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  1. #1
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    Bloodhounds and Missing children?

    I heard about a special type of blood hound that has so much scent power that the dog can track an individuals scent 10 days after the person has walked, or was in a car, under various conditions such as in conjested cities and even on a buizzy highways. My question is why arn't these dogs being utilized As Soon As Possible and more often to helplocate and find missing children?

    Thank You!

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    Dogs are often used immediately. We don't wait 10 days. The problem is they are usually put in cars by abductors and dogs can't follow the scent of cars.
    "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

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    Originally posted by retdetsgt
    Dogs are often used immediately. We don't wait 10 days. The problem is they are usually put in cars by abductors and dogs can't follow the scent of cars.
    Yes they can, according to a report I think I saw on Americas Most Wanted, a missing Denver, Colorado girl was tracked by a bloodhound 10 days after being abducted from a park in the city, the bloodhound tracked her scent from the vehicle, her remains were found out of city limits off the interstate along a dirt road.

    What breed of dog dose your department use for searches?

    Have you heard of the Jimmy Rice Foundation that offers free bloodhounds to Police Departments?
    http://www.jimmyryce.org/prevention/community.html

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    Oops, I was wrong it wasn't in Denver it was Englewood
    and the bloodhound got on the scent 4 days not 10 days after the abduction.

    According to this article a bloodhound named Yogi tracked the missing 5 year old 4 days after being abducted. Nevertheless it isvery impresive.
    Article
    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...983352,00.html

    Here's another article about it, and bloodhounds used to identify perps in lineups!
    http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/1996/jan964.txt

    The ALIE foundation was created by the parents of the missing girl, to aid LE in helping to find missing children
    http://www.alie.com/hounds.htm
    Last edited by sssalas; 04-13-2004 at 03:15 AM.

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    I'm not a dog handler, but I'm married to one. As it's been explained to me, these stories of dogs (many times bloodhounds) successfully completing these 'impossible' tracks are more myth than reality. In the case of the Englewood officer, which I believe is one of the longest confirmed cases of a days-old tracking, the conditions were near-perfect in terms of temperature, humidity, wind, etc.

    The use of dogs is still a very new science and there's a lot of bunk and misinformation out there. For example, during a recent nationally publicized search for a missing college student in our area, the local PD was searching high and low for a bloodhound to come in and do some tracking. Never mind that there were plenty of well-qualified non-bloodhound dogs in the area (both LE K9 and others) that were very capable of doing the same thing. But someone high enough up the chain of command felt they needed a bloodhound, so that's what they got. So they spent a couple of days letting the trail go cold while they worked to get an experienced bloodhound into the area to conduct the search.

    Another example. There's a woman in our state that works a bloodhound on a volunteer basis. The woman has made extraordinary claims about her dog's ability to track. As soon as word gets out about a potential missing person, she's on the phone to the family and anyone that will listen about how much help she can be. Yet she's never had a single find. When pressed about her training regimen by certain K9 officers who once worked with her, she actually said she and her dog "watch a lot of CSI."

    Dogs' abilities can be truly amazing, but they're seldom miraculous. To even get close to that level requires an incredible amount of training on both the part of the handler and the dog.
    Caution and worry never accomplished anything.

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    Not everything you hear on TV is true and sometimes not even close to the truth. The story on AMW about Yogi finding the little girl from Englewood, CO. was to say the least a little exaggerated. Not saying that it is impossible for a dog to track someone from a moving vehicle, but it is highly unlikely. The whole idea behind a bloodhoud's tracking ability is that the dog is walking with its nose to the ground collecting scent cells from the ground with the help of the loose skin around its jowls. This is kinda hard to do traveling in a vehicle at 5 to 10 MPH, with its nose three to four feet off the ground. Or, driving in the direction the handler thinks the victim or lost person would be headed and stopping occasionally to see if the dog can still pickup the scent. This method is the handler guessing, not the dog tracking!

    Bloodhound are excellant dogs for what they do. But they are not going to track people from moving cars, for the most part they are not going to be able to follow a ten day old track. There are just too many variables that enter into a track that old: weather, other people crossing the track, other animals that have crossed the track, vehicles that have crossed the track, the possibilities are endless.

    Television tries to glamorize police service canines. A lot of what we do is not that glamorious, so they have to add some things to the story when they do a story on police service or any working/service canine.

