12-15-2012, 01:42 AM #1
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
Hospital Staff on Active Shooter Scene
Has anyone heard of anything like this? Seems I heard something about Local ER's sending staff with Police/Fire/EMS to assist in the medical care in a "Safe Zone" of active shooters like in CT. I thought I heard something in the CT dispatch recording of a local hospital sending RN's with Police escorts to a safezone to help with the triage, treatment, and evacuation of those wounded? What are your thoughts on this? Good idea, bad idea, or too much confusion on the scene to tell?
12-15-2012, 04:48 AM #2
This is also the reason no officers are allowed to off duty carry on VA property and we escort on duty officers doing official business. No need for a blue on blue incident when we are reacting to an active shooter.
Last edited by GIOSTORMUSNRET; 12-15-2012 at 04:54 AM.GOD IS A NINJA WITH A SNIPER RIFLE, WAITING TO TAKE YOU OUT.
"For weapons training they told me to play DOOM"
12-15-2012, 05:03 AM #3
^^^You do realize that you posted in an "open" area? Possible OPSEC issues......
12-15-2012, 05:59 AM #4
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
I speaking more on the part of local hospitals having staff in a designated staging area to assist EMS with the traige and treatment of wounded until they can be moved to an Emergency room or trauma center. With the lack of resources available (IE: Ambulances) It seems having providers that can utilize a higher treatment of care would be beneficial. Of course as LE, our concerns are different then EMS... this is probably better suited for an EMS board
12-15-2012, 08:15 AM #5
I would say it's a good idea; as long as the medical support staff remain in the staging area and don't attempt to enter the active scene until it's been cleared of threats and secured by L.E......
I would also welcome this; considering that trying to get some of the lazy-arsed nurses in my hospital to budge from their duty station is as hard as trying to pull out a good tooth with a pair of pliers....Just another squirrel, tryin' to get a nut......Hidden Content
12-15-2012, 09:35 AM #6
Most metropolitan areas have "disaster plans" which often include advance (on scene ) triage areas staffed by multi-discipline health care providers.
These written (and often practiced) plans can (and are) modified for any mass casualty incident.
Read up on the United 232 (1989 Sioux City Iowa) crash. The medical/EMS/Fire response to that disaster became the model for mass casualty response.
If you watch the videos of the Newtown scene, you will see two areas (one in the parking lot of the School and one in the parking lot of the fire station) where colored tarps were laid out along with folding chairs and "tool boxes"-------both were next to fire trucks/ ambulance parking
Those areas were triage areas that could be manned by either EMS or medical personel and were "away" from the active scene. NOTE: The area at the school parking lot was not set up until after the building was cleared.
Last edited by Iowa #1603; 12-15-2012 at 09:38 AM.
12-15-2012, 11:39 AM #7GOD IS A NINJA WITH A SNIPER RIFLE, WAITING TO TAKE YOU OUT.
"For weapons training they told me to play DOOM"
12-16-2012, 11:32 PM #8
So this isn't sensitiveve tactical information at all. In my opinion, it's important that civilians and LE are on the same page, so that each will have an idea of what the other is doing during an active-shooter situation.Do you wish to have no fear of authority? Then do what is good and you will receive approval from it, for it is a servant of God for your good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer. Therefore, it is necessary to be subject not only because of the wrath but also because of conscience.
-- Romans 13: 3-5
12-19-2012, 02:18 AM #9
I know a lot of RNs that would like to help out in that situation, and I know many more that would turn it into a full blown cluster. There's nothing wrong with having RNs and medics help each other out, but usually when they interact there's a problem with the old "too many chiefs, not enough indians" ordeal. Paramedics, as a whole, are better suited for both field work and the initial treatment of trauma. Nurses, as a whole, are better suited for in hospital "care" and secondary treatment. The training programs compliment each other, but unless the RN was experienced in trauma care they'd be about useless.
From a law enforcement standpoint, in an active shooter scenario the idea is to neutralize the shooter. At that point, the victims are sadly an after thought in terms of tactics, but they have to be to prevent more victimization.
If I personally were in this scenario, I'd want to be on the inside looking for the shooter or taking up some other police role. Policing is more natural to me than healthcare, lol.
12-25-2012, 09:00 PM #10
-Standard NIMS/ICS plans contain an triage area near the IC to handle mass casualty. Nothing new in this.
-During several of our active-shooter multi-agency trainings we would even test out using 'volunteer' paramedics as part of the later (not initial) entry teams. There was plenty of pros and cons to the idea of these 'medics' going in. It was never fully worked out by the time I retired but I know its being discussed.Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
“Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”
Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
“Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.”
01-02-2013, 09:07 PM #11
We have a similar plan in place but not for active shooter situations...if we get a large accident ie schoolbus or something along those lines we have a big chest of trauma supplies stationed at the local dr office. We also have an agreement (with that dr office) that if/when something like this happens, I (or another deputy) can stop by, tell everyone to load up in my patrol unit (expedition), grab the supply trunk and haul everyone (and all the supplies) to the scene.
Now keep in mind we are a very small county and very remote. Our EMS keeps a rotation to staff one ambulance guaranteed (maybe two if everyone is town) and the next closest ambulance is 30-40 mins away in the next town over. If we ever have to put this plan into effect we can now free up our paramedics to handle/xport the more severe kiddos/people while the nurses/nurse practitioners handle the less severe cases.Chris
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01-02-2013, 09:34 PM #12
Well it doesn't necessarily have to be an Active Shooter scene. However, generally, each region would have a Hospital with a designated "Go Team" that could respond out to a critical incident.
However the incidents that they would generally be called to would be something more along the lines of a construction worker with a leg crushed and pinned between 100 tons of steel. The "Go Team" would then come in and perform a field amputation (something that EMS personnel wouldn't be able to do) and remove the construction worker, thereby possibly saving his life.
As far as sending "hospital personnel" out to a major incident scene... that would be useless. They are hospital personnel and are therefore trained to work in a hospital setting. EMS personnel are trained to work in the field (and in some areas of the country are Hospital Employees) and handle emergency medical care in the field. In a major incident scene, patients would be triaged and transported to various hospitals in the region, based upon their color code.
01-02-2013, 09:36 PM #13
And if you were talking about sending medical personnel into the "Hot Zone" that would be a big no; unless your agency is equipped with Tactical Medics, who are specifically trained and equipped to deal with such situations.
01-03-2013, 10:55 AM #14
It's sad the amount of LEO's that have never had SIMS training...We can run around with "red guns" yelling bang bang all day....it gets a lot more "real" when you bring powder charged projectiles into play.
Either way though, it's great that your agency is doing SOMETHING...I still think there are a lot that won't.
01-03-2013, 09:25 PM #15The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone
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01-03-2013, 10:29 PM #16