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    Civilian Army CID

    I've been trying to get into the Army CID civilian positions. I'm 31 with 6 years of federal leo with a land management agency but I'm not a vet. Any suggestions.

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    CID tends to look for folks with Criminal Investigation and Fraud Investigation backgrounds..... as one of the main units that uses Civilian Agents is the Fraud Unit.

    A lot of the slots go to Enlisted Agents that do their time on the Enlisted side of the house then get out.....no need to send them thru CID School at FLW as there are no waivers no matter how much experience you have.

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    I have seen it happen, but it's rare.. In most openings, the unit already knows who hey are gong to choose. The application process is just a technicality for legal issues..

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    If you really want in... Either enlist or apply for warrant in the USAR as CID. I now a couple guys who did this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superjock22 View Post
    I have seen it happen, but it's rare.. In most openings, the unit already knows who hey are gong to choose. The application process is just a technicality for legal issues..
    I've gottten my resume pulled a few times....but never a call. I finally got a hold of some folks at HQ that I know and posted what I was told.... but they said from time-to-time they will look outside that and hire others that quailify.

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    I had a good buddy of mine who was a fraud guy with AFOSI - he worked really closely with CID (MPFU) and eventually got picked up by them. He's a FLETC grad and did not have to attend any follow-on academy with CID either. I know it helped out a lot that he worked closely with the same office that picked him up. Through talking with him, Bearcat is on point. They don't do a whole lot of hiring outside of former CID enlisted folks. That said, when they do hire outside they typically go towards folks they know, have worked with, or get a recommendation from somone currently working in that office. Regardless, if you dont apply you certianly wont get picked up. I've applied to over 100 1811 positions within the last year (many with CID) and just now got picked up with another agency. It seems 1811 positions are getting harder to come by now then they were a few years ago. Keep applying!
    Last edited by RMS1811; 06-04-2012 at 09:39 AM. Reason: info
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    I know a former NPS Ranger who is with CID. He never attended Army CID basic as they accepted his CITP from FLETC so it can happen. I would reach out the office you are interested and put a face with application.
    ...and is commended as being worthy of trust and confidence

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    Quote Originally Posted by OIG1811 View Post
    I know a former NPS Ranger who is with CID. He never attended Army CID basic as they accepted his CITP from FLETC so it can happen. I would reach out the office you are interested and put a face with application.
    Thats possible for the Fraud Unit as they list the location....but some of the ones I've been knocking at were at HQ and no one seems to know who is hiring for what spot when you inquire.....

    Silly bastards did pull mine for a gig out here.... Too bad they've never called...nor have I got the screw off email.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcat357 View Post
    Thats possible for the Fraud Unit as they list the location....but some of the ones I've been knocking at were at HQ and no one seems to know who is hiring for what spot when you inquire.....

    Silly bastards did pull mine for a gig out here.... Too bad they've never called...nor have I got the screw off email.....
    If you already an 1811 it's cheaper for CID to hire you. This is why they prefer hiring separated enlisted and WO CID agents. Never hurts to apply though..

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    I applied to one recently and received a referred to selecting official email and then within an hour received a not selected email. I assume many of these positions are spoken for as stated above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superjock22 View Post
    If you already an 1811 it's cheaper for CID to hire you. This is why they prefer hiring separated enlisted and WO CID agents. Never hurts to apply though..
    True....but when some of the annoucements state you don't need FLETC/CID school as they will use what you have.... I've got a 900 hour academy plus over 2K worth of continuing ed....plus 10 years in the field as a Investigator..... it tends to leave you a bit boggled that they don't call.

    It is what it is .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcat357 View Post
    True....but when some of the annoucements state you don't need FLETC/CID school as they will use what you have.... I've got a 900 hour academy plus over 2K worth of continuing ed....plus 10 years in the field as a Investigator..... it tends to leave you a bit boggled that they don't call.

    It is what it is .....
    In open announcements they will automatically state that FLETC CID school is required as a prerequisite. But the truth is they rarely hire outside CID. I have seen non CID personnel get in, but it's rare. I was interviewd a few times and this was the info that was passed along to me from a supervisor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superjock22 View Post
    In open announcements they will automatically state that FLETC CID school is required as a prerequisite. But the truth is they rarely hire outside CID. I have seen non CID personnel get in, but it's rare. I was interviewd a few times and this was the info that was passed along to me from a supervisor.
    As stated above, I know folks within CID and we've chatted..... it is what it is.

