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  1. #1
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    Firefighter Arrested, Officer Fined for Arrest

    Apparently the officer arrested a fire captain because he failed to move the truck. IMO, I think the truck being where it is at made it safe for all emergency personell to work. Don't police consider firefighters "brothers" too??? The officer has been fined 18k.


    http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stori....bd01f42f.html


    A video is included with the link.

  2. #2
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    That officer acted like an idiot.
    ...hunter of the shadows is rising...

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    I saw that. Thought that was um......crazy. IMO the firefighter was right. Wanna use a 6 ton vehicle to make sure "we" dont get hit? Knock yourself out, the traffic will be there regardless because of the rubber neckers...

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    Not knowing what was said, I can't say he acted like a moron ...... but ARRESTING a firefighter - STUPIDITY.

    Now, I will say that sometimes firefighters don't realize that by blocking more lanes of interstate they can ACTUALLY CAUSE other accidents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CityCopDC View Post
    I saw that. Thought that was um......crazy. IMO the firefighter was right. Wanna use a 6 ton vehicle to make sure "we" dont get hit? Knock yourself out, the traffic will be there regardless because of the rubber neckers...
    exactly... and since when did police care about backing up traffic? It is all about getting the job done correctly, am I wrong?


    I wonder if fellow officers gave this guy a strange look for taking a firefighter to booking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mp1161 View Post
    exactly... and since when did police care about backing up traffic? It is all about getting the job done correctly, am I wrong?


    I wonder if fellow officers gave this guy a strange look for taking a firefighter to booking.
    Mp1161 if I may monday morning quarterback just this one time? Its no way in hell I would have locked that firefighter up. To me, that officer took that to personal, as if it was HIS highway that was backed up. I have been on the freeway/highway on 10-50's (accidents for us, officer in trouble for montgomerey county) with traffic zooming by at 70+ mph. Hmmmm...do I want a police car or a 6 ton firetruck blocking the lane for me?

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    What are the details?

    There seems to be a need for someone to be in charge of the scene.

    Whether thats the Police or the fire dept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ford123 View Post
    What are the details?

    There seems to be a need for someone to be in charge of the scene.

    Whether thats the Police or the fire dept.
    I would "assume" because injuries exist, the fd has anything related to the patients, the pd the scene as a whole.
    Provide first aid to the injured before anything else.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by t1r4 View Post
    I bet that officer was the typical o.com "I see you have no experience, well i do LOL" troll.
    Rofl ... you could see the smirk
    WadsonF 10-4's the above statement.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ford123 View Post
    What are the details?

    There seems to be a need for someone to be in charge of the scene.

    Whether thats the Police or the fire dept.
    ^^^^ QFT

    I don't want to start a storm but I have a lot experience with these types of situtaions.

    Our organization's solution is to sponsor Incident Command classes that focus on a Unified Command Structure.

    Of course there are still problems when the fire commander disagrees with the police commander.

    If you're not used to working on a limited access roadway every hour of every day you may not be as aware about how quickly traffic can backlog and cause major problems.

    I can honestly say two of the worst & memorable accident scenes I've ever worked on occurred in a backlog situation.

    Scene saftey is of paramount importance but logistical considerations must be taken into account.

    If you look at the video the patient was in a vehicle on the shoulder of the road. A police vehicle blocked the right lane and when the fire engine pulled up he blocked the 2nd lane from the right.

    Obviously I wasn't there but a better option may have been to park the fire engine angled BEHIND the Police cruiser blocking both the shoulder and right lane.

    By just parking where he did it's obvious the fire engine just stopped in the middle of a lane. There are no channelling devices behind the fire engine warning motorists to move left.

    At least if the engine was placed as I suggested it would provide a visual clue for drivers approaching the scene plus provide a 40,000# protection barrier behind the emergency workers.

    IMHO that would have provided superior scene safety and allowed for an additional travel lane to ease congestion and the chance of back-log accidents.
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  11. #11
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    I am going to say the Officer's wrong based on one thing from the video: The fact that it only took him about 20 seconds to make the decision to arrest a Fire Captain. At the point in which he arrested the Capt, I doubt they know the full extent of the driver's injuries, therefore they still need the extra lane as a buffer zone in case the have to backboard the driver.

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    I am no police officer, but I have been put under the impression that a public safety vehicle on official business is never improperly parked.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CityCopDC View Post
    on 10-50's (accidents for us, officer in trouble for montgomerey county)
    Thanks for clarifying!

