a good rule of thumb to not irritate situations where our future our potential outcomes can be adjusted to our negative behavior.
    Never take what happens personally because of who we are and what we do.. Its a game, at which we are on the other side of the line, and the stakes are higher!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GroundPounder01 View Post
    Wow.. You know, before I address this question, I do want to make a comment on my observation. You have posted so many questions challenging authority and administrative matters of the Law Enforcement field. Why is this? I ask this sincerely, so please dont take offense to it.
    I don't take offense, it's a good question. I think its important that people know their rights and responsibilities when confronted by police. I want to protect my rights and also follow the law at the same time. Some people will assume I must be a criminal if these are the types of questions I am asking. I am not. I just want to learn more about my rights.

    As for the social security question.. Do you have to? That is up to you. What are the consequences? Well, I have addressed this with you before in other matters. Information helps the process along, and refusing to give information that is being requested may hinder results that may be beneficial to you or the questioned person.

    I can tell you from personal experience, the last person that was brought into my detention center, and refused to give me information when I asked, found out that they made a mistake. How? I was not able to finish the intake process with that person. The person being brought in was only going to be held for 12 hours on a public intoxication and then released. Due to the fact that this person could not be properly processed in, that person missed the time constraints needed for a 12 hour hold and release, and was held for court five days later. Once that person went to court, the judge was not pleased with that persons behavior in the detention center, and served another two weeks.
    their behavior? were there other problems other than not giving information? Certainly if they refused their name, that would be a problem. Can u explain a little about being held for 5 days? I thought people had to see a judge or magistrate within a certain period of time?


    Now, me being me.. I would think cooperating and helping the booking officer with his/her questions and answering them may benefit in one way or another, and I would be happy to answer, no matter how mad I was. I had even tried to explain to that person that their cooperation would greatly benefit them. Sadly, not everyone listens, and had to learn the hard way.

    I am not to familiar with California laws, as I do not work there, and there are a lot of laws there, LOL! But, speaking socially, it is always a good rule of thumb to not irritate situations where our future our potential outcomes can be adjusted to our negative behavior.
    I agree. But I also don't think people should be forced to give information they do not feel comfortable giving. Especially when there is no legal requirement to do so. For me, my SS# is a closely guarded secret. Identity theft is a terrible thing, so I guard my SS# fiercely. I don't even carry my SS card in my wallet anymore because my wallet got stolen once. And I put my drivers license in an ankle wallet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMan1 View Post
    I don't take offense, it's a good question. I think its important that people know their rights and responsibilities when confronted by police. I want to protect my rights and also follow the law at the same time. Some people will assume I must be a criminal if these are the types of questions I am asking. I am not. I just want to learn more about my rights.
    Understandable. You have been cordial with me so far, and if you continue in this same manner I am sure you wont have any issues getting more answers!

    Quote Originally Posted by RedMan1 View Post
    their behavior? were there other problems other than not giving information? Certainly if they refused their name, that would be a problem. Can u explain a little about being held for 5 days? I thought people had to see a judge or magistrate within a certain period of time?
    Sadly no. The biggest problem many do not realize is that the documents we (as law enforcement) produce, are required by law to be completed in their entirety and then sent to the court system. Judges, Prosecutors, and defense councils require specific blocks of information to be completed before they will set trial or see the accused. Why it is that specific portions of information is "absolutely" needed or required by the court system is something that would be better answered by someone in that area. As for the period of time, it was within the required amount of time, and had it not been, it would be easily permitted as the person would not be able to have an appearance if the information was not being provided. Judges are really touchy about that along with the clerks office. I assume they like knowing who it is they are going to be seeing. If the hold goes on for too long of a period of time, a judge will see the person, but the outcome would not be too pleasant as I can only assume. I have not had the experience of a newly arrested person holding out on giving information for too long. Generally the ones that like to be difficult in releasing their information realize after having seen council that their situation isnt going to get any better unless they cooperate.


    Quote Originally Posted by RedMan1 View Post
    I agree. But I also don't think people should be forced to give information they do not feel comfortable giving. Especially when there is no legal requirement to do so. For me, my SS# is a closely guarded secret. Identity theft is a terrible thing, so I guard my SS# fiercely. I don't even carry my SS card in my wallet anymore because my wallet got stolen once. And I put my drivers license in an ankle wallet.
    I agree with your concerns of identity theft. That is a serious issue to take to heart... However, you do know that a social security number is issued by a government agency, and that another government agency is asking for it. i am not going to tell you one way or another to give it ou to who ever you would like. But I will say that a law enforcement officer is held accountable for your information more strictly then their own. The penalty for "misusing" a "contacts" personal information is quite severe for law enforcement, and more severe then the average citizen. Not to mention, i can say personally, that I really have too much going on in my daily life to take an interest in another's personal information.

