Chemical Suicide

[Mrs. Hoppes]

Yes, I know it's been a long time. I'll catch everyone up later on what's been going on around here with off grid living, animals, farming, flooding, etc. However, I do have a serious question.

I'm going through First Responder training and this was a topic that was covered a couple of days ago. EVERYONE showed up for this. Police, EMT, FR, FR trainees, area volunteer fire fighters, and the local doctor and local coroner (not one in the same.)

This scared the crap out of me, especially the cyanide one. Anyone ever deal with this?

[LaPlaca]

deal with what?

[Mrs. Hoppes]

A chemical suicide. A person slumped over in a vehicle dead or in a closet dead due to chemical (detergent) suicide.

[westside popo]

I assume you are referring to the suicides where the idiot seals himself in a vehicle with a certain type of toxic lethal chemical(s) inside? Then no, I never experienced it or seen it but have heard of it. All the more important to do a scene size up for every scene.

[Mrs. Hoppes]

Yes, that. Sitting in the class watching video and listening to this, it definitely makes me think twice about going up to a vehicle and doing anything more than tapping on the glass.

[westside popo]

Yes, that. Sitting in the class watching video and listening to this, it definitely makes me think twice about going up to a vehicle and doing anything more than tapping on the glass.

Just remember don't blindly rush in, do your size up and look for the signs. If I remember correctly the doors may be taped, there may be a fog or residue on the glass and the obvious idiot slumped over? It's been a while.

[LA DEP]

Most of the people that are committing suicide in this fashion leave very visible notes to that effect.

Back off and call for HazMat.

[M1garand]

I've been through quite number of first responder chemical training and one of the videos DHS/FEMA showed us was an officer responding to rescue a driver of a truck filled with chemical mixture and officer didn't realize what he was going into. He died within minutes and that was caught on his dash cam. If you are not sure or if it seems like beyond your training and pay grade, call for help and let someone with proper equipment/training handle it.

[willbird]

There was a dash video here on o.com of an officer who drive up to an accident where an anhydrous ammonia tank had overturned and was leaking. I had a friend whose dad got a dose of anhydrous in the face from a hose that laid in the sun and got hot, it blinded him....it is impossible to describe what his eyes looked like even years later.

Bill

[major g]

Most of the people that are committing suicide in this fashion leave very visible notes to that effect.

Back off and call for HazMat.

Most, but not all. I can remember reading about a handful that have not had signs. Another thing to be aware of is a strong smell of sulfur, which is noticeable in some instances. As always keep your head on straight, and trust in your "spidey senses".

[LaPlaca]

Most of the people that are committing suicide in this fashion leave very visible notes to that effect.

Back off and call for HazMat.

only call ive ever been to like this was a gal with a hose from her tailpipe stuck through the slightly opened drivers window. even had receipts from a local hardware store for the hose and duct tape on the seat next to her. dead...and a note taped to the steering wheel.

[LaPlaca]

There was a dash video here on o.com of an officer who drive up to an accident where an anhydrous ammonia tank had overturned and was leaking. I had a friend whose dad got a dose of anhydrous in the face from a hose that laid in the sun and got hot, it blinded him....it is impossible to describe what his eyes looked like even years later.

Bill

that vid you speak of was bogus...training film...

[headonstraight]

that vid you speak of was bogus...training film...

regardless, that exact scenario is very common. Actually happened around my neck of the woods somewhat recently.

[willbird]

that vid you speak of was bogus...training film...

Oh really ?? Well that is good I suppose ? It was originally posted here as a real dash cam video.

The most "scary" cargo I have seen is molten aluminum, once you know what the containers look like you will recognize them, it is 700 degrees or more, runs like water til it cools.

Bill

[Mrs. Hoppes]

Thank you, everyone. The one chemical suicide in Missouri (that I know of) used cyanide which does not smell like rotten eggs. That is a bit more disturbing than sulfide. There is no smell for most people (about 15% can smell burnt almonds) and there are no 5 gallon buckets sitting there next to the driver.

