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  1. #26
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    Konami, please do not take my comment about officers being fired by MPDC and going to PSD as slant toward the department. I have stated on this board before about how I respected Chief Cannon for giving officers second chances.

    As for DC Statehood I find that to be absurd. If DC wanted to be a state so bad why did they sell out DOC and get rid of its prison and give all the prison (not jail) responsibility to the FEDs. DC wants the perks of being a state but doesn't have the tax base to sustain the essential services a state provides.

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    On the first part, I didn't take it as an insult, just wanted to clarify for the readers. No harm, no foul.

    On the second part, I agree 100%. It is absurd that DC wants Daddy Fed to pay for everything, yet wants autonomy. (Sounds like my kid.) But I believe they should start handling their business if they ever want to be taken seriously as a candidate for autonomous rule.

    I think it's great that PSPD has some hard chargers trying to make their department relevant and meaningful. I wish MPD had more people like that. Someone from PSPD updates their Wikipedia regularly, if a bit over-zealously. That, to me, is a sign of officers who really want their department to be something good.

    As for my post with the "State Police" cruiser, it was done somewhat sarcastically, as I don't believe the council would ever sign off on such a thing, and MPD would fight it to the death as they would lose power and funding (photo radar, etc).

    IMO, the building height limitation law is what kills DC. As they are unable to build above a certain height (buildings can not be higher than the width of the road the building sits on), they are losing hundreds of millions in tax revenue. If an office building downtown could have two to three times as many offices, the District could cultivate two to three times the tax revenue.
    Last edited by brave_konami; 07-03-2011 at 09:40 PM.
    10-8, 10-99.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRONWORKER View Post
    If DC wanted to be a state so bad why did they sell out DOC and get rid of its prison and give all the prison (not jail) responsibility to the FEDs. DC wants the perks of being a state but doesn't have the tax base to sustain the essential services a state provides.
    The Congress of the United States made that call, not the DC Government... the taxpayers of the District pay more in federal income taxes than the citizens of 13 REAL states... they deserve a VOTING voice in Congress just like everyone else. That is what statehood strives to accomplish... to end TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, which is alive and well in the capitol of the nation which was founded on abolishing such things.

  4. #29
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    Konami, I find DC's lack of skyline something unique about the city; Arlington's sky scrapers actually annoy me being so close to the city but thats just my personal opinion.

    DCPS I disagree 100% about DC having statehood, the city was not designed for it nor can they sustain statehood without major federal funding. I do not want to go back and forth on the pros and cons of statehood because I do not want this to become a political debate. I agree to disagree about that.

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    and that's one of the myth's about the District of Columbia... since 1973, the District has operated as a de facto state; without the rights and privileges of statehood (i.e. Congressional representation, local decisions by local people, etc). The District already assumes the burden of being a state, so there would be no extra costs involved, aside from the salary that the elected Representative and two Senators would receive.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by IRONWORKER View Post
    I like the older design better, while I understand how the white base might be cost effective because Housing and MPDC cars are already white I think the font makes it look like an SPO vehicle. Too many citizens and LEOs already believe PSD are SPOs this design is not helping them out.
    Why would it matter if the car looks like a SPO vehicle. They are SPO

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marylandle View Post
    They are SPO
    Errr....No....they're not.....

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marylandle View Post
    Why would it matter if the car looks like a SPO vehicle. They are SPO
    Dude Come On! Give them the credit they deserve. They are not a SPO. They are in fact certified Law Enforcement Officers (Police Officers) of the District of Columbia. You should check the facts before you regurgitate your rubbish here........

  9. #34
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    That is what I was talking about, a lot of MPDC officers and high ranking officials also believe they are SPOs.

