Page 4 of 9 First 1234567 ... Last
Like Tree36Likes

Thread: DoD 0083 Police Officers and Military Police now covered under LEOSA

  1. #76
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    140
    When you have the law on your side like the DOD 0083's have now I wouldn't be too worried about it. I'd also recommend those who haven't signed up for their union that if they plan on carrying they do so immediately. I feel 100% comfortable doing so knowing I have the law on my side and union protection.

  2. #77
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunz View Post
    Ultimately, I think it will boil down to the 6c benefits. LEOSA is as clear as it gets about the safety of the officer and I'm glad they made it more clear with the amendments. I think DoD will continue to turn their backs just as BoP has their policy on carrying off duty.
    Quote Originally Posted by caseyp View Post
    When you have the law on your side like the DOD 0083's have now I wouldn't be too worried about it. I'd also recommend those who haven't signed up for their union that if they plan on carrying they do so immediately. I feel 100% comfortable doing so knowing I have the law on my side and union protection.
    BOP is good on LEOSA we just had a certian slowness when it first came out by the administration. sometimes they err to much on the side of caution nut with 36,000 employees they sort of have to be.

    caseyp, yes by the law you are covered however if a LEO runs you through the ringer and your own agency doesn't want to back you when they get contacted you might have a long day. Yes it will get solved.....eventually. That actually happened to a couple BOP staff. (no you didn't say anything about resisting this is just an example that happened)
    The LEO's actually started to arrest them (when this was new back in 2004/05 time frame) they ended up resisting and when BOP got involved the firearms charge had to be dropped but all the resisting and assulting a LEO in 1 case was followed through with.

    Also BOP has a great collective bargining and Union and I have still seen folks get fired in a couple cases when they pushed the envolope (they were in the right but keep being loud and your Boss will only tell you to shut up for so long) Sure they got their job back after the Union won an arbitration like a year later. So why you might have the law on your side you might want to let the smoke clear on the confusuion (it took BOP like a year and it's only been 2 weeks for DOD getting added) Be patient

    As bad as DOD treats their civilian employees I could see them making someones career go south if they fight their resistance even though DOD would be in the wrong. If the smoke on LEOSA doesn't get cleared up I would really suggest you guys get with your Union and Congressional and US Senate represenatives.

    Good luck

  3. #78
    One Night In Bangkok
    orlandofed5-0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Philly PA
    Posts
    5,511
    For DoD (and 90%) of all GS-0083 series to get a Law Enforcement retirement, several things MUST happen. The biggest one being that the agency must be able to fund them. It just wont happen.
    I don't work - I merely inflict myself upon the public.

  4. #79
    Forum Member
    Gunz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    East coast
    Posts
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by statebear View Post
    A couple of questions....

    What justification did the BOP come up with to grant their cooks LEO status?

    Why the USMCPD was not mentioned? (They not 0083s?)

    How the heck does an Air Traffic Controller merit LEO status?

    I thought the Coast Guard did away with their 0083s?

    Not to take anything away from the US Park Police (my understanding is they operate pretty much on a local LEO scale in the DC area), but how the hell does the Secret Service Uniformed Division get recognized as a 6c LEO over the LEOs employed by the DoD components? You don't get more force protection/security oriented then that agency (USSSUD)....
    Marine Corps police are 0083's.

  5. #80
    Solo is how I roll
    statebear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    1,659
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunz View Post
    Marine Corps police are 0083's.
    I figured that and was wondering why the author left them out...

  6. #81
    One Night In Bangkok
    orlandofed5-0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Philly PA
    Posts
    5,511
    Quote Originally Posted by statebear View Post
    A couple of questions....

    What justification did the BOP come up with to grant their cooks LEO status?

    Why the USMCPD was not mentioned? (They not 0083s?)

    How the heck does an Air Traffic Controller merit LEO status?

    I thought the Coast Guard did away with their 0083s?

    Not to take anything away from the US Park Police (my understanding is they operate pretty much on a local LEO scale in the DC area), but how the hell does the Secret Service Uniformed Division get recognized as a 6c LEO over the LEOs employed by the DoD components? You don't get more force protection/security oriented then that agency (USSSUD)....
    USSS-UD was placed into the retirement as was the former Treasury Police officers who were merged into them by USSS management. Any management as a whole can place their officers into LEO retirement.

