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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mister_murphy View Post
    Thats pretty much the gist of it. I guess I am more concerned about any legal challenges that may come up now with this change.

    Any chance that they may claim excessive force the next time I deal with one of these guys, and do use the force required? As long as I am within policy I dont see an issue really.
    Agree with the two answers below 100%
    Quote Originally Posted by jakflak View Post
    1) Not likely. Justify your actions in the situation. The only confused one will be the regular customer. "The officer was mean" is not a defense, and you don't need to fear a lawsuit if your actions were legal and reasonable, regardless of his expectations based on your actions in the past.

    2) Yes, you can. You did what you did based on his actions and your knowledge of his actions based on previous actions. I have a 'regular customer' who gets asked nicely once, then tased. Nothing in between for him because I've fought him too many times.
    Quote Originally Posted by USMARINE View Post
    You bet your butt you will be challenged in court, it happens all the time but if you know what you're doing, you'll be fine.

    Realize that on any given day, anything can happen but absolutely use prior knowledge of said knucklehead.
    If you are within policy and within the law a legal challenge to your actions won't go anywhere that bothers you

    Quote Originally Posted by mister_murphy View Post
    Basically the Chief was telling me I can use more force now, instead of being a "punching bag" so to speak, as I was discouraged from using force in the past with regulars like this one.
    THIS is a good thing....................your boss is telling you NOW to follow your use of force "ladder" instead of being restricted to the bottom rung.

    Quote Originally Posted by JLee View Post
    Heh, I came in to address that as well but I see it's been handled already. Force use should be reasonable, but not the "minimum necessary."
    The LAW states that all force should be reasonable.........................

    POLICY often states that you use the minimum amount of force to handle the situation
    "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon - no matter how good you are, the pigeon will still crap all over the board and strut around like it won anyway."



    I don't know it all, I know a little about a lot and a lot about a little---slamdunc


    I have discussed religion and politics over morning coffee with men who have killed people, you don't scare me.

  2. #27
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    CruiserClass's Avatar
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    You are not required to use the minimum force necessary. My department specifically went over that at our last in-service. You are required to be REASONABLE in your use of force, but not use the minimum. Say someone refuses to get out of a car and they have a felony warrant. Forming a perimeter for two days and letting them pass out from dehydration requires no force at all, but is that reasonable to expect of law enforcement? Who even knows what the minimum force necessary was? You can't use hindsight and say, well, maybe I could have done that with two punches instead of three. You must use REASONABLE force, not minimum, force, based on what YOU knew at the time you used it. Now if that 3rd punch was after he was cuffed and compliant, that's not reasonable. Maybe he had enough at two and was about to give up but you weren't able to recognize that before the 3rd strike landed, then you realize he is surrendering and you cuffed him. That's not minimum, but its reasonable.

    What you know at the time includes your prior knowledge of the suspect if he's been violent with officers before, how close your back up is, etc. etc.

    Any department that tells you its part of your job to "take lumps" is...I can't think of an apt description that really encompasses how wrong that is.

  3. #28
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    deleted...
    Last edited by mister_murphy; 03-24-2012 at 01:27 AM.

  4. #29
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    11b101abn's Avatar
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    WTF is w/ all the deleted comments?

  5. #30
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    USMARINE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11b101abn View Post
    WTF is w/ all the deleted comments?
    I'm guessing he's been discovered and that black ops have come for him....lol
    "Naw officer, I was hanging with my cousin"

    "Sooo, real cousin or play cousins ?"

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperST View Post
    I'm thinking a battalion of menstruating bearded women could kick some serious booty!

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