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  1. #1
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    Downright insulting...

    Ok sure I can understand gearing this towards civilian employees, but making this mandatory for the Border Patrol officers too?! And making no apologies as if to say it was a mistake? Stupid. Downright stupid and inconsiderate of the job these guys do every day.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/29...urse-promotes/

    Border Patrol union blasts Homeland Security instructions to 'run away' and 'hide' from gunmen

    Border Patrol agents in Arizona are blasting their bosses for telling them, along with all other Department of Homeland Security employees, to run and hide if they encounter an "active shooter."

    It's one thing to tell civilian employees to cower under a desk if a gunman starts spraying fire in a confined area, say members of Tucson Local 2544/National Border Patrol Council, but to give armed law enforcement professionals the same advice is downright insulting. The instructions from DHS come in the form of pamphlets and a mandatory computer tutorial.

    “We are now taught in an ‘Active Shooter’ course that if we encounter a shooter in a public place we are to ‘run away’ and ‘hide’" union leader Brandon Judd wrote on the website of 3,300-member union local. “If we are cornered by such a shooter we are to (only as a last resort) become ‘aggressive’ and ‘throw things’ at him or her. We are then advised to ‘call law enforcement’ and wait for their arrival (presumably, while more innocent victims are slaughtered)."

    The FEMA-administered computer course, entitled “IS-907- Active Shooter: What You Can Do,” is a 45-minute tutorial that provides guidance to all employees on how to recognize indicators of possible workplace violence and what to do should their office be invaded by gunmen and focuses around three main options; either evacuate, hide out, or in dire circumstances, take action.

    MAIN POINTS OF THE "ACTIVE SHOOTER" TRAINING COURSE

    Evacuate: If there is an accessible escape path, attempt to evacuate the premises.

    Hide out: If evacuation is not possible, find a place to hide where the active shooter is less likely to find you.

    Take action: As a last resort, and only when your life is in imminent danger, attempt to disrupt and/or incapacitate the active shooter.

    Once the course is completed, employees are urged to download additional materials including a summary booklet and pocket-sized card outlining protocol, which was also handed out to employees two months ago.

    One DHS employee told FoxNews.com the instruction cards were handed out to employees six weeks ago. At the time, he assumed they were only for civilian employees, not armed law enforcement officers within the department, which oversees the U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

    "Requiring BP agents to follow the same steps is egregious,” he said.
    DHS officials maintain that the Active Shooter course was designed for all employees—civilian and law-enforcement officers-- and no one should rush into a situation where they, or others around them, could get hurt.

    “The Department of Homeland Security takes very seriously its responsibility to protect all of its employees from threats that may surface in the workplace,” U.S. Customs and Border Protection spokesman Michael Friel said in a written statement to FoxNews.com

    “CBP workforce training is designed to prepare all employees, including leaders, managers, supervisors, law enforcement personnel and non-law enforcement personnel, to understand their own roles and the roles of their fellow employees in responding to threats. In an active shooter scenario, employees are taught to take actions that keep them alive.”

    But members of Local 2544 say they are obligated to protect the public in such a situation, whether they are on duty or not. Given the instructions, some wonder if they would be disciplined for taking down a gunman in a situation like the Fort Hood shooting or the January, 2011 case in Casa Adobes, in which a deranged gunmen shot 19 people, including Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. Six people were killed.

    “It is always comforting to know that for those of us who carry a weapon when we are off-duty, if we should encounter such a situation, stop a shooter and save countless lives, we can look forward to being disciplined or fired by the Border Patrol because we should have run away to hide and then maybe thrown objects at the deranged killer instead of taking action and stopping him with a firearm,” the union local's website says.
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    The Agents were so offended, they leaked this information, and it is going viral. They finally got so fed up with their administration that they are doing something about it.



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    Don't think too much analysis is required here. Merely consider what passes for 'leadership" at DHS, or for that matter at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. When moral, ethical, and mental midgets are placed in charge, this is the result.

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    Oh boy, if I followed that advice of running and hiding I'd be dead today. We are the protectors of those who can't protect themselves. Something some suit in an office with a college degree daddy paid for wouldn't, or can't, understand.
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    From what people have posted here before, that actually is not too far from the usual protocol for an active shooter in a place like a mall or a school.

    Evacuate innocents
    Take cover until backup arrives

    Obviously each situation is different, but as a rule of thumb it makes sense to wait until there are enough officers to overcome the shooter, instead of just feeding them a steady stream of targets, one or two at a time. Border patrol is different because of how far away your backup could be.
    Last edited by Fëanor; 06-29-2012 at 10:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fëanor View Post
    From what people have posted here before, that actually is not too far from the usual protocol for an active shooter in a place like a mall or a school.

