Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    ERMDPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    882

    AK-47...What makes them illegal

    I simply thought that any AK-47 was illegal for a civilian to have... However I'm hearing from different people that they are ok to have as long as it's SEMI AUTO & not fully auto...

    Can any one clear this up for me?


    And no I don't plan on purchasing one if thats what you guys are thinking lol. I just don't want to give people the wrong information...I'm looking for an AR

  2. #2
    Sheepdog
    JTShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    13,599
    Quote Originally Posted by ERMDPD View Post
    I simply thought that any AK-47 was illegal for a civilian to have... However I'm hearing from different people that they are ok to have as long as it's SEMI AUTO & not fully auto...

    Can any one clear this up for me?


    And no I don't plan on purchasing one if thats what you guys are thinking lol. I just don't want to give people the wrong information...I'm looking for an AR
    Well, you're in Miami, so the police chief and others are TRYING to make them completely illegal.

    What makes them "illegal" are the ones that criminals buy off the street. Regardless of being semi or auto.
    “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

    "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

  3. #3
    Oh no, it's da Po-Po
    Blackdog F4i's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,821
    First off neither semi auto OR full auto AK47 are ILLEGAL to own. A civilian can own either one if they are willing to go through certain steps to comply with state and federal law.

    1. Barring and state bans, a Semi-Auto AK47 is treated the same as any other imported long gun as far as ownership is concerned. There are some import regulations that have to be adhered to regarding parts counts and origin. As long as those are met by the importer then once it gets to you, it's good to go. AFAIK there is no state ban on semi-auto AK's in Florida, so all you need to do is walk into your local gunshop and tell them what kind of AK you want.

    2. It is perfectly legal (federally) for a private citizen to own a FULLY AUTOMATIC AK-47 that was registered prior to 1986. To own one you simply have to find someone willing to sell theirs, pay them, then submit the paperwork to the BATFE-NFA Division with your $200 transfer tax. Then wait 45-60 days for your paperwork to come back and go pickup your AK.

    There are certain restrictions when owning NFA weapons (full-auto, silencers, SBR's, SBS's, Destructive Devices and AOW's). They can not leave your control except for repair or maintenance by a properly licensed gunsmith or surrender to a law enforcement agency. This means you can't loan them to a friend and you can leave them laying about in your house when you are not home (if anyone else has access to the interior of your home).

    These same rules apply for M16's or any other fully automatic weapon. There are ways that private individuals can own post-86 MG's but it involves GREAT expense and serious scruitiny from the BATFE (like random inspections of your premesis).
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

  4. #4
    Sheepdog
    JTShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    13,599
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
    AFAIK there is no state ban on semi-auto AK's in Florida, so all you need to do is walk into your local gunshop and tell them what kind of AK you want.
    Nope, no ban, however there is a big push coming from Miami to make them illegal due to their proliferation (from the black market) down there.
    “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

    "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    South Sioux City, NE
    Posts
    4,489

    Now that your mind is free and open

    Now that your mind has been opened a crack it only make sense, nothing is illegal, but there are different regulations one must comply with to have that something.

    Lots of people think dynamite is illegal, then they watch construction companies explode buildings on TV.

    Fireworks are illegal, then they goto a display on 4th of July or at DisneyLand.

    Guns are illegal, then they go watch a Hollywood movie that has guns in it.

    Nothing is illegal if you put the time and effort meeting the requirements of ownership.

    In florida if you are 18 you can walk into any gun shop and most likely if your background check is clear with NICS you can walk out with a semi automatic AK variation in 20minutes or so. Getting into the specifics of exact configuration of the AK variant would be a book the size of the bible. You could also buy on from a garage sale, or add in the newspaper or at a local gun show with a handshake and an exchange of funds.

    If you want to learn lots more about gun stuff, join and participate in a gun forum like http://www.ar15.com or http://www.subguns.com they will walk you through legalities etc.

  6. #6
    Oh no, it's da Po-Po
    Blackdog F4i's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,821
    Of course no firearm thread is complete without pics.....

    My AK:
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    ERMDPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    882
    Thanks for clearing that up guys... I was talking to some guy at a UPS Store and he asked me if I wanted a fully auto AK47, that "his boy" changed the springs in the gun making it fully auto, he wanted $200 for it....Lol no thanks


    I thought they were illegal since they have a program here that the Mayor started (gun bounty program), every one thinks if you know some one with an AK47 and report them you get $1,000 just like that lol.

    Thanks for the info guys and for the link to those other forums.

  8. #8
    Deputy
    eman2k5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    4,107
    Report his A** to someone.........Its people like him that make us legal owners suffer.