    (BTW, VA just got rid of 10-codes because of the variation between jurisdictions/departments. They went to a common 'plain-English' system to facilitate MARS/inter-operability)
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    There is probably a history between the agencies in this circumstance, and possibly even between the FF and LEO. In TN, normally the FD who has established IC is in charge, particularly during fire and/or vehicle rescue operations & patient care/transport.

    From a personal standpoint, and I can say this from being on both sides of the wall as a LEO and FF/EMT-IV, there have been many times on accident scenes (where I was from) that the last thing law enforcement would do is direct traffic. It came down to doing it ourselves by blocking lanes with apparatus to keep the moron rubber-neckers off of us. The main thing LEO's were busy doing is filling out the traffic crash report on scene. I am definitely not implying this as a blanket statement, but it happens.
    I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

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    This officer was an idiot. But did he book the Fire captain? Looked to me like he let him go. But I am not sure.

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    Y'all are aware of the infamous... er, ah... "friction" between NYPD and FDNY right?

    Maybe someone from Nueva York can provide some insight.

    However, I have heard tell of actual brawls--on duty, in public, on calls between the two.
    The U.S. Army AIRBORNE theory of Life, The Universe and Everything:

    -When in doubt; COUNTER-ATTACK!
    -When certain; STRIKE/HOLD!

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.C. Hughes View Post
    Y'all are aware of the infamous... er, ah... "friction" between NYPD and FDNY right?
    Maybe someone from Nueva York can provide some insight.

    However, I have heard tell of actual brawls--on duty, in public, on calls between the two.
    Really? I was never aware of any problems between the 2.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CityCopDC View Post
    Really? I was never aware of any problems between the 2.
    There are. I don't personally know how much is apocryphal/urban-legend and/or talkin' smack down-the-local (at the bar).
    The U.S. Army AIRBORNE theory of Life, The Universe and Everything:

    -When in doubt; COUNTER-ATTACK!
    -When certain; STRIKE/HOLD!

  19. #19
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    I wasn't there, but - Wow! Probably better to let it slide at the scene and meet up at the station house later and form a plan on how to respond the next time?? It's like arresting or citing the conductor of a train for blocking an intersection for too long... yes you can do it, but isn't there a better way? Contact the command staff and suggest some inter-agency training - make a complaint to the command staff if it is a pervasive problem? Climb in the darn rig and move it yourself? But to arrest the Fire Captain? Oh good, NOW you're gonna get the cooperation you need

    We get along GREAT with our firefighters - on a hot day I can pop by the station house and cool off as I write paper. I'm a motor and sometimes I'll follow the rigs out on calls and tag folks for failing to yield (big pet peeve for the firefighters). I post copies of the cites on the bulletin board at the station house, just so they know I'm helping out the cause. 10 cites and I get invited to chow (just kidding, for those of you that take offense to the "chow quota" tickets)

    We had a guy way back when that just didn't get it. He would (and did!) write his own mom a cite. What a sad creature! Even after filling his locker with manure, putting his car up on jack-stands with the wheels in the back seat, etc (hey, this was 20 years ago - we could do this back then!), he just wasn't capable of using discretion. Talk to him until you were blue in the face - just didn't get it. He left the job and is a CPA now, making more money and happy in his world where numbers are what they are, as there is no grey in math (until tax time, of course )

    But like I said, I wasn't there....
    LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO DRINK CHEAP BEER!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy5746 View Post
    LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO DRINK CHEAP BEER!
    Unless, you're a "starving"-artist
    The U.S. Army AIRBORNE theory of Life, The Universe and Everything:

    -When in doubt; COUNTER-ATTACK!
    -When certain; STRIKE/HOLD!

  21. #21
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    police officers and firefighters are two different groups. Even though they do share a similar badge they are not "brothers". The most common myth is that firefighters and police officers hate each other or are jealous of each other. I mean who wouldn't be jealous of a firefighter. He rides in a giant truck, has that axe/hose/fire gear, lives in the firehouse, no one hates firefighters, and get free food. (wait that doesn't sound right...)

  22. #22
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    Jury awards $17,500 to fireman arrested at scene of accident
    By Robert Patrick
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
    02/14/2008

    Hazelwood — Federal court jurors awarded $17,500 on Wednesday to a fire captain arrested by a Hazelwood police officer in a dispute over where a firetruck was parked during a 2003 car crash rescue.

    Juror Betsy Vennemann said after the verdict, "We wanted to make a statement that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated."

    Capt. David Wilson won $7,500 in compensatory damages and $10,000 in punitive damages. Jurors, including a nun, said they went easy on the defendant, Officer Todd Greeves, because he has a family and they weren't sure who would pay the bill.
    Jurors hear dispute over arrest of firefighter at scene

    Wilson testified that the Robertson Fire Protection District truck was parked in a way to protect rescuers working to free a victim from wreckage along Interstate 270 at McDonnell Boulevard. Advertisement

    Greeves ordered that the truck be moved to accommodate passing traffic and arrested Wilson for ignoring him. Wilson was released after 23 minutes and never charged. He sued, claiming civil rights violations that opened him to anxiety and humiliation.