    My best answer would be to contact an attorney and speak with them when it comes to your social security number. They will have the best answers possible. I am only able to answer about the course of action our agency takes when people refuse to give required information in our operating area.
    Never take what happens personally because of who we are and what we do.. Its a game, at which we are on the other side of the line, and the stakes are higher!

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    I can get your social by looking up your drivers license. If your worried about identity theft, get LifeLock.

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    Giving your SS# will also reduce the chance of you being confused with an actual criminal with active warrants. We like to have several identifiers before making a warrant arest, however if your name and DOB is active, and you refuse to give any more info, that is enough to take you in for prints.
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    Legally they don't have to give it in TN. However, when I ask for it, because it is required on the citation, and someone refuses I usually ask for the dispatcher to give it to me over the radio. I then write it on the citation and have them sign.
    Any time I have ever had someone refuse they always did it with an attitude.

    ED

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    I wouldn't think you would have to give it to anyone who asked no matter who it was or thought they were. Besides the, what is it, Secret Service? Aren't they the ones who hand them out and are the only ones, by the Constitution of these United States allowed, to ask for it? Unless it is for tax purpose like Jobs. It always kinda ticked me off when just to eat Lunch at college you had to fill out a form and put your SS# on it. Why do they need my SS# so i can get a card to eat? Does it have to do with my Social Security and taxes?
    Last edited by Jackhole22; 02-24-2008 at 06:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMan1 View Post
    Am I required to give my social Security number to police when they ask for it? I am under the impression that the only thing legally required is Name, Address and DOB.

    Also, if I am arrested, I know the jail will ask for SS#. Am I legally required to give it to them? What will be the consequences?
    Plain and simple. As with everything in life, there is the easy way and there is the hard way. If an officer in the course of their duties asks you for your SSN (for purposes of positive identification), I don't see why you would choose to make a fuss about it. The likelihood of your arresting officer stealing your identity are about 0%, get over it.

    The mindset that you are only going to cooperate as far as the law forces you to is mindboggling. I have met and had conversations with many civil libertarians and other people who are very concerned about their rights. You know what? If I didn't care about our rights, I wouldn't have sworn an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution. If you are in fact a law abiding citizen, why wouldn't you fully cooperate with an officer of the law and not only to the extent to which you are forced to? Explain that one to me.
    "You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall... I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackhole22 View Post
    I wouldn't think you would have to give it to anyone who asked no matter who it was or thought they were. Besides the, what is it, Secret Service? Aren't they the ones who hand them out and are the only ones, by the Constitution of these United States allowed, to ask for it? Unless it is for tax purpose like Jobs. It always kinda ticked me off when just to eat Lunch at college you had to fill out a form and put your SS# on it. Why do they need my SS# so i can get a card to eat? Does it have to do with my Social Security and taxes?
    The Social Security Administration is an independednt government agency. Nothing to do with the Secret Service. P.S. The privacy of your Social Security number has absolutely nothing to do with (at least it wouldn't be mentioned) the Constitution, the SSA was created in 1935...
    Last edited by yellowreef; 02-24-2008 at 06:11 AM.
    "You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall... I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackhole22 View Post
    I wouldn't think you would have to give it to anyone who asked no matter who it was or thought they were. Besides the, what is it, Secret Service? Aren't they the ones who hand them out and are the only ones, by the Constitution of these United States allowed, to ask for it? Unless it is for tax purpose like Jobs. It always kinda ticked me off when just to eat Lunch at college you had to fill out a form and put your SS# on it. Why do they need my SS# so i can get a card to eat? Does it have to do with my Social Security and taxes?
    PLEASE tell me this was a joke!

    Secret Service? Its the SOCIAL SECURITY Administration and I'm fairly certain there is NOTHING in the constitution about social security numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowreef View Post
    Plain and simple. As with everything in life, there is the easy way and there is the hard way. If an officer in the course of their duties asks you for your SSN (for purposes of positive identification), I don't see why you would choose to make a fuss about it. The likelihood of your arresting officer stealing your identity are about 0%, get over it.

    The mindset that you are only going to cooperate as far as the law forces you to is mindboggling. I have met and had conversations with many civil libertarians and other people who are very concerned about their rights. You know what? If I didn't care about our rights, I wouldn't have sworn an oath to uphold and protect the Constitution. If you are in fact a law abiding citizen, why wouldn't you fully cooperate with an officer of the law and not only to the extent to which you are forced to? Explain that one to me.
    I think a good police officer would respect the fact that I am concerned about my personal information being used in an inappropriate way. It may be an inconvenience for them, but the inconvenience does not outweigh my concerns and rights in protecting information that could harm me if it got into the wrong hands. Why are my concerns somehow less important than the police officer's?