    Same with the entire Sex Crimes Investigator mess. They wanted to hire completely outside folks to do the stuff.... Sent 6-7 of the new hires to CID School....and 1 graduated. Several quit because they didn't like going to schol.....and several of the others quit because they didn't freaking realize they had to carry guns and might have to deal with bad people.....

    Big Army was ticked at the hiring folks on that one....and I doubt they ever get to hire folks again....which is a good thing....

    Oh well....I maybe going to Europe for the AF as a GS-13/14 and just stop toying with crap like this...

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    i think well rounded "civlian" agent core is a good thing. Too many of them still think like the military, which is fine b/c it is "military outfit", but civlians are not NCOs and shouldn't be treated as such. Civlians SA with various backgrounds bring change and innovation to the agency. Look at OSI, NCIS, CGIS, they have benefited from civiian SA. I think the civilians think like cops while many of the CID guys think like military. Check their weapon, don't carry off duty, and don't think like "traditional cops". That is not to say they are not good SA but the agency could be so much more.

    I know a civilian SA and his stories amaze me, CID management seems more concerned about shielding the brass the conducting "progressive criminal investigations".
    ...and is commended as being worthy of trust and confidence

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    Quote Originally Posted by OIG1811 View Post
    i think well rounded "civlian" agent core is a good thing. Too many of them still think like the military, which is fine b/c it is "military outfit", but civlians are not NCOs and shouldn't be treated as such. Civlians SA with various backgrounds bring change and innovation to the agency. Look at OSI, NCIS, CGIS, they have benefited from civiian SA. I think the civilians think like cops while many of the CID guys think like military. Check their weapon, don't carry off duty, and don't think like "traditional cops". That is not to say they are not good SA but the agency could be so much more.

    I know a civilian SA and his stories amaze me, CID management seems more concerned about shielding the brass the conducting "progressive criminal investigations".
    Good post and I agree with you.

    Too bad CID doesn't send their folks to FLETC and do add on at FLW. I think it would give the SA's a better mindset than by just going to CID School. And yes, I've said this at meetings while working for the Army and got death stares.....

    Oh well.....it is what it is.....

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    Do either one of you (Bearcat/OIG1811) know why CID doesnt send agents to FLETC? It seems as if it would only benefit the agency. OSI used to have their own academy until 2003 (I think) when they started sending Agents to FLETC. Now, I know this created some problems with Military Agents having that golden FLETC cert...many, myself included, would jump ship at the end of their service commitment and seek civilian positions within the agency OR in other agencies. There is a catch, however, as a military agent you're NOT an 1811. Although you have the training, you dont have that long sought after SF-50 stating you're an 1811...so you can't apply to or even be considered for 1811 positions open only to current 1811s. Regardless, it seems strange CID hasnt switched over to FLETC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMS1811 View Post
    Do either one of you (Bearcat/OIG1811) know why CID doesnt send agents to FLETC? It seems as if it would only benefit the agency. OSI used to have their own academy until 2003 (I think) when they started sending Agents to FLETC. Now, I know this created some problems with Military Agents having that golden FLETC cert...many, myself included, would jump ship at the end of their service commitment and seek civilian positions within the agency OR in other agencies. There is a catch, however, as a military agent you're NOT an 1811. Although you have the training, you dont have that long sought after SF-50 stating you're an 1811...so you can't apply to or even be considered for 1811 positions open only to current 1811s. Regardless, it seems strange CID hasnt switched over to FLETC.
    The US Army's CID doesn't have it's "own" school. Instead it's a 15-week Apprentice Special Agent Course at the U.S. Army Military Police School. And you are correct, military agents have no civilian jurisdiction and just recently were allowed to carry off base while traveling on US Army orders in the scope of their duties. In some reserve CID units badges and guns are locked up. Not sure if this has changes but these "were" the proceedures for miltary personnel. Now, civilians are FLEOs and can conceal carry off and on base without being in their scope of duty. Civilian SA don't investigat military personnel, rather only sticking to civilians who commit crime on base or fruad units. While working as a FAM military CID agents would show me orders most of the time ( even though I never asked to see them). Very confusing if you ask me..lol
    Last edited by Superjock22; 06-06-2012 at 11:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMS1811 View Post
    Do either one of you (Bearcat/OIG1811) know why CID doesnt send agents to FLETC?
    No clue....no clue at all.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by RMS1811 View Post
    Do either one of you (Bearcat/OIG1811) know why CID doesnt send agents to FLETC?
    Because it's the Army.
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    I have looked into CID. I am in the Guard and very few states have CID units. It's easier where I come from to just join USAR then go CID. I went to CAPITat FLW with a few civilian CID agents who were paid well and loved their jobs