    FAA ATC's are in a 20 year retirement due to long hours (more so than most 0083's) and burnout within the first 5 years of the job.

    USCG as stated no longer has civilian police officers.
    I don't work - I merely inflict myself upon the public.

  7. #82
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    South Texas
    Posts
    74
    Back to the cred issue.

    We had our Assistant Chief come out today to our daily briefing and he said that they are working on a DoD wide credential that will be issued to all services and that the earliest we can expect anything is by December.

  8. #83
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    140
    That will be interesting to see since most of us are with different organizations under the DOD umbrella. I know our command is still hush hush but truth be told I dare them to pursue punitive actions. Not trying to sound like billy bad a** but skirting the law for your own organization's agenda is unacceptable.
    Last edited by caseyp; 01-25-2013 at 10:22 AM.

  9. #84
    Solo is how I roll
    statebear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    1,659
    You do realize that any agency no matter whether it’s city/county/state/fed can restrict the carrying of off-duty weapons via an agency policy....

    Not only that, but in DoD's case they can make you turn in their cred with the weapon they issue you. The cred has and always will be the agency’s property or (in DoD's case) gov property.

  10. #85
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by statebear View Post
    You do realize that any agency no matter whether it’s city/county/state/fed can restrict the carrying of off-duty weapons via an agency policy....

    Not only that, but in DoD's case they can make you turn in their cred with the weapon they issue you. The cred has and always will be the agency’s property or (in DoD's case) gov property.

    Well said. Couldn't agree with you more!

  11. #86
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by statebear View Post
    You do realize that any agency no matter whether it’s city/county/state/fed can restrict the carrying of off-duty weapons via an agency policy....

    Not only that, but in DoD's case they can make you turn in their cred with the weapon they issue you. The cred has and always will be the agency’s property or (in DoD's case) gov property.
    Since LEOSA is a Federal Law Not easily! The said agency would have to re write the policy (ie take out the powers of arrest/apprehension, qualifing on fireams and the other qualifiers) That would be a change of working conditions and would have to be "negotiated"

    Like I stated earlier posts BOP and other agencies had the same issues and everyone should know by now no matter which agency the repective administration will do their reasearch before they "implement" ANYTHING. It's that way with everything. The issue with DOD is getting good union leadership to make sure it doesn't get stagmented and keeps going forward. If Guideance doesn't comeout within 8 months of so I would be questioning the Union leadership and if they are in bed with management time to have them removed!

    It's a lot of time not that management can legally do something it's what they are allowed to get away and at times you need look through the smoke screens!
    I will go on to add if you do not think your union leadership is representing go to the national one or talk to a E board member for another agency for advice. The one thing I noticed with DOD is a ton of civillian employees are former/retired active duty and the downside is they think they have to "swallow" everything Military leadership says like they are still active duty and that is simply not true. There are procedures as a civillian you do have certian rights.
    Last edited by in625shooter; 01-26-2013 at 11:59 AM.

  12. #87
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    103
    In625shooter,

    That was an interesting feedback. Is there something in writing stating that a DOD civilian 0083 has the right to carry their law enforcement credentials off- duty? Because Statebear has a good point. Management can implement a policy to turn-in credentials at the end of their shift, afterall it is govt property. The credentials are needed in order for LEOSA to work.
    Last edited by phil 15; 01-26-2013 at 05:18 PM.

  13. #88
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    103
    In625shooter,

    That was an interesting feedback. Is there something in writing stating that a DOD civilian 0083 has the right to carry their law enforcement credentials off- duty? Because Statebear has a good point. Mamagement can implement a policy to turn-in credentials at the end of their shift. The credentials are needed in order for LEOSA to work.

  14. #89
    Operator
    Bearcat357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Posts
    18,342
    Quote Originally Posted by phil 15 View Post
    Management can implement a policy to turn-in credentials at the end of their shift, afterall it is govt property. The credentials are needed in order for LEOSA to work.
    I know 2-3 small agencies in Rural NW Missouri that DO NOT ALLOW their folks off-duty carry.... They have a policy in writing..... If someone gets caught, they will be fired.....

