1. #1
    Rimfire
    Guest

    Post Guns in the Courtroom

    Recently the county I live in adopted a new policy saying that sheriff deputies, acting as bailiffs, were no longer allowed to carry a sidearm while on-duty in the courtroom or while transporting the inmate to and from the jail to the courtroom. (In this particular county the court, jail, and sheriffs office are all in the same building.)

    Instead they are carrying their normal duty gear.(ASP,OC,Cuffs,etc.) Plus tasers and stun-guns.

    This was decided after an incident in a nearby county where an inmate attempted to take a deputies gun. It is supposed to make the courtroom safer.

    Law enforcement officers and DA investigators are allowed to carry in the courtroom while testifying but they are are trying to get them not to.

    Do you think this is a good idea ? Should it be that way in all courtrooms ? Would you agree to not carry a gun in such instances ?

  2. #2
    Darkwulfe
    Guest

    Post

    It only works if everyone is checked for weapons before entering the courtroom, meaning bags are checked and scanned, people are pat searched etc. Most courts don't have the time or resources to do that. These rules will cause more problems in the long run. Some of our courts have this rule while others require you to bring your side arm. I personally don't feel very comfortable being in uniform without my duty weapon. Your a sitting duck and who do you think the judge is going to expect to do something when that lunatic wife/son/daughter/father/mother of the defendant comes in a decides to cap the judge or prosecutor for sending their father/husband/son to prison? Remember that rule don't bring a knife to a gunfight? Same goes for an asp, OC, and tazers.

  3. #3
    Rimfire
    Guest

    Post

    Maybe that's why they are doing it then. There is only one entrance to the building that the public has access to. Everyone has to go through a metal detector manned by two deputies and have purses or briefcases searched.

  4. #4
    txinvestigator1
    Guest

    Post

    Years ago in South Texas a large county decided that uniformed officers would not be allowed to carry in the courtroom.

    There was, of course, no secure place to leave the weapon, except the bailffs desk drawer in his office. [Eek!]

    It was deemed to be intimidating, but to whom I never knew.

    I ALWAYS carried my backup, as no one was searched prior to entering the courtrooms.

  5. #5
    10mmCopper
    Guest

    Cool

    It's a foolish policy.
    Besides, just cause my holster is empty, don't mean I don't have a gun, or two on me. [Wink]

  6. #6
    jtenor
    Guest

    Post

    Sounds like a good way to make it into a 6 handle cedar chest. There are a lot of things that make it through the metal detector. Best of luck in changing the court's policy.

  7. #7
    Sig220Man
    Guest

    Post

    While I have heard of police officers being banned from carrying in courtrooms (it's that way for non-Federal LE in Federal Court, plus you can't carry in an LA County courtroom if you're there for non-official purposes), I've never heard of the bailiff himself/herself being prohibited from carrying.

    Personally, I think it's the stupidest idea I've heard of in awhile. Of all the people who need to be armed in the courtroom, it's the bailiff. He maintains order in that courtroom, and he is the judge's protector. While the testifying officer can be armed, that officer is only going to be in the courtroom for as long as he is needed.

    Obviously, whatever judge came up with this order has never experienced, or never seen video of, crazed defendants (and/or their friends/family) going bezerk in the courtroom. A few of these individuals have tried to go after the judge himself/herself due to a ruling they didn't like.

  8. #8
    KenM
    Guest

    Post

    Several years back one of our very liberal judges had this same idea. She changed her mind after being mugged at her church. Evidentally she figured out that not everyone is as "loving" as she is.

    If I remember your location correctly, I thought you guys had a rule in place that you had to be on-duty to carry in the courthouse. I was there I think in '96 at a revocation hearing stemming from several stolen cars that showed up at a chopshop there. I didn't think they were going to let me in until I put my Glock away. Took a while before I finally talked my way in.

  9. #9
    Evnings
    Guest

    Post

    The only time we cann't carry is when we are in divorce court concerning our divorce. I guess the judges are afraid we'll cap the ex's lawyer.

  10. #10
    Rimfire
    Guest

    Post

    I could not find the article online so I sent an email to one of the local tv news stations. They sent me back the text that was used when the story aired on tv. I'm just gonna copy/paste it so it may look a little confusing....

