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  1. #1
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    Remington 770 for sniper rifle

    I was thinking about buying a remington 770 and using that as my sniper rifle. I don't know too much about rifles but am learning. my main goal to to be a sniper with the Detroit SRT. can anyone give me some info on if this would be a good rifle. I don't have a lot of money so any info would help
    "Mess with the bull, you get the horns."

  2. #2
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    im no expert but in my opinion a tac team isnt gonna be taking to many shots over about 300m, so i think a M-14 (M-21) would be a better choice...


    or, one of the 7.62 chambered AR variants...


    so you have to buy your own rifle???

    thats a bit odd i would think.
    In the end we're all just chalk lines on the concrete drawn only to be washed away, for the time that I've been given, I am what I am. I'd rather you hate me for everything I am, Than have you love me for being something that Im not

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    In the end we're all just chalk lines on the concrete drawn only to be washed away, for the time that I've been given, I am what I am. I'd rather you hate me for everything I am, Than have you love me for being something that Im not

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    you don't have to buy your own, but I would think with all the time and training I would have with my own rifle I would know every nook and crany of the rifle
    "Mess with the bull, you get the horns."

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    A police shot at 300 meters is so rare as to be statistically insignificant.

    Most are 75 meters or less. An M 1A isn't the rifle for sniping, which is why the services went to bolt guns.

    The Rem 700 makes a Police Sniper model, and it's pretty good. We've got one in .223.
    "Say hal-lo to my leetle frahnd!"

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    I would not recommend the 770. At the very least, get the 700 sps tactical or varmint model. As noted, the 700 Police Sniper is even better. The Model 700 VLS is another excellent, but pricey rifle. Another VERY good option is the Savage, take a look at their predator or the 10FP. I would recommend beginning with the .223, the ammo is much cheaper, you can make VERY long shots and you will be able to concentrate on breathing, trigger control, sight picture follow through etc...

    The M21 is an excellent choice for a military sniper weapon, but it is a highly modified M14/M1A and is VERY pricey. The Marine Corps has always insisted on bolt guns, the Army used the M21 to VERY good effect in Vietnam, making many kills out to 1000 yards with a simple 3-9 power scope. It is STILL in use, as a matter of fact, after all of these years, the Marine Corps has finally seen the light and started to issue M21's as designated marksman rifles. The Army still issues them, Naval Special Warfare still uses them.
    They are NOT capable of the type of accuracy required for police marksman.
    A high quality AR platform, on the other hand, is. They are very capable of sub-MOA shooting. The Navy has been using the MK 11 for several years, it is now being issued to Army units as the M110.
    Any good quality varmint grade rifle, whether bolt action or AR will serve you well as a practice/training rifle.

  7. #7
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    Rem. 700 chambered in .308. Most common.

  8. #8
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    Love the ballistics of the 300WSM. That's my next dream build in the Remington 700 config. .338 Lapua shows promise too but still in the "wildcat" stage.....
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    If you just want to buy a gun to practice up for a future position as a sniper, i would suggest buying a used rifle similar to what your dept issues ie: .308 bolt action with heavy barrel. get used to the mechanics of it's function, weight, and get some trigger time. it's suprising that people can shoot well but cant load & function a bolt gun properly - i never thought possible a catasrophic jam with a bolt gun, but new shooters can really suprise you sometimes... it just takes practice and a methodical mind to do well. I wouldnt worry about a true tactical rifle (unless youve got money to burn) they run 3000 -5000 dollars. let your dept buy that,,,,

  10. #10
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    Check out the Remington 700 SPS Tactical, or the 700P short tactical barrels and they come in .223 or .308 definately sufficient for the Police Sniper rifle. The SPS Tactical will be around 475 and you can get a nice scope for 500 or 600 dolars. Unless your going to Iraq and need to make a 1200 meter shot these rifles would be great.

  11. #11
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    Ok,

    ANY Reliable rifle capable of delivering a projectile with 1 MOA accuracy can be employed as a "sniper" rifle. Is it ideal? No.

    ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS evaluate your mission before selecting equipment.

