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  1. #1
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    Required to Carry Off Duty?

    Just wondering if there are alot of agencys that require off duty carry. The last I heard the Michigan State Police required off duty carry. I also heard one of there troopers got into a motorcycle crash, fell on his right hip ( where his gun was ) and broke it. He filed for a work related injury and won becasue the doc said it the gun wouldn't have benn there he probabley would not have broken it. The other thing I wonder is were the line is drawn for controling activity off duty? I just wanted to know if anyone has heard the pro's and con's to required carry.
    In God we trust...everyone else gets searched.

  2. #2
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    "When "off duty", each member will carry or have in his/her immediate possession, his/her badge, department sidearm, or a pistol or revolver, as authorized by the Department, and the identification card. This rule shall not apply when members are engaged in sports and activities of such a nature as to make it impractical or when imbibing alcoholic beverages."

    Straight from my dept's rules and regs. Is it enforced? No, sadly, since not many guys from my dept. carry off duty.

  3. #3
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    Our dept says you can not must carry off duty. I used to be lax about it, would carry whenever I felt like it. Then I attended Lt Col David Grossman's class and since that day I have never left my house with a gun. Those of you who have not had the oppurtunity to hear Lt Col Grossman, please check out his site. His class is expensive but it is well worth it


    http://killology.com/
    the more laws, the less justice
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  4. #4
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    What did this guy say that changed your mind? I can't make heads or tails out of that webpage.
    "People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant".

  5. #5
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    He spoke mainly about the mindset that LEO's and military need to do our job. He also spoke about the duty that we have to those who allow us to protect them to always be able to offer that protection. A cop off duty without a gun is nothing but another victim. If you have the spare time, you should read his books, very amazing stuff.
    the more laws, the less justice
    Sic volvere Parcas

  6. #6
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    Carrying off duty

    My department states you must have an authorized weapon "available". I suppose that is open to some interpretation. Typically, I carry mine... Unless I am out drinking. We are also required to have a spare mag, badge and a set of cuffs. I think it's good in some ways because I know I will always have it incase of a situation where I need it. However, I always worry about a situation where I can't get to it or somehow fall into a place where it is discovered I am a cop before I can get it.

  7. #7
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    U.S. Capitol Police requires off duty carry

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kansascop39
    Our dept says you can not must carry off duty. I used to be lax about it, would carry whenever I felt like it. Then I attended Lt Col David Grossman's class and since that day I have never left my house with a gun. Those of you who have not had the oppurtunity to hear Lt Col Grossman, please check out his site. His class is expensive but it is well worth it


    http://killology.com/

    You said you never leave your house with your gun. Judging from your post I think that should read "without".
    "People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant".

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kansascop39
    Our dept says you can not must carry off duty. I used to be lax about it, would carry whenever I felt like it. Then I attended Lt Col David Grossman's class and since that day I have never left my house with a gun. Those of you who have not had the oppurtunity to hear Lt Col Grossman, please check out his site. His class is expensive but it is well worth it


    http://killology.com/
    I saw this guy once, he is great! His presentation is absolutly eye opening to violence in this country. A must for School Resource Officers!
    In God we trust...everyone else gets searched.

  10. #10
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    My department is in a mostly Rural county here in Georgia ( I also live in the county). My Department policy is that you carry off duty. We maybe called upon at anytime. Each Officer has an Pager and off duty/back up wapon assigned to him.
    Live everyday as if it is your Last! Because someday you will be right.

    Everyone has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

  11. #11
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    My dept says we may carry off duty, but are not required to. My co-workers think I'm a paranoid gun nut because I do carry off duty, and I carry a BUG on duty.

  12. #12
    Kickin' back in Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by kansascop39
    Those of you who have not had the oppurtunity to hear Lt Col Grossman, please check out his site. His class is expensive but it is well worth it


    http://killology.com/
    Ditto's the praise of Col. Grassman. Thanks for posting that site, I was unaware he had one.

    Mine required weapon, ID, Badge and handcuffs in the G.O.'s. There was no stipulation that allowed you to go without at any time.
    Do you realize that in about 40 years, we'll have thousands of old ladies running around with tattoos?
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    Common sense... the LEAST COMMON of all of the senses.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Why are hemorrhoids called "hemorrhoids" instead of "assteroids"?

  13. #13
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    required on call 24/7
    live everyday as if it your last...because one day it will be

  14. #14

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    My department says it's required......but I know many deputies who choose not to.

  15. #15
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    My dept suggests that their officers carry off-duty. Despite being optional, the following event is why I always do, even when checking the postal mail outside my home.

    **************

    http://www.odmp.org/officer.php?oid=17684

    Sergeant Carl Dewayne Graham
    Missouri State Highway Patrol
    Missouri
    End of Watch: Sunday, March 20, 2005

    Biographical Info
    Age: 37
    Tour of Duty: 12 yrs
    Badge Number: 223

    Incident Details
    Cause of Death: Gunfire
    Date of Incident: Sunday, March 20, 2005
    Weapon Used: Gun; Unknown type
    Suspect Info: Apprehended

    Sergeant Graham was shot and killed in an ambush. The shooting occurred in front of his home, which is in a rural area near Van Buren, Missouri. The officer had just completed his shift and arrived at his home when he was ambushed in his driveway.