    That spring is a "hells fire spring" dont do it its a felony.


    You can in MI buy a Ak from a store but, they are a POS !
    My statements do not represent my agency.

  9. #9
    Deputy
    eman2k5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    4,107
    Get a bushmaster, money well spent.
    My statements do not represent my agency.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    ERMDPD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Posts
    882
    Thanks, thats what I had in mind (bushmaster or S&W).

  11. #11
    Head Honcho
    exdrip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,333
    never get a saigan or however you spell it
    "Friendly Fire, isn't"

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Gene L's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    1,910
    State laws vary. In some states, you can't hunt with one using the full-capacity magazines, because there is a limit on how many rounds a hunting gun can hold. So, get a five-rounder, and you're cool.

    A true AK 47 is illegal for civilians to own without a "Machinegun Permit." The problem is, "AK 47" is term that's widely misapplied to a whole field of weapons. Anything that looks vaugely like an AK is termed that, generally. Same with "assault rifle." And most are not AK 47s, and not Assault Rifles.

    AK 47s are selective fire assualt rifles. They were replaced by the AK 74, which was also fully automatic, but had a stamped rather than a milled reciever. They're illegal also unless you have the permit mentioned above.

    Semi-auto fire only rifles of any caliber are NOT assault rifles, as the selective fire ability is one thing that defines an assault rifle.

    AR 15s are semi-auto versions of the M 16, and are legal just about everywhere except California. A version of the AR is legal there, even, but it's clumsy and has a strange loading procedure and a ten round fixed magazine. Or so I've heard.

    But it's futile to argue these points with media and a lot of "AK 47" owners, as they already have their minds made up.
    Last edited by Gene L; 02-21-2008 at 04:55 PM.
    "Say hal-lo to my leetle frahnd!"

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    jwise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    3,976
    Quote Originally Posted by eman2k5 View Post
    That spring is a "hells fire spring" dont do it its a felony.
    The "Hellfire" trigger actuation device is NOT illegal. The ATF has ruled it is NOT a machinegun, as it does NOT manipulate the firearm to fire more than one time per pull of the trigger.

    It simply resets the trigger faster, and without the user needing to release pressure on the trigger. All it really does is enhance the ability that EVERY semi-auto firearm has, which is called "bump-firing."

    There are no "springs" you can change out to make an AK-47 actually fire "full--auto." You can make 'em SLAM FIRE, but that's COMPLETELY different, and EXTREMELY dangerous.
    J. Wise

    AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

    "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

    Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.


  14. #14
    Major League Infidel
    USMC_03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    96
    Quote Originally Posted by eman2k5 View Post


    You can in MI buy a Ak from a store but, they are a POS !
    Id like to hear your reasoning behind this one. You can take those things, shove mud in the chamber, load a mag full of mud, then slam the thing off a wall and it will still fire like a dream and it has great stopping power. The only cons I see are after about 250-300 yards its unaccurate, and its ugly. But honestly, in Law Enforcement when are you going to have to engage a target at that distance?
    The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!
    Eleanor Roosevelt, First Lady of the United States, 1945

    The American Marines have it [pride], and benefit from it. They are tough, cocky, sure of themselves and their buddies. They can fight and they know it.
    General Mark Clark, U.S. Army

  15. #15
    Oh no, it's da Po-Po
    Blackdog F4i's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,821
    Quote Originally Posted by eman2k5 View Post
    You can in MI buy a Ak from a store but, they are a POS !
    I guess it all depends on what you consider a POS.

    If you lay my $300 WASR-10 AK next to my $1300 RRA M4, then the uninformed may think it was a POS.

    If I take my WASR and 99% of the other battle rifles out there and drag them through a creek then tell you that you have the option of choosing one to stop Mongo from accosting your wife.....the WASR starts to look like a real nice option.

    AK's run like a raped ape. They aren't target rifles, and they are far from refined, but they are just the thing to hand to a muddy farmer to defend his village from the attacking hordes.

    Love them for what they are, don't TAPCOfack them into something they aren't.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    jwise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    3,976
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
    I guess it all depends on what you consider a POS.

    If you lay my $300 WASR-10 AK next to my $1300 RRA M4, then the uninformed may think it was a POS.

    If I take my WASR and 99% of the other battle rifles out there and drag them through a creek then tell you that you have the option of choosing one to stop Mongo from accosting your wife.....the WASR starts to look like a real nice option.

    AK's run like a raped ape. They aren't target rifles, and they are far from refined, but they are just the thing to hand to a muddy farmer to defend his village from the attacking hordes.

    Love them for what they are, don't TAPCOfack them into something they aren't.
    See, and I thought he just meant the WASR was a POS, not AKs in general.