    11-20-02: COURTROOM SECURITY/217/6PM/01:50/
    2-SHOT **KERRY**
    IN CASES INVOLVING
    ALLEGED MURDERS AND
    REPORTED GANG MEMBERS,
    SECURITY CAN BECOME A
    MAJOR CONCERN AND
    PRIORITY.
    ***DOUG***
    THAT'S WHY
    DEPUTIES CAN BE SEEN
    AT MOST SUCH TRIALS IN
    WICHITA COUNTY.
    BUT WHAT YOU WON'T
    SEE ARE THEIR GUNS.
    MICHALELEN TETTEH JOINS
    CAM FOUR DUAL US AND MICHAELENE
    WHY WERE GUNS for
    law enforcement
    officials BANNED FROM THE
    COURTS?
    CAM FOUR FULL ***MICHAELENE***
    CHIEF DEPUTY CECIL
    YODER SAYS LAST NOVEMBER
    IN THE DENTON COUNTY
    COURTHOUSE, AN ACCUSED
    KIDNAPPER TRIED TO
    GRAB A BAILIFF'S GUN,
    JUST OUTSIDE THE
    COURTROOM.
    YODER SAYS THAT EVEN
    THOUGH GUNLESS, THE
    DEPUTIES ARE NOT UNARMED
    (FROM MICHAELENE 1) OR UNPREAPRED..
    TAKE PKG CASS: COURTROOM SECURITY
    ----PKG---
    IN THIS MURDER TRIAL,
    #Wichita County Courthouse \31 DEPUTIES ARE
    #today READY TO STOP
    ANYONE FROM
    DISRUPTING THE COURT,
    OR THREATENING ANYONE IN
    IT.
    BUT NOT WITH
    GUNS.
    #Cecil Yoder \31 ***SOT***
    #chief deputy we have less lethal
    methods for controllinG
    inmates, we have gas
    tazers, stun guns.
    ***END SOT***
    THESE OFFICERS ARE
    CARRYING TAZERS, A
    WEAPON THAT DELIVERS
    THOUSANDS OF VOLTS OF
    ELECTRICITY TO ITS
    TARGET.
    <<NATS>>>
    CHIEF YODER SAYS
    CARRYING WEAPONS LIKE
    THE TAZER INSTEAD GUNS
    MAKES IT SAFER FOR
    EVERYBODY.
    ****SOT**
    a courtroom setting is
    not the place for an
    actual firearM to be
    discharged, so a less
    lethal weapon makes
    sense.
    ****SOT***
    MORE SENSE THAN MOST
    PEOPLE THINK, HE SAYS.
    IN LOOKING AT
    STATISTICS NATIONWIDE,
    YODER SAYS MOST OF THE
    GUNS ENDING UP IN
    COURTHOOM
    SHOOTINGS OR THREATS
    ARENT BROUGHT IN BY
    SUSPECTS,
    SPECTATORS OR OTHERS.
    THEY WERE
    BROUGHT IN LAW
    OFFICERS.
    ***SOT**
    if the officer didn't
    have a weapon that
    weapon wouldn't be
    available for someone to
    take away from him.
    ***END SOT**
    YODER SAYS AT FIRST,
    DEPUTIES WEREN'T
    TOO HAPPY ABOUT
    GIVING UP THEIR
    GUNS IN THE COURTROOMS OR
    WHILE
    TRANSPORTING PRISONERS
    TO AND FROM THEM.
    **SOT***
    initially they were a
    little apprehensive, but
    I think now almost all of
    them agree to it.
    ***END SOT***
    AND HE SAYS HE HOPES
    THE PUBLIC WILL FEEL
    SAFER TOO.
    ---END PACKAGE--
    CAM FOUR FULL **MICHAELENE**
    POLICE OFFICERS STILL
    CARRY GUNS IN THE
    COURTROOM WHEN THEY COME
    TO TESTIFY...AS DO
    INVESTIGATORS FOR
    THE DISTRICT
    ATTORNEY.
    YODER SAYS THEY'RE
    ENCOURAGING THE POLICE
    DEPARTMENT AND THE D-A'S
    OFFICE TO ADOPT THEIR
    POLICY.
    CAM FOUR DUAL **DOUG**
    <<WRAP>>

  11. #11
    deputy37
    Guest

    Angry

    what a friggin' liberal slant to THAT story!!! I worked in News for 10 years. I would not have let a story air that was so one sided. BLECH.