  15. #90
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by phil 15 View Post
    In625shooter,

    That was an interesting feedback. Is there something in writing stating that a DOD civilian 0083 has the right to carry their law enforcement credentials off- duty? Because Statebear has a good point. Mamagement can implement a policy to turn-in credentials at the end of their shift. The credentials are needed in order for LEOSA to work.
    If DOD administration trys to have you turn in ID's thats a chicken*&^% move. I am not sure about any policy however don't you need ID's to get entrance granted on base etc? You did when I was in the military for 21 years and my 3 month nightmare with DOD, Again there are probably 100 different decicions for 100 different bases since they have zero guidence right now. My suggestion is if they try to force ID's to get turned in again you get with the union, FOP and your respective congressional and senate represenatives. This is where the national union and FOP needs to pursue it across the board all at once. Some administrations will try to say "well this is how we do it here" until a national policy/directive comes down.

    So I would check regs on what it says on having DOD issued ID's on your person or as a DOD employee and go from there.
    If you have specifics feel free to pm me and I will tell you what I know if it will help. I was 21 years active and guard as a AF SP so I know a little bit on DOD and how stuff sometimes rolls down!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcat357 View Post
    I know 2-3 small agencies in Rural NW Missouri that DO NOT ALLOW their folks off-duty carry.... They have a policy in writing..... If someone gets caught, they will be fired.....
    I would suggest those folks contact their elected federal represenatives or the state FOP folks. The agency can choose not to cover you legally or require you to carry off duty but if you meet the requirementsunder leosa they can not restrict your rights! if you meet the requirements you meet the requirements wether your boss agrees with it or not! Also you do not have to have powers of arrest off duty if they try that route. Most departments don't, even a lot of Federal LE agencies have no powers of arrest off duty.
    Last edited by in625shooter; 01-27-2013 at 09:27 AM.

  16. #91
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    103
    In625shooter,

    Good information on the FOP stuff; however, DOD 0083s are issued Common Access Cards as with all DOD civilian & military personnel. The LE credentials are separate and cannot be solely used to gain entry onto a miltary installation. FOP will have a difficulty time arguing the need for civilian 0083s to have their creds off duty. Even if it is a "chicken*&^% move" it would be a legitimate policy. Keep in mind, LEOSA is a bill that was passed, but it did not take away an employer's right to adjust or modify their policy.

  17. #92
    Solo is how I roll
    statebear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    1,659
    Quote Originally Posted by in625shooter View Post
    I am not sure about any policy however don't you need ID's to get entrance granted on base etc?
    That's what a CAC card is for. LE creds and a CAC card are two different animals. And yes I agree, it would be chicken crap, but it's the DoD we are talking about....the same folks who have denied LEOSA to its people over two words; "apprehension v. arrest” which mean the same dam thing to me and any other human being…..but apparently it didn’t to them

    Quote Originally Posted by in625shooter View Post
    I would suggest those folks contact their elected federal represenatives or the state FOP folks. The agency can choose not to cover you legally or require you to carry off duty but if you meet the requirementsunder leosa they can not restrict your rights! if you meet the requirements you meet the requirements wether your boss agrees with it or not! Also you do not have to have powers of arrest off duty if they try that route. Most departments don't, even a lot of Federal LE agencies have no powers of arrest off duty.
    This where you are wrong.......

    LEOSA is a privilege not a right. Your agency's creds are the issuing agency's sole property, just like the badge and gun they issue you. They can taketh away those items at any time they please. I too was an SP back in the day and have worked for two different civilian LE agencies since then, I have been in this business going on 18 years now and I must say you are wrong on this issue. I was an FOP member when I was a city police officer; I know full well what the FOP can and can not do.

    As far as not having arrest powers off duty.....I have never worked for a civilian department or knew of any PD/SO/SP/HP agency that did not have off-duty arrest powers... What are you talking about?

    As far as Feds, the only ones that stick out to me are BOP, VAPD and DoD. I'm sure there may be others that do not allow off-duty arrests of any kind, but I would guess most of those are in the 0083 series, I sure 1811s can hook someone off-duty. Now whether that is frowned upon by their (1811) management is a whole a different animal.....

  18. #93
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by statebear View Post
    That's what a CAC card is for. LE creds and a CAC card are two different animals. And yes I agree, it would be chicken crap, but it's the DoD we are talking about....the same folks who have denied LEOSA to its people over two words; "apprehension v. arrest” which mean the same dam thing to me and any other human being…..but apparently it didn’t to them



    This where you are wrong.......