    1. Police Sniper Engagements average 70 yards (IIRC this is from the FBI UCR Statistics). You would be hard pressed to justify a 300 yard shot, much less actually set one up in an urban enviroment without worrying about a civilian wandering into your bullets path.

    2. Police Snipers routinely engage ONLY one target. Sometimes two or three, but I don't think I have ever read of a situation where a Police Sniper engaged more than 5 at a time (internal magazine capacity for most tactical bolt rifles is 5 rounds in .308).

    3. RELIABILITY is key. If it isn't reliable it can't be used.

    In Urban Sniping (which is what LE Sniping really is), a .308 Bolt Action is king. It is utterly reliable and amazingly accurate. In the .308 Bolt Action the Remington 700 is king. You only have to look at the Army and Marine Corps to see that. Both use the 700 in .308 (Army uses the Long Action, Marine Corps uses a Short Action). You can in fact buy almost the exact same system the Army used direct from Remington as the M24 SWS. It's on their LE Products page.

    Yes, you can use an accurized AR-15 or AR-10 as a LE Sniper System, but why?

    From all I have been able to gather the .308 is the superior round for close and intermediate range Sniping. The selection of ammo allows you to choose something like 110gr TAP for general purpose and switch to Bonded Core ammo for glass shots or barrier penetration.

    Maintenance and training are also easier with the M700 rifles. Take an afternoon of snapping in (dry-fire). A Sniper can accomplish this on his own with the bolt gun, and execute everything exactly as he would with live fire with the exception of recoil. With a gas-gun you have to either have someone cycle the weapon (shoestring method) or have the sniper break position and cycle the action himself to reset the trigger. This makes dry-firing laborious and not the meditaion it is with a bolt-action.

    It comes down to the details.

    If you are in a "target rich" enviroment where you may have to engage multiple hostiles as quickly as possible, then the semi-auto's advantages outweigh the disadvantages. If you are simply looking for the one precision shot to end a situation, then the bolt-gun reigns supreme at all ranges.

    To answer your question in short.

    NO, there is NO reason to buy a 770. Buy a 700 or look to some other manufacturer (Savage, Sako, Winchester, etc.). There is a reason that Remington does not offer the 770 in their Law Enforcement and Military catalog. It is not suited as a tactical rifle.

    On a tight budget for someone who dosent know much about bolt-guns, buy a Remington 700P. It's a .308 Heavy Barrel in a H&S Precision stock. It's designed as a police sniper rifle and is pretty much the LE Standard. Top it with the best glass you can afford and don't cheap out on the rings and bases. Have a smith adjust the trigger to 3.5lbs with no creep and spend a TON of time dry-firing to get intimate with the trigger. Then learn your ballistics and your cold/clean bore shot (since THAT is the shot a sniper uses) and be a human wind gauge.
    Last edited by Blackdog F4i; 02-06-2008 at 01:19 PM.
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  12. #12
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    We should have a get together of serious O.com users and have you teach a class (or two) on "long gunning".
    “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

    "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

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    I currently own a Remington 700 VLS in .308 that I am willing to sell or trade. It is a true m.o.a. shooter. A gun smith in Tomah bedded the receiver, floated the barrel, and dropped the trigger down to 2lbs. He also loaded some rounds for me. He got it to shoot ½” out of a lead sled, and I could get ¾” off of sand bags with the hand loads. With factory loads I would get 1” groups from Winchester ballistic silver-tips.

    If you have any interest, send me a message. As far as trades go, I am looking for a pistol for the academy (glock) or a hunting rifle in either a long action or magnum caliber.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by justhomp View Post
    We should have a get together of serious O.com users and have you teach a class (or two) on "long gunning".
    Unfortunately I have to re-learn a bunch of stuff. I have forgotten many of the finer skills like reading wind. Luckily all the fundamentals are intact, and all the field skills never left.
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    I don't know your budget, but I went with a Remington 700 LTR in .308. It is the little brother of the 700P. I got it at a Police Supply store for $750. It retails for something like $900.

