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Thread: Retired LEO and concealed carry

  1. #1
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    Retired LEO and concealed carry

    Hello guys

    RE this 2009 article

    http://www.officer.com/article/10232...paign=10896051

    how many guys are complying with the requirements to qualify and other items outlined in this law, regarding carrying concealed. What if retired 25 year officer Joe has "retired officer" credentials to include badge and cred, issued by former agency, and is a legal CCW holder. I mean if all Joe Civilian needs is a CCW, I would think retired Officer Joe should be fine.

    what is "really" going on regarding this issue

    if stopped for a traffic violation, and the retired officer says "Sir, just so you know, I am a retired LEO and CCW holder and have a weapon" is the officer gonna ask "ok are you complying with 2004 Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act"

    I kinda know the answer but I wanted some audience feedback

    Thanks
    Last edited by satpak77; 03-19-2013 at 11:46 PM.

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    I can’t speak for the other states but in California, a retired California peace officer can carry as a matter of state law without having to qualify annually, so this is a moot issue.

    In order for California retirees to be legal out of state and for an out of state retirees to be legal in California, they must possess an HR 218 card in addition to their retired ID card. In order to obtain the HR 218 card, one must have qualified within the past 12 months.

    Legally, it’s simply a matter of whether you have the two ID cards.
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    This well may be an apples to oranges issue depending on circumstances.

    If carrying under LEOSA alone the requirements include having qualified within the last year and a photo ID from the agency. Some aspects of LEOSA are strictly at the time of encounter; when you encountered them were they in possession of the requisite ID and were they otherwise qualified and not otherwise disqualified.

    If carrying on a CCW permit, they need only be in compliance with the applicable laws therein. If they are out of the state of issue they must be in a reciprocity state or in compliance with LEOSA if that is what they are relying upon.

    To be honest, I think its safe to assume that a retired LEO would be subject to a lesser degree of scrutiny than that of a Joe citizen; be it right or wrong, it’s just a likely truth. However if said “retired LEO” was saying or doing something to raise concern, you may well subject them to a greater degree of scrutiny as there may well be cases where unlike with a CCW permit which can usually be verified in a matter of moments, such may not be so easy for a retired cop. I say this because departments are going out of business, are absorbed by larger agencies, merge or are not 24/7 operations and your ability to ring up say the St. Paul Police Department will be for naught.

    This my friend is where intuition, cop-o-logic, and a degree of common sense comes into play
    Quote Originally Posted by SSD View Post
    It has long been the tradition on this forum and as well as professionally not to second guess or Monday morning QB the officer's who were actually on-scene and had to make the decision. That being said, I don't think that your discussion will go very far on this board.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
    And now you are arguing about not arguing..................

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    good info, thanks guys.

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    In state, it does not matter - in fact, here in AZ open & concealed carry does not require a permit. I do have a state CCW, and there are varying numbers of states that accept it. I also have my LEOSA items, just in case I go into a state that does not accept my AZ permit.
    And yes, I qualified last week. Plus my agency issues new retired creds each year, to make sure I have not "gone bad" .
    "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
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    Just as a follow up, if on making an enforcement contact in California, someone were to tell me they were a retired cop and a CCW holder and were armed, I would tend to look at them with a jaundiced eye and question if they were really a cop.

    If they were from California, they should know they can carry on their retired California police ID card alone. If they are from out of state they should know that California does not have reciprocity with other states on CCW permits. As cops, they should also know that they can carry in California on their retired police ID and their HR 218 card, which they should also have obtained if the qualified in order to get a CCW permit.

    CCW permit and retired cop may have some extra benefit in other states, but they do not mesh in California.
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    Quote Originally Posted by L-1 View Post
    I can’t speak for the other states but in California, a retired California peace officer can carry as a matter of state law without having to qualify annually, so this is a moot issue.

    In order for California retirees to be legal out of state and for an out of state retirees to be legal in California, they must possess an HR 218 card in addition to their retired ID card. In order to obtain the HR 218 card, one must have qualified within the past 12 months.

    Legally, it’s simply a matter of whether you have the two ID cards.




    My colleague's reply totally mirrors Alabama's requirements on the matter you reference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipCal View Post
    My colleague's reply totally mirrors Alabama's requirements on the matter you reference.
    Totally opposite here in Iowa.....................a retired cop is almost always issued a weapons permit by the county sheriff (if they ask for one)............AND of course is eligible for LEOSA coverage.