    Greeves told the court the truck was creating a hazard and not adding to safety at the scene.

    Jurors interviewed after the verdict said their feeling about Greeves was reinforced during the punitive phase of the trial, when they heard there had been other complaints about him. An internal affairs investigation determined that Greeves used excessive force in a 2002 arrest, court documents show, and was the subject of several other complaints.

    Before Wednesday's deliberations, U.S. Magistrate Judge Mary Ann Medler had already ruled that Greeves had no probable cause to arrest Wilson, who she said had state law on his side. She also dismissed the city of Hazelwood as a defendant.

    "The whole police and fire communities have been watching this case," said Bevis Schock, one of Wilson's lawyers. "Everybody wanted to know who controls the fire scene."

    Greeves' lawyer, Peter Dunne, said he was disappointed in the verdict and the discussion of the other complaints against Greeves. Dunne also said it was unfair to suggest that Greeves did not care about the firefighters' safety.

    Dunne said that the city's insurance would not pay for the costs and that the issue is "complicated." Schock said he thinks the insurance probably would pay the compensatory damages, and possibly the punitive. Also at issue is payment of unspecified lawyers' fees.

    Spokespersons for the fire district and Hazelwood police could not be reached for comment Wednesday.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mp1161 View Post
    exactly... and since when did police care about backing up traffic? It is all about getting the job done correctly, am I wrong?


    I wonder if fellow officers gave this guy a strange look for taking a firefighter to booking.
    Interesting side story........... I am a motor and have a take home bike. I drive through many jurisdictions on my way home with a lot of freeway miles. Many times I have been the first person on scene of rollover collisions, etc. I stop, radio for the appropriate agency and then help on scene making sure people arent hurt or dont get hurt until the agency arrives. A couple of months back I came across a multiple car collision on the opposite direction lanes blocking 2 lanes of traffic and the drivers were still sitting inside their car. I radioed for CHP, parked my baike well out of traffic in the center emergency lane, hopped the center divide and checked on the welfare of the occupants of the cars. Their airbags had gone off and they were still inside breathing the airbag "dust" so after making sure they werent injured I had them exit their cars and move to the center median. There was another collision about a half mile down the freeway and I could see a patrol cars lights on parked there. I assisted by directing traffic because people were still trying to drive between the crushed cars. A CHP contracted tow truck arrived and since it was a non injury accident started clearing the cars. I stayed because the drivers of the cars were still in the median and I was making sure the tow truck drivers didnt get run over from behind. With 2 lanes of traffic still blocked, the drivers standing in the center median and the tow truck drivers actively working in the freeway the CHP dispatcher called me telling me that the CHP officer working the other collision down the freeway saw the traffic was backing up in the opposite direction and wanted me to leave the scene because evidentyl my parked motorcycle was causing traffic to back up Evidently the fact that everybody was rubbernecking at the collision I was helpiing with totally escaped him and the fact that I was doing this on MY OWN TIME as I could have just driven right by. Before anyone thinks that I am bashing CHP...I am not. I deal with collisions on the freeway all the time and 99.9% of the CHP officers are thankfull for the help and so are the people involved in the collision, but every once in a while you get that one officer who thinks that the world revolves around keeping the traffic flowing.....

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    Operator13 got it right. There is no point in trying to save 1 accident victim if you cause more victims in the process. After already parking improperly, the fire captain should have thought things through and moved the truck. It would've taken 1 minute, and he was not the only firefighter at the scene.

    However I do not believe the arrest accomplished anything other than wasting everyone's time and raising blood pressure.

    I also do not believe that the arrest is worth $17500. That's a lot of money, cops are not freakin' millionaires. "Went Easy?" BS.

  25. #25
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    Quote from article:

    "Jurors interviewed after the verdict said their feeling about Greeves was reinforced during the punitive phase of the trial, when they heard there had been other complaints about him. An internal affairs investigation determined that Greeves used excessive force in a 2002 arrest, court documents show, and was the subject of several other complaints."


    This is one of the things I kinda touched on in that Baltimore Cop thread. If your a police officer...why go out of your way to antagonize people? There's nothing wrong with being assertive but you can be assertive without being rude or a *****. It seems like a lot of people seem to lack people skills and thus aren't able or willing to deal with people as opposed to just trying to constantly bully them and escalating matters in one way or another...

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