    LEOSA is a privilege not a right. Your agency's creds are the issuing agency's sole property, just like the badge and gun they issue you. They can taketh away those items at any time they please. I too was an SP back in the day and have worked for two different civilian LE agencies since then, I have been in this business going on 18 years now and I must say you are wrong on this issue. I was an FOP member when I was a city police officer; I know full well what the FOP can and can not do.

    As far as not having arrest powers off duty.....I have never worked for a civilian department or knew of any PD/SO/SP/HP agency that did not have off-duty arrest powers... What are you talking about?

    As far as Feds, the only ones that stick out to me are BOP, VAPD and DoD. I'm sure there may be others that do not allow off-duty arrests of any kind, but I would guess most of those are in the 0083 series, I sure 1811s can hook someone off-duty. Now whether that is frowned upon by their (1811) management is a whole a different animal.....
    I fully understand what CAC cards do. BOP has been using the same ID's since I have been with them for over 13 years. No where on our ID's does it say LEO or anything Just title and DOJ/FOP and we are good to go. We (the agency) is/are in the process of issuing new ID cards with LEO descriptions but it has taken 8 years to get them. Your Agency can try to use the tactic of trying to turn in the credintials but my argument if I was representing you is why issuea second form of ID if you do not need it for access etc. There is no need for a badge with LEOSA just an AGENCY ISSUED ID card aka CAC card. BOP does not get badges issued except onduty when taking an armed trip or post.

    BOP had a couple issues when it first passed where staff got harassed by some LEO's for carrying but one call back to the institution got it cleared up. That will be the issue with DOD I'm afraid is getting Admin to back you up is there is a question however I believe most of the confusion is cleard up on it by now.

    As far as LEOSA true in a sense it is a privilege but it is also a Right for you 0083's that meet the criteria and if your administration is playing with you guys I would address them on it. Your situation sounded familiar to BOP's several years ago. All I am doing is suggesting some ways to address it in your line folks favor.
    There are lots of FED Agencies that have zero Arrest authority off duty and I believe Alaska State Troopers are limited as well (could have misread that not 100% sure) I worked for the US Marshals Service for a couple years as a contract guard and unless it is a situation related to an active case they will let local LE handle it. They can't arrest anyone for DUI/Domestic Battery etc.

    Even AFOSI civillian 1811's can't arrest off duty unless it fit's certain criteria!

    Good luck and don't give up the good fight

  19. #94
    OUT OF ROLE

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    NCR
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by in625shooter View Post
    If DOD administration trys to have you turn in ID's thats a chicken*&^% move
    ...Welcome to Law Enforcement in DoD. This is the sort of stuff we face/deal with all the time.

    My suggestion is if they try to force ID's to get turned in again you get with the union, FOP and your respective congressional and senate represenatives. This is where the national union and FOP needs to pursue it across the board all at once.
    Not all DoD LEO's have unions to fall back on, and ultimately it's up to the base commander. If they don't want officers to carry creds off duty, it's pretty much a done deal until such day that DoD updates the policy concerning us being covered under LEOSA (which currently only lists PFPA, NSA and the branch investigative agencies such as NCIS, CID). Contacting your representatives will also have little to no effect based upon fact that the BC is basically God as far as that base and its tenent agencies are concerend.

    Also on your later comment about being Security Forces, I can say things aren't always the same for us DoD civie cops.


    There is no need for a badge with LEOSA just an AGENCY ISSUED ID card aka CAC card. BOP does not get badges issued except onduty when taking an armed trip or post.
    This is incorrect. As stated in the 3rd post in this thread:
    d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed that identifies the employee as a police officer or law enforcement officer of the agency Cac's are a NO go...
    "BLUE"
    "Swallow your pride, don't let your lip react,
    You don't wanna see my hand where my hip be at"

  20. #95
    Solo is how I roll
    statebear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    1,659
    Quote Originally Posted by in625shooter View Post
    IYour Agency can try to use the tactic of trying to turn in the credintials but my argument if I was representing you is why issuea second form of ID if you do not need it for access etc. There is no need for a badge with LEOSA just an AGENCY ISSUED ID card aka CAC card. BOP does not get badges issued except onduty when taking an armed trip or post.
    And what good would that argument do? They would simply say, "Because we feel like it." You do realize they are dealing with the military. They don't have to explain anything to anybody, especially when it comes to "their" property....Bottom line is, the base/post CO is just below God on the base chain of command, what they want they get period. If they want their creds they will get it along with the gun they issue you and anything else. Also, I hope you don't subscribe to the, "CAC card qualifies as a LE ID" crowd. That topic has been debated and discussed on here many times and the amendment is clear: "The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed that identifies the employee as a police officer or law enforcement officer of the agency."
    Therefore a CAC card does not qualify. I don't know how BOP has been getting away with it all this time based on your comments and description of BOP's current ID... But obviously it is an issue with you and other BOP members otherwise you would not have been trying for 8 years now to get one issued to you that states you are an LEO.