    Evacuate innocents
    Take cover until backup arrives

    Obviously each situation is different, but as a rule of thumb it makes sense to wait until there are enough officers to overcome the shooter, instead of just feeding them a steady stream of targets, one or two at a time. Border patrol is different because of how far away your backup could be.
    I'm not arguing against basic defensive tactics, but to me this training is described as directing the officers to group themselves in with the civilian evacuees fleeing the scene, rather than staying and attempting to end the situation if they can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krell View Post
    I'm not arguing against basic defensive tactics, but to me this training is described as directing the officers to group themselves in with the civilian evacuees fleeing the scene, rather than staying and attempting to end the situation if they can.
    Nonsense, I'm sure the computerized training is crystal clear and is fully adequate for the Border Patrol

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    I have actually taken this training course. I was not required to take it for my department but I took it because it looked interesting.

    I do not agree with it being required training for LE but in my opinion....

    I think CBP is trying to cover their butts if a active shooter situation were to take place and an CBP officer injuries a civilian in the process. Maybe CBP would try to say their officers were not trained to act that way if they were to be sued for the actions taken by a CBP LE member or maybe even use it as a firing tool.

    Just my .02 but who knows what goes on in the heads of some of the Police Administrators haha. Everyone looks for new "CYA" ideas.
    Last edited by HoldTheLine; 06-29-2012 at 10:33 PM. Reason: Spelling... Ooops

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    Sounds like DHS "leaders" are taking a page from directives from CBSA's "leaders" (and no, CBSA BSO's on here, this is NOT a slam, nor even an inter-Agency "poke", towards you line-grunts!).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fëanor View Post
    From what people have posted here before, that actually is not too far from the usual protocol for an active shooter in a place like a mall or a school.

    Evacuate innocents
    Take cover until backup arrives

    Obviously each situation is different, but as a rule of thumb it makes sense to wait until there are enough officers to overcome the shooter, instead of just feeding them a steady stream of targets, one or two at a time. Border patrol is different because of how far away your backup could be.
    In a place like a mall or a school it is actually not advised to wait long for backup at all. If it's an active shooter, you need to stop them ASAP before they kill more people. We are trained to form small groups (2-3, or whoever is there right away) and go in.
    In an active shooter situation you don't wait for all available officers or SWAT to arrive, if only you and one other officer arrive right away, you tactically enter and take care of the threat as soon as you can before they can kill more people. In an active shooter scenario, every second wasted is somebody being killed.

    Evacuating and taking cover may be usual protocol for Security Officers or other, non law enforcement employees, but it is not the protocol for Law Enforcement. Hiding or waiting in an active shooter situation is not a good route to take.
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    Why don't we let them across the borders and let them vote while we're at it... oh wait.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwandrie View Post
    In a place like a mall or a school it is actually not advised to wait long for backup at all. If it's an active shooter, you need to stop them ASAP before they kill more people. We are trained to form small groups (2-3, or whoever is there right away) and go in.
    In an active shooter situation you don't wait for all available officers or SWAT to arrive, if only you and one other officer arrive right away, you tactically enter and take care of the threat as soon as you can before they can kill more people. In an active shooter scenario, every second wasted is somebody being killed.
    +1
    Same here.
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    I know how I'd deal with an active shooter based on my training. I ain't looking to be the hero but I knew signing up for this gig that I would have to stand between the innocents and the criminals. That's my mindset now and that will be my mindset going into an active shooter should it (hopefully never) arrive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor13 View Post
    Why don't we let them across the borders and let them vote while we're at it... oh wait.
    I think I peed a little while laughing at this!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerohead View Post
    I think I peed a little while laughing at this!
    A little?

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    Here's What One Of The BP Unions Had To Say

    http://local2544.org/

    06-20-12 In another nauseating series of "Virtual Learning Center" brainwashing courses that Border Patrol agents are forced to sit behind a computer for hours and endure, we are now taught in an "Active Shooter" course that if we encounter a shooter in a public place we are to "run away" and "hide". If we are cornered by such a shooter we are to (only as a last resort) become "aggressive" and "throw things" at him or her. We are then advised to "call law enforcement" and wait for their arrival (presumably, while more innocent victims are slaughtered). Shooting incidents cited in the course are Columbine, the Giffords shooting and the Virginia Tech shooting.