    There are several advantages such as already being "cleared" to buy weapons without a 3 day waiting period or NICS check after issuance of a weapons permit. In Iowa you need a permit to buy a handgun..............unless you have a carry permit

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    Quote Originally Posted by L-1 View Post
    Just as a follow up, if on making an enforcement contact in California, someone were to tell me they were a retired cop and a CCW holder and were armed, I would tend to look at them with a jaundiced eye and question if they were really a cop.

    If they were from California, they should know they can carry on their retired California police ID card alone. If they are from out of state they should know that California does not have reciprocity with other states on CCW permits. As cops, they should also know that they can carry in California on their retired police ID and their HR 218 card, which they should also have obtained if the qualified in order to get a CCW permit.

    CCW permit and retired cop may have some extra benefit in other states, but they do not mesh in California.
    In TN, under LEOSA I can only carry the weapon that was dept approved and I qualified on, currently the .40 Sig. Under TN CCW, I can carry any pistol I legally own. Thus I'm free to carry my .38 Spl Chief as well.

    On a related matter, my dept just disciplined an officer last year that carried a .38 off-duty while trick or treating with his kid. Another child was attacked by a dog, he shot the dog and saved the childs life. But he was not carrying the dept weapon and did not have a state CCW, so he was disciplined for unauthorized weapon. Then, in the height of hypocrisy, gave him a life-saving commendation. There's advantages to having CCW both for retirees and actives.

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    Well said Chopshopcop. If you have to qualify with a specific weapon to carry it under LEOSA it may be worth while to get a regular CCW permit too so if you want carry a different weapon you are covered.

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    In New York, retired police/peace officers and retired federal agents are issued unrestricted pistol permits (what I assume other states refer to as a CCW or Full Carry) which are good in the entire state (retired peace officers need to receive an endorsement from NYC in order to carry in NYC). In the southern part of the state, it is almost impossible to receive an unrestricted pistol permit unless you are a retried LEO. Some agencies such as the Rockland County Sheriff's Department offer any retired LEO the opportunity to qualify every year and give them a photo ID card with a 24/7 contact number that states they have met the criteria for the LEOSA.

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    interesting the differences state to state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L-1 View Post
    Just as a follow up, if on making an enforcement contact in California, someone were to tell me they were a retired cop and a CCW holder and were armed, I would tend to look at them with a jaundiced eye and question if they were really a cop.

    If they were from California, they should know they can carry on their retired California police ID card alone. If they are from out of state they should know that California does not have reciprocity with other states on CCW permits. As cops, they should also know that they can carry in California on their retired police ID and their HR 218 card, which they should also have obtained if the qualified in order to get a CCW permit.

    CCW permit and retired cop may have some extra benefit in other states, but they do not mesh in California.

    I'm confused, what is a HR 218 card? Is this a California only thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gruntpain1775 View Post
    I'm confused, what is a HR 218 card? Is this a California only thing?
    HR 218 requires retired officers wishing to CCW to carry identification indicating that within the last 12 months, they have been tested or otherwise found to meet firearms standards established for active law enforcement officers. This necessitates the annual issuance of a second ID card many people refer to as an HR 218 card, to be carried in addition to their retired police ID.

    The card can be issued by the retiree's own agency if they do the qualification, or another law enforcement aggency if they are willing to qualify the retiree (this happens often when the retiree moves away from the area where they used to work), and sometimes private ranges will offer qualification courses.

    The HR 218 card is not required for retired California officers who only wish to CCW within California, as state law allows them to carry without annual qualification.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopshopcop View Post
    On a related matter, my dept just disciplined an officer last year that carried a .38 off-duty while trick or treating with his kid. Another child was attacked by a dog, he shot the dog and saved the childs life. But he was not carrying the dept weapon and did not have a state CCW, so he was disciplined for unauthorized weapon. Then, in the height of hypocrisy, gave him a life-saving commendation. There's advantages to having CCW both for retirees and actives.
    That **** happens. When you have civilians writing police policy and procedures.

    Having a state CCW can he carry a S&W .500 Magnum when he clocks out?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Che View Post
    That **** happens. When you have civilians writing police policy and procedures.
    Doesn't have to have civilians writing the policy--- all administrators are funny about liability


    If you are carrying on your "badge" (police credentials) you are carrying under the authority of the department and I can totally understand the boss wanting you to be carrying an approved weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Che View Post
    Having a state CCW can he carry a S&W .500 Magnum when he clocks out?
    Sure.........carrying under a CCW you are doing so just like Joe Citizen and can do as you wish. Of course don't expect your department to do much to help you out should you use the weapon.