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    Originally posted by sssalas
    Yes they can, according to a report I think I saw on Americas Most Wanted, a missing Denver, Colorado girl was tracked by a bloodhound 10 days after being abducted from a park in the city, the bloodhound tracked her scent from the vehicle, her remains were found out of city limits off the interstate along a dirt road.

    What breed of dog dose your department use for searches?

    The dog tracked her while she was in the car? I seriously doubt that. They can track to and from a car, but not while the car is going down the road...

    We use German Shepards normally, but there are a group of Bloodhound owners who volunteer if we have a particularly difficult case.

    I did use a Bloodhound to track from where a dead body was found to the apt was she was killed. We used another dog and didn't tell the owner and got the same results. Based on that, we got a search warrant and an arrest and conviction.
    "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

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    Originally posted by retdetsgt
    The dog tracked her while she was in the car? I seriously doubt that. They can track to and from a car, but not while the car is going down the road...

    We use German Shepards normally, but there are a group of Bloodhound owners who volunteer if we have a particularly difficult case.

    I did use a Bloodhound to track from where a dead body was found to the apt was she was killed. We used another dog and didn't tell the owner and got the same results. Based on that, we got a search warrant and an arrest and conviction.
    Yes Yogi the bloodhound tracked 5 year old Alie when she was put in a car that took her about 14 miles away from the point of abduction. Alie's parents were so impressed by Yogi that they started The Alie Foundation that offers bloodhounds to Law Enforsement agencies nation wide.
    http://www.alie.com/hounds.htm
    (303) 662-8402
    ALIE Foundation
    P.O. Box 3673
    Englewood, CO
    80155

    Im glad you got a conviction! As far as I understand bloodhounds pick up a differant kind of scent than other dogs, and that they are regarded so reliable that bloodhounds have even been able to pick out perps in a line up, and that their evidence is so credible, it is admissible in court.

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    Originally posted by sssalas
    Yes Yogi the bloodhound tracked 5 year old Alie when she was put in a car that took her about 14 miles away from the point of abduction. Alie's parents were so impressed by Yogi that they started The Alie Foundation that offers bloodhounds to Law Enforsement agencies nation wide.
    I have to still agree with Dawgguy though.... It goes against common sense. A good tracking dog slobbers a lot to moisten the scent so it's stronger. All the dog has is the tires on the ground. A kid in a car is going to be just about impossible to pick up and I suspect the car was going a lot faster than 5 to 10 mph. A lot of things look better on T.V. I bet they took the dog to the park along with a lot of other possible places and the dog picked up the scent again. It's good T.V. to say the dog tracked her all the way there.

    Bloodhounds do some amazing things and I'm not being critical of them, but there are limits.
    "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

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    [Getting up on my soap box] I handled bloodhounds for over 10 years (own a retired one) and can tell you that they are amazing animals. Bloodhounds were "built" to track. Although other dogs can track, if you have a proven bloodhound available dont even waste the time to put another dog on the track. As far a television shows go, you do not run more than 1 dog at a time on a trail and I have never had my dogs or seen others howl during a track. Of course you have to train, train, train and in realistic conditions. You also need to know your dogs limitations (as well as yours) I would never give false claims about my dogs. I would not want to be the one responsible for putting someone's life in danger because I claimed that my dog was the best etc and then could not "put up" so to speak when someone in great need called for my help. Simply put, they are the best animal for that specific job if they (and you) are trained correctly. I'll get off my soap box now but if anyone wants more information PM me.

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    Originally posted by kirch
    I'm not a dog handler, but I'm married to one. As it's been explained to me, these stories of dogs (many times bloodhounds) successfully completing these 'impossible' tracks are more myth than reality. In the case of the Englewood officer, which I believe is one of the longest confirmed cases of a days-old tracking, the conditions were near-perfect in terms of temperature, humidity, wind, etc.

    The use of dogs is still a very new science and there's a lot of bunk and misinformation out there. For example, during a recent nationally publicized search for a missing college student in our area, the local PD was searching high and low for a bloodhound to come in and do some tracking. Never mind that there were plenty of well-qualified non-bloodhound dogs in the area (both LE K9 and others) that were very capable of doing the same thing. But someone high enough up the chain of command felt they needed a bloodhound, so that's what they got. So they spent a couple of days letting the trail go cold while they worked to get an experienced bloodhound into the area to conduct the search.

