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Thread: CBP officer

  1. #21076
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevokg View Post
    I recently took the poly for CBP. My location was for LAX/LB. Yes, indeed what an honorable end to a extremely long and redundant process, but it is what it is. The poly is part the process for most and or all law enforcement agencies. The only section of the three fold criminal justice system that does not poly is state and federal correction departments, most probation departments and maybe the courts. My interrogation went as followed. I entered and signed the appropriate forms. The polygrapher will go over what will be asked, such as integrity, drug activity, and serious crimes. I did not have to answer the national security questions, because I am already a DHS employee. They do a number test and you have to lie intentionally. Do not be surprised if the polygrapher states you are an ideal candidate for a polygraph, because I can tell when you lie. He stated my heart rate jumped through the roof. This is an interrogation, not a interview. I told the truth to all questions and was calm during the test. I have taken 2 other polygraph test and passed both. They ask you the same questions three times in different order. After the test was finished, he stated I reacted to a question. He stated I can tell you are bothered, because your hands were perspiring, but said nothing about my blood pressure, heart rate, or breathing pattern. Although my hands were perspiring for every question. He stated I reacted to concealing any illegal drug activity. That includes using, selling, buying, and smuggling. I have never used any narcotic, but have known some who have and they used it around me at high school parties. So he interrogated me after that, he tried to sympathize, showed empathy, and then it was the bad cop routine. It was polygraph procedures 101, but never the less he was doing his job. He told me to to get a snack, because it was going to be a long day. Once I returned, he stated he tried to contact the review panel to get a second opinion, but was not able to contact them. He then told me to take a 15 minute break, then switched it to a 20 minute break, then he switched it to a 45 minute break. This procedure is to cause a person to think and when they return, if they return, the polygrapher figures they will spill their guts to him. He said, when you get back my review panel should have contacted me and I can get a second opinion. I went to lunch and told my girlfriend, I guarantee when I enter the room again he will further interrogate me. As I walked in the first thing he did is grab his pen and notepad and ask is there anything you want to tell me? He stated his review panel agreed with his decision in I was not telling him something. I work for DHS they do not work that fast and they do not give 2nd polygraphs right on the spot like that. It is a process and can take weeks to review these things to make a clear decision. They review your charts, application, and the voice recordings of test. After that is done they may schedule you for another polygraph, fail you, or pass you on to the next step. Furthermore I stuck to my guns, because I told the truth from the beginning. He asked would I be willing to take another test, I replied most definitely. He stated then you have to tell me something, because I do not feel comfortable giving you another test. Furthermore he stated, I can't give you another test unless you tell me what is bothering you. Also that was real nice of him, but that should not matter, if he felt comfortable. So he asked, you did not try anything at least one time in high school, I replied no sir. He did the routine good cop and then bad cop. He stated right now, you want a passing chart and you do not have it. So he grilled me some more, threatened me by saying I will not become a Customs officer and I may lose my current job with DHS, because this may come back the branch you work for. I told him sir I have told you the truth and I know when I go home I can look myself in the mirror knowing so. He then stated, well since you are not talking this test is over goodbye.

    He never told me I passed and he never told me I failed. He said I can roll the dice and he will send it in for review for a second opinion and I can see what happens. Remember he stated, he had already sent it in for review and the big dogs already agreed with him, I am showing deception an hour ago. So he bluffed regarding sending it in, he went to lunch or something.

    I just want to give all applicants a heads up, especially if this is your first poly. This is an interrogation, the agent testing you is not your friend. I talked to many officers who painted a picture as to how the test may go. Furthermore I learned about most of the tactics in college, as I am a criminal justice major. The agent stated if an applicant has not had their entry on duty, they can expect to receive a call to take a poly. Although he then stated they are trying to poly 100% of the applicants who are in the pipeline, but we may not be able to get them all. Keep in mind a reaction does not mean you failed. Anything can spark a reaction. They score these things like a written test per say and it depends on how strong is the reaction. Polygraphs were made to get a applicant and or criminal to confess/give admissions to things pertaining to what is asked on the test or to the crime. Furthermore once you give an admission that is an automatic DQ, because you are now deemed a liar. So tell the truth and stick to your guns. Whatever you stated on the application is the truth, because that has your signature on it. The polygraph test is really an integrity test to those in law enforcement. Just shows you can tell the truth as I did and you can fail or you can lie and fail; or tell the truth and pass or lie and pass. Polygraphs are not reliable and many honest, hard working people of integrity are deemed liars, because our body reacted.

