Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    central florida
    Posts
    880

    child porn vs child erotica.. and a host of things..

    Just what is Child Erotica?
    My ex. who used to work with Orange County Citizen's patrol ...
    used to down load kid porn on his computer and show it to me; when I turned him in, I was told by the detective that it could be Child Erotica..so what is that? And what is the fine line between that and kidde porn...?
    Of course later, I find out my ex was always a little weird, but why does the citizen patrol groups not get background checks...?

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kennewick, WA
    Posts
    1,762
    Quote Originally Posted by ratpatrol View Post
    Just what is Child Erotica?
    My ex. who used to work with Orange County Citizen's patrol ...
    used to down load kid porn on his computer and show it to me; when I turned him in, I was told by the detective that it could be Child Erotica..so what is that? And what is the fine line between that and kidde porn...?
    Of course later, I find out my ex was always a little weird, but why does the citizen patrol groups not get background checks...?
    As to your first question, I have no idea what the difference between Child Porn and Child Erotica might be. Any material involving children that is intended to cause sexual arousal or is possessed for the purpose of creating sexual arousal would meet the "Child Porn" definition, I think. I've never heard of the other term, although it sounds like something that a child pornographer woild use to make his product sound less threatening.

    As to your other question, members of citizen patrol groups (those associated with law enforcement agencies, anyway) are subject to background checks. But you have to keep in mind that most background checks won't reveal a pedophile unless they have been charged with a crime. Pedophiles look like most everyone else, and there have been some prominent people, including police officers, who spent entire careers in public service before being revealed as pedophiles or child pornographers.
    Tim Dees, now writing as a plain old forum member, his superpowers lost to an encounter with gold kryptonite.

  3. #3
    Operator Bearcat357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Pineapples and Coconuts
    Posts
    18,205
    Quote Originally Posted by ratpatrol View Post
    Just what is Child Erotica?
    All I can think of is that it might be written material talking about doing nasty stuff to underage kids....but since there was no pictures involved....it's allowed under law..... I believe the court ruled that animation of nasty stuff with kids is allowed since it's not actually a real person.....but I could be wrong about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by ratpatrol View Post
    but why does the citizen patrol groups not get background checks...?
    Only the agency that he was working with can tell you that.....as all the agencies I know of back home did background checks on folks involved in stuff like that. Heck, we even do them on our 2 part-time Animal Control folks....

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,981
    A possibility that child erotica might be young looking, legal adults dressing in young clothing and/or photographed in child like settings...

  5. #5
    Corporal redbird07's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,412
    I have no idea of the difference. Probably the only people who can help you with the definition will be a detective who works those cases or the pervert he's trying to lock up... Personally, I dont care about the differences. It's perverted no matter what the definintion.

  6. #6
    Forum Member cst.sb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,780
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Dees View Post
    As to your first question, I have no idea what the difference between Child Porn and Child Erotica might be. Any material involving children that is intended to cause sexual arousal or is possessed for the purpose of creating sexual arousal would meet the "Child Porn" definition, I think. I've never heard of the other term, although it sounds like something that a child pornographer woild use to make his product sound less threatening. .
    Tim is 100% bang on...

    Child Erotica = Child Porn. One is just a more articulate and polite way of saying "child porn". In the end though, it's all about what the images are being used for.

    And just to be clear, some of these guys get "motivated" by catalog photos of children. So if this guy possesses child erotica, he needs to be airlifted to pedophile isle, because he's obviously hardwired wrong and his sexuality can't be changed.

  7. #7
    My mom says i'm cool. Mystikal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,057
    funny.. as with the adult industry i thought erotica was just images in the buff while porn was actual videos or graphic pictures of penetration. interesting.

  8. #8
    Land Lubber
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    224
    What tim stated is correct for the most part. The only part that was little bit incorrect is the part that any material that has children in it, if it causes arrosal might not necessarly be classified as child pornography. It is not against the law to be a pedophile in the united states, but it is against the law to be in possession of any materials ect... that might come to a pedophiles likings, with some regard. A simple picture of some children at the mall with their family isn't child pornography. A picture of a child at the beach possibly focusing on a certain area could be considered child pornography.

    As to the OP, all that matters is you turned that person in to the proper authorities. I have had the oppurtunity to investigate some of these cases, and it would surprise you the people we come across.

    edit: also figured I would clarify, there are many many exceptions to any of the general rules. Also, as more of these cases come forward, we'll keep seeing the case law more closely hone in on these type of cases.
    Last edited by CGIS1; 06-18-2007 at 12:30 PM.

  9. #9
    Forum Member Gene L's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    1,910
    Quote Originally Posted by ratpatrol View Post
    Just what is Child Erotica?
    My ex. who used to work with Orange County Citizen's patrol ...
    used to down load kid porn on his computer and show it to me; when I turned him in, I was told by the detective that it could be Child Erotica..so what is that? And what is the fine line between that and kidde porn...?
    Of course later, I find out my ex was always a little weird, but why does the citizen patrol groups not get background checks...?
    Don't know. I think you should ask the detective.