    Another example. There's a woman in our state that works a bloodhound on a volunteer basis. The woman has made extraordinary claims about her dog's ability to track. As soon as word gets out about a potential missing person, she's on the phone to the family and anyone that will listen about how much help she can be. Yet she's never had a single find. When pressed about her training regimen by certain K9 officers who once worked with her, she actually said she and her dog "watch a lot of CSI."

    Dogs' abilities can be truly amazing, but they're seldom miraculous. To even get close to that level requires an incredible amount of training on both the part of the handler and the dog.
    Thank you for sharing your story. I think the points you made are exactly why Police Departments should be the ones training and handleing these specialized dogs, and wouldn't have to wait for a trail to go cold and can imediately get bloodhounds on the trail of any missing person as soon as possible.

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    Originally posted by retdetsgt
    I have to still agree with Dawgguy though.... It goes against common sense. A good tracking dog slobbers a lot to moisten the scent so it's stronger. All the dog has is the tires on the ground.

    Are you saying that bloodhounds dont slobber? You havent been around to many of them if you believe that. Besides tracking, slobbering is what they do best. They also have their own special stink to them, no matter how much you wash them. As far as the tires on the ground, do you think that if you are in a car, with all windows rolled up, that your scent does not have any way to get out of the car? If this were true you would not be able to smell things outside of your car while you were inside of the car. They can track people in cars, not only have I seen it done with other bloodhounds but I have done it with mine. Still, the freshness of the trail and the weather conditions etc do have a great deal to do with the dog being sucessful (along with the ever so important training).

    Kirch, Did the bloodhound find the person?
    Last edited by Rita; 04-13-2004 at 06:18 PM.

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    Originally posted by Rita
    Are you saying that bloodhounds dont slobber? You havent been around to many of them if you believe that. Besides tracking, slobbering is what they do best. They also have their own special stink to them, no matter how much you wash them. As far as the tires on the ground, do you think that if you are in a car, with all windows rolled up, that your scent does not have any way to get out of the car? If this were true you would not be able to smell things outside of your car while you were inside of the car. They can track people in cars, not only have I seen it done with other bloodhounds but I have done it with mine. Still, the freshness of the trail and the weather conditions etc do have a great deal to do with the dog being sucessful (along with the ever so important training).

    Kirch, Did the bloodhound find the person?
    Hi Rita

    Thank You For Posting!

    Im so glad that it is true, and not mearly a ficticious story, or a rare occurance for a bloodhound to track humans in cars.

    Ive heard of some handlers making it a point to train their bloodhounds to track in differant weather conditions, that is so cool.

    I sure wish that every police department had bloodhounds to help them track people in all differant kinds of situatiions, it's such a worthy cause that I can easily see even the public helping with the funding of such programs. As anyone even common criminals fear for their children being abducted, and would want the best dogs available, and might even be a way to bridge challenging crime infested comunities.

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    I am lucky to live in an area where our "head honcho" believes in bloodhounds. Some people do not see them as real "police dogs" and in certain aspects they are not, but as I said before, when it comes to tracking, they are the dog for the job. PM me if you want more info on the things that I have personally see these animals do.

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    Originally posted by Rita
    Are you saying that bloodhounds dont slobber? You havent been around to many of them if you believe that. Besides tracking, slobbering is what they do best.
    No, I didn't say that. They slobber better than you read perhaps... Read what you cut and pasted again...

    And I definitely know they stink... We had one our PR guy used as Off. McGruff. The SOB transported the damn dog in my detective car once on my day off. I had to send the car to be detailed to get the stink out!
    Last edited by retdetsgt; 04-13-2004 at 11:12 PM.
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    Except for tracking people, slobbering is what bloodhounds do best. Their slobbering is what makes them good trackers.

    In the case in Englewood, CO. the bloodhound was used to track a child that was abducted from her home. Ten days later the dog was tracking this child down a road that is used by thousands of cars traveling at 60+ MPH daily. The dog was not walking the track. The majority of this track, it was being transported in a vehicle. Bloodhounds are good, but that kind of tracking is a little out there. FYI, the dog did not track up to the body. At the time the girl was found the dog was about five miles from the location where she was dumped.