    Quote Originally Posted by in625shooter View Post
    As far as LEOSA true in a sense it is a privilege but it is also a Right for you 0083's that meet the criteria and if your administration is playing with you guys I would address them on it. Your situation sounded familiar to BOP's several years ago. All I am doing is suggesting some ways to address it in your line folks favor.
    There are lots of FED Agencies that have zero Arrest authority off duty and I believe Alaska State Troopers are limited as well (could have misread that not 100% sure) I worked for the US Marshals Service for a couple years as a contract guard and unless it is a situation related to an active case they will let local LE handle it. They can't arrest anyone for DUI/Domestic Battery etc.

    Even AFOSI civillian 1811's can't arrest off duty unless it fit's certain criteria!

    Good luck and don't give up the good fight
    Fisrt off, I'm not nor have I ever been employed by the DoD in a civlian capacity. I was an active-duty AF SP, former city police officer and a current state trooper, I have no idea why you keep referring to the DoD as my agency...

    Secondly, AK State Troopers, just like all State Troopers/Officers in the lower 48 have off-duty arrest powers 24/7 anywhere within their respective States. Here is Alaska's State Statue:

    AS 18.65.080. Powers and Duties of Department and Members of State Troopers.
    The Department of Public Safety and each member of the state troopers is charged with the enforcement of all criminal laws of the state, and has the power of a peace officer of the state or a municipality and those powers usually and customarily exercised by peace officers. Each member of the state troopers may prevent crime, pursue and apprehend offenders, obtain legal evidence, institute criminal proceedings, execute any lawful warrant or order of arrest, make an arrest without warrant for a violation of law committed in the presence of the state trooper, and may cooperate with other law enforcement agencies in detecting crime, apprehending criminals, and preserving law and order in the state.


    If you still have any doubts, go visit the AK forum on here, I'm sure the AK Troopers that hang there will be more than happy to fill you in on what they can or can't do off-duty.

    As far as 1811s, a lot of it has to do with their agency and their management. From experience, all I will say is some Fed agencies are more aggressive than others. With that said, when I worked with them, I never had the notion to ask them if they were interested in going out and making DUI or domestic violence collars with me.....what I was referring to was serious violent felonies in their presence while they are in an off-duty capacity. Now whether after getting involved and making the off-duty arrest, they will actually book, write the case and present it to the prosecuting authority is another deal. But I know for dam sure a deputy USM or a Fed 1811 can slap some cuffs on anybody if the need arises when off duty. Where as a BOP, VAPD, DoD officers and "most" other 083s can not in an off-duty capacity.

    Most of your MCIO 1811s can not arrest anyone unless the crime has a military nexus. Nothing new there….

    Good luck to you and your good fight with the BOP......I'm good where I'm at.
    Last edited by statebear; 01-27-2013 at 04:49 PM. Reason: added content

  21. #96
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by ThGreatFandango View Post
    ...Welcome to Law Enforcement in DoD. This is the sort of stuff we face/deal with all the time.


    Not all DoD LEO's have unions to fall back on, and ultimately it's up to the base commander. If they don't want officers to carry creds off duty, it's pretty much a done deal until such day that DoD updates the policy concerning us being covered under LEOSA (which currently only lists PFPA, NSA and the branch investigative agencies such as NCIS, CID). Contacting your representatives will also have little to no effect based upon fact that the BC is basically God as far as that base and its tenent agencies are concerend.

    Also on your later comment about being Security Forces, I can say things aren't always the same for us DoD civie cops.