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    Quote Originally Posted by OIG1811 View Post
    i think well rounded "civlian" agent core is a good thing. Too many of them still think like the military, which is fine b/c it is "military outfit", but civlians are not NCOs and shouldn't be treated as such. Civlians SA with various backgrounds bring change and innovation to the agency. Look at OSI, NCIS, CGIS, they have benefited from civiian SA. I think the civilians think like cops while many of the CID guys think like military. Check their weapon, don't carry off duty, and don't think like "traditional cops". That is not to say they are not good SA but the agency could be so much more.

    I know a civilian SA and his stories amaze me, CID management seems more concerned about shielding the brass the conducting "progressive criminal investigations".
    I tend to agree. A while back I attended a presentation on gang members in the military. While I am not sure if the problem is as bad as was presented, it seemed that CID brass was more concerned with denying their existence then actually trying to solve the problem. I think additional civilian investigators and management would help reduce outside influences that might otherwise hinder proper investigative efforts.
    Last edited by o2force; 06-06-2012 at 10:05 PM.

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    I'll chime in here as I'm former active duty CID and currently a Reserve Agent. As far as the school, it's now called CIDSAC and it is specifically for Army CID, Marine CID, Marine NCIS S/A's, and Civilian MPFU S/A's who have not attended FLETC or some other recognized academy. Military S/A's can and do carry their weapons off-post and fly armed, mainly in conjunction w/ protection missions but for investigative activity as well. MPFU does investigate servicemembers as well as civilians; when it comes to fraud, usually anything over 100K goes to MPFU. There are other reasons why MPFU would investigate servicemembers, but it is all driven by the regs. Military S/A's investigate civilians all the time, mainly for sex crimes, but for various other offenses as well, e.g., drugs, theft, etc. CID has a MOU w/ DOJ regarding prosecution of civilians, and most of the time, they (FBI) decline. Regarding FLETC, USAMPS recently received accreditation from FLETA, so any move to Glynco is way off, if non-existent. Being a graduate of ASAC and CITP, I believe CID should definitely send agents to FLETC w/ a CID add-on; especially MPFU agents. ASAC focuses on military law and heavily on crime scene processing and and interviews/interrogations. CITP is a good overview of Federal law enforcement and teaches a good deal about firearms, tactics, more realistic scenarios. As far as getting hired on w/ MPFU, good luck; you need to know someone on the inside to get your foot in the door. In my opinion, CID will NEVER change until they get some good cop-minded, civilian agents who were never CID agents, or better yet were former street cops, to take over management.

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    In my opinion, CID will NEVER change until they get some good cop-minded, civilian agents who were never CID agents, or better yet were former street cops, to take over management.
    Without a change in policy is that even really possible?

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    You made a great point - CID, like OSI is a military run orginziation. I cant speak for CID but as far as OSI is concerned, it doesnt matter how many civilians you thorw at the agency, until you replace the military commander and miltiary command staff with a civilian director and civilian leadership staff, it's still going to be run a lot differnetly than any strictly civilian agency. I think NCIS and DCIS are as close as MCIOs/DCIOs will get to a civlian LE agency...not necessarily a bad thing - just a different beast. That said, MCIO agency have a drastically different charter than most other LE agencies. There aren't many (note I said many) civilian LE agencies that are going outside the wire in combat zones to conduct counterintelligence (or other) activities. Although civilians within OSI conduct those same missions, they are never "in charge" as civilian agents cant lead military actions within a war-zone. Again, just differnt beasts. Thanks for the great info, bdc.

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    very well said, the army doesn't want to change. I think should happen, maybe with DoD pending cuts it is something the bean counters will look at. Civilian CID is for FEDLEO, but as far as the army hq, they dont' see them any different than military agents and treat them as such.
    ...and is commended as being worthy of trust and confidence

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