    These days a courthouse is one of the most dangerous places you can be. Hell, serving civil paperwork comes next...

    When the time comes that we aren't allowed to carry in uniform, or off duty but testifying (we wear badge, cuffs, & gun) I'll be done, because I won't be testifying.

  12. #12
    10mmCopper
    Guest

    Cool

    quote:
    Originally posted by Evnings:
    The only time we cann't carry is when we are in divorce court concerning our divorce. I guess the judges are afraid we'll cap the ex's lawyer.

    Capping the ex's lawyer would be bad because?????????

    [ 11-26-2002, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: OfcMikey ]

  13. #13
    shooter1201
    Guest

    Post

    When I worked for a Florida SO, we were forbidden to carry firearms in court. Fortunately, I'm not in that situation with my current Tennessee judges. Tennessee may be bassackwards about a lot of things, but not THIS!

  14. #14
    gjcocksedge
    Guest

    Cool

    Wow, unbelieveable that some bailiff's aren't allowed to be armed in some places.

    Seems like that rule would make a potentially dangerous situation worse.

    The Bailiff's are ARMED at my local courthouse. Thank God. I was recently observing a trial were the accused got pretty nasty and I was glad for those bailiff's and their guns. Guess, that is life here in SoCal.

    Take care

  15. #15
    Evnings
    Guest

    Post

    I really don't think it should be illegal to cap your ex's lawyer. After all, they are bottom feeders and all they want is to ruin your life.

    The latest on my ex's attorney. He didn't notice that I get paid bi weekly instead of semi monthly. A subtle difference that makes a big difference in the child support payment. No wonder he is a convicted felon for Misapprorpiation of Fiduciary Funds, was disbarred, spent time in the slammer, and had to fight to get his license back. Seems he has a problem with money. If he cann't figure out a police officers pay scale and how to figure out the child support rate that is spelled out in the Family Code , he's really lacking something. Even I know how to determine the child support rate from the Family Code.

    Oh well, enough of this rant about stupid lawyers.

  16. #16
    209
    Guest

    Post

    Evenings- I know what you mean. My ex's first lawyer was little more than a leech. Of course, she probably paid him most of what she got, so he was the only winner in the whole thing. Read in the paper about six months after the divorce, he got picked up for DUI and possession of cocaine. I guess he used all my money for his nose.

    Funny thing was the third time I had to go back 'cause my ex wanted more child support, she had a female lawyer. After the hearing I ran into her in the hall and invited her for a cup of coffee (she was a good looking lady). She turned me down, saying, "It wouldn't be ethical." I forget exactly what I said to her as a reply, but it was something like- "Ethical, but you're a lawyer." Luckily, I never went back to court with her representing my ex again.

  17. #17
    Evnings
    Guest

    Post

    A lawyers ethics last as long as your money will pay them.

  18. #18
    David757
    Guest

    Post

    I agree, not carrying in a courtroom is ridiculous. Someone mentioned it before..there are tons of things that make it through metal detectors. Plus, where else to do you get such a large concentration of society's riff-raff (no..not the lawyers..they are worse!)?
    I know that judges are the final authority about what goes on in their courtroom, but they have to get elected...and in Texas, surely the pro gun crowd has some significant political clout! I'd contact the NRA and pass the judges name along to them!
    Good luck!

  19. #19
    Mike Sullivan
    Guest

    Post

    If some criminal mutant pos pulls out a gun in court why don't you just object to it? [Wink]

  20. #20
    Underdog
    Guest

    Post

    We are allowed to carry guns in Los Angeles Superior Courts as long as we are not a party to the action. We are allowed to carry when we are witnesses in criminal actions.

    The last time that I was in Federal Court in Los Angeles, we were not allowed to carry weapons.

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