    A suspect was charged with Sergeant Graham's murder on March 29, 2005. The suspect had been under investigation by Sergeant Graham for leaving the scene of a fatal accident on November 26, 2004. The suspect was arrested and charged for his connection with the accident on March 23, 2005, three days after Sergeant Graham's murder. Six days later, while still in custody, he was charged with Sergeant Graham's murder.

    Sergeant Graham had served with the Missouri State Highway Patrol for 12 years. He is survived by his 4-year-old son and parents.

  16. #16
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    Our Dept. SOP encourages but doesn't require us to carry off duty. However, we're constantly told not to be caught without our weapon. So, I at least have a pistol in my car if not on me.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kansascop39
    He spoke mainly about the mindset that LEO's and military need to do our job. He also spoke about the duty that we have to those who allow us to protect them to always be able to offer that protection. A cop off duty without a gun is nothing but another victim. If you have the spare time, you should read his books, very amazing stuff.
    When I saw his "Bullet Proof Mind" class not too long ago, he also drove home the point that denial will kill you twice, because if you don't get yourself slaughtered because you were not prepared to defend yourself, living with the knowledge you may have saved others will be psychologically devistating for many years. He also pointed out that the chances the fire hydrant right down the street from your house will be used to save lives is slim to none, but does that mean it shouldn't be there? Something to ponder. We don't carry off duty to start gunfights, we carry to end them.
    "The bravest are surely those who know exactly what lies before them, glory and danger alike, yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it"

  18. #18
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    My dept says it must be "readily available for use". That leaves interpretation. If you're playing a contact sport, in the trunk will do. If out shopping, on your body is best.

    If there is an incident we'll be second-guessed. No doubt about it.
    I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

    Douglas MacArthur

  19. #19
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    We're not required, but it's strongly recommended. The only time I don't carry is when I'm going to class (still a full-time college student).

  20. #20
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    RCMP members are barred by policy from carrying firearms, either duty or personal, unless authorized (by our Unit Commander re: our duty weapon, or for a lawful reason and in a lawful manner re: personal). From what I understand, most other Canadian Law Enforcement Agencies authorized to carry firearms have similar policy. Canadian Federal law either bans, or restricts, carrying of firearms and other weapons by anyone.

    Having said the above, however, in most RCMP Divisions across Canada, our Regular Members "voluntarily" take calls after, or before, scheduled duty hours, or on days off, so are generally authorized by their Unit Commander to have their firearms, defensive tools and patrol vehicle readily available to them for use when called out. Most often that will mean having the SBA, firearms and other tools loaded in the patrol vehicle, which is then used to attend Church, kids school plays or shopping, while we had a pager, or now have a cell phone, on our hips, ready to go whenever to do whatever.

    Thankfully, I no longer have to do that, and can leave the vehicle, guns and other gear at the Detachment until my next shift.

  21. #21
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    My department doesn't require it. In fact, they do some speaking during orientation for new deputies about carrying, the way it is presented currently scares most people out of doing it.

    Like GlockGirl said, I am looked at as a freak because I choose to carry off duty and have a second weapon on duty. I also get picked on for the light on my primary weapon and my top notch equipment. Interestingly enough, when someone needs help or has tactical type questions, I am the first they call. I'm fine with the good natured ribbing because I know that I am the best possibly prepared and equipped.

    Edited to add:

    I can't say enough good things about Grossman. I've seen the Bulletproof mind presentation. It was a GREAT eye opener and helped to cement many of my ideas about the job. I also thought his new book (On Combat) was an amazing piece of writing for LE/Mil. If you can't get to the presentation, pick up the 4hr CD set, its a highlights of the presentation.
    Last edited by jeeper; 04-09-2005 at 06:05 PM.
    Nobody ever wants to have to fight, but its a darn good idea for someone to know how.

  22. #22
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    I am looked at as a freak because I choose to carry off duty and have a second weapon on duty. I also get picked on for the light on my primary weapon and my top notch equipment. Interestingly enough, when someone needs help or has tactical type questions, I am the first they call.
    Funny how that works isn't it? Same thing happens to me a lot. I think it stems from some people feeling inadequate when they see you take pride in and have more knowledge in the job then they do. I just love when they ask for help after they finish busting my balls for all the stuff I have.

  23. #23
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    My agency leaves it at the officer's discretion but the Sheriff's Office has a manditory carry policy. I was out with a deputy friend (both of us off duty)of mine the other day at Chilis and his Lt (that was on duty and in uniform) walked up to him and commented in the middle of the dining area that he was impressed by his concealment job. My friend told his Lt that he didn't have his weapon on him and the Lt suspended him for 3 day right there in the middle of Chilis. Very inappropriate if you ask me. I can understand manditory carry but he was not allowed to explain anyhting such as having a beer or whatever.

  24. #24
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    I can't imagine working for a department that "forces" you to carry 24/7. I would say if they compensate me for doing it, I would, if not, no dice. By the way, I very rarely carry off-duty.

  25. #25
    Kickin' back in Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShortSeven
    I can't imagine working for a department that "forces" you to carry 24/7. I would say if they compensate me for doing it, I would, if not, no dice. By the way, I very rarely carry off-duty.
    LOL... Here's a man that wants to be paid to do what he has a Right to do!!

    Its a shame that his greed could cost him or those he loves their life
    Do you realize that in about 40 years, we'll have thousands of old ladies running around with tattoos?
    --------------------------------------------------
    Common sense... the LEAST COMMON of all of the senses.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Why are hemorrhoids called "hemorrhoids" instead of "assteroids"?

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