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    I think part of the misunderstanding comes from the fact that PSPD officers go through MPD's Security Officers Management Branch to receive the city's blessing to carry a firearm. Since that's the agency that licenses security guards and commissions SPOs, a lot of people think PSPD officers are getting their "SPO Commission" from SOMB, when that is actually not the case.
    10-8, 10-99.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    I think part of the misunderstanding comes from the fact that PSPD officers go through MPD's Security Officers Management Branch to receive the city's blessing to carry a firearm. Since that's the agency that licenses security guards and commissions SPOs, a lot of people think PSPD officers are getting their "SPO Commission" from SOMB, when that is actually not the case.
    There is legislation pending which once passed will clearify PSPD's statutory authority and clear up this ridiculousness once and for all.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCPSDcop View Post
    There is legislation pending which once passed will clearify PSPD's statutory authority and clear up this ridiculousness once and for all.
    There is a ton of misinformation on these forums. Part of the problem is people that post opinions and not fact, or have done thorough research. I have not only read the applicable regulations and such I have personally met with Sgt. Gibson who manages D.C. Security Officers Manangement Branch as well as the Lt. Regardless of the title that Protective Services Officers go by they are in Fact SPO. With the same type authority as that granted to University Special Police Officers. The only reason they are permitted to carry weapons off duty is because of LEOSA. PSPD says that the only reason they go through SOMB is because it is the vehicle in which they are granted powers since they are not otherwise granted powers by legislation. This is true. The same way university officers and the armed SPO/Guard that stands at the front of giant stores are. SOMB management has stated without any doubt, reservation, or uncertainty that PSPD are SPOs and nothing more. They in fact were reprimanding a PSPD guy that made a traffic stop in housing project area and attempted to make a DUI arrest. PSPD is not authorized to make routine traffic stops, although I have seen them do it.
    People speak of having SPO status as something negative. SPO's are law enforcement and have police powers on premises they are commissioned to protect. So stating PSPD is SPO's is not a slant and does not diminish there mission and function. I hope they do pass legislation to make PSPD full officers because otherwise their employees will spend un-necessary time attempting to convince the ignorant or the unaware that they are not SPO's.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    I think part of the misunderstanding comes from the fact that PSPD officers go through MPD's Security Officers Management Branch to receive the city's blessing to carry a firearm. Since that's the agency that licenses security guards and commissions SPOs, a lot of people think PSPD officers are getting their "SPO Commission" from SOMB, when that is actually not the case.
    Have you ever worked at SOMB? They are 100% going to SOMB to obtain their SPO Commission. I have first hand knowledge. Unless things have changed in the last four months, which they have not.......

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marylandle View Post
    Have you ever worked at SOMB? They are 100% going to SOMB to obtain their SPO Commission. I have first hand knowledge. Unless things have changed in the last four months, which they have not.......
    First off, anyone can come on here and say whatever they want. It doesn't make it true. Secondly, this thread is about the new PSPD cruiser design, not an argument over whether PSPD personnel are sworn law enforcement officers or special police officers.

    In regards to your statement that you met with Sgt Gibson and an unnamed Lieutenant... uhmm ok? And their opinion matters how? Even if it is true, the Attorney General of the District of Columbia already ruled otherwise in 2009. Additionally, the the Courts have also ruled otherwise (ever hear of Common Law)? And lastly, have you ever read DCMR 6A, Chapters 11 and 12? SPO Commissions are designed to be issued to privately employed security personnel... DC Government employees with CAREER APPOINTMENTS to their positions cannot be reappointed to their positions by the Mayor for one year at a time, when they already have a CAREER APPOINTMENT to the position from the Mayor.

    Now, if you want to start a thread to argue about special police, can you go ahead and do that? Kthnxbai!

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    Maybe they should pick up the highways, too (395, 295, 29, 50). Then MPD can focus its efforts in the communities instead of responding to 10-50s on the interstate.



    And since PSPD is moving out of DRES to General Services, in the event of natural or manmade event MPD can keep boots on the ground and the hereafter named DC State Police can man the highways to ensure traffic flow outbound.

    States have state capitol police (protecting state owned buildings) and state police/highway patrol (manning the interstates). This would handle both jobs in one compact agency.

