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  1. #26
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    needguidance's Avatar
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    Care to share the names and address' of the Albany County guys?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by needguidance View Post
    Boatloads? Really? I must not be upstate enough..thank God!
    Yes. Damn them and their little tiny anti-goverment canoes.

  3. #28
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    Contact me privately. I'll need some proof that you're law enforcement.


    jj@jjmac.net

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmacnab View Post
    Contact me privately. I'll need some proof that you're law enforcement.


    jj@jjmac.net
    I'm not.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmacnab View Post

    Suffolk County has its fair share too.
    Suffolk County doesn't count, that place is in the sticks man! They still have farmland over there!

    The article you posted was a good read. It seems like they follow the same basis as most other cults do.
    Last edited by LINY; 06-07-2011 at 12:34 AM.

  6. #31
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    I saw that 60 minutes show. Then I posted a link to it on here. Wasn't sure who hadn't heard of them.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DACP View Post
    pisrod.......
    Style points for the use of your new word.

  8. #33
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    Put in your book that they a group of whack jobs that believe they can call themselves 'sovereign citizens' and all of a sudden be exempt from obeying the laws everyone else has to. It is ok to disagree with laws. But there is a method behind the madness to all of them that benifits everyone.

    If a 'sovereign citizen' was the victim of a crime they would be the FIRST person calling 911crying for the Police who are paid for by guess what? property taxes! They are nothing short of pathetic and a joke. The same as all these thugs we deal with on a daily basis that 'hate the POlice'. But at the same time the FIRST people to call them when something happens.
    Last edited by DeputySC; 06-07-2011 at 02:08 AM.

  9. #34
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    Many sovereigns also collect disability, social security, and welfare checks. The movement includes squatters who take houses without paying for them, and college graduates who refuse to repay student loans. Many sovereigns refuse to pay child support, property taxes, and, of course, income taxes.

    Perhaps the most interesting example of hypocrisy is the number of government employees - ranging from politicians to police, from CIA/FAA/IRS employees to public school teachers - who have fallen for sovereign schemes.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmacnab View Post
    Many sovereigns also collect disability, social security, and welfare checks. The movement includes squatters who take houses without paying for them, and college graduates who refuse to repay student loans. Many sovereigns refuse to pay child support, property taxes, and, of course, income taxes.

    Perhaps the most interesting example of hypocrisy is the number of government employees - ranging from politicians to police, from CIA/FAA/IRS employees to public school teachers - who have fallen for sovereign schemes.
    Sounds like a certain ninny that was here not long ago from Maryland running for senate.

  11. #36
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    Don't forget Sovereign Dave.
    Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.
    President Ronald Reagan

    All we ask is to be let alone.
    President Jefferson Davis

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by major g View Post
    Style points for the use of your new word.
    Why thank you.
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

  13. #38
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    jjmac.net and deathandtaxes.com will both take you to his "blog" & bio.



    Quoted on his web site......................."The nation’s leading expert on sovereign citizens, tax protesters, and other right wing extremist movements."
    "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon - no matter how good you are, the pigeon will still crap all over the board and strut around like it won anyway."



    I don't know it all, I know a little about a lot and a lot about a little---slamdunc


    I have discussed religion and politics over morning coffee with men who have killed people, you don't scare me.

  14. #39
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    Wow you sure are an unhelpful bunch. Boo hoo, authors ask for willing participants to come forward with information and you never hear back from them. What were you expecting, them to come back and post a voucher for a free copy of their book?

    Think about when you respond to a call; you show up with very little information and ask a bystander what they saw. How would you feel if they responded "We don't assist police officers around here"?

    No one is obligated to help but I don't think he's asking for the world here...

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
    jjmac.net and deathandtaxes.com will both take you to his "blog" & bio.
    Unimpressed. Unsourced, no data, no examples, not even anecdotal evidence. His one footnote references an article that he himself wrote, that the reader cannot access from his website. My professors, even the crappy ones, would have tore me a new one if I turned out work like that.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fëanor View Post

    Think about when you respond to a call; you show up with very little information and ask a bystander what they saw. How would you feel if they responded "We don't assist police officers around here"?.
    I am not at work getting paid ------I am sitting on my couch with a cup of coffee. My house----my rules.
    "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon - no matter how good you are, the pigeon will still crap all over the board and strut around like it won anyway."



    I don't know it all, I know a little about a lot and a lot about a little---slamdunc


    I have discussed religion and politics over morning coffee with men who have killed people, you don't scare me.