    These types of mandatory brainwashing courses and the idiocy that accompanies them are simply stunning when they are force-fed to law enforcement officers. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that any three of the above shootings would have been stopped cold by an off-duty law enforcement officer or a law abiding citizen with a gun. The Fort Hood shooting would have been stopped cold by someone with a gun as well. The shooters in these situations depend on unarmed and scared victims. It gives them the power they seek. We could go on and on with examples of shootings that could have been stopped by someone with a firearm. One of the videos in this course actually shows a terrified female hiding behind a desk as an example of how to "hide" from some deranged shooter. Multiple quizzes throughout the course and a final test ensure repeatedly that we know that we only have three options when encountering some murderous thug in a public place. 1. Run away; 2. Hide; and 3. Only put up a fight as a last resort by acting aggressively and throwing things at the shooter. Not one mention anywhere of "if you are carrying a gun and you have the opportunity take the shooter out". Calling 911 in these instances is obvious, but we all know that waiting on the arrival of uniformed law enforcement will ensure more people are killed, injured, or taken hostage. Telling law enforcement officers that in all instances they are to run away and hide from some thug while innocent victims are butchered is simply inexcusable and pathetic.

    It is always comforting to know that for those of us who carry a weapon when we are off-duty, if we should encounter such a situation, stop a shooter and save countless lives, we can look forward to being disciplined or fired by the Border Patrol because we should have run away to hide and then maybe thrown objects at the deranged killer instead of taking action and stopping him with a firearm. This, in addition to the scrutiny and second-guessing that will come from local authorities and the inevitable possibility of lawsuits and criminal conviction.


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    This is being blown way out of proportion. I took the VLC two days ago and wasn't offended in the slightest. The supervisor said we had to do a new VLC course, I searched for it on the CBPnet, pulled it up, clicked "next" a few dozen times, and got a green checkmark on my transcript confirming that I'd completed the training. I couldn't tell you what it said about how to respond to active shooter incidents...because VLC's are stupid and no one ever actually reads them.

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    So now we should hire ribbon candy?

    Citation for Valor

    United States Border Patrol Officer Retardado Meauffeau, confronted by an active shooter, bravely ran and hid himself, and valiantly threw phone books, while a civilian employee foolishly neutralized the threat by injudicious use of a letter opener, wherewith he hastily pierced the shooter's carotid, subclavian, and femoral arteries. During the concurrent defensive effort of the deranged shooter, which defensive effort was inappropriately thwarted by the audacious civilian emplyoee, the shooter was disarmed by the civilian employee, who then proceeded to use the firearm to destroy the then helpless shooter, thus becoming a shooter himself.

    Officer Meauffeau then emerged from cover, and bravely confiscated the firearm and the weaponized letter opener form the barely co-operative civilian employee, whom the courageous Officer then immediately placed under arrest.

    The gallant actions of Officer Meauffeau are in keeping with the highest traditions of the United States Border Patrol.

  19. #19
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    this is really nothing new for the government.

    The DOJ/BOP has been teaching their FEDERAL LEO's in the prison system to run and hide when confronted by an angry inmate for years.

    The BOP has consistently refused to allow officers to even carry Mace/OC or Batons.......



    Sounds like the DHS hired the same trainers
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krell View Post
    Ok sure I can understand gearing this towards civilian employees, but making this mandatory for the Border Patrol officers too?! And making no apologies as if to say it was a mistake? Stupid. Downright stupid and inconsiderate of the job these guys do every day.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/29...urse-promotes/
    This is being hyped into something that it is not. We have this stupid "virtual learning center" that has a bunch of computer based courses that we have to take every quarter. They usually deal with policy/procedures, suicide, prevention, emergency preparedness, etc. They make both the administrative and LE employees complete those courses,. Many of us just scroll through the courses without reading them just to get them completed so we can get back to doing actual work.

    In this case, the "active shooter" course was one designed for office/administrative personnel. Some genius in DC put it on the list of required courses for all CBP employees, both law enforcement and non-enforcement. I am guessing that whoever did this probably never even looked closely at teh actual course before mandating it. A bunch of us made fun of the stupidity of making LE personnel do it, but nobody seriously believes that it reflects policy for us, because it doesn't. Our use of force training teaches nothing of the sort, and we even have a two weak training course for journeyman/senior agents that spends a significant amount of time on active shooter scenarios. Mandating this course was nothing more than a dumb mistake made by some administrator at DC that is being blown way out of proportion.