    I'm sure the Council will fund a few million dollars for this endeavor.
    ???? Sorry for my ignorance but is there even such an agency that exists? Or there are talks about it?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marylandle View Post
    Have you ever worked at SOMB? They are 100% going to SOMB to obtain their SPO Commission. I have first hand knowledge. Unless things have changed in the last four months, which they have not.......
    Yes, I have worked at SOMB. They are obtaining a commission to carry a firearm. Their authority comes from statute, not an SPO license.

    SOMB can say whatever they want. That doesn't change the statute and the career appointment status of PSPD officers.

    Would you say that because Virginia law enforcement appointment standards are set by the Virginia DCJS (which regulates security officers), that all Virginia law enforcement are security officers?
    Last edited by brave_konami; 07-05-2011 at 04:23 PM.
    10-8, 10-99.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mp1161 View Post
    ???? Sorry for my ignorance but is there even such an agency that exists? Or there are talks about it?
    No, I made it up. In Photoshop. And I'm probably the only one talking about it.
    Last edited by brave_konami; 07-05-2011 at 04:18 PM.
    10-8, 10-99.

  18. #43
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    Reminds me a lot of FPS's design with a few modifications and no DHS symbol.. really too bad.. Blue and Gold were great colors for PSPD.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    Maybe they should pick up the highways, too (395, 295, 29, 50). Then MPD can focus its efforts in the communities instead of responding to 10-50s on the interstate.
    29 and 50 are in Maryland and Virginia. And allegedly MPD have a specialized unit by the name of TRAFFIC. What that unit does is a good question.

  20. #45
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    Negative

    Quote Originally Posted by CityCopDC View Post
    29 and 50 are in Maryland and Virginia. And allegedly MPD have a specialized unit by the name of TRAFFIC. What that unit does is a good question.
    New York Avenue is US Route 50

    Rhode Island Avenue and Georgia Avenue are US Route 29
    10-8, 10-99.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    New York Avenue is US Route 50
    Um no....while New York Ave (US Rte 50) may have that official designation, it is not an Interstate. It is a major arterial thoroughfare that either leads you out of the city in a north easternly direction untill you reach the Maryland line or a southwest direction to downtown. Once you happen upon the Maryland line, New York Ave (US Rte 50) then branches off to become the Baltimore Washington Parkway/I295 OR US Rte 50 aka The John Hanson Highway.

    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    Rhode Island Avenue and Georgia Avenue are US Route 29
    Incorrect again sir. Rhode Island Ave is US Rte 1


    Three U.S. routes pass through the district. U.S. 1, which cosigns with U.S. 50 in central Washington, provides a main route to northeastern Washington from government complex area. The highway follows Rhode Island as it exits the city towards College Park, Maryland. U.S. 1 Alternate follows U.S. 50 (New York Avenue) east from U.S. 1 to Bladensburg Road north to Cottage City and Edmonston, Maryland.

    U.S. 50 enters the district on a freeway that connects Washington with Annapolis and the Chesapeake Bay Bridge in Maryland. The route links Interstate 395 with the aforementioned freeway along New York Avenue. This street facilitates six lanes of travel with a 35 mile-per-hour speed limit. The highway cosigns with U.S. 1 along Sixth and Ninth Street into central Washington. The highway crosses the Potomac River along the Interstate 66 Theodore Roosevelt Memorial Bridge into Virginia.

    U.S. 50 enters Washington from Cheverly, Maryland as a freeway (John Hanson Highway) and travels New York Avenue west to a merge with U.S. 1 Alternate (Bladensburg Road). The freeway was originally intended to end at unconstructed Interstate 95 and 295 (East Leg Freeway) at Eckington.

    The last existing U.S. highway routed within the city is U.S. 29. The highway enters the city from Arlington, Virginia along the Francis Scott Key Bridge. Upon crossing into Washington, U.S. 29 intersects the eastern terminus of Interstate 66 via the Whitehurst Freeway. U.S. 29 heads north from K Street north of the government district to Silver Spring and Wheaton in Maryland.
    Furthermore, your comment
    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    Maybe they should pick up the highways, too (395, 295, 29, 50). Then MPD can focus its efforts in the communities instead of responding to 10-50s on the interstate.
    The only exception to this is the small portion of Rte 29 in the District thats actually on the Whitehurst freeway. The other portion which is Georgia Ave makes no sense because its a road in the traditional sense, not a highway.