    This is incorrect. As stated in the 3rd post in this thread:
    d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed that identifies the employee as a police officer or law enforcement officer of the agency Cac's are a NO go...
    I understand the bureaucracy involved, it gets deep. I also understand some local DOD unions don't want to make a wave. If your local union wont tackle this then replace them. That is why I recommend you get a case started through the Union and if the local drags their feet go to the national union, get FOP involved due to the fact they will represent you across the board, How many DOD Police is there across the country? This effects all of them. FOP also is effective because they have a rapport with Congresstional and Senate represenatives and since DOD falls under the Fed's. DOD can get directed to make things right if the right people in congress and the Senate are made aware of your plight!

    I'm sure you will have some resistance but be patient and do it the right way through the Union, FOP and your elected legislature.

    Again I am just suggesting what I would pursue if I were there. I see similarities between some lumps my agency delt with and what you are going through. There will be a lot of off the wall idle threats/suggestions by your administration but I don't see it lasting but then again that was some of the reasons I couldn't run back to BOP fast enough!

    Good Luck!

  22. #97
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    140
    I speak in terms of only my region but I know our CBA specifically outlines and protects our issuance and carrying of credentials off duty. CO cannot circumvent that agreement. They can try and find loop holes like they have tried in the past but the only thing it accomplished was a threat of lawsuit and thus it was dropped.

  23. #98
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    207
    Quote Originally Posted by statebear View Post
    And what good would that argument do? They would simply say, "Because we feel like it." You do realize they are dealing with the military. They don't have to explain anything to anybody, especially when it comes to "their" property....Bottom line is, the base/post CO is just below God on the base chain of command, what they want they get period. If they want their creds they will get it along with the gun they issue you and anything else. Also, I hope you don't subscribe to the, "CAC card qualifies as a LE ID" crowd. That topic has been debated and discussed on here many times and the amendment is clear: "The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed that identifies the employee as a police officer or law enforcement officer of the agency."
    Therefore a CAC card does not qualify. I don't know how BOP has been getting away with it all this time based on your comments and description of BOP's current ID... But obviously it is an issue with you and other BOP members otherwise you would not have been trying for 8 years now to get one issued to you that states you are an LEO.



    Fisrt off, I'm not nor have I ever been employed by the DoD in a civlian capacity. I was an active-duty AF SP, former city police officer and a current state trooper, I have no idea why you keep referring to the DoD as my agency...

    Secondly, AK State Troopers, just like all State Troopers/Officers in the lower 48 have off-duty arrest powers 24/7 anywhere within their respective States. Here is Alaska's State Statue:

    AS 18.65.080. Powers and Duties of Department and Members of State Troopers.
    The Department of Public Safety and each member of the state troopers is charged with the enforcement of all criminal laws of the state, and has the power of a peace officer of the state or a municipality and those powers usually and customarily exercised by peace officers. Each member of the state troopers may prevent crime, pursue and apprehend offenders, obtain legal evidence, institute criminal proceedings, execute any lawful warrant or order of arrest, make an arrest without warrant for a violation of law committed in the presence of the state trooper, and may cooperate with other law enforcement agencies in detecting crime, apprehending criminals, and preserving law and order in the state.


    If you still have any doubts, go visit the AK forum on here, I'm sure the AK Troopers that hang there will be more than happy to fill you in on what they can or can't do off-duty.

    As far as 1811s, a lot of it has to do with their agency and their management. From experience, all I will say is some Fed agencies are more aggressive than others. With that said, when I worked with them, I never had the notion to ask them if they were interested in going out and making DUI or domestic violence collars with me.....what I was referring to was serious violent felonies in their presence while they are in an off-duty capacity. Now whether after getting involved and making the off-duty arrest, they will actually book, write the case and present it to the prosecuting authority is another deal. But I know for dam sure a deputy USM or a Fed 1811 can slap some cuffs on anybody if the need arises when off duty. Where as a BOP, VAPD, DoD officers and "most" other 083s can not in an off-duty capacity.

    Most of your MCIO 1811s can not arrest anyone unless the crime has a military nexus. Nothing new there….

    Good luck to you and your good fight with the BOP......I'm good where I'm at.
    statebear, I'm sensing adjitation which I didn't mean to cause. It also was not my intention to refer you specifically as DOD. As far as the Military the miltary can only do what bthey want to the Military meber to a point thecivilian employees do have more rights than a military member. according to labor laws for example as a civillian you can not be made to work past 40 hours a week (or similar if you have a different schedule 12's, 10's etc) without compensation. Military members know at times they have to "eat it"without any expected compensation thats just part of being the Military member. That is a problem with Military leadership....they do have a God complex and it violates a lot of labor agreements. They don't really know what to do with all the civillian employees they have now (at least the AF doesn't) I am simply stating how to address the LEOSA issues DOD is facing.