    I've resolved to let more comments like this slide by. I felt like I had to speak up when someone was saying a Hellfire system was illegal, but I completely let Gene L slide on his comments, even though there was some inaccuracy in there.

    And I didn't even bite on this comment: "never get a saigan or however you spell it," when everyone who knows diddley knows Saiga builds one of the best out there, if not authentic. That's why some of the best AK buidlers/smiths out there use Saigas as their canvas when creating custom rifles.
    J. Wise

    AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

    "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

    Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.


  17. #17
    MPSoldier84
    Guest
    Like we used to say in the Army. The BG's with the POS hand-me-down AK's usually have more reliable weapons than we do.

  18. #18
    big holes
    Mstangfk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,869
    Quote Originally Posted by MPSoldier84 View Post
    Like we used to say in the Army. The BG's with the POS hand-me-down AK's usually have more reliable weapons than we do.
    true that, even tho i love the M-4

    in the book Steel My Soldiers Hearts by Col Dave Hackworth relates a story about being on scene when a bulldozer uncovers a badly decayed NVA complete with AK, Hackworth shook the dirt off it, kicked he bolt back and fired all 30 rounds....then turned around to his staff and told them "this is the weapon we should have"


    the latest AR amd M-16 family weapons are a million times better than the first gen M16A1 but the US hasn't had a robust combat rifle since the m-14 IMO
    In the end we're all just chalk lines on the concrete drawn only to be washed away, for the time that I've been given, I am what I am. I'd rather you hate me for everything I am, Than have you love me for being something that Im not

  19. #19
    Sheepdog
    JTShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    13,599
    The crap about AR and AK came about from Vietnam.

    I've never had an AR jam or malfunction on me with the exception being when using blanks.

    I've actually had an AR drag through the sand, get covered in mud (rains mud in Iraq) and get covered in snow for 2 days, and everytime it's gone bang without a problem....
    “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

    "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

  20. #20
    big holes
    Mstangfk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    2,869
    Quote Originally Posted by justhomp View Post
    The crap about AR and AK came about from Vietnam.

    I've never had an AR jam or malfunction on me with the exception being when using blanks.

    I've actually had an AR drag through the sand, get covered in mud (rains mud in Iraq) and get covered in snow for 2 days, and everytime it's gone bang without a problem....


    the Ak is still a simpler more robust rifle..


    the latest gen AR/M-4 is what happens to a fairly mediocre design after about 40 years of improvements and developments.


    Eugene Stoner had a better design than he is given credit for, but it was rushed into production, all the things people take for granted now in a M-whatever are due to flaws in the design that had to be worked out.

    the forward assist, better gas tubes, larger extractor, chrome barrel, better ammo etc..all thanks to design flaws found in Vietnam, which unfortunately cost lives.
    In the end we're all just chalk lines on the concrete drawn only to be washed away, for the time that I've been given, I am what I am. I'd rather you hate me for everything I am, Than have you love me for being something that Im not

  21. #21
    Sheepdog
    JTShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    13,599
    The only issue I have with the M4/M16 is the issued ammo in the US military. The round was designed by marksmen and is great at defeating body armor.

    Not so great at stopping people that are high on some sort of opium...
    “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

    "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

  22. #22
    Oh no, it's da Po-Po
    Blackdog F4i's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,821
    I have noticed with amazing accuracy that most people that bitch about the AR/M16/M4 either:

    a: Never carried one.

    or

    b: Never had to bet their life on one.

    I have done both, and given the choice of a M4 or AK I would pick the M4 every day and twice on Sunday, However that dosent mean the AK is crap.

    The M4 goes to work with me, the AK goes to play!

    And just because this thread needs more "evil" weapons porn:

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

  23. #23
    Sheepdog
    JTShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    13,599
    I know I said 8 hours, changed my mind.

    Sorry folks.

    There Jwise, you got to see them again
    Last edited by JTShooter; 02-23-2008 at 02:54 AM.
    “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

    "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    jwise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    College Station, Texas
    Posts
    3,976
    I wanna play, too!!

    J. Wise

    AR-15 - AK-47 - NFA Trusts - My Pick - Carry Guns - 1911s

    "Some say you can tell how the world stands by the prices of AK-47s...." Chit2001

    Any comments contained herein regarding the legality of firearms, or the application of law, are strictly applicable to Texas. If you live in CA, NY, IL, MA, D.C., etc., the above comments will probably shock you, and should be read for educational purposes only. Most likely nothing I write will apply to you.


  25. #25
    Sheepdog
    JTShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    13,599
    ^ Always someone at the party..

    “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

    "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Click here to log in or register