View Poll Results: What do you think is the best service weapon choice policy?

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  • Single standard issue weapons ONLY, including off duty

    2 1.96%
  • Standard issue for primary, but off duty is officer's choice

    23 22.55%
  • Multiple standard issue choices but no personal firearms

    11 10.78%
  • Standard issue, but officers can carry personal w/ approval

    57 55.88%
  • No standard issue; officer responsible for own weapons

    9 8.82%
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  1. #26
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    Don't get caught up in the assumption that the only reason someone might need to swap magazines is because someone expended their ammunition. Officers have been documented as coming out of a ground fight without magazines, having lost them along the way in foot pursuits, having damaged them after using them as impact devises, being trapped pending rescue were the extra mags were comforting if not necessary, etc. Every day events? No. Unheard of? No.

  2. #27
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    I like the freedom of choice because like it has been said, not every gun will fit every person.
    I was forced to carry a Glock 45G.A.P. (dont remember the model #) then a Glock 22 in .40 and now I choose to carry a Glock 21Gen4 in .45- the 21gen4 IMO is the best gun I've ever shot. Always been biased towards Glocks, but I never cared for the .40 cal.
    Oh, and I don't agree with the everyone needs the same magazines and ammo...If were in a gunfight and you have already used all 3 of your magazines I sure as heck am not gonna toss you one of mine. Use your b.u.g. (get one if you don't already) and fight back to somewhere where you can get a rifle.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEDP View Post
    My partners a horrible shot and we both know it. lol
    .
    My last partner is just the opposite. He'll never use any ammo ...

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    ..., having damaged them after using them as impact devises, ...
    Say again your last?

  5. #30
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    They occasionally get put to good use as improvised impact devises. For example, someone finds themselves rolling around, perceives a gun grab, and comes up with a magazine in their support hand, which is then used to good effect against the assailant's head. Sure, they'd rather be shooting, stabbing, or striking with a more suitable impact devise, but the violence of the moment doesn't always allow for things like that. Or maybe that is all they have? Anyway, feed lips sometimes bend under such stress loads. That's not what they're designed for, after all.
    Last edited by Erik; 04-04-2012 at 08:35 PM.

  6. #31
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    It was implied in an earlier post that detectives are poorly equiped. I carry two spare 16 round mags, a TASER, a knife, a good combat light, and an ASP. I might not always have a radio, but I carry two phones. I like the extra pockets sport coats have...

    There's another .40 pistol, a shotgun, and an AR in the truck

    We're not all behind the times.
    Last edited by KenW.; 04-04-2012 at 10:09 PM.
    I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    They occasionally get put to good use as improvised impact devises. For example, someone finds themselves rolling around, perceives a gun grab, and comes up with a magazine in their support hand, which is then used to good effect against the assailant's head. Sure, they'd rather be shooting, stabbing, or striking with a more suitable impact devise, but the violence of the moment doesn't always allow for things like that. Or maybe that is all they have? Anyway, feed lips sometimes bend under such stress loads. That's not what they're designed for, after all.
    OK, I never thought about removing the magazine from the magazine pouch and using it as an impact weapon. Now I have 'pistol whipped' a few men with my S&W BUG over the years.

    Its all good when you need to make it thru the shift.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawdawg45 View Post
    Wow, I commend you on your tactical equipping, but you have to know that you're in the minority of Detectives, at least around here. Now, our Gang and Street Force Detectives might be on par with you, but can you imagine our financial crimes Detectives armored like that?

    LD
    I really try to stay out of my cubicle and get into the sectors. We're changing to tens, and will be dispatched along with patrol on certain calls. We're also going to soft uniforms instead of shirt, tie, and coat all the time. Civilian professional dress will be required for certain things though.
    I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Che View Post
    My last partner is just the opposite. He'll never use any ammo ...


    That's not good either.
    .

  10. #35
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    We have always been issued a duty weapon that, if in patrol, was a full size edition of that particular make and model. Beginning several years back, Detectives had the option of choosing the mid-size or compact, depending on the make (no subcompact for duty carry) instead of the full size version.

    With my first agency, you had a choice of either a S&W .38 revolver issued by the Sheriff or you could provide your own weapon and the Sheriff would provide the ammo, holster and mag pouches. I chose to purchase a G21 and I really liked it. Then I came to my current agency and I've carried what they issued patrol ever since, always in .40 cal.

    Our dept now allows OD or BUGs within a certain range of calibers, from .45acp down with .380 being the smallest and allowed only for OD carry. The weapon has to be inspected and approved by the rangemaster and you can forget any tuning, whether done professionally or by yourself. It has to be stock except for night sights or grips. We have to qualify with it on a 50 round course, day and night, with the same grain weight of the ammo we will carry and the department will issue us ammo if we want to carry what they provide, which is a quality brand. We can also carry factory ammo of our choice as long as it is the same grain as what we used to qualify.