    As for the Alaska reference, I stated I wasn't 100% sure so why the anger, I wasn't insulting them at all.

    As for my references on arrests off duty I used basic misdemeaner infractions as a reference. Even if you have no stautory powers of arrests off duty with any Felonies last I knew any US Citizen not just an LEO could place someone under a citzens arrest for a felony except in one state (N. Carolina I believe)

    As for the BOP credentials the ones we had/have are DOJ/BOP with our job title, that was good enough per LEOSA by our agency. There are new ID's being issued as I speak with the words Law Enforcement Officer just like our retired ID's have said that for years.

    There is no fight within BOP anymore, our LEOSA issues were addressed so I'm also good with BOP and the Fed LE retirement is not a bad thing to be in.

  24. #99
    Solo is how I roll
    statebear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Behind you
    Posts
    1,659
    Quote Originally Posted by in625shooter View Post
    statebear, I'm sensing adjitation which I didn't mean to cause. It also was not my intention to refer you specifically as DOD. As far as the Military the miltary can only do what bthey want to the Military meber to a point thecivilian employees do have more rights than a military member. according to labor laws for example as a civillian you can not be made to work past 40 hours a week (or similar if you have a different schedule 12's, 10's etc) without compensation. Military members know at times they have to "eat it"without any expected compensation thats just part of being the Military member. That is a problem with Military leadership....they do have a God complex and it violates a lot of labor agreements. They don't really know what to do with all the civillian employees they have now (at least the AF doesn't) I am simply stating how to address the LEOSA issues DOD is facing.

    As for the Alaska reference, I stated I wasn't 100% sure so why the anger, I wasn't insulting them at all.

    As for my references on arrests off duty I used basic misdemeaner infractions as a reference. Even if you have no stautory powers of arrests off duty with any Felonies last I knew any US Citizen not just an LEO could place someone under a citzens arrest for a felony except in one state (N. Carolina I believe)

    As for the BOP credentials the ones we had/have are DOJ/BOP with our job title, that was good enough per LEOSA by our agency. There are new ID's being issued as I speak with the words Law Enforcement Officer just like our retired ID's have said that for years.

    There is no fight within BOP anymore, our LEOSA issues were addressed so I'm also good with BOP and the Fed LE retirement is not a bad thing to be in.
    No agitation on my part….. but it is always good when posting in a forum such this to practice situational awareness and know what and who you are referring to, if an intelligent debate/conversation is what you seek. We try to keep it professional at least in this section of forums where only LEOs are supposed to post. There are plenty of other sections on this forum that allows all manner of unintelligent people to comment on matters they have no clue about. I’m NOT referring to YOU when I say that, but it always good to check your facts, etc…before spreading possible disinformation is all.

    Also, I’m not an AK Trooper and even if I was, would have felt no anger towards you, my only point with posting what I did is in reference to above on that issue. (Know your facts.)

    There are differences with arresting someone as a private citizen v. as an LEO. Both legally and civilly; ask any local LEO and they would tell you if given the choice they would rather arrest someone under the color of being a certified, duly sworn off-duty law enforcement officer within the confines of their jurisdiction, then as private Joe Blow. Especially if that off-duty action results in the use of (justified) deadly force….

    Way too many lawyers out here looking for a pay check and without the backing/support of an employing LE agency, one could easily find themselves up crap creek without a paddle. With that said, we could probably argue infinitely about the current perception of how LE agencies in general will wash their hands of their folks whenever highly securitized incidents occur whether on duty or off-duty, but I guess my agency is in the minority then, because that is the last thing I think about when faced with making any decision on or off-duty. It has been ingrained in our heads from day one; if you do the right thing we will support you 100%.

    In the end we each choose who we work for……stay safe.
    Last edited by statebear; 01-27-2013 at 07:50 PM.

  25. #100
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    6
    To hit this subject from a different angle...

    Since 4310 has been signed into law, can it really be considered a privelage and not a right? By my understanding of what I have read, if you meet the qualifications, you can carry. I could understand DoD being able to place guidlines but preventing you from carrying? Can they override a federal law legally?

Page 4 of 9 First 1234567 ... Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Click here to log in or register