    If this is too steep, get the SPS Tactical version. When funds allow, you can upgrade the stock. It comes in a cheaper Hogue stock that is fine, but not great. The 700P and LTR come with HS Precision stocks, which are very stiff and free float the barrel.

    The glass is what you will either spend most of your money on, or what you will cheat your rifle with. The rule of thumb, is that you should spend equal amounts on the rifle and the glass. However, if you are looking for a good scope at a great price, I'd pick up a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14X with Mil-Dot reticle and side focus adjustment. It goes for just under $300, and is a BARGAIN! Great scope...

    My LTR put seven rounds of 168gr Winchester Ballistic Silvertips inside 3/4" at 100yds. This was over a single field bag, not sand bags.

    "Impressive" is an understatement... I was amazed.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
    Unfortunately I have to re-learn a bunch of stuff. I have forgotten many of the finer skills like reading wind. Luckily all the fundamentals are intact, and all the field skills never left.
    Well, we'd come to you, and Indiana is cold, so we wouldn't get up there until the summer... so you have plenty of time

    Hey, if Mark Wahlberg can do it....
    “The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed."

    "You go for a man hard enough and fast enough, he don't have time to think about how many's with him; he thinks about himself, and how he might get clear of that wrath that's about to set down on him."

  17. #17
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    As already mentioned find out what your shooters use and use a similar system. Bolt guns in a .308 are the king in LE and is the norm. Observers usually pack a gas gun with a detachable magazine and some type of optic. Primary shooter is generally a bolt gun.

    We have an out of the box 700 and a a couple of 40X's. Both are great out of the box shooters. Also to reiterate, optics and mounts are critical. You get about what you pay for here. .308 is the norm and the best factory load is Federal Gold Match Sierra Matchking 168gr BTHP's. We use the Black Hills 180gr AccuBond Noslers for our barrier rounds.

    Our pride and joys are our Tango 51's.
    This is my bad boy. Of course this gun is waaaaaaay out of the price range. Good thing it was paid for off the departments dime.


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  18. #18
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    Real nice stick! Is that a McMillan A1-3 on it?

    Glad you guys are progressive enough to go suppressed.

    For the rest of you..... we will have to see how things go this year with the Instructor Schools I am trying to attend. If I get my instructor rating, I may be interested in setting something up and using you all as Guinea Pigs.
    Last edited by Blackdog F4i; 02-06-2008 at 09:23 PM.
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  19. #19
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    The guy who builds these uses a variation off of the McMillian Sako Varminter because of the lack of cheeck comb for ambidextrous shooters and the fact most guys like to use their own cheek rest similar to mine. He takes the stocks and they get a custom texturing and epoxy paint jobs, but the cammo job is my own. Our Tango's were produced prior to the A1-3's and we are now finding out that the reason for the A1-3's development as we research night capability options.

    As far as instructor schools go, I am waiting for the NTOA school in November. Of all the dumb luck it happens to be in Vegas.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
    Ok,

    (internal magazine capacity for most tactical bolt rifles is 5 rounds in .308).

    In Urban Sniping (which is what LE Sniping really is), a .308 Bolt Action is king. It is utterly reliable and amazingly accurate. In the .308 Bolt Action the Remington 700 is king. You only have to look at the Army and Marine Corps to see that. Both use the 700 in .308 (Army uses the Long Action, Marine Corps uses a Short Action).

    From all I have been able to gather the .308 is the superior round for close and intermediate range Sniping.
    Maintenance and training are also easier with the M700 rifles.

    NO, there is NO reason to buy a 770. Buy a 700 or look to some other manufacturer (Savage, Sako, Winchester, etc.). There is a reason that Remington does not offer the 770 in their Law Enforcement and Military catalog. It is not suited as a tactical rifle.

    On a tight budget for someone who dosent know much about bolt-guns, buy a Remington 700P. It's a .308 Heavy Barrel in a H&S Precision stock. It's designed as a police sniper rifle and is pretty much the LE Standard. Top it with the best glass you can afford and don't cheap out on the rings and bases. Have a smith adjust the trigger to 3.5lbs with no creep and spend a TON of time dry-firing to get intimate with the trigger. Then learn your ballistics and your cold/clean bore shot (since THAT is the shot a sniper uses) and be a human wind gauge.
    Thanks for reiterating my statement in a more, detailed form. LOL.

