Thread: NCIC Expungment
09-02-2011, 06:06 PM #1
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Hello, I have a question for any of you well versed in records procedures. First let me say I'm not a LEO, I am an EMT and former 911 dispatcher. I have a problem that has been an issue for the last 13 years and can't figure out how to deal with it without spending lots of money on an attorney.
I was involved in a freakish accident at a traffic light in which I pulled out into the intersection, then slapped the truck into reverse to back up, unfortunately in the process I hit the car behind me doing substantial damage to the vehicle, but none of the four occupants were injured. There was an officer parked less than a block ahead of the scene at the time, on traffic duty, from his perspective, he thought this was intentional, and arrested me on 2nd wanton endangerment, which is a class A misdemeanor here in KY, and is a reportable offense.
After going to court, the judge agreed to a dismissal of charges and an expungement of all records relating to the case. Somewhere along the line something happened and records made it into LINK/NCIC.
The city police (arresting agency), and the county court system have no record of this incident, KY state police show the arrest, but state "unknown disposition", and NCIC has the info and prints as well.
I have talked to FBI in Clarksburg, as well as KSP Frankfort, but I can't get a straight answer from them regarding getting rid of the records!
I have the original court documents ordering expungement, but they have only the county court case number, date, charges, my name, judge's signature, etc, and KSP won't honor the expungement order without my SSN and BD on the paperwork. Needless to say, this is the only paperwork in existence.
Two of the county EMS operations that I have worked for found this information and questioned me about it with no ill effect, I simply explained, and stated I was not obligated to reveal the arrest. One hospital I worked for found the information and was not nearly as pleased, needless to say I left after 29 days of employment.
Quite frankly, with all the post 9/11 screening in place it's making my life Hell; it was dismissed and expunged because no crime was actually committed, but I am still paying the price for the arrest.
Does anyone know how to force KSP and/or FBI to honor the certified court order I have???
09-02-2011, 09:28 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jan 2004
- Montgomery Alabama
I wish to make two points to you, one of which might not apply in your situation. In a police background investigation, there really is no such thing as an expungement. Background Investigators routinely access records which have been expunged/sealed. In your particular case, and as a practical matter, YOU are not going to force either the FBI or the KSP to honor the court order you reference. I capitalized YOU for a reason. I suggest you retain the services of an Attorney. I understand you not wanting to spend the money which will be involved, but it's going to be required if you have any realistic hopes of resolving this situation. You may have to do some shopping around to find an Attorney really conversant with this type situation. Doing so is about the only way I see of you resolving this problem. Be prepared for this to take some time, and yes, cost you some money.
09-02-2011, 11:21 PM #3
Sorry but you need legal assistance -----------not armchair quarterbacking from some anonymous person on the internet who tell the world they are cops.
But on a side note....................what PhilipCal stated about a police background is true. Even expunged records will be accessed by an investigator...................they will know about the arrest etc. If you are applying for a public safety position it is MUCH better for you to bring it up than for the investigator to find out by an outside source.
Also no matter how thorough an expungement..........there will always be traces of an incident................I have discussed religion and politics over morning coffee with men who have killed people, you don't scare me.
09-03-2011, 12:14 PM #4
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
Yep, +1000 What Iowa said. Filing something like this pro se, you are likely to find many pitfalls. Get an attorney. Many times when the agency knows that an attorney is involved they get off of center and do it.Ut humiliter opinor
09-03-2011, 02:56 PM #5
There's a difference between an arrest and a conviction. Making the arrest disappear is pretending that it didn't happen. It did happen. You'd still have to disclose that you were arrested or you would be lying, regardless of what is recorded in FBI or state BI records.
Last edited by Resq14; 09-03-2011 at 02:59 PM.
A L L H A V E G I V E N S O M E, B U T S O M E H A V E G I V E N A L L
09-04-2011, 11:08 AM #6
In NY any arrest that results in a dismissal is sealed from the public. However, any seasoned investigator understands that when the name search come back "no public record", there has been an arrest. Almost impossible to keep it completely hidden.
09-04-2011, 01:49 PM #7
09-04-2011, 03:44 PM #8
- Join Date
- Jan 2010
- Kansas City
Very unusual for a judge to ask for complete expungment of all records for a case. Especially in something like this, where you did commit a crime (unlawful backing/inattentive driving/whatever it's called in KY), the only issue is of whether or not it is intentional. Is there any more to this story?
09-08-2011, 04:42 AM #9
I can't speak for your state records, but NCIC is for law enforcement only and because you were charged the arrest will be on there. The record will have the charge, arresting agency, and note there was no conviction. This should only be seen by law enforcement. The public records is what will not list anything unless there is a conviction, and they are maintained at the state level. Don't worry about NCIC, even Congress cannot change an entry on the FBI's computer - but if local non-LE agencies are getting the information your beef is with the state system.
I can't help to think there is more to this story...Taking a year off to travel the USA with my family. You can follow our adventures on our website: www.TheGreatAdventureTour.com
09-08-2011, 05:56 AM #10This is for all you parents that like to put your kids names on the back of your mini-vans.
STOP IT! There are predators that will use that information against them!
10-03-2011, 09:16 PM #11
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Been really busy and had not had time to look at this. Really only started popping up post 09/11 as most states require NCIC check for initial cert/recert now, and it does show up. So basically I'm stuck appearing like a bad guy for ever in the eyes of employers I guess. Oh well, not much I can do as EMS pay sucks way to bad to pay thousands to an attorney, and still have no guarantee of success.
10-03-2011, 09:26 PM #12
Once again on every application form OR every background investigation form I have ever seen there is ample room (or the ability to attach expanded descriptions) to explain the stuff that doesn't fit on the forms.
Articulation of your situation and the steps you have already taken to remove the "record" of this incident might help-----if you realize that you must acknowledge that it actually happened.I have discussed religion and politics over morning coffee with men who have killed people, you don't scare me.
10-04-2011, 10:49 AM #13
As already conveyed by several respondents, the arrest is one matter where the final disposition is another. While it is possible to have records expunged, sealed or otherwise covered from general access; they never go away completely. Even if the paper was removed, the incident still occurred and in 99.999% of the cases, you would still need to disclose the arrest in the course of application with a law enforcement/public safety agency. While you will likely be given the opportunity to proffer an explanation, you would need to disclose the incident.
The FBI (Criminal Justice Information Service) http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis is only the repository for information submitted by outside entities. They can and will remove/redact records they hold, provided they are notified by the submitting agency/court.
See the following-
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/fin...ion-submission with particular attention to Section III.