    As for every police dept. should have a bloodhound. That would be totally impractical. The number of hours that have to be devoted to training and maintaining a good bloodhound team, for the most part would not or could not be justified by the number of callouts, or utilizations the team would have during the year. For that reason, most of the police agencies in CO. that have had bloodhound teams in the past have gone away from them and are using their patrol canines to fill the voids.

    Like I said before don't believe everythng you see on TV and especially TV police shows.

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    Originally posted by dawgguy


    As for every police dept. should have a bloodhound. That would be totally impractical. The number of hours that have to be devoted to training and maintaining a good bloodhound team, for the most part would not or could not be justified by the number of callouts, or utilizations the team would have during the year.
    Amen! Fortunately, we have a group of bloodhound enthusiasts who love to come out when we call them... They work for free just to show off their dogs and to give them some practical exercise. We have had some outrageous claims made by a couple of owners about what their dogs could do... None proved to be true.

    But we use them probably once a year or less. Our regular police dogs can do most of the tracking we need done.
    "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

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    Originally posted by dawgguy
    Except for tracking people, slobbering is what bloodhounds do best. Their slobbering is what makes them good trackers.

    In the case in Englewood, CO. the bloodhound was used to track a child that was abducted from her home. Ten days later the dog was tracking this child down a road that is used by thousands of cars traveling at 60+ MPH daily. The dog was not walking the track. The majority of this track, it was being transported in a vehicle. Bloodhounds are good, but that kind of tracking is a little out there. FYI, the dog did not track up to the body. At the time the girl was found the dog was about five miles from the location where she was dumped.

    As for every police dept. should have a bloodhound. That would be totally impractical. The number of hours that have to be devoted to training and maintaining a good bloodhound team, for the most part would not or could not be justified by the number of callouts, or utilizations the team would have during the year. For that reason, most of the police agencies in CO. that have had bloodhound teams in the past have gone away from them and are using their patrol canines to fill the voids.

    Like I said before don't believe everythng you see on TV and especially TV police shows.
    According to the report Yogi's handler was resting Yogi during the night, and other officers searching the area discovered the body of little Alie. Yogi pointed officers in the right direction on that dirt road, that would have otherwise been impossible for them to find.

    Do you not also pay taxes?
    Why are a select few generous private ctitizens footing the entire bill for searches of missing people?

    German shepards are great attack dogs, but the bloodhound outweighs all dog breeds when it comes to searching for an individual. A bloodhound cannot be trained to be an attack dog, but Iam sure that a well maintained bloodhound can help the department in many other situations besides just missing people.
    In any investigation would you not want the best tool for that paticular job?

    Are you telling me that if your child was missing would NOT want a bloodhound on the trail?

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    Police agencies use volunteer search and rescue crews, usually civilians, for the same reason they use reserve officers. To supplement their forces and to save money. The agencies for the most part like it, because it saves them money and they can allocate their sworn officers to other duties. The volunteers like it because they are providing a service to the community and as Ret. stated they can show off their dogs.

    It has been years since I priced a quality bloodhound, but I'm guessing one sells for $3,000 to $5,000. That price plus outfitting a vehicle, sending a handler to school, that handler's pay and benefits while in school, not having the handler on the street during that time frame, the cost of training after the handler returns the the street, thirty to forty hours monthly, for at least two officers (someone has to hide). The cost of putting a kennel at the handlers home, the cost of dog food, the medical cost related to having a bloodhound, the cost of having the team certified each year by a reputable police bloodhound organization. All these things add up for a dog you are going to deploy on an actual track six to twelve times a year. A police agency can save all that money by having volunteers do it. I have absolutely no problems with bloodhounds and would like to see more police dept. have them, but a small to medium size agency cannot usually justify the cost related to them.

    As for having bloodhound detect things other than people! You have apparently not been around many bloodhounds. They are made for bascially one thing,long searches, i.e. finding people dead or alive. They would be of little use searching a crime scene for evidence, basically because their slobber may contaminate the evidence once they found it. Because of their basic nature they could not be trained to located drugs, explosives, accelerants or whatever very well. They just don't have the drives in them to keep them focused or on task for those kinds of searches.

    Also, could you please change your phrasing a little on the German Shepherds. Police service canines are not attack dogs, it really gets me when people refer to them as such. They are patrol canines. They do not attack, they are trained to respond to a stimuli, i.e. an attack on their handler or when so order to respond by their handler. As for bloodhound being training in protection, they can be trained to do anything any other police service canine can be trained to do in protection work. By nature though they just don't have the drives necessary to do the work well. You can train any dog to do that type of work. And yes, a bloodhound will bite, I've been bitten by one.