    As I have shown you, 29 and 50 in and of itselves are NOT Interstates in the District. I395 and I295 are. And since they are not "highways", an MPD unit can handle it as he/she would any other 10-50 on a street or major thoroughfare.

    Last edited by CityCopDC; 07-25-2011 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Links

  22. #47
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    I agree that 29 and 50 are not interstates. They are part of the US highway system, however, and MPD receives federal funds to maintain and patrol them. My point was only that a designated agency would focus its efforts on these "thoroughfares", as you correctly labeled them, while MPD could focus its efforts in the neighborhoods. This is because I also agree with your comment about the apparent lack of any substantive duties for the traffic unit. Photo radar does not equal real enforcement. Other states realize that many criminals are intercepted through highway patrol activities.

    I have no illusions about any of this ever happening. I say it only because anyone who has worked as a police officer in the District knows full well that motorists drive recklessly and with impunity on these thoroughfares (as they do throughout the rest of the city's streets).

    My biggest concern has always been MPD's ability to respond to a wide-scale event that caused a lot of destruction and required the roads to be used for evacuation. There is no MPD unit that would immediately take responsibility for ensuring flow of traffic outbound on the thoroughfares/interstates. I was on-duty September 11th. It was gridlock for many, many hours. A designated highway patrol agency could do just that.
    10-8, 10-99.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    I agree that 29 and 50 are not interstates. They are part of the US highway system, however, and MPD receives federal funds to maintain and patrol them. My point was only that a designated agency would focus its efforts on these "thoroughfares", as you correctly labeled them, while MPD could focus its efforts in the neighborhoods.
    I dont agree. TRAFFIC could handle this very assignment. Asside from photo radar and the occasional DUI/Sobriety checkpoints, what are they really doing? Now that i think about it, the "defacto" motormen that are attached to the districts handle these assignments. At least the ones in 1D are when I am working there. And if im correct, MCU still operates out of NSID which means MCU is not attached to the Traffic Branch. So what is their purpose??

    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    This is because I also agree with your comment about the apparent lack of any substantive duties for the traffic unit. Photo radar does not equal real enforcement. Other states realize that many criminals are intercepted through highway patrol activities.
    You get no arguments from me. I have been trying to figure out what their mission/job has been for the last 14 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    I have no illusions about any of this ever happening.
    Not in my lifetime or yours....

    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    I say it only because anyone who has worked as a police officer in the District knows full well that motorists drive recklessly and with impunity on these thoroughfares (as they do throughout the rest of the city's streets).
    But hey, there is always the "Click it Or Ticket" campaign leading up to memorial day every year..

    Quote Originally Posted by brave_konami View Post
    My biggest concern has always been MPD's ability to respond to a wide-scale event that caused a lot of destruction and required the roads to be used for evacuation. There is no MPD unit that would immediately take responsibility for ensuring flow of traffic outbound on the thoroughfares/interstates. I was on-duty September 11th. It was gridlock for many, many hours. A designated highway patrol agency could do just that.
    I got off 3am that morning due to some overtime and awoke at 10:45am because my pager (whoa) was blaring. On my way in on the BW Parkway, not a single car was traveling towards the city. And once I got within 2 blocks of my station at that time, I was met with heavily armed officers with shotguns. Most erie thing I have ever seen on the parkway...

  24. #49
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    Delete....poorly thought out
    Last edited by PM4-7D; 08-01-2011 at 11:28 AM.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PM4-7D View Post
    It says "call 911" on the car.....aka call MPD...LOL
    WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? Even ignorance isn't an excuse here, since we already discussed this earlier in the thread.

    MPD, PSPD, and HAPD are all dispatched through the DC Office of Unified Communications (aka DC 911), thus the number for a POLICE response in the District of Columbia is 911... PSPD and HAPD do not have separate numbers or separate dispatchers... we are all dispatched by the same dispatchers on the same radio zones.

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