    I APOLOGIZE FOR THE RAMBLING, BUT NEEDED TO VENT PER SAY.
    Last edited by TXGRL; 07-27-2010 at 10:59 AM.

  2. #21077
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    To SVOKG: What happend to you is exactly word from word what happend to me...it's an eerie coincidence! ( also interesting since we both work for DHS) Maybe this is part of the hiring process? maybe they are trying to weed everyone out to get the TSU pool down to 0 ? I don't know but I will have to say this has to be the worse experience ever ( job related). I will keep y'all posted if I clear this, because if I do, then we know this has to be part of the hiring process...( which is a sick joke mind game tatic)...I thought I applied for CBP..not CIA....

    Also I'm in TX..so my location I applied for is E.TX...just thought I would mention that since it almost sounded like we had the exact same agent doing our poly! They have to be following some sort of script!..or this is just a really bad dream...
    Last edited by TXGRL; 07-27-2010 at 11:46 AM.

  3. #21078
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    I like how they don't expect people looking for an investigative job in law enforcement to find out more about the polygraph. I refuse to look at ways to beat it, but I would like to know what the heck to look forward to.
    Last edited by TuffStuffCBP; 07-27-2010 at 02:02 PM.
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  4. #21079
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXGRL View Post
    To SVOKG: What happend to you is exactly word from word what happend to me...it's an eerie coincidence! ( also interesting since we both work for DHS) Maybe this is part of the hiring process? maybe they are trying to weed everyone out to get the TSU pool down to 0 ? I don't know but I will have to say this has to be the worse experience ever ( job related). I will keep y'all posted if I clear this, because if I do, then we know this has to be part of the hiring process...( which is a sick joke mind game tatic)...I thought I applied for CBP..not CIA....

    Also I'm in TX..so my location I applied for is E.TX...just thought I would mention that since it almost sounded like we had the exact same agent doing our poly! They have to be following some sort of script!..or this is just a really bad dream...
    I understand what you are going through young lady, as well as countless others. You are exactly right, the polygrapher is conducting the test based on a script, they are actors. They are trained interrogators, probably trained from the dept of defense polygraph institute or something. All will experience something in the line to as we did regardless of where they live in the country. I too will keep all posted, because they will review my application in a whole, the voice recordings of the poly, and the poly charts. I really hope I get cleared or get a second chance. Although TXGRL maybe since we already work for the Department of Homeland Security they will show mercy.

  5. #21080
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    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffCBP View Post
    I like how they don't expect people looking for an investigative job in law enforcement to find out more about the polygraph. I refuse to look at ways to beat it, but I would like to know what the heck to look forward to.
    Most definitely TuffStuff it is not exactly a bad thing to research the poly, but they frown upon when applicants research the poly for the use of countermeasures in regards to how to beat it. Like me, I told them in college in 2008 I did a group project where the topic was polygraphs, but did not research polygraphs prior to this test to inquire on how to beat it. You can look forward to an interrogation. This is an integrity test.Do not believe anything the polygrapher is telling you, he will look you dead in the eyes and lie to your face. Whatever you put on the application is the truth.

    Tell the truth=fail
    Lie=fail
    Tell the truth=pass
    Lie=pass, the poly is very unreliable.
    Last edited by sevokg; 07-27-2010 at 04:05 PM.

  6. #21081
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    Hello everyone. Just an update - passed the polygraph this afternoon in Buffalo... Good luck to everyone else - hopefully calls come out someday!
    CBPO - Buffalo-Niagara, NY
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  7. #21082
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    Good job cbp14051, I hope I get the same polygraph examiner that you got. I am reading some of these other stories and I am beginning to think there is some lifetime TV conspiracy going on, ha. I am not too worried about it. This will be my 5th or 6th polygraph and I have yet to fail one. LMK when you get a call or if you get any further updates.

