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  1. #1
    Sleepy sixpanel's Avatar
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    Federal Gun Permit

    We had a missionary family come to our church recently. While speaking with them at dinner, the wife informed us that her dad was a cop in New York for years. She also stated that in New York, you better have a federal gun permit if you are going to be carrying and not a law enforcement officer. Have any of you ever heard of a FEDERAL gun permit?? I'm a cop and I have never heard of that.

  2. #2
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    I have. A US Park Police officer told me all about it. Its called being a Deputy US Marshal when not actually working for the USMS. Last I heard it was either Boxer or Feinstien who had one, after her people found out that after grabbing their guns she had a CCW in CA. She dumped the CCW and had someone at the Fed level bend the rules.

    In other words, the person didnt know what they were talking about AFAIK.

    Heres a random rhetorical question: If states have to respect other states drivers licenses, why isnt it the same with LEO status or CCWs?
    Im currently ignoring ghostsix, Khalid72 & wcucj

  3. #3
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    I have heard of a FFL...Federal firearms license. I thought it pertained to guns dealers. I know you need a FFl to send and recieve guns in the mail or to ship them. If i am not mistaken you can also own automatic weapons with a FFL. Maybe in N.Y you need one of these to get a CCW. Not being or living in NY I dont know for sure. Hope some of this helps...
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  4. #4
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    When I worked in Fairfax Co VA with the Civil Disturbance Unit we went to D.C. to help with crowd control at innaguration and for the IMF protests. When we got down there the US Marshall for the District of Columbia swore us in as Deputy Marshalls for the period we were assisting in the city. So I have been a Dep. US Marshall. For a few hours. We had full powers of arrest and other law enforcement power in the city. That covered us to make any arrests and to carry our weapons and use them.

    Also guys who were on Task Forces up there got the same thing so they could work with the Feds and cross into MD and DC. I imagine any task force guys get this to work with the Feds especially if they live near state lines.
    It may be a summons to you but it's therapy for me.

  5. #5
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    FFLs pertain to the buying and selling of firearms, not transport, carry or ownership in the individual sense. Also, for automatic weapons youd need a tax stamp from the ATF. Usually most states nix them unless youre in the likes of AZ or NV where you actually have a chance. To buy/sell full auto's you would need a class 3 FFL.
    Im currently ignoring ghostsix, Khalid72 & wcucj

  6. #6
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    There's no such thing as a "Federal Gun Permit." I live in New York City. Law stipulates in order to carry a firearm interstate or into New York City one must be an L.E.O. who is in PERFORMANCE of theirDut.

    Those L.E.O.'s who are EMPLOYED by the Federal Government have the ability to carry interstate On and Off Duty.
    An FFL or Federal Firearms Licene has NOTHING to do with carrying across state lines. There are several Different types of FFL's. Each one deals with the type of firearms you as a Federal Firearms Dealers may PURCHASE and RESELL. Once in possession of an FFL the ATF "frowns" upon those dealers who use their licenses in connection with "personal firearms purchases" which would not be otherwise permissible. It doesn't have any bearing on the "ownership and carrying interstate."

    In New York City any law abiding citizen may apply for a CCW. There is NO CONNECTION or REQUIREMENT for the possesion of an FFL.

  7. #7
    STORM THE CASTLE! squad51's Avatar
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    I have as part of my creds a card saying "authorized to carry a firearm" and its from the federal goverment, maybe someone saw something like that and got confused....I have also seen when I was in the military authorization to carry and or transport weapons accross statelines, through airports...all kinds of stuff.
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  8. #8
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    Federal Gun Permit.

    Hope this helps. Being sworn in as a Deputy U.S. Marshal gives you all the authorization you need regarding carrying a firearm anywhere needed in the completion of your assignment. A military courier also has all the authorization needed relative to his/her assignment.A Federal Firearms License is that issued to a firearms dealer,and is not an authorization to carry.New York has very strict laws regarding firearms carry,even by out of state officers.Very good point regarding reciprocity of DLs and CCW permits. I Wouldn't hold my breath on some of the Eastern States. No offense,just fact.

  9. #9
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    I've never heard of a federal carry permit, although it may be something the military provides certain personnel who need to be armed. Generally, when the federal government wants to give someone authority to carry federally who does not already have it, they either deputize them as a U.S. Marshal or as a Task Force Agent with some other agency, i.e. DEA or FBI. So, although it is issued just as a carry permit, you would never know, because to look at it, you would think they were a federal agent.

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    Group 29, in fact you ARE a Federal Agent. I have been cross designated as a "Special Deputy U.S. Marshall", and in fact you have all the authority of a U.S. Marshall. This is how they arm Judges/U.S. Attorneys who are threatened.
    There is no "Federal Gun Permit", beyond the phoney badges sold through the mail. There is no legal provision for such a thing.
    "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
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  11. #11
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    The question posed was in regard to a Federal Gun Permit - NONE EXISTS!

    The question also referred to New York City I've indicated any law abiding citizen may apply for a Pistol Permit whether "Concealed Carry" or a "Premises Permit." The only hinderance would be a criminal background.

    An Officer of The Federal Governnment may carry interstate. These include but are not limited to :

    Federal Police Officers
    Ferderal Correction Officers
    F.B.I.
    Border Patrol
    Department Of Defense
    Drug Enforcement Agent
    C.I.A.
    Secret Service
    United States Marshalls

    Consult U.S. Government Law Enforcement Jobs for a complete listing of Law Enforcement Personnel.

    *Veterans Adminstation Police Officers may have a restriction when carrying off duty interstate. Consult your Departments policy concerning this issue.

  12. #12
    Group 29
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    Originally posted by Sleuth
    Group 29, in fact you ARE a Federal Agent. I have been cross designated as a "Special Deputy U.S. Marshall", and in fact you have all the authority of a U.S. Marshall. This is how they arm Judges/U.S. Attorneys who are threatened.
    There is no "Federal Gun Permit", beyond the phoney badges sold through the mail. There is no legal provision for such a thing.
    You're not reading what I am saying. Of course, when you are deputized as a deputy U.S. Marshal you have full federal law enforcement powers. What I was saying, maybe not clearly, was that such deputizations are also used as "de facto" gun permits for U.S. Government personnel who need to be armed, whether or not they need to have law enforcement authority. If you are around USMS Deputy Marshals, ask them about it. I'm sure most of the old timers have seen it done a few times.

    If you stay with the federal government long enough, you will probably be surprised at how much weird or unusual stuff you see done from time to time.

  13. #13
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    OK, we just have two different ways to say the same thing. And I saw plenty of wierd stuff during my 27 years as a Federal Agent - some I still can't believe.

    The bottom line: There is no "Federal Gun Permit".
    "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invisiblecop
    The question posed was in regard to a Federal Gun Permit - NONE EXISTS!

    The question also referred to New York City I've indicated any law abiding citizen may apply for a Pistol Permit whether "Concealed Carry" or a "Premises Permit." The only hinderance would be a criminal background.

    An Officer of The Federal Governnment may carry interstate. These include but are not limited to :

    Federal Police Officers
    Ferderal Correction Officers
    F.B.I.
    Border Patrol
    Department Of Defense
    Drug Enforcement Agent
    C.I.A.
    Secret Service
    United States Marshalls

    Consult U.S. Government Law Enforcement Jobs for a complete listing of Law Enforcement Personnel.

    *Veterans Adminstation Police Officers may have a restriction when carrying off duty interstate. Consult your Departments policy concerning this issue.
    CIA Agents are considered an "officer of the federal government" and allowed to carry?

  15. #15
    Form of Member GoldBadge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invisiblecop
    The question posed was in regard to a Federal Gun Permit - NONE EXISTS!

    The question also referred to New York City I've indicated any law abiding citizen may apply for a Pistol Permit whether "Concealed Carry" or a "Premises Permit." The only hinderance would be a criminal background.

    An Officer of The Federal Governnment may carry interstate. These include but are not limited to :

    Federal Police Officers
    Ferderal Correction Officers
    F.B.I.
    Border Patrol
    Department Of Defense
    Drug Enforcement Agent
    C.I.A.
    Secret Service
    United States Marshalls

    Consult U.S. Government Law Enforcement Jobs for a complete listing of Law Enforcement Personnel.

    *Veterans Adminstation Police Officers may have a restriction when carrying off duty interstate. Consult your Departments policy concerning this issue.
    I'll repeat what some other posters said, There is no such thing as a federal gun permit . You can either carry as a part of your job or you can't. Some feds with limited statutory authority or locals part of a task force may be deputized, but that 's about the size of it.

    Invisiblecop, your list is a little misleading. Very few (almost none) CIA personnel can carry weapons in the U.S.

    Department of Defense? Do you mean the military or NCIS and DCIS?

    The authority of Federal correctional officers to carry on duty is extremely limited, i.e., prison perimeter posts or escorting prisoners on a community trip. If they carry off duty, it's under HR-218 and they have no more authority in that regard than any local cop carrying under that statute.

    Most "federal police officers" such as the VA have strict policies about carrying firearms on and off duty. Some can only carry on duty and must turn in their weapon at the end of their tours.

    By and large federal agents who can carry firearms at all times posess credentials that will say something like that. Mine say something to the effect that I am a federal law enforcement officer authorized to make arrests, carry firearms, etc., etc.

    There are far more officers/agents that can carry than are mentioned in the above list (ATF, OIG's, ICE, DSS, etc.) so consult with the appropriate authorities before deciding whether or not an individual is lawfully carrying under federal jurisdiction.

  16. #16
    We Patrol Night and Day FNA209's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invisiblecop
    I live in New York City. Law stipulates in order to carry a firearm interstate or into New York City one must be an L.E.O. who is in PERFORMANCE of theirDut.
    Any LEO can carry in NYC as allowed by HR218 (the LEOSA).

    On duty- off duty.
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  17. #17
    Forum Member Dinosaur32's Avatar
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    Part of the confusion is that New York State confers STATE Peace Officer status on a laundry list of federal LEO positions (see Section 2.15 of NYS Criminal Procedure Law). This allows them to enforce State laws. their ability to carry firearms remains under the control of the Federal agancy they are employed by.

  18. #18
    Forum Member SA13's Avatar
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    There is absolutely no such thing as a federal permit to carry a concealed firearm.

    Federal LEOs, if they have statutory authority to carry firearms, AND agency policy allows off-duty carry, may carry a firearm.

    State and local LEOs, and some federal LEOs without statutory authority to carry firearms, may be Deputized as Special Deputy US Marshals, and may carry a firearm. This is most commonly done for a handful of federal LEOs who work for the few Office of the Inspector General Agencies that do not have statutory LE authority (most OIGs have statutory authority), and state and local LEOs who are assigned to the various federal run task forces.

    NY does have firearms permits, and concealed carry permits, but they are VERY difficult to get.

    The person you had over to dinner is FOS.

  19. #19
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    Actually, any New York certified police officer, whether on or off duty, may carry a firearm in NYC. If off-duty, the firearm must be concealed on your person and not visible.

    If you are a private citizen, you must have a pistol permit issued by the NYPD pistol section to carry. If you have a permit issued outside of NYC, you must have it endorsed by them to carry in NYC.

    You also may drive through any portion of NYC with a firearm lawfully possessed, such as, rifle and long guns, if you are a private citizen as long as you don't stop, it's in a locked box, and the ammunition and gun are kept seperately.

    The added bonus for cops now, regardless of where you were certified, is HR 218. This allows cops to carry concealed any where in the US under certain conditions, which you need to look up. It also applies to retired members in good-standing as well who keep there qualifications up.




    Quote Originally Posted by Invisiblecop
    " I live in New York City. Law stipulates in order to carry a firearm interstate or into New York City one must be an L.E.O. who is in PERFORMANCE of their Duty.

    In New York City any law abiding citizen may apply for a CCW. There is NO CONNECTION or REQUIREMENT for the possesion of an FFL.

  20. #20
    Forum Member Shoot N Scoot's Avatar
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    Cross Deputized.

    Quote Originally Posted by Group 29
    What I was saying, maybe not clearly, was that such deputizations are also used as "de facto" gun permits for U.S. Government personnel who need to be armed, whether or not they need to have law enforcement authority.
    This actually does happen. Though the Dept of Defense issues federal agent creds, there have also been situations that members of the armed forces have been issued Deputy US Marshal identification simply to allow them to carry weapons unhindered. Specifically I am refering to the folks known as 1st SOG-Delta. You can verify that via the book written by the origional founder or if you know one ask them.

    As for the lovable Barbra I have also heard that story, but never was able to confirm it while stationed in DC.
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  21. #21
    Forum Member Fastsheriff's Avatar
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    Actually House Bill 218 passed last year allows any Law Enfocement Officer to carry any where in the United States. You have to comply with the requirements but you can cary while off-duty.
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  22. #22
    Forum Member TXLEO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixpanel
    We had a missionary family come to our church recently. While speaking with them at dinner, the wife informed us that her dad was a cop in New York for years. She also stated that in New York, you better have a federal gun permit if you are going to be carrying and not a law enforcement officer. Have any of you ever heard of a FEDERAL gun permit?? I'm a cop and I have never heard of that.
    No such animal. Any Active/retired Officer can legally carry via HR218 in any state in the Union provided they keep up with their qualifications.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitromt
    CIA Agents are considered an "officer of the federal government" and allowed to carry?
    The CIA is not a law enforcement agency. Moreover, the CIA is not permitted to conduct intelligence operations within the United States (yes, I know, but this is the textbook rule). The CIA does have employees with specific law enforcement powers, called Security and Protection Officers, who may carry firearms anywhere in the country in the discharge of their duties. Most of these, as their title suggests, are involved in the security of CIA facilities and the protection of CIA personnel. For instance, the Director of the CIA is most likely driven to and from work by a CIA S&P officer, and you can bet he or she is armed.

    The "secret agent" types, which is who I think you are referring to, are members of the Clandestine Service and generally operate outside of the United States. If they carry firearms there, and they get caught, they can be at the mercy of the local government authorities. Of course, they choose and train these folks to be the kind of people that no one notices, and the idea is that they don't get noticed, with a firearm or otherwise.

    I'm sure that anyone in the CIA, other than an S&P officer, who had a legit need to carry a firearm could get one of those special USMS commissions.
    Tim Dees, now writing as a plain old forum member, his superpowers lost to an encounter with gold kryptonite.

  24. #24
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    Does HR 218 include Washington DC? The verbage of the law is somewhat vague.
    "I carry a gun, because a cop is too heavy..."

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  25. #25
    Forum Member MountainCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolvk
    Does HR 218 include Washington DC? The verbage of the law is somewhat vague.
    Yes. The LEOSA includes Washington, DC.

    Go to http://www.fop.net/legislative/issues/hr218/index.shtml and click on the FAQ link. The FOP has the best explanation of the LEOSA I've seen.
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