    Surf, any vids of that thing firing? Does it really get less accurate the hotter the silencer gets? Post a link if you have a vid of it. Thx.
    Last edited by BPD_126; 02-07-2008 at 04:26 AM.

  21. #21
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    Good info by blackdog, ive been gone for a while, but glad to see good posts with lots of good information DOnt know how many sniper basic classes I have taught only to hear "I read it on the internet"

    Rifle: You can find a Rem 700 ltr used on gunbroker or a pawn shop for around $650, I have taught classes where an ltr is shooting half moa right out of the box. Another reason to go with the rem 700 is that its the chevy 350 of the rifle world, parts are easy to find and it is a cost effective rifle to repair and work with. After you have learned to shoot the rifle to best that the rifle can perform you can have a smith true the action and bed the stock not very expensive upgrades either but well worth it. These two improvements will give you a 1/4 moa rifle if done by a good smith and you do your part.

    Glass: Someone else stated dont cheat your self on the optics. Leupold Mark 4 is a great way to go, the mark 4 3.5x10x40 TMR is an awsome all around scope. DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT waste money on substandard glass, you are only going to end up replacing it and then that is money down the drain, save up untill you have enough for a leupold. I keep a spare leupold in my gear bag for students that come out and find out that a $300 scope wont hold zero or be able to track after being put through a day of hard use. There are a lot of other scopes out there and people will try to tell you that they are just as good, nod your head and just keep on rolling. Are there better scopes out there? Yes there are, US Optics, schmidt and binder, nightforce, but they are a lot more expensive and the best bang for the buck is leupold hands down bar none.Are there cheaper scopes that are just as good..... NO NO NO NO and NO. Along with glass comes rings, here is where a lot of people realy shoot themselves in the foot, dont get squared away with a good stick and glass and then go to walmart and buy a $10 set of rings. TPS,Leupold, badger ord, nightforce,USO all make awesome rings.

    *******Learn how to use mill dots and moa !!!!! That will put you way ahead of the power curve. It is not there to look cool or show how tactical you are. Its the best tool ever invented for a rifle. Sadly its the most neglected aspect in LE rifle shooting. Its something you can learn by reading about and as long as you know your high school math and a $20 calculator you can ace it.
    Now that you have your rifle set up and before you put a single round down range, get with one of the sniper instructors and have him work with you on body position, TRIGGER CONTROL and bolt manipulation. Those three things are the fundamintals of rifle shooting, you can do them at home on your floor and will do you a million times more good than throwing sloppy rounds down range. Remember dry practice, dry practice, dry practice, trigger press, trigger press, trigger press

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BPD_126 View Post
    Thanks for reiterating my statement in a more, detailed form. LOL.

    Surf, any vids of that thing firing? Does it really get less accurate the hotter the silencer gets? Post a link if you have a vid of it. Thx.
    Nope, no vids of it. I guess I could take some though. The sound equates to about that of an unsuppressed .22lr. The Tango's come with a 1/4 MOA guarantee and they easily accomplish this. Yep that isn't a misprint, 1/4 MOA guarantee. I have noted little variation from heat out of any norm. At 100yds this is negligable at best.

    I have also noted little difference in accuracy with or without the suppressor up to around 250yds. Once you get to longer ranges the dope definitely takes a change much more quickly. The only issue with the suppressor in regards to accuracy is if it happens to not be tightened down. You don't need to wrench on it as it is only hand tight but if it is lose, obviously there are issues. I have yet to have the suppressor come lose on its own. Perhaps a team mate might losen it when we have money on a cold bore shot, but that was my one time error for not keeping a closer eye out. That won't happen again.