  17. #42
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    Wow you sure are an unhelpful bunch. Boo hoo, authors ask for willing participants to come forward with information and you never hear back from them. What were you expecting, them to come back and post a voucher for a free copy of their book?
    I made the mistake ONCE of attempting to help an author.He was a British fellow,having never left the isle,,writing a crime novel which takes place in New Orleans,which I am vaguely familiar with having been born,raised and currently live less than 60 miles from.He wanted info on street names in a certain area,I told him,he didnt like that so he moved the streets The final straw was when he asked about cajun accents,I explained that the major accent in Nawlins is more of a bronx type and VERY few people have a cajun accent there.He told me I was nuts and didn't know what I was talking about.
    Sleeping Giant. They're not fat and happy anymore. They are hungry and increasingly angry. That is not a good recipe for a "Puppies and Rainbows America".

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unistat View Post
    Unimpressed. Unsourced, no data, no examples, not even anecdotal evidence. His one footnote references an article that he himself wrote, that the reader cannot access from his website. My professors, even the crappy ones, would have tore me a new one if I turned out work like that.
    Oh good grief. If you'd actually read my bio and website, or seen the 60 Minutes piece, you'd have known I'm a female.

    Just saying...

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmacnab View Post
    Thanks.

    Are you a sovereign defector?
    Nope, sorry. The only band wagon I am on currently is Bradley Manning's.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmacnab View Post
    Oh good grief. If you'd actually read my bio and website, or seen the 60 Minutes piece, you'd have known I'm a female.

    Just saying...
    Got any pics??

  21. #46
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    A cautionary tale from Ulster County New York.

    Sovereign Citizens group terrorizes small-town officials with fake liens

    Published: Monday, May 23, 2011, 7:40 AM Updated: Monday, May 23, 2011, 8:25 AM


    When police officer Anthony Kalimeras went to kick squatters Ed-George Parenteau and Jeffrey Charles Burfeindt out of a foreclosed home in Ulster County March 4, 2009, he thought they were run-of-the-mill nuts.

    They had a fake deed and homemade identification. They gave only their first and middle names — Edward George and Jeffrey Charles. And they gave birthdates of 11/28/5958 and 2/16/5964. He arrested them for trespassing and false personation.

    Kalimeras remembers that they kept saying: You wouldn’t understand.

    He didn’t.

    Until months later, when the two men filed liens against Kalimeras; his employer, the town of Lloyd; and more than a dozen other municipalities and individuals for $135 billion.

    The two men filed fake papers in real places — the New York Department of State, Washington state and Ulster County. The people involved in their arrests were inundated with reams of nonsensical documents like maritime liens and judgment demands for millions of dollars.

    Parenteau, from the Chenango County town of Sherburne, and Burfeindt are part of a loosely knit national movement called Sovereign Citizens. Followers think the laws of the U.S. don’t apply to them. They don’t have drivers licenses or pay taxes.

    The two men were working with another Sovereign Citizen named Richard Ulloa. All three became the subject of an FBI terrorism task force investigation and federal criminal charges.

    Parenteau and Burfeindt have pleaded guilty in federal court; Parenteau was sentenced to 21 months in prison May 13. Burfeindt and Ulloa, who was convicted in a jury trial, have not been sentenced.

    Court papers, liens and interviews show a scheme to destroy the lives of ordinary small-town people enforcing the law. Some of the people targeted in the paperwork attack are so frightened for their lives that they now carry guns. Victims could be anyone who came into contact with the men: patrol officers, a prosecutor, town justices and even clerks.

    Though the multibillion-dollar liens are bogus, they were accepted by the New York Department of State and other state governments. A lien is a record of an unpaid debt filed against a person or business. The duo didn’t have to prove the debts were real; filing paperwork was enough.

    Then the liens appeared on the credit reports of the people and towns terrorized. And it takes months of hard work, and money, to get the liens removed.

    Parenteau said during his sentencing that he learned how to file the liens through a seminar given by James Timothy Turner, a guru in the Sovereign Citizens movement who charges money to teach people how to thwart the government through malicious paperwork.

    In a YouTube video of one of his presentations, Turner wears a jacket but no tie. At first, he sounds like a friendly Southern guy fed up with government and the economy. Then he explains how the current government is really a corporation, and by being citizens, we have all participated in the sham. We have let the government steal from us. We have been begging for permission when the land, the money and the laws are ours, he says.

    “I’m going to show you how to get it back,” Turner says. He mentions how he’s been called a terrorist by Janet Napolitano, director of homeland security.

    “We are terrorists because we believe in this country, not the corporation,” he says.

    A violent streak

    They are considered terrorists because their paperwork wars can escalate to violence.

    Mark Pitcavage, an investigator with the Anti-Defamation League, a national civil rights agency, has studied the Sovereign Citizen movement for years. Law enforcement actions that threaten their beliefs can lead to gunfire, Pitcavage said. Things like traffic stops and child protective visits can end up battlegrounds because Sovereign Citizens don’t believe those laws apply to them.

    Pitcavage said the movement has been growing over the past two years. The anti-government ideals appeal to the far right and people who are struggling financially. Some of the Turner’s seminars focus on telling people how to get out of foreclosure.