    Oh, and before I forget, did your CASS update already? Mine is still pending yet I got my equifax and it shows that U.S. Customs Service ran my credit check two months ago! Paper draggers!
    CBPO
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  8. #21083
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbp14051 View Post
    Hello everyone. Just an update - passed the polygraph this afternoon in Buffalo... Good luck to everyone else - hopefully calls come out someday!
    Could you share your experience? what kind of questions were you asked and were they hard on you too?

  9. #21084
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    I have a great idea.......how about we poly ALL politicians. Let's see how fast these congressmen change their views on polygraphs if they had to go through them too. If the average honest American can't pass one, can you imagine the failure rates for our congressmen/president?!? It's easy for some congressmen to sit behind a desk and sign off on a bill requiring people to go through a test about as accurate as flipping a coin when they aren't subject to one. All the polygraph "experts" and polygraph manufacturers tell said congressmen how awesome these machines are knowing they can make big money.

  10. #21085
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    Quote Originally Posted by tippmann87 View Post
    I have a great idea.......how about we poly ALL politicians. Let's see how fast these congressmen change their views on polygraphs if they had to go through them too. If the average honest American can't pass one, can you imagine the failure rates for our congressmen/president?!? It's easy for some congressmen to sit behind a desk and sign off on a bill requiring people to go through a test about as accurate as flipping a coin when they aren't subject to one. All the polygraph "experts" and polygraph manufacturers tell said congressmen how awesome these machines are knowing they can make big money.
    Going through a polygraph has definitely made me against the idea of polygraphs ever being usable evidence in a court of law. A lot of it is actually opinion of the person conducting the test. Things they see as signs of "guilt" that can largely be contributed to being placed in a stressful situation in a chair staring at a wall and told to focus only on the questions but having to endure 2 minutes of downtime between each question where your mind has little choice but to wander or focus on how uncomfortable your body is feeling. Asking questions in a manner that you are unable to not doubt yourself for a moment. The whole process is quite ridiculous.
    Hoping to make the move from one capital to another

  11. #21086
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    @ svokg...Yeah, well I was told the reason why I was lying is because I work for DHS already and everything is snowballing from here and crashing down on me, and they are going to find out that I either have been hiding a habbit or illegal activity! and that I know that this could cost me my job! LOL...give me a break....I told them I work for DHS and get drug tested all the time, so it's impossible..then he got upset and said "well your involved somehow and your not telling us something!" Then I was accused of maybe "pocketing" the stuff that I find at my job now..unbelievable! Anyway the agent kept telling me he is bias on the polygraph and it works...B.S..@ TuffStuff, the first thing they did was asked me if I researched on the internet about poly exams, and if I knew anything about it..of course I said no, because I didn't look anything up at all...I wanted a "fresh" mind, and plus I had nothing to lie about, so I wan't worried... but even when I told him that I didn't know anything about the poly, he looked at me and questioned me again, like if I was lying about that! It didn't matter what I said he made me felt like a liar the min. I walked in the door...which made me nervous, and worried about everything from how to place my hands, or was I moving too much?, was I sweating?, are my eyes shifting when he talks to me?...I think it's all part of a "script" to get you to feel uncomfortable, and a liar, the minute you walk in...like svokg said...it's more like an interrogation than anything...there is no way to "prep" for this...actually the questions are not even bad, they are easy simple questions, like do you use drugs? have you ever been charged of a crime? ect.. it's when you take the poly, and when they believe you "react" to the simple question is when all hell breaks loose...what ever question you supposedly "react" to is when they go full force and use all the bad cop/good cop tatics to get you to confess to something you didn't do...that's where it all starts! So good luck to yall that haven't taken it yet, cause you'll need it, unless your in Buffllo NY because it seems that those guys are passing it? man lucky dogs! I'm interested to see how thier poly went and if they were interrogated? Maybe I was just unlucky, I don't know.. I guess I just have to sit here an wait to see what the "review panel" at Headquarters think...if there is even such a thing! since apparently the agent had already spoke to them and agreed I was lying...I think he was the one lying..LOL



    Quote Originally Posted by sevokg View Post
    I understand what you are going through young lady, as well as countless others. You are exactly right, the polygrapher is conducting the test based on a script, they are actors. They are trained interrogators, probably trained from the dept of defense polygraph institute or something. All will experience something in the line to as we did regardless of where they live in the country. I too will keep all posted, because they will review my application in a whole, the voice recordings of the poly, and the poly charts. I really hope I get cleared or get a second chance. Although TXGRL maybe since we already work for the Department of Homeland Security they will show mercy.