As for "above my pay grade" first responders get paid the same as fire fighters. We're all volunteers.

And yes, I do listen to my gut. It's kept my butt out of trouble more than once.

[RoadKingTrooper]

Hello Mrs Hoppes!
In my 28 years I have never come across chemical suicide. Usually hose from the exhaust into the car, GSW or intentional head on with a truck. Strangest was the one that slid inside a large garbage bag and turned on a cylinder of Nitrogen gas. He suffocated.
Good luck with your Volunteer work!

[jd08]

Are most officers trained to at least the operations level of Hazmat for instances such as these? Sorry to piggyback on this thread, im just curious.

[squad51]

Are most officers trained to at least the operations level of Hazmat for instances such as these? Sorry to piggyback on this thread, im just curious.

HAZ what? I am pretty sure thats what our fire guys do...there is a reason the fire guys call us police guys blue canarries....

[JasperST]

Also, many people aren't aware of just how dangerous some typical household cleaners are, especially in combination. Mixing ammonia with bleach can be lethal (chlorine gas).

[SRT936]

Just remember don't blindly rush in, do your size up and look for the signs. If I remember correctly the doors may be taped, there may be a fog or residue on the glass and the obvious idiot slumped over? It's been a while.

Yep. I've had one and this is EXACTLY what I found. At first I thought it was the classic run the exhaust into the passenger compartment deal but when I saw no hoses, I grew suspicious. Fortunately, the guy was obviously dead so we had time to wait for the hose jockeys to do their thing.

[SRT936]

Are most officers trained to at least the operations level of Hazmat for instances such as these? Sorry to piggyback on this thread, im just curious.

Nope. Around here its mandated that all first responders (cops, fire, ems, etc) be trained to awareness level. Nothing more. I'm one of only 4 officers on my entire department trained to operations level.

[DACP]

Yes mam I have dealt with it first hand had no clue in the world about any of this and it almost cost me my life. The new issue of “Police magazine” has an article about it, wish it would have come out a few months earlier, would have saved me a trip to the hospital scared out of my mind. Jd08 yes we get a mandatory Hazmat for first responders class, however it don’t cover this. In my situation Fire made the call to hold back and let us safe the area (there were known weapons in the house), so I was already going in kind of screwed, after making entry and locating the subject, we discovered the severity of the situation and found out we were FUBAR, we grabbed jack *** and got out, he was unconscious but still alive we did what we had to do, but the damage was done, I passed out and woke up in an ambulance, not a good feeling. Any how that is the short of the story, looking back not sure if there was anything we could have or would have done differently.

[ProtectandServe]

Hello Mrs Hoppes!
In my 28 years I have never come across chemical suicide. Usually hose from the exhaust into the car, GSW or intentional head on with a truck. Strangest was the one that slid inside a large garbage bag and turned on a cylinder of Nitrogen gas. He suffocated.
Good luck with your Volunteer work!

Where do people get the idea that asphyxia is a good way to go?

[medica430]

Sealed cars should give you a pucker factor. I have seen people put pennies in the seals on the drivers door to see if they change colors. Other than that, up hill/up wind/up stream. I usually just let the fire dept take the risk. The only time I had to open a door myself for an apparent suicide, I did it at arms length, yanked the door open while holding my breath, and ran up wind about 25 yards and waited for a response from the patient. When the patient fell out of the car and was obviously deceased, I had to stand there and get screamed at by my Supervisor for 30 minutes for taking the unnecessary risk in the first place. Everyone on a scene like this has a role. The hardest thing I have ever had to do was stand around and do nothing at all.

[LE_Hopeful23]

why do people make suicide so complicated??

I mean i have absoulutely zero intention of ever taking my own life and i don't understand how someone could think that ending their life is the only way to solve their problems. BUT if i was going to, i think i would want to do something easy/quick that wouldnt be botched. I've heard horror stories of botched suicides. I don;t get these chemical suicides or overdosing on pills or shooting yourself anywhere but in the head.