    As for the police stealing my SS#, I don't think they would either. However, I would prefer not to take any chances. Police are just like the rest of us, they are not infallible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackhole22 View Post
    I wouldn't think you would have to give it to anyone who asked no matter who it was or thought they were. Besides the, what is it, Secret Service? Aren't they the ones who hand them out and are the only ones, by the Constitution of these United States allowed, to ask for it? Unless it is for tax purpose like Jobs.
    You just can't make this stuff up... lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMan1 View Post
    I think a good police officer would respect the fact that I am concerned about my personal information being used in an inappropriate way. It may be an inconvenience for them, but the inconvenience does not outweigh my concerns and rights in protecting information that could harm me if it got into the wrong hands. Why are my concerns somehow less important than the police officer's?

    As for the police stealing my SS#, I don't think they would either. However, I would prefer not to take any chances. Police are just like the rest of us, they are not infallible.
    Only "bad" Police Officers would bring you in and hold you for prints if you refuse to give it, so the P/O could ascertain your actual identitiy?

    BTW, you give it out at clinics, hospitals, schools and on job apps to people who haven't been screened half as well (and may have criminal records) as most PD's screen their Officers. But, hey, don't give it out when asked, that P/O was just waiting for you to slip up so he could buy 2 cars and a house with it. It would never get traced back to him..

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMan1 View Post
    I don't take offense, it's a good question. I think its important that people know their rights and responsibilities when confronted by police. I want to protect my rights and also follow the law at the same time. Some people will assume I must be a criminal if these are the types of questions I am asking. I am not. I just want to learn more about my rights.


    their behavior? were there other problems other than not giving information? Certainly if they refused their name, that would be a problem. Can u explain a little about being held for 5 days? I thought people had to see a judge or magistrate within a certain period of time?




    I agree. But I also don't think people should be forced to give information they do not feel comfortable giving. Especially when there is no legal requirement to do so. For me, my SS# is a closely guarded secret. Identity theft is a terrible thing, so I guard my SS# fiercely. I don't even carry my SS card in my wallet anymore because my wallet got stolen once. And I put my drivers license in an ankle wallet.
    It blows me away how people (not ordinary people, mind you) try to "fight" for what they believe to be a "big cause." I call it "made up resistance." If the police come for your guns, the government tries to take your home or family, etc ...... okay. But not to give the jail your social? Fine, be a moron and spend time in jail, you drunk idiot (the guy in the above story).

    Oh, and YOUR SSN is EVERYWHERE already. Sure, go ahead and try to "guard it." One of the last places you have to worry about it is with law enforcement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackhole22 View Post
    I wouldn't think you would have to give it to anyone who asked no matter who it was or thought they were. Besides the, what is it, Secret Service? Aren't they the ones who hand them out and are the only ones, by the Constitution of these United States allowed, to ask for it? Unless it is for tax purpose like Jobs. It always kinda ticked me off when just to eat Lunch at college you had to fill out a form and put your SS# on it. Why do they need my SS# so i can get a card to eat? Does it have to do with my Social Security and taxes?
    Fine. Then don't ask for the card.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMan1 View Post
    I think a good police officer would respect the fact that I am concerned about my personal information being used in an inappropriate way. It may be an inconvenience for them, but the inconvenience does not outweigh my concerns and rights in protecting information that could harm me if it got into the wrong hands. Why are my concerns somehow less important than the police officer's?

    As for the police stealing my SS#, I don't think they would either. However, I would prefer not to take any chances. Police are just like the rest of us, they are not infallible.
    No, a good officer would think that you were being a jack@ss and look deeper to see why you were being evasive. A good officer would take you to jail to make you post bond on your simple speeding ticket or whatever you did. A good officer would treat you well while he took you to jail. A good officer would not laugh at your tin foil hat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tony.o View Post
    I can get your social by looking up your drivers license. If your worried about identity theft, get LifeLock.
    +1 lifelock is a god send. I love it!!!!!!!!!
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    In CA, no Peace Officer would be asking for your SS# in the field, unless they were investigating an identity theft crime (I could be wrong - LMK if I am missing something here). We do not require it for citations. If you are arrested (charged with a crime), you will be asked for your SS# during the booking process. This is used in part to verify your identity and also to check for Local, State and Federal Wants/Warrants. You may certainly withhold the information if you choose - just as you may choose to refuse to sign your booking paperwork or property receipt. Doing so will cause a delay in your processing. Not because the jailer/cop/deputy is going to teach you a lesson, they have a job to do, and if you are a road bump, your paperwork goes to the bottom of the pile and they move on to other booking packets.

    Don't be surprised if you are charged with a "near-miss" warrant, when the info that could have exonerated you is missing because you withheld it by choice.