    Perhaps it's pictures of children in clothing inappropriate to the child's age. That would be my guess. No revealing nudity. Well, baby nudity in a non-erotic way probably wouldn't be erotica.

    Don't want to visit them sites. They busted 300 people in England, Canada, the US and Australia I read on Drudge. I have helped out on kiddie porn cases and the pictures pedophiles keep are very disturbing to me, the pornographic...as I said, I can't define "erotica." They make me angry, especiallly the looks on some of the kids' faces.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    3,436
    Like some others have mentioned, child erotica could be a picture of clothed kids at a pool, at a beach...wherever. Child porn is more graphic.
    For the cops out there: You are an adult. If you want to write someone, write them. If you don't want to write someone, then don't write them.

    "Jeff, you are the best cop on this board"-Anonymous Post

  11. #11
    Operator Bearcat357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Pineapples and Coconuts
    Posts
    18,205
    Quote Originally Posted by Conner View Post
    A possibility that child erotica might be young looking, legal adults dressing in young clothing and/or photographed in child like settings...
    That is a possiblity as well.....as a couple of years ago, my agency got a message from the Feds saying they had closed down a guy that was a "Professional Photographer" that had a website based on kids in bathing suits and modeling. They wanted to know if we ran into anyone locally using that site and if so, to let them know.....

    We never had any.....but I did find the site cached on the web and it seemed to have pics of young girls in bathing suits.....and very revealing clothing....So one would suspect that the folks that couldn't get the real stuff was using that to satisfy their needs....

    A bunch of sick asshats......

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    south Florida
    Posts
    1,695
    The definition of both is the same. If it is designed to get a sexual reaction and involves children, it's a hanging offense in my mind.
    Jerry
    "If all else fails, stop using all else!"

  13. #13
    Operator Bearcat357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Pineapples and Coconuts
    Posts
    18,205
    Quote Originally Posted by jerrymaccauley View Post
    The definition of both is the same. If it is designed to get a sexual reaction and involves children, it's a hanging offense in my mind.
    Same with me....BUT....trying to get the Courts to agree with you is a whole other issue....

    We had a Federal Court in KC dismiss a traveling case because the "girl" was a Deputy..... We turned around and charged the guy in State Court instead....

    That's what happen in Texas....some asshat liberal Judge threw-out a bunch of the NBC Dateline/Perverted Justice stuff because the "victims" in the case were adults and not kids.....

  14. #14
    Land Lubber
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by Gene L View Post
    Don't know. I think you should ask the detective.

    Perhaps it's pictures of children in clothing inappropriate to the child's age. That would be my guess. No revealing nudity. Well, baby nudity in a non-erotic way probably wouldn't be erotica.

    Don't want to visit them sites. They busted 300 people in England, Canada, the US and Australia I read on Drudge. I have helped out on kiddie porn cases and the pictures pedophiles keep are very disturbing to me, the pornographic...as I said, I can't define "erotica." They make me angry, especiallly the looks on some of the kids' faces.
    I would have to agree, thats the hardest part. I have had to view some of this material, and it almost makes you sick to the stomach. Some of the stuff I can deal with, like perhaps just general nudity, but when I see the pictures with the sexual abuse, I feel true anger inside (literally, some of these pictures are so horrific that I'm not joking for a second, you actually feel sick). I honestly don't know what could drive people to hurt a child like that (I understand, but I will never truly understand). Honestly, if I had my way, well... best left unsaid...

  15. #15
    IAmJeff
    Guest
    are there any age limits with child porn or is it just anyone under 18? when I think of a child I think like 13-14 and under, but I guess in the states eyes, anyone under 18 is a child.

  16. #16
    Forum Member cst.sb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,780
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmJeff View Post
    are there any age limits with child porn or is it just anyone under 18? when I think of a child I think like 13-14 and under, but I guess in the states eyes, anyone under 18 is a child.
    There are ages of consent, and ages for electronic documents.

    Take you're above statement, when you think of a child porn you think 13-14. For some of these guys, they are trading in graphic sexual imagery of adults with 2, 3, 4 yr olds (or younger), or worse logging into live webcam feeds.

    Hats off to those who can investigate this kinda stuff and not end up damaged themselves.