    I am not a bargaining unit member but I know that if I were still a union member that I would be somewhat concerned that the local union would intentionally make false claims in the media that we aren't allowed to defend ourselves or the public with firearms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigPat View Post
    This is being hyped into something that it is not. We have this stupid "virtual learning center" that has a bunch of computer based courses that we have to take every quarter. They usually deal with policy/procedures, suicide, prevention, emergency preparedness, etc. They make both the administrative and LE employees complete those courses,. Many of us just scroll through the courses without reading them just to get them completed so we can get back to doing actual work.

    In this case, the "active shooter" course was one designed for office/administrative personnel. Some genius in DC put it on the list of required courses for all CBP employees, both law enforcement and non-enforcement. I am guessing that whoever did this probably never even looked closely at teh actual course before mandating it. A bunch of us made fun of the stupidity of making LE personnel do it, but nobody seriously believes that it reflects policy for us, because it doesn't. Our use of force training teaches nothing of the sort, and we even have a two weak training course for journeyman/senior agents that spends a significant amount of time on active shooter scenarios. Mandating this course was nothing more than a dumb mistake made by some administrator at DC that is being blown way out of proportion.

    I am not a bargaining unit member but I know that if I were still a union member that I would be somewhat concerned that the local union would intentionally make false claims in the media that we aren't allowed to defend ourselves or the public with firearms.
    Don't hear much from you these days Pat, but speaking for myself, thanks for the clarification. That said, I have to restate what I said at the onset, and what you seem to have confirmed, this B.S. started at the top, as in "head shed".Glad to hear that you guys/gals doing the enforcement are still allowed to do so. Sincerely, thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fëanor View Post
    From what people have posted here before, that actually is not too far from the usual protocol for an active shooter in a place like a mall or a school.

    Evacuate innocents
    Take cover until backup arrives

    Obviously each situation is different, but as a rule of thumb it makes sense to wait until there are enough officers to overcome the shooter, instead of just feeding them a steady stream of targets, one or two at a time. Border patrol is different because of how far away your backup could be.
    Like the advice coming from an accountant... thanks you might get more people killed or do you work for the feds.

    As other officers/deps/ and troopers have said my department goes in with what we have. The first 2-3 units go in, pass the victims till you reach the shooter. If you wait then you might as well work on the fire department or ambulance company. It seems like chicken crap advice to give to your officers. Its advice like that makes other LEO's wonder about the Fed's. I think the problem is that the ones that are making the policy come from the old guard and still think their function is security. Well in reality the training as changed and they are more proactive and trained to handle the situation, hopefully something is changed and the BP officers don't follow that and take care of business.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigPat View Post
    This is being hyped into something that it is not. We have this stupid "virtual learning center" that has a bunch of computer based courses that we have to take every quarter. They usually deal with policy/procedures, suicide, prevention, emergency preparedness, etc. They make both the administrative and LE employees complete those courses,. Many of us just scroll through the courses without reading them just to get them completed so we can get back to doing actual work.

    In this case, the "active shooter" course was one designed for office/administrative personnel. Some genius in DC put it on the list of required courses for all CBP employees, both law enforcement and non-enforcement. I am guessing that whoever did this probably never even looked closely at teh actual course before mandating it. A bunch of us made fun of the stupidity of making LE personnel do it, but nobody seriously believes that it reflects policy for us, because it doesn't. Our use of force training teaches nothing of the sort, and we even have a two weak training course for journeyman/senior agents that spends a significant amount of time on active shooter scenarios. Mandating this course was nothing more than a dumb mistake made by some administrator at DC that is being blown way out of proportion.
    ...
    Nicely clarified, and makes sense. Unfortunately, USA and Canadian Federal Government top-level mandarins are not that different in their inability to filter the BS from the diamonds.

    I want to provide an "atta-boy(and -girl)" to the DHS personnel @ Las Vegas International Airport for their professionalism when the Commissioner, her sister, brother-in-law and I went through there last month. There was no requirement for feces-hitting-the-fan response, but the gals and guys were certainly friendly and efficient.
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    I wouldn't take much from that required training. VA has a required training for all VA employees PMDB (Prevention and Management of Disruptive Behavior). Most the training there says that if a patient becomes disruptive or combative employees are not allowed to use any defensive skills other than turn and walk away. I just tell employees when they ask me about it, just ball up on the floor, take the a**whoopin till we get there. We are getting Active Shooter training that requires us to go towards the shooter, eliminate the threat and deal with injured afterwards. Most of the training is general training that doesn't directly apply to law enforcement segment.
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    They pretty much just screwed then selves in leaking this, since all the badguy has to do is go in shooting an he will getty away.
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