    There have been Sovereign Citizens in Upstate New York for decades, Pitcavage said, and it’s safe to assume that they are in every county.

    West Memphis, Ark., police Chief Bob Paudert had never heard of Sovereign Citizens before May 20, 2010.

    That’s when Jerry Kane was pulled over on the highway. When the officers checked his registration, they found his car was registered to the “Kingdom of Heaven.” Kane became belligerent. Then his 16-year-old son jumped out of the car and began firing an AK-47 rifle, said Bob Paudert, the police chief there.

    The teen pumped 14 bullets into Brandon Paudert, 39, the chief’s son. And 16 bullets into his fellow officer, Bill Evans. Paudert arrived on the scene to find his son dead on the road.

    Kane and his son were later killed in a shootout with police in a Wal-Mart parking lot.

    Ridiculous claims

    The Sovereign Citizens in Ulster County used a different kind of warfare.

    When odd papers started coming into Ulster County, demanding millions in debts, Ulster County Attorney Beatrice Havranek didn’t think much. “At first blush, I thought this is ridiculous,” Havranek said.

    The first papers were from Ulloa, whose problems started with two traffic tickets. After he was ticketed, he filed phony judgment demands with accusations against the court, officers and municipalities, asking for money damages for being detained. It’s a common practice of the Sovereign Citizens. Parenteau and Burfeindt did the same thing.

    At first, no one paid attention. But when those papers went unanswered, the defendants filed bogus liens in legitimate places. They named the towns, the county and individuals. The first was filed in Washington state, just to make it harder to fight. More were filed in New York. One lien, filed by Parenteau, demanded billions in silver.

    The lawyer for the governments’ insurance company, John Bailey of Albany, filed a federal racketeering lawsuit against Parenteau, Burfeindt and Ulloa in March 2010, accusing them of extortion through the bogus liens. The FBI and U.S. attorney’s office then pursued a criminal case.

    Intimidation by paperwork

    Bailey said some of the town employees involved in the suit were so shaken by what happened, and what they learned about the Sovereign Citizen movement, that they wondered whether they should quit their jobs and move out of the area.

    Kalimeras, the Lloyd police officer who arrested Parenteau and was named in the multibillion-dollar lien, said the town is now paying to have his credit monitored, along with the others caught in the Sovereigns’ paper spree. Every time he makes a major purchase — like when he bought some furniture recently — his credit card company calls to make sure it’s really him.

    Havranek, the Ulster County attorney, said she now gets filings from other Sovereign Citizens from time to time. Ulster County is now on their radar.

    The county doesn’t plan to cower.

    “We’re not just going to ignore them. We’re prepared,” she said.

    Paudert wants to make sure the rest of the country is prepared for the Sovereign Citizens. The police chief is avenging his son’s death by becoming an expert on the movement. He travels the country warning other law enforcement officers to know what to look for. And to warn them that, with these people, the run-of-the-mill traffic stop can turn deadly without any warning.

    “They’re gone,” Paudert said of his son and the other officer who were gunned down. “But it’s not too late to save others.”

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by jannino View Post
    Got any pics??
    Perv.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmacnab View Post
    Oh good grief. If you'd actually read my bio and website, or seen the 60 Minutes piece, you'd have known I'm a female.
    The website referenced above (jjmac.net) has no gender identity.
    "Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon - no matter how good you are, the pigeon will still crap all over the board and strut around like it won anyway."



    I don't know it all, I know a little about a lot and a lot about a little---slamdunc


    I have discussed religion and politics over morning coffee with men who have killed people, you don't scare me.

  24. #49
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    I read the SPLC newsletter article. It was infomative.
    For the cops out there: You are an adult. If you want to write someone, write them. If you don't want to write someone, then don't write them.

    "Jeff, you are the best cop on this board"-Anonymous Post

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmacnab View Post
    Oh good grief. If you'd actually read my bio and website, or seen the 60 Minutes piece, you'd have known I'm a female.

    Just saying...
    No, I read your blogs. Bio and TV apperances don't mean a whole lot if the work is lack luster. Gender is certainly irrelevant.

    To be clear, I am not saying that you don't have good research or worthy arguments. I am saying that I have no way to evaluate your conclusions if I do not see your source material. Without references, data, or support I don't care if it is the most rigerous logic, I can't accept it.

    If it's of interest, I am a historian so that is the point of view I use to evaluate most research.

    In general, I find jounalists and their profession to have much lower standards for their "research" than I am willing accept. I understand that you are not a journalist, but stating the fact that journalists use you as a source does not carry a lot of weight with me, given my opinion of journalists.

    The SPLC article could completely change my opinion, but I can't read it.
    Last edited by Unistat; 06-07-2011 at 01:43 PM.

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