    Once again don't believe everything you see on TV.

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    I agree that, despite their usefulness to LE, it's just not practical to have every department set up with their own K9, much less their own bloodhound.

    My wife belongs to a team of volunteers that specialize in K9 SAR. No department around here would ever pay to set up a team with similar capabilities -- there's just not enough need on the individual department level. They make themselves available to LE and emergency service departments throughout WI & northern IL. The group was started by and is made up primarily of volunteers who are either active LE, fire, EMS or are married to people in those fields. As such, they follow the same kinds of training guidelines you would find in those professions. And they only go into a search after being officially requested by an emergency service agency. Their goal is to bring professional-level standards to what is a fairly unregulated area of emergency services.

    Sure, I'm tooting the family horn a bit -- so sue me.
    Caution and worry never accomplished anything.

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    We may have one or two legitimate missing child (usually just wandered into another room and fell asleep rather than abducted) a year. This hardly establishes a need for taxpayer supported dogs, equipment, staff and training. If a private organization is out there, we'll use them, but for the most part we'll use the state prison's dogs.

    Now, my defense of GSD's. No, they're not "attack" dogs. They're not trained to attack, per se, but rather follow commands. If they were true attack dogs, no one could get near them.

    The biggest assets of the GSD is their intelligence, temperment and loyalty. This makes them highly trainable and well suited for the job. They can also track and detect scent. Not as well as bloodhounds, but still quite well. They also have a very long attention span and tend to be "task oriented". In other words, once they set their mind to something, they do it.

    It's the "attack" part that people use to help classify this excellent breed as an agressive breed and that irks the **** out of me.

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by retdetsgt
    [B]No, I didn't say that. They slobber better than you read perhaps... Read what you cut and pasted again...

    retdetsgt--in my haste to read and post I did not "read" your post properly. On that issue I stand corrected. As far as my reading ability vs a bloodhounds slobering ability, even a speed reader or someone who can read an article and remember exactly what it said would not even be in the competition against a slobbering bloodhound.

    Kirch--your wife is a saint for the volunteer work that she does and for being a part of a team that has strict training guidelines. I'm sure that she has come across many people who cant live up to their claims, which has to ability to make "real" teams be lumped in to the same category. Tell her to keep up the good work, we need more people in this world like her.

    dawgguy---We pick our dogs "un-trained". It has been our expierence that training your own dog works much better. And they do not have to be expensive dog either. As a matter of fact, my best dog came from a lady that lived in a small trailer. She bought him as a puppy because he was so "cute". Well cute started to grow up and started slobbering and stinking and she decided that the slobbering and stinking outweighed the cuteness. I got him when he was about 6 months old. She only wanted $300.00 (and he's AKC). I got lucky that he had the "knack for it". Otherwise, we try to get them at a younger age and when we go to pick one out we watch them for awhile and play with them to see if we can spot one that is more atuned to using his/her nose as well as other things that we look for. Still, the other expenses you mentioned are a concern.

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    Originally posted by dawgguy
    Police agencies use volunteer search and rescue crews, usually civilians, for the same reason they use reserve officers. To supplement their forces and to save money. The agencies for the most part like it, because it saves them money and they can allocate their sworn officers to other duties. The volunteers like it because they are providing a service to the community and as Ret. stated they can show off their dogs.

    It has been years since I priced a quality bloodhound, but I'm guessing one sells for $3,000 to $5,000. That price plus outfitting a vehicle, sending a handler to school, that handler's pay and benefits while in school, not having the handler on the street during that time frame, the cost of training after the handler returns the the street, thirty to forty hours monthly, for at least two officers (someone has to hide). The cost of putting a kennel at the handlers home, the cost of dog food, the medical cost related to having a bloodhound, the cost of having the team certified each year by a reputable police bloodhound organization. All these things add up for a dog you are going to deploy on an actual track six to twelve times a year. A police agency can save all that money by having volunteers do it. I have absolutely no problems with bloodhounds and would like to see more police dept. have them, but a small to medium size agency cannot usually justify the cost related to them.