  12. #21087
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXGRL View Post
    Yeah, well I was told the reason why I was lying is because I work for DHS already and everything is snowballing from here and crashing down on me, and they are going to find out that I either have been hiding a habbit or illegal activity! and that I know that this could cost me my job!..
    Very odd, Stalin did the same thing to his top guys, accused them of being traitors to the State and got rid of them. Same thing happened to the top commie officials who were part of the state police in Hungary before 1989 (the AVH terrorized the citizens and made people disappear for decades, then its own top dogs turned against each other because nobody inside the party trusted each other). I'm sure similar things happened in the Securitate in Romania and the Gestapo in East Germany. More recently, Saddam did the same thing (getting rid of his opposition) before he was dethroned . I wonder if the poly could be a sign of similar things to come within DHS. That would be pretty bad. Since the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act, things have unfortunately already begun leaning towards the left. Not saying that the purpose of the poly is to figure out what current employees (or prospective ones) need to be tortured and then killed, but makes you wonder what the f is going on within DHS.

    Just to clarify, in the aforementioned examples, polygraphs were not given, and I don't feel sorry one bit for any communist nor the fate that befell them (just retelling what happened during commie times in other countries). Just saying someone accusing you of an offense was enough to get you wacked.
    Last edited by sandwichman; 07-28-2010 at 04:19 PM.
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  13. #21088
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    sandwichman, what are you talking about? Are you a historian? Because your history is distorted. Were taking about CBPO and you ramble on about your mainstream distorted view of history. Stick to the CBPO topic.

  14. #21089
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    I was so confused after reading that, but soon realized that he had to be kidding. What a stretch.

  15. #21090
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    I got a call for a polygraph. It's in a few weeks. I'll let you guys know how it goes. I am not too worried... even after reading all the 'horror' stories. What is meant to be will be!

    100th post! Do I win anything?
    CBPO
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    Sorry about that, my last post was a bit scatterbrained. What TXGRL and a few others wrote about polygraphs sounds in a way like what high level communist officials did to each other to thin out their ranks. It doesn't make any sense to me that a current CBP officer (or someone already employed under DHS) would be asked to take a polygraph out of the blue, then after answering everything truthfully have either their reaction to certain questions or their responses get interpreted as being deceitful and as a result be deemed no longer worthy to be employed as a CBPO. I am assuming here that the point of the poly is to weed out people who fail it either based on their replies or whether their hands got sweaty after certain questions.

    If you're already a CBPO and you have a good track record, follow the rules, have no questionable conduct, why be asked to take a poly?

    From what I heard, in the State of Florida, polygraphs cannot be used as evidence in court because of their inaccuracy. Does Federal law dictate that polygraphs can be used to fire people from Federal employment?
    Last edited by sandwichman; 07-28-2010 at 06:50 PM.
    CBP written test Miami, FL
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    never got first)
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  17. #21092
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    I received a phone call from the Office of Internal Affairs regarding some statements I made in my BI interview in 2008. I had to send a few documents today and now CASS shows:

    "Referred to Schedule EOD 7/26/2010 You have been referred to the scheduling unit. "

    My turn to wait in TSU.....

  18. #21093
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    A friend of mine, a 25 year veteran of the FBI, recently told me there are two words to justify the polygraph in the federal government: ROBERT HANSSEN.

    I would agree and add two more words - specifically for CBP: GULF CARTEL.
    "He made the night a little brighter where ever he would go. The old lamplighter of long, long ago."

  19. #21094
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    I'm in TSU and the whole process for me has already taken years. If I get polygraphed and fail, I will NOT take this lying down. I have chosen CBPO as my career and if I get thrown out for something that is not even admissible in court, I'm kicking and screaming all the way 'till I've exhausted all of my options.