    As far as vids go, here is one. Not quite the tango, but fun none the less. I'll see what I can do about the tango next time I am out.
    http://s3.photobucket.com/player.swf...fs=1&os=1&ap=1
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  23. #23
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    Our rifles are suppressed and we only run them with cans on. At 1000 yards we are only running 37 3/4 moa and that is out of an 18 inch barrel.

    p.s. cold bore deviation is a myth....... the real problem is cold shooter

  24. #24
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    Agree in strong terms about the glass. I see too many rifles that are over-powered, scope-wise, and under-glassed, quality wise.

    Anything over 10X is going to give you problems, and these problems are magnified (heheh) in the city, where mirage is so much worse. Of course, you can always crank down the power, but I think high-power scopes are not as bright as 10X and below. A pedestrian 3-9 of a good quality is a good scope for police work, but not for Army sniper work, which involves longer ranges....much longer. As has been stated in this thread, the typical LE sniper range is less than 100 yards, as well it should.

    Blackhawk mentions mil-dots and reading wind, and that's true beyond typical police ranges. It's essential in competition rifles, in fact. But it is less important when you're shooting at 75 yards.

    The diopter size at the highest power you intend to use is important. That's the dot you see when you hold a scope away from you and look through it, and the larger the diopter, the more light it lets in. A really good size is 5mm, which is about all they eye can handle. Most scopes won't do that at 10X, however, unless you get into some big bucks. And a really pizz-poor scope will be about 2mm, way too small. For example, I had a cheap Chinese made spotting scope that went up to something like 60X. But it was useless, dim and I could actually see bullet holes better at 100 yards with my Svaroski 12X scope, which was brilliant. (But more expensive than a similar Leupold.)

    I went to the USAMTU "Counter Sniper Instructor Course" back in the 80s, before it became politically incorrect for the Army to train police snipers. (Or "Counter Sniper Instructors.") We used the M 21, which was adequate for full size military situations out to 900 yards, (not meters, for some range-related reason) but it's not the gun for a police sniper.

    We have two dedicated sniper rifles, one a Remington Police in .223, the other a Savage 300 WM we confiscated. It's very accurate, so accurate in fact I bought one myself, had a new stock and a JB muzzle brake installed on it before I even shot it. Both are adequate accuracy-wise, but 300 WM is a little too much gun for any police application I can think of. Both are capable of sub-MOA groups. My personal Savage is about 1/2 MOA, all day long. That's with reloads, using Berger long-orgive bullets. It has an Accu-trigger, and I highly recommend Savage as a precision rifle...IF you change the factory stock, which is nothing short of sorry.

    If I had to go with ONE round, it would probably be the .308 (even though we don't have one.) It's an inherently accurate round and very good. It may be a bit much if you use it in a crowded city where pass-through is a problem.

    The FBI has all kinds of stats for police snipers.

    My "varmint" AR is capable of good shooting and would probably do the job, but a bolt gun is a better choice.

    The only "Super Accurate" rifle I have is a Ruger 77T in 22 PPC. Not a sniper rifle, since you can't buy ammo for it, but I've shot a 25 round group into less than 1/2 MOA, just to fire-form the brass.

    I put a Hogue stock on it, since it had an aluminum bedding block in it. I don't think it made it shoot much better over the laminated wood, but I dislike laminated wood a lot.

    A starting-to-be good stock will cost anywhere from 3 to 5 hundred bucks. That's a "tactical" stock as opposed to a Bench Rest stock, which have a different configuration.

    The final thing I'll say is I'm a firm believer in BR qualitiy bullets at short ranges, and that means flat-based. They will provably give better performance AT 100 YARDS OR LESS than boat-tailed. I get mine from a BR shooter who makes his own for competition, up in NC. Excellent bullets.

    They settle down quicker than a boat-tailed bullet. A boat tailed bullet comes into its own down-range, and because of its design will remain super-sonic for a much longer range. Once a bullet goes subsonic, it starts to yaw a bit. The Sound Barrier is a barrier both ways.

    Which is why .22 Match ammo is subsonic. Start High Velocity .22 out supersonic and at 50 yards it drops to sub, and starts to wobble. And that's the range you need for the best match accuracy.
    "Say hal-lo to my leetle frahnd!"

  25. #25
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    anyone help me post pis?

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