    Most of my career, I've carried an identical weapon as the rest of the department and I haven't really had any issues with it and I don't know of any instances where our officers or any other agency's officers around here needing to borrow mags from one another. The biggest problem I have with our agency's policy is the prohibition of carrying ANY additional ammo for our duty weapons besides what is issued. We have a loaded gun and two spare mags.....and any BUG we may have qualified with, with us. That's it.
    "...Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by HEDP View Post
    That's not good either.
    .
    Roger that, just a 'frat boy' on the job.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by reils49 View Post
    ...A warnig that still has not been heeded by some agencies.
    Hell my dept still carries 9mm and forgot about patrol rifles or shotguns that is not going to happen in liberal NYC. For Christ sakes they finally starting training guys in active shooters and only because the feds are picking up the dime.

  13. #38
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    I like what a San Diego P.D. Chief said about the mag swap. It went something like this, "right, I am going to give you my mag because you ran out of bullets, I don't think so." I think my department thinks we will do a mag swap. I do carry a go bag with 3 extra G22 mags in it. One of the officers made fun of me for having it. The other officer said, "he has extra mags, I am going to be nice to him. When I run out, I know he would give me a magazine." lol I was think, sure I will lol It was an up hill battle to get ARs. Now that we can carry them I am trying to get the department issue 2 PMag to the officers. We got 40 something PMags, 7 ARs and 12 officers. Good luck with that.
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." -- Winston Churchill

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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawdawg45 View Post
    Common weaponry and caliber is the logical choice for me, and the military tends to agree with that logic.

    LD
    The military has an offensive mission which calls for a higher number of rounds fired, fired at a much higher cyclical rate and uses larger caliber weapons.

    That's not logical for middle American policing.

    By the way...if I'm in such close proximity where I can share a mag, I can also engage in the fight myself. Self-preservation is inherent to being human. Now, if I'm somehow incapacitated and cannot return fire myself, surrendering ammo would be expected. However, that's still a mentality of a survivalist.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrsaints75 View Post
    I like what a San Diego P.D. Chief said about the mag swap. It went something like this, "right, I am going to give you my mag because you ran out of bullets, I don't think so." I think my department thinks we will do a mag swap. I do carry a go bag with 3 extra G22 mags in it. One of the officers made fun of me for having it. The other officer said, "he has extra mags, I am going to be nice to him. When I run out, I know he would give me a magazine." lol I was think, sure I will lol It was an up hill battle to get ARs. Now that we can carry them I am trying to get the department issue 2 PMag to the officers. We got 40 something PMags, 7 ARs and 12 officers. Good luck with that.
    you cant buy your own pmags? i carry 7 pmags, 10 Glock 17 mags, and 7 Glock 21 mags
    In Valor there is hope

  16. #41
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    I could buy my own pmags. I have 5 of them for personnel use my department likes to supply us with everything. If I can get two or more for free, why not. It is how I got extra Glock mags for free I carry at work fyi I have a ton of Glock mags at home ready to go lol
    "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." -- Winston Churchill

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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawdawg45 View Post
    Common weaponry and caliber is the logical choice for me, and the military tends to agree with that logic.

    LD
    Good for you. Then you are good to go. But you put a few years under your belt you will see we are talking apples and oranges.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawdawg45 View Post
    I was referencing their 9mm sidearm.
    Nice try.

    You do realize the military pistol is a last ditch weapon immediately preceding hand-to-hand combat/knife work don't you? The military knows handgun round are comparatively ineffective for what their missions are.

  19. #44
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    :fekkingfacepalm:

  20. #45
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    +1 on the fekkingfacepalm

  21. #46
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    We can use whatever firearm we like, as long as it's 9mm, 40, or 45. No 1911s (sucks).

    The downside is our Command staff is VERY against weapon mounted lights, lasers, or anything of the sort. I'm a big fan of weapon mounted lights (lasers not so much), so I hope this policy is changed.

    We used issued M4s, and I'm also hoping policy changes and we're allowed to buy our own. I just don't trust that the ones we're issued are clean or will work when needed. I don't want to find out something is wrong as I'm running into an active shooter situation.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawdawg45 View Post
    Maybe you could state your frustration and educate a non military LEO to your point.

    LD
    The military fields roughly a dozen different handguns. While the Beretta may be the lion's share, there's still a good assortment of manufacturers that do not offer magazine and ammo interchangability. Glock, Sig, H&K, and a few 1911s. The unit's TO&E dictate which items are held in the armory. There are also differences in caliber as they use 9mm, .40 S&W and. 45 ACP.

  23. #48
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    In the military, the mission trumps all including personal safety. Completely different environment which is why they should rarely be compared. The includes gross generalizations.

    And for the record, I never said you were an idiot.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawdawg45 View Post
    Why thank you!
    Never said I didn't think it, just that I didn't say it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawdawg45 View Post
    You must admit though if the military approached arming the troops as some have suggested for their department, allowing them to choose the weapon and caliber, it potentially could be a chaotic firefight.
    No one has to admit that, because there's no way in hell it would ever happen. It's a standing army, not a ragtag militia. To allow that to happen would be a logistical clusterf*&k and that's just the beginning of the shenanigans that would ensue.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawdawg45 View Post
    ... but for those SHTF moments, ...

    Maybe the forum could answer this for me..... then arm the entire force
    Do not forget this a national forum. One member belongs to a PD of 34,500 and another is on one of 12. That recent SHTF moment in Utah involved four different agencies. You going to do a mag swap with Constable Bob? You are that close you should be engaged until the fight is over.

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