    Here is a thought for you. Instead of accepting the fact that you've failed the polygraph and all of the effort you've put into becoming a CBPO has been wasted, why don't the people that have failed join up and have a CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT??? Seriously, as stated above, if the courts won't accept them, why should CBP? When we applied I don't think it ever said anything about being polygraphed. (someone correct me if I'm wrong please) It doesn't seem right that they can change the rules when we've passed everything, some people from the same timeline have been accepted as CBPOs already without the poly, etc.

    So, having said that, please PM me if you are serious about joining my list of people who would potentially want to sue in a class action lawsuit at some point. I will be starting a list. Having read everything in the last few pages here regarding failing polys for no reason makes me disgusted. WE are not at fault for CBP sending out so many offers in the last few years. We should not be eliminated based on a false and inaccurate test designed to reduce the amount of people in the pool.

    Please don't point out the fact that I'm looking to sue even though CBP isn't my employer, etc, etc. In the end all I want is to become a CBPO and if some idiot with a polygraph certification can have my chosen career decided by a coin toss, a wrong fidget, a crappy commute before the test, etc., I'm not going to take that lying down. I've never sued before and I'm not one to throw that word around, but I do feel that this is incredibly unfair. For those of you who've failed and are not sure if you'd want to join my list (read, in case we decide to sue later list), I'll leave you with these two points.

    1. What CBP is doing is unfair, unprecedented, unlawful, and I think we would have a chance.
    2. PAUL N. LUVERA
    Last edited by pendingville; 07-29-2010 at 07:06 PM.

  20. #21095
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    Quote Originally Posted by pendingville View Post
    I'm in TSU and the whole process for me has already been over 2 years. If I get polygraphed and fail, I will NOT take this lying down. I have chosen CBPO as my career and if after 2 years I get thrown out for something that is not even admissible in court, I'm kicking and screaming all the way 'till I've exhausted all of my options.

    Here is a thought for you. Instead of accepting the fact that you've failed the polygraph and all of the effort you've put into becoming a CBPO has been wasted, why don't the people that have failed join up and have a CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT??? Seriously, as stated above, if the courts won't accept them, why should CBP? When we applied I don't think it ever said anything about being polygraphed. (someone correct me if I'm wrong please, I applied 05/2008.) It doesn't seem right that they can change the rules when we've passed everything, some people from the same timeline have been accepted as CBPOs already without the poly, etc.

    So, having said that, please PM me if you are serious about joining my list of people who would potentially want to sue in a class action lawsuit at some point. I will be starting a list. Having read everything in the last few pages here regarding failing polys for no reason makes me disgusted. WE are not at fault for CBP sending out so many offers in the last 2 years. We should not be eliminated based on a false and inaccurate test designed to reduce the amount of people in the pool.

    Please don't point out the fact that I'm looking to sue even though CBP isn't my employer, etc, etc. In the end all I want is to become a CBPO and if some idiot with a polygraph certification can have my chosen career decided by a coin toss, a wrong fidget, a crappy commute before the test, etc., I'm not going to take that lying down. I've never sued before and I'm not one to throw that word around, but I do feel that this is incredibly unfair. For those of you who've failed and are not sure if you'd want to join my list (read, in case we decide to sue later list), I'll leave you with these two points.

    1. What CBP is doing is unfair, unprecedented, unlawful, and I think we would have a chance.
    2. PAUL N. LUVERA
    I wish you luck in any lawsuit. However, even though the polygraph is not admissible in court, it is used in the vast majority of hiring processes for law enforcement agencies. Some states such as New Jersey had laws against it use in hiring but it is by far the execption not the rule. As for CBP the polygraph has always been a possiblity for years. The agency just didn't use it. If you read the fine print in what was sent to you. You will find it stated that the polygraph was a possiblity. You do realize that no matter how long the process takes, and what you did to stay in the process, the agency is under no obligation to hire you even if you are 100% suitable.

    FB

  21. #21096
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    If CBP had the desire to empty out TSU, all they'd have to do is slightly modify the current hiring procedures, open a new announcement, cancel the past announcements and have all applicants apply under the new announcement. Cancel all old announcements and the TSU# drops to 0.