    As for having bloodhound detect things other than people! You have apparently not been around many bloodhounds. They are made for bascially one thing,long searches, i.e. finding people dead or alive. They would be of little use searching a crime scene for evidence, basically because their slobber may contaminate the evidence once they found it. Because of their basic nature they could not be trained to located drugs, explosives, accelerants or whatever very well. They just don't have the drives in them to keep them focused or on task for those kinds of searches.

    Hi!
    I don't know about bloodhounds, and is why Im asking questions here.
    While it is great that there are volenteeres that dedicate their lives, time, and money to searches, for an added edge large police deparments or a cluster of small departments with their own bloodhound I think would be an added benifit to the communities they serve. You have made some good valid points, however I have a hard time puting a price on a human life, especially a child's. According to the ALIE Foundation they offer bloodhounds to police departments for only 75.00

    ALIE Foundation
    P.O. Box 3673
    Englewood CO
    80155

    email: ALIE@quest.net
    phone: (303) 662-8402

    Once on officer is trained he/she also in turn train others to train bloodhounds, eliviating that expense of retraining.

    A bloodhound handler can become a maskot and spokesperson for the local areas Amber Alert system, and he/she could also encourage community involvement with local fundraisers, bakesales, events at parks etc. to pay for licencing fees, dog food etc.

    Long Term benifits to the comunity I can see outweighing short term finnancial strains on a department, or a cluster of small departments working togather to acheive a common goal. Such as public seminars to increace the awarness about Amber Alerts and child safety. I think all too often police are viewed as the ticket givers, and in poor neighborrhoods the bad guys, taking dope dealing ma and pop to prison, etc. And so children in these neighborhoods are not only challenged economically, but also their perceptions are warped about law enforsement positive intentions, because they have no positive role modle. However if children were aware that police really do care about their welfare, the divide between the two may narrow in time. Just a thought anyway.

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    Originally posted by sssalas


    A bloodhound handler can become a maskot and spokesperson for the local areas Amber Alert system, and he/she could also encourage community involvement with local fundraisers, bakesales, events at parks etc. to pay for licencing fees, dog food etc.

    Long Term benifits to the comunity I can see outweighing short term finnancial strains on a department, or a cluster of small departments working togather to acheive a common goal. Such as public seminars to increace the awarness about Amber Alerts and child safety. I think all too often police are viewed as the ticket givers, and in poor neighborrhoods the bad guys, taking dope dealing ma and pop to prison, etc. And so children in these neighborhoods are not only challenged economically, but also their perceptions are warped about law enforsement positive intentions, because they have no positive role modle. However if children were aware that police really do care about their welfare, the divide between the two may narrow in time. Just a thought anyway.
    As stated earlier, a regular police dog can do a pretty good job of searching and is capable of doing other things too. A bloodhound is a hands over better searcher, but is a one trick pony. We are usually quite successful with our German Shepards for tracking.. If necessary, we can get a bloodhound in. But don't underestimate the tracking ability of other dogs.

    As far as community relations, a bloodhound is hardly going to change the public's perception of a police dept. We did use a bloodhound in the Off. McGruff program years ago, but he stunk so badly, he was hardly a good representative of the dept. They look cute, but as Rita and others have said, they slobber horribly and just aren't good pets. If you take one in a classroom, that room is going to stink afterward. As I said in an earlier post, I damn near had to have my police car fumigated to get the dog smell out after it was used to transport a bloodhound around town.

    The relationship between police and poor neighborhoods are not going to be solved nor even slightly impacted by a dog, believe me.... Most of the programs you talked about are being done by school resource officers now. Again, one dog is not going to significantly impact anything re: Amber Alerts or whatever.

    Just about all police depts are crunched budgetwise. It would be a poor use of funds to buy, train and maintain a dog that is only going to be used a few times a year. Apparently Rita's dept is able to utilize them enough to make it worthwhile, but my Portland, Oregon dept needs one so rarely that it would be a waste. Especially since we can tap volunteer bloodhound orgs. who love to come and work their dogs for nothing.
    "Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid." John Wayne

  25. #25
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    Kirch, do me a favor? Ask your wife what she thinks of the (seemingly well substantiated) cases where dogs occasionally show up to their families' new homes hundreds (and I think, even thousands) of miles away, a year or two after being left accidentally, etc. It seems to happen sometimes but I can't imagine how. Thanks.
    No longer ignoring anybody here, since that psycho known as "Josey Wales" finally got the boot after being outed as a LE imposter by B&G978. Nice job.

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