    You SS# is secure in the police world. We do not store it on line or in laptops that can be stolen. Everything is encrypted and the computer systems that hold this informations are (at least where I work) closed systems - so you'd have to hack them from the inside. I can't recall one case where someone has been a victim of ID theft based on a police booking packet or other report.

    The Social Security Administration looses thousands of SS#'s a year. They are the source of your number - and are vastly less secure about it than most retailers.

    You do have the right to remain silent. Use it if you must, but as with all choices, be prepared to deal with the delays & snafus this may cause. Unless you are truly guilty of something, then what have you got to loose? We'll get the information we want sooner or later, if not from you, then from an alternate source.
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    The only time I have used a SSN in the field was to help ID someone who wasnt showing up in the system. As to the original poster...... do you really think that a police officer who has access to every law enforcement database would not be able to look up your SSN. By refusing info all you are doing is causing more work........ and I am sure you are smart enough to realize that. It is a tool to help identify and separate people with similar names....... you withholding your SSN AFTER BEING LAWFULLY ARRESTED does not make sense other than you wishing to stir the pot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scratched13 View Post
    No, a good officer would think that you were being a jack@ss and look deeper to see why you were being evasive. A good officer would take you to jail to make you post bond on your simple speeding ticket or whatever you did. A good officer would treat you well while he took you to jail. A good officer would not laugh at your tin foil hat.
    He might think I'm a jack@***, and I might think the same of him. If he wanted to waste his time hauling me off to jail on a simple ticket for refusing to give information I am not required to give, then he is the jack@ss, and not a very good cop. And I think the courts would frown on a cop arresting on an otherwise ticketable offense (like speeding) solely because the suspect exerted his or her Constitutional rights. I mean are you serious? Exert your rights, go to jail?

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    [QUOTE=RedMan1;1119077]He might think I'm a jack@***, and I might think the same of him. If he wanted to waste his time hauling me off to jail on a simple ticket for refusing to give information I am not required to give, then he is the jack@ss, and not a very good cop. And I think the courts would frown on a cop arresting on an otherwise ticketable offense (like speeding) solely because the suspect exerted his or her Constitutional rights. I mean are you serious? Exert your rights, go to jail?[/QUOTE]


    Tell me Redman, what constitutional right is that. No exerting your rights is not arrestable, but if the Police cannot asertain 100% who you are you will go to jail.

    Now answer ChiTownDet post. You give your SSN to other places do you.

    Now you REDMAN get pulled over for a speeding ticket, you give your name, but refuse to give your SSN. The bad Policeman runs your name, and comes back REDMAN has a warrant... You claim is not me its not me....What DO YOU THINK COULD HAVE SOLVED THAT PROBLEM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedMan1 View Post
    Am I required to give my social Security number to police when they ask for it? I am under the impression that the only thing legally required is Name, Address and DOB.

    Also, if I am arrested, I know the jail will ask for SS#. Am I legally required to give it to them? What will be the consequences?
    You sound like you are planning on going to jail and you want to get your affairs in order. Atleast you realize you are a criminal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pujolsfan146 View Post
    You sound like you are planning on going to jail and you want to get your affairs in order. Atleast you realize you are a criminal.
    Mannnn...cold

    I know they had started a new thing for Honor Visits at a prison... on the form they asked visitors for their SS#.

    People made complaints and they stopped it. My worry was not so much the people who worked there, but where forms ended up, and if inmates would have access to the numbers...or whoever else. Trash is one of the biggest places that identity theft occurs.

    I was always told NOT to give out my SS# unless absolutely necessary. Again, knowing it was being written down on paper is a worry to me. I know its in computers everywhere already.

  25. #25
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    This is what I was told by an attorney. I was asking him about giving it to a private business, but he provided information regarding both private entities and government agencies, so this is the part about a government agency requesting it:

    The Privacy Act of 1974 (5 USC 552a) requires that any federal, state, or local government agency that requests your Social Security Number has to tell you four things:

    1. Whether disclosure of your Social Security Number is required or optional,
    2. What law authorizes them to ask for your Social Security Number,
    3. How your Social Security Number will be used if you give it to them, and
    4. The consequences of failure to provide an SSN.


    Perhaps someone can verify. I would think if you asked these questions nicely you'd get answers, although it's hard to phrase the 2nd one without sounding like you have an attitude! If someone said something like "Gosh I'm always very hesitant to give out my SS# anywhere, is this optional? Can I provide additional forms of ID instead?" you probably wouldn't seem uncooperative. If you said "I refuse to give that to you unless you tell me where it says I have to..." well, that's being uncooperative.

    I agree with what has been said that it helps verify your identity. Some have also stated some of the consequences of failure to provide an SSN. I know of a guy being processed who had a false ID and when asked for his SS# he just made up 9 random numbers. When they checked it, it was an actual SS number but it belonged to a young girl!
    Last edited by Nikk; 02-24-2008 at 06:13 PM.
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