    There's no need to use a cumbersome and expensive method like polys..if the goal is to clear out TSU.

  22. #21097
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    I'd be careful about threatening lawsuits on a public forum. For some reason, people read them and companies and governments enjoy avoiding lawsuits as a rule. Anyone who would come in pre-hire with guns blazing is bound to go off at the slightest sign of unfairness post-hire. What organization would want to hire someone who was threatening them from outset?

    Anyone in their right mind would avoid signing up for a hypothetical class action in the event that they failed a polygraph.
    Last edited by TuffStuffCBP; 07-29-2010 at 05:23 PM.
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  23. #21098
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    Then why the purge of people waiting in the wings? Polygraphs are seemingly being used without explanation when the results don't appear positive. There are no second chances from what it seems.

    How is it fair that if two friends who theoretically applied a few months apart, had same criminal background, had identical scores/timelines on finishing everything, etc., didn't both get hired? I understand the need to introduce a more effective way of reducing the amount of people who may have potential ties to other interests like drug cartels, etc., but surely a polygraph is not it. Shouldn't the line be drawn in the sand of say introducing a new announcement where the polygraph really is mentioned as one of the steps in the CASS, just like your medical, etc.? Why allow 100s of CBPOs in and 100s now forced out when their starting point was nearly the same?

    I have nothing to hide from a poly but I know I'm not good at them. I've passed 1, failed 1. Mind you that process took a few months, not a few years, so yes, I do feel that I have much more invested in CBP. I just find it hard to believe that DHS and CBP find it reasonable to dangle a GS-5/7 in front of your nose for years, some as much as 3 years, only to snatch it away from you with one test that is as discredited as the poly.

    That is not right and that is my point.

  24. #21099
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffCBP View Post
    I'd be careful about threatening lawsuits on a public forum. For some reason, people read them and companies and governments enjoy avoiding lawsuits as a rule. Anyone who would come in pre-hire with guns blazing is bound to go off at the slightest sign of unfairness post-hire. What organization would want to hire someone who was threatening them from outset?

    Anyone in their right mind would avoid signing up for a hypothetical class action in the event that they failed a polygraph.
    .

  25. #21100
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by pendingville View Post
    Then why the purge of people waiting in the wings? Polygraphs are seemingly being used without explanation when the results don't appear positive. There are no second chances from what it seems.

    How is it fair that if two friends who theoretically applied a few months apart, had same criminal background, had identical scores/timelines on finishing everything, etc., didn't both get hired? I understand the need to introduce a more effective way of reducing the amount of people who may have potential ties to other interests like drug cartels, etc., but surely a polygraph is not it. Shouldn't the line be drawn in the sand of say introducing a new announcement where the polygraph really is mentioned as one of the steps in the CASS, just like your medical, etc.? Why allow 100s of CBPOs in and 100s now forced out when their starting point was nearly the same?

    I have nothing to hide from a poly but I know I'm not good at them. I've passed 1, failed 1. Mind you that process took a few months, not a few years, so yes, I do feel that I have much more invested in CBP. I just find it hard to believe that DHS and CBP find it reasonable to dangle a GS-5/7 in front of your nose for years, some as much as 3 years, only to snatch it away from you with one test that is as discredited as the poly.

    That is not right and that is my point.
    Hello to all of those that are on this forum, I have been reading since months and months ago but never joined till now, and just now because I want to share with you guys my experience as well, I have been in TSU since Sep 09 for AZ and last week guess what happened??? yeah you got that right I failed the famous POLY, specially the drug and crime questions.....and without going in too much details if I need to say how it went the whole test procedure, don’t need to do it because it was exactly the same way as the ones I have read here, exactly the same, is like a set procedure, like the examiners agreed on how to do it or how to eliminate applicants, to me and I know to for many of you it seems pretty weird that most applicants are not passing it!!!, as from my case the only thing I want to tell you is that I always fight for what I think is right and that I am being proactive and will not keep my arms crossed and i think that there is something for us to do regarding this issue.....by the way this is my first of many posts i hope....

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