    Reason #2 why most Iowa LEO's carry both credentials and have a carry permit. They can carry anything they want.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Che View Post
    That **** happens. When you have civilians writing police policy and procedures.

    Having a state CCW can he carry a S&W .500 Magnum when he clocks out?
    Yep, he could. Dept even admitted publicly that if he had a state pemit, they couldn't and wouldn't have done anything.

    Civilians did not write the policy, it has been in effect for decades, long before I came on. Truth is, the Director has the power to override the disciplinary action but didn't. He has the power to rewrite the policy but hasn't. Personally, I would have refused the commendation and told 'em to stuff it, but that's just me.
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    well based on all the stuff here, me thinks that me will be getting a CCW once I retire


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    I have a friend who is a retired Califoria deputy who moved to a ranch in Oklahoma. He doesn't go to their local qualification shoots and doesn't want to come back to Cali, so he carries on a CCW. It's just easier for him to do it that way.
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    My question would be "retired" status in a technical sense. LEOSA is ten years total to receive a card. We have no actual retirement at my SO (No pension, etc.) so if I worked a total of say, 13 years I need some kind of "Retired" ID from the SO.. Something to demonstrate I left in good standing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dep D View Post
    My question would be "retired" status in a technical sense. LEOSA is ten years total to receive a card. We have no actual retirement at my SO (No pension, etc.) so if I worked a total of say, 13 years I need some kind of "Retired" ID from the SO.. Something to demonstrate I left in good standing?

    The law 18 USC 926B & 926C doesn't talk about retired..........it talks about separated officers

    I don't know any department that is going to give you credentials after 13 yrs without a retirement .......

    Just because you don't get a pension doesn't mean that you aren't retired........and the dept could give you retired cards

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dep D View Post
    My question would be "retired" status in a technical sense. LEOSA is ten years total to receive a card. We have no actual retirement at my SO (No pension, etc.) so if I worked a total of say, 13 years I need some kind of "Retired" ID from the SO.. Something to demonstrate I left in good standing?
    What kind of department do you work for that there is no pension after retirement??? Do you have a union? Are you full-time???

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    Quote Originally Posted by EnWhyPeeDee View Post
    What kind of department do you work for that there is no pension after retirement??? Do you have a union? Are you full-time???
    Ah.. the big difference to where and what state you work in. Yes I have been a full time cop for more than 10 years, BUT, I made sure it was a big but, in all of Colorado I believe there are only a handful of departments with a defined pension plan. Denver PD being the largest.

    No, we do not have a union, and again most departments do not.

    I work for an SO that ranges 800+ square miles and the county is very affluent. That being said instead of a pension they contribute 8% of your pay into a 401K or 457. Actually it is a nice sum of cash.

    Our monthly premium for medical/dental is very small in comparison to most because the county picks up so much.

    You get paid here or here, or here...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dep D View Post
    Ah.. the big difference to where and what state you work in. Yes I have been a full time cop for more than 10 years, BUT, I made sure it was a big but, in all of Colorado I believe there are only a handful of departments with a defined pension plan. Denver PD being the largest.

    No, we do not have a union, and again most departments do not.

    I work for an SO that ranges 800+ square miles and the county is very affluent. That being said instead of a pension they contribute 8% of your pay into a 401K or 457. Actually it is a nice sum of cash.

    Our monthly premium for medical/dental is very small in comparison to most because the county picks up so much.

    You get paid here or here, or here...
    Interesting. Here in New York all police officers receive some type of pension. Most receive 50% of their final average salary after 20 years of service. The majority of departments also offer a 457K Deferred COmpensation Plan which the officer contributes to. Healthcare and dental varies by each department. I work in the suburbs outside of NYC and have free lifetime benefits (healthcare and dental) when I retire for myself and my family. If I die, my family continues to receive these benefits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chopshopcop View Post
    Civilians did not write the policy, it has been in effect for decades, long before I came on. Truth is, the Director has the power to override the disciplinary action but didn't. He has the power to rewrite the policy but hasn't. Personally, I would have refused the commendation and told 'em to stuff it, but that's just me.
    Some of the police managers and executives I know do not deserve to be called cops. Actually I am suspicious of anyone Captain and above.

    Commendations are like 'attaboys'. When you have an "aw $hit!!!" moment, five 'attaboys' or a commendation will make it even.

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