  17. #17
    Forum Member Berlioz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Yorba Linda, CA
    Posts
    776
    Were there real children in the photo? As far as CA goes, if kiddie porn is drawn/digitalized/photoshopped/painted or any other replication of kiddie porn is not illegal...sick, but not illegal as long as there in no REAL child involved.
    LAPD

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    402
    Not positive but I think I read some time back that the realistic looking drawings of children are considered erotica but not porn.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    central florida
    Posts
    880
    ok.. the pictures I took off our computer were on middle age men, having 'acts' with children 5 and under including babies.. really sick stuff..since I was living in Oscelola county at the time, I took the pic of disks to 'jail/station where I knew there to be cops and talked to dective there and he was the one that sais.. could be child erotica,,,not kiddie porn.. anyway gave permission to search my house, they took all computers etc.. and then a few years later, my ex brother in law shows me my ex is on the sexual predator list..he and a bubby of his had offer to sell the items but apparently he was not charged for that.. anyway.. I had a domestic violence injunction against him ( for battery) but had to drop that to get my divorce...
    the man is a real jeckecle and hyde guy, used to work with the deputies.. In Orange county, friend with Beary the sherriff and was well thought of when he worked Disney security....years ago..
    An excellent computer hacker, has been flowing my email for years with crap..my ex being the wonderful , vindictive man hat he is...HERE IS THE NEW QUESTION:
    Should I get another injunction on him???
    I really have heard that those aren't really worth the paper they are printed on, but I really not want him to come to my work.. we have enough nuts here, allready..

  20. #20
    Land Lubber
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by Berlioz View Post
    Were there real children in the photo? As far as CA goes, if kiddie porn is drawn/digitalized/photoshopped/painted or any other replication of kiddie porn is not illegal...sick, but not illegal as long as there in no REAL child involved.
    I'm not too familiar with california laws on this, but most states usually format their laws in this area after the federal laws. Digitalized pictures are becoming a larger problem now, and while we can still tell the difference between real ones and fake ones, some are predicting in the future we won't be able to tell the difference. For a definition, I believe you can find it in title 18 section 2251 (I'm just pulling that off the top of me head, so not 100% sure)

  21. #21
    Forum Member Nightshift va's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The South
    Posts
    2,801
    Quote Originally Posted by ratpatrol View Post
    Just what is Child Erotica?
    My ex. who used to work with Orange County Citizen's patrol ...
    used to down load kid porn on his computer and show it to me; when I turned him in, I was told by the detective that it could be Child Erotica..so what is that? And what is the fine line between that and kidde porn...?
    Of course later, I find out my ex was always a little weird, but why does the citizen patrol groups not get background checks...?
    Good point and one that should be made before one of those wanna bee's impacts an honest hard working police officer with their untrained input on internal investigations boards. Thats why they need to do away with citizen patrol units having anything to do with policy and procedures and officers standard operating procedures. There is no difference with regard to your ex .kiddie porn is kiddie porn and he's the lowest form of life.
    "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. The MARINES don't have that problem." ....Ronald Reagan

  22. #22
    jimmy17
    Guest

    I believe

    In arizona adults dressed up like children is illegal. Idk how they can enforce that. I'm sure every person has there own opinion on what is child like.

  23. #23
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Nor Cal
    Posts
    4
    We just had this clss in the academy a few months ago:
    Child Porn is sexual in nature and is intended just for sexual arousal.
    Child Erotica can contain nudity, but can also be "art" so if a kid is standing naked and not doing anything sexually he could bo posing for an artist.
    It is kind of like the difference from playboy, and some hardcore magazine.

  24. #24
    the quiet one icecoldblueyes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    6,181
    *Tim Dees gave me the ok to post a reply in this section.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Notownsfinest View Post
    We just had this clss in the academy a few months ago:
    Child Porn is sexual in nature and is intended just for sexual arousal.
    Child Erotica can contain nudity, but can also be "art" so if a kid is standing naked and not doing anything sexually he could bo posing for an artist.
    It is kind of like the difference from playboy, and some hardcore magazine.
    just adding to Notownsfinest's reply:

    The definitions between erotica and porn come down to artistic value. Erotica is defined as 'art or literature intended to arouse sexual desire or love or dealing with sexual love'. Porn is defined as 'obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, esp. those having little or no artistic merit'. So it boils down to what one may perceive as artistic.

    Wikepedia had an interesting thing on the subject as well...

    The erotica/pornography debate

    The distinction between erotica and pornography (as well as the lesser known genre of sexual entertainment, ribaldry) is difficult to identify, if not completely impossible. Proponents for erotic art argue that such work is intended to arouse aesthetic rather than erotic feelings, and is therefore not pornographic. Opponents see this as a pretentious stand as they believe that erotic art shares the same purposes as pornography.

    The issue of whether a distinction can be made between erotica and pornography raises multiple complicated questions. These questions include whether aesthetic and erotic feelings are mutually exclusive, how the level of commercialism and tastefulness in an artwork can be objectively measured, and at what point they make the work pornographic.

    In general, "erotica" refers to portrayals of sexually arousing material that hold or aspire to artistic or scientific merit, whereas "pornography" often connotes the prurient depiction of sexual acts, with little or no artistic value.
    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
    and I'm not sure about the former.
    -Albert Einstein





  25. #25
    Forum Member SWATCybercop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    447
    Child pornography is when an underage child is engaged in a sexual act.

    Child erotica is when an underage child is not necessarily engaged in a sexual act, but is recorded under conditions which may be erotic in nature for individuals so inclined, such as pictures of children posing nude.

    Whether CE is illegal depends on the jurisdiction. CP is ALWAYS illegal.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •