Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Like Tree15Likes

Thread: FYI tannerite is apparently now illegal in CA

  1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    4,352

    FYI tannerite is apparently now illegal in CA

    http://www.riversidesheriff.org/press/seb13-0818.asp


    Details:

    On Sunday, August 18, 2013, around 11:00 AM, a firefighters from Cal Fire heard explosions very close to them as they were extinguishing a small brush fire in a remote area near El Toro Road, Lake Elsinore. The firefighters contacted several people who were shooting exploding targets and subsequently notified the Riverside Sheriff's Department. The Hazardous Device Team responded and conducted an investigation due to the presence of illegal explosives.

    One person was found to be in possession of several exploding targets. These items typically consist of at least two parts, and they become a sensitive and dangerous explosive when mixed. Exploding targets are illegal to possess in California before they are mixed, as well as after the components are mixed together.

    Jeremy Ingram, 38 years old, of Menifee, was arrested and booked into Southwest Detention Center for possession of bomb making components (18720 PC), and possession of a destructive device (18710(a) PC), both charges are felonies.

    The public is encouraged to avoid purchasing, handling, or using exploding targets. For questions about exploding targets, the public can contact the Hazardous Device Team at (951) 955-1700.

  2. #2
    Molon Labe
    LA DEP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    9,187
    Looks like RDO is getting 'creative' with reading the CPC.....if the suspect isn't convicted of the charge(s) this will cost the taxpayers of Riverside a large chunk of $$$$
    HI629 likes this.
    The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

    "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

    "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    751
    I have always heard that it was a grey area at best, and to err on the side of not having it around, so I never messed with it. Guess we will find out how grey that area is now.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    103
    Wow, felonies for a guy shooting at an object that was designed to be used as such. Good luck proving any sort of intent to use this "bomb making materia"l for anything nefarious. I bet they seized his guns for good measure as well.

    And we wonder why respect for law enforcement sucks...

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    HI629's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Posts
    1,955
    I've shot at those targets. They're a lot of fun and a great way to get immediate feedback that you've hit what you're shooting at.

  6. #6
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    736
    Easy fix. Just buy instant cold packs and some Al powder from a paint store. Then you are shooting cold packs and not Tannerite Same friggin thing. Lets worry about something that is not a problem and ignore the crap that is out there.
    Ut humiliter opinor

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,470
    Here's the problem with tannerite and possessing it in CA. From a legal standpoint, it is NOT illegal to possess the binary parts. It is also not illegal to combine them for your targets. However, many many people have been arrested for the exact same thing these guys were arrested for. People have also been arested for just having the separate components, with it being called constructive possession of a DD. I don't know how many have been convicted, but I'm sure it's probably happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by ddurkof View Post
    Easy fix. Just buy instant cold packs and some Al powder from a paint store. Then you are shooting cold packs and not Tannerite Same friggin thing. Lets worry about something that is not a problem and ignore the crap that is out there.
    The problem with that is you get the same charge. If a person can be arrested under a DD charge for putting dry ice in a 2 liter bottle with water, they could certainly get charged for the ice pack trick. If it goes boom it's a DD.
    Last edited by JustAJ; 08-20-2013 at 10:08 AM.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    4,352
    Tannerite is providing legal counsel for Mr. Ingram.
    HI629 likes this.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    South FL
    Posts
    636
    I hope a good lawyer will make this disappear and go further with it.

    Can't stand made up bs charges just to 'arrest' the guy. big pet peeve of mine when enforced by supervisors.

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    2,520
    Very happy to hear that Tannerite is providing him legal support!

    However despite my strong believe in the 2nd Amendment I have to say that I cannot understand why Tannerite would be any more legal than other explosives:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DK_pw2tq2Q

    I mean those guys in the middle east are going to all that trouble making IEDs, but here in the US you can just order your explosives online

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    South Sioux City, NE
    Posts
    4,489
    Take an improvised explosives course designed for emergency responders and you can buy all you need at WalMart to make explosives, each component by it'self is not regulated, and if mixed can not be transported and must be used on site, in quantities limited by local and federal regulations.

    In that video you posted of the car. Could you go buy a 20lb propane tank designed for BBQ grill. Put it in a car with the windows up, open the valve wait for the car to fill with propane, and then ignite. Should propane be regulated as an expolsive? What would a 55 gallon barrel of gasoline due to a car?

    Should we regulate ownership of items, or should be regulate the improper use of such items?
    Last edited by David Hineline; 08-21-2013 at 10:55 PM.

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    1,470
    Quote Originally Posted by Fëanor View Post
    However despite my strong believe in the 2nd Amendment I have to say that I cannot understand why Tannerite would be any more legal than other explosives:
    Should we outlaw chemistry? There are any number of various everyday items that, when combined, tend to go boom, either immediately or with a little help. Making a thingillegal/unavailable only causes a person intent on doing harm to use another thing that has the same effect. Despite OK City, I can still go buy the same exact ingredients TM used, because it's all about intent, which cannot be regulated.

  13. #13
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    2,520
    All of the items you guys are referring to have their own useful purpose. Tannerite is nothing more than an explosive. It is essentially worthless for anything except creating explosions. Devil's Advocate: based on your logic, why should we regulate ownership of dynamite, plastic explosives, and water gel explosives if using them improperly is already illegal? Answer: it is about prevention. Yes it is illegal to use explosives maliciously but by the time Law Enforcement catches on it might be too late...sure they can imprison people and even give them the death penalty but that doesn't help the bombing victims much. Regulating the ownership of the explosives makes them harder to obtain and easier to track.
    Last edited by Fëanor; 08-22-2013 at 10:48 AM.

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    4,352
    Quote Originally Posted by Fëanor View Post
    All of the items you guys are referring to have their own useful purpose. Tannerite is nothing more than an explosive. It is essentially worthless for anything except creating explosions. Devil's Advocate: based on your logic, why should we regulate ownership of dynamite, plastic explosives, and water gel explosives if using them improperly is already illegal? Answer: it is about prevention. Yes it is illegal to use explosives maliciously but by the time Law Enforcement catches on it might be too late...sure they can imprison people and even give them the death penalty but that doesn't help the bombing victims much. Regulating the ownership of the explosives makes them harder to obtain and easier to track.
    According to a proper interpretation of the 2nd amendment, civilians should have access to those materials. If a maniac is trying to kill people, they could just drive a truck into a crowd, or contaminate an air\water inlet. Thankfully, the people who are stupid enough to be convinced\convince themselves that needlessly hurting others is a good idea are usually fairly dumb.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    1tyme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    The Wild West
    Posts
    400
    I was within earshot of the handling DDA on a previous Tannerite case when he / she was dealing with the defendant's attorney and I was perplexed at his / her attitude about using it for targets. He / she said the HDT guys (bomb squad) were adamant about pushing the filing through. I'm a little out of my lane in regards to Tannerite, but I didn't see the big deal.
    Last edited by 1tyme; 08-22-2013 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Spelling
    The Thousandth Man

  16. #16
    Off topic poster
    mookster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Wild wild west in AZ
    Posts
    1,125
    I've played around with tannerite. Yeah, it goes "BOOM" really loud, but there is no flash, flames or fiery explosions. That car had other issues that started the fire.

    I recommend at least trying it out ounce. Just a pound. Although I know you hafta drive a ways to get to an open area Feanor. If you have time, just shoot up I-15 into AZ, lots of open area that no ones going to be bothered lol.

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    HI629's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Posts
    1,955
    Last time I shot up Tannerite it was in about 2' of snow. It was a lot of fun. :-D
    mookster likes this.

  18. #18
    Off topic poster
    mookster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Wild wild west in AZ
    Posts
    1,125
    Quote Originally Posted by HI629 View Post
    Last time I shot up Tannerite it was in about 2' of snow. It was a lot of fun. :-D
    What's snow? We don't get that in southern Utah!!
    HI629 likes this.

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    186
    I was wondering when something like this was going to happen. I've seen lots of videos where knuckleheads want the bigger bang and mix up 10 and 20 pounds of the stuff. Something cool and fun comes along and then someone screws it up for the rest of us.

  20. #20
    Oh no, it's da Po-Po
    Blackdog F4i's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,821
    Quote Originally Posted by Fëanor View Post
    All of the items you guys are referring to have their own useful purpose. Tannerite is nothing more than an explosive. It is essentially worthless for anything except creating explosions.
    How do you figure. Each component of "Tannerite" on it's own is used daily in farming and other industries.

    The logic you are attempting to use is the exact same logic that the anti-gunners are attempting to use to remove us of our firearms.
    HI629, BigTzzy and winn99 like this.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    2,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
    How do you figure. Each component of "Tannerite" on it's own is used daily in farming and other industries.
    That may be true, but that is not Tannerite. That is the individual components. Fertilizer isn't illegal, but making it into a bomb is. Mixing the components of Tannerite creates a compound that is not useful for any other purpose. I don't see how it does not fit the definition of creating a destructive device.

    Don't misunderstand me; I am not advocating that Tannerite be made illegal. I am trying to ascertain what difference between Tannerite and other explosives allows it to maintain a legal status.

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    501
    Has anyone heard of Tannerite being used as a weapon? I have tried the stuff before and seems fairly safe as far as explosives go. No flash, flame, worries of starting a fire, etc.

  23. #23
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Southeast
    Posts
    751
    Quote Originally Posted by XD4ME View Post
    Has anyone heard of Tannerite being used as a weapon? I have tried the stuff before and seems fairly safe as far as explosives go. No flash, flame, worries of starting a fire, etc.
    I have never heard of it used as such.

  24. #24
    Oh no, it's da Po-Po
    Blackdog F4i's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    4,821
    Quote Originally Posted by Fëanor View Post
    Mixing the components of Tannerite creates a compound that is not useful for any other purpose. I don't see how it does not fit the definition of creating a destructive device.
    "Tannerite" is just a trade name for mixing an ammonia nitrate based fertilizer with aluminum oxide powder (hence "binary" explosive). When you mix the two you get a low-explosive compound that can be detonated by a high energy impact. The speed of the shock wave is low enough that it is not classified as a high explosive.

    Tannerite is on the same level as firecrackers when you are talking about explosives. Can you blow stuff up with sufficient quantities of fireworks, gasoline, paint, etc? Sure. And that would be illegal.

    When you start trying to illegalize intimate objects, where does it end? Making low-explosive compounds illegal could really put a damper on the fourth of july and put a crimp in black powder hunting and smokeless powder reloading.

    Why not just concern ourselves with illegalizing the act. Why in gods name would a terrorist worry about buying tannerite when he can just load up a Ryder Truck with Ammonia Nitrate and Diesel? It's far more effective, just ask anyone who was near the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995.

    If you pop some half-pounders in the middle of a gun range or vacant field, why should that be illegal? If you decide to be stupid and load a large quantity into a dump truck and set off seismographs at a local nuclear power plant.....well, you are a dumbass and probably deserve whatever federal attention you get.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

  25. #25
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    OC, Ca.
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
    "Tannerite" is just a trade name for mixing an ammonia nitrate based fertilizer with aluminum oxide powder (hence "binary" explosive). When you mix the two you get a low-explosive compound that can be detonated by a high energy impact. The speed of the shock wave is low enough that it is not classified as a high explosive.

    Tannerite is on the same level as firecrackers when you are talking about explosives. Can you blow stuff up with sufficient quantities of fireworks, gasoline, paint, etc? Sure. And that would be illegal.

    When you start trying to illegalize intimate objects, where does it end? Making low-explosive compounds illegal could really put a damper on the fourth of july and put a crimp in black powder hunting and smokeless powder reloading.

    Why not just concern ourselves with illegalizing the act. Why in gods name would a terrorist worry about buying tannerite when he can just load up a Ryder Truck with Ammonia Nitrate and Diesel? It's far more effective, just ask anyone who was near the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995.

    If you pop some half-pounders in the middle of a gun range or vacant field, why should that be illegal? If you decide to be stupid and load a large quantity into a dump truck and set off seismographs at a local nuclear power plant.....well, you are a dumbass and probably deserve whatever federal attention you get.
    Umm, any HDS grads on here???? oh, maybe ...ME

    Anyways, it's LEGAL to purchase in Ca., mix it with some extra Alum. powders, other fuels, etc, tamp it, confine it, and...presto...possession of a destructive device once mixed.
    Uh, yeah...it exits the "low explosive" category when some of the brands are recording velocities of 14,400 feet per second. We're not talking the traditional EOD definition of 22K fps, the feds have brought the range of high vs. low into the 3500-4000 fps in civillian application. Something for you to think about.

    Stay the hell away from "Kick ***" brand ".22 sensitive" targets. A guy in NV blew his hand off mixing it, most likely from static electricity. A father/son team just rattled their hood in O.C. after shooting a target of it with an air rifle to the tune of only 350 fps.

    Other tests I won't post in the Bomb Tech world prove this stuff is MUCH easier to use/set up for a large IED than ANFO. It will be used in a criminal act in the next 24 months in the U.S. Way too easy to purchase/use. ONLY state it is banned in is Maryland, and the USFS has banned it's use in 5 states on their jurisdiction after 16 fires set from it's use.

    Reality, plain and simple.

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Click here to log in or register