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Thread: ..Since when did we become the BAD GUYS?....

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    ..Since when did we become the BAD GUYS?....

    I know that many here tend to lean to the right in terms of politics, and for many years I've gritted and groaned when the "party of the working man" ( the Democrats) pushed more and more anti police-uber liberal laws and polices which seem to protect the slimiest people in our society. But of late I've noticed a trend that the conservative branch has gone toward anti gov't/ anti police rhetoric as well.

    In this nation, the sense of FEAR has grown.Fear of minorities, fear of immigrants, fear of anything that is protrayed as "against hometown U.S.A" I was over on a Pro Gun/ Pro gun owners site, and seemed to find tons of Anti police attitudes-from folks who had whimsical images that made fun of Obama, to folks who plastered the American flag on their avatars, and had monikers like "proud american", or patriot. Many touted their supposed "Beliefs" in conservatism, but seemed to enjoy posting news reports or gossip about how some avg citizen BEAT a cop on a gun issue, with some even proudly proclaiming that they'd DARE any cop tell them what to do.( or try and stop them)

    Here in Ca. the attacks against police officers are well documented.Many of these folks started with the wost of rightwing soundbytes and rhetoric, and then WENT OFF the MAP.I recall a traffic stop where two young men from an affluent and rather low crime community were caught with an improvised club and mace( a baseball bat cut down from the handle with a strap attached, and a metal pipe with welded nails on one end) when advised they were under arrest, one angrily blurted out, "well if the commie gov't of california would let average people carry guns we wouldn't have to have this stuff when we came to L.A !!". This coming from two 19 yr olds in a BMW who just got off the less than dangerous 405 fwy ( a fwy that doesn't even come close to touching any real "ghetto areas")and drove 3 minutes into one of the most heavily OVERPOLICED/LOW crime places on the west coast. In the window were NRA and "recal Feinstein" sticker( something you usually don't see on "the OC" , BMW crowds vehicles)

    Bad enough that years of "liberal hug a thug" politics have allowed our inner cities and now suburbs to be crime zones, but the very same people who once claimed to support the police are now looking at us as "problem".We have "open carry" zealots who look for confrontations with CA. police officers( one recent issue locally was a Long Beach Park Ranger who stopped a man walking around "exercising his rights" in a crowded municipal park on the 4th of July) to fringe dirt bags like the two recently arrested for planting deadly IEDs to kill Hemet,Ca PD officers( suspects,BTW who have little of no affliation with rightwing or left wing criminal entities, but share a rightwing Anti gov't view).

    Whether its saggy pants street gangsters, like th POS that killed to florida police officers recently in Florida, or the People's rights, anti gov't nutjob in West Memphis who programmed his son into Anti OBama, anti police rhteoris and helped take the lives of 2 officers there, can anyone here tell me how do we "win" if we are protrayed as evil in the minds of society?
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    .. also, where did anyone say "we" in LE make the laws, or have the rights to violate the constitution because we want to ? I'd expect this from the "legalize it" and "si,se puede" crowd, but the flag waving "tea party crowd?"...
    Last edited by DOAcop38; 07-06-2010 at 03:30 AM.
    "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOAcop38 View Post
    Whether its saggy pants street gangsters, like th POS that killed to florida police officers recently in Florida, or the People's rights, anti gov't nutjob in West Memphis who programmed his son into Anti OBama, anti police rhteoris and helped take the lives of 2 officers there, can anyone here tell me how do we "win" if we are protrayed as evil in the minds of society?
    Sadly with all the hard work and sacrifices that you all make for LE, the press does not cater to positive stories. TV stations do not have a live feed on your traffic stops where you cut a guy some slack, they only roll choppers for a chase and when you suit up in riot gear.

    This Sheriff caught media attention and I for one was honored to have him in law enforcement.

    http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/...t-Tenants.html
    and
    http://www.greeleytribune.com/articl...pical%20lawman

    Quote Originally Posted by DOAcop38 View Post
    .. also, where did anyone say "we" in LE make the laws, or have the rights to violate the constitution because we want to ? I'd expect this from the "legalize it" and "si,se puede" crowd, but the flag waving "tea party crowd?"...
    Again perception is reality here. The only thing that gets air time for most Americans is when officer's stray and do violate, otherwise it is a non-story or it runs for two seconds and is gone.

    Also, people do not call 911 or come in to contact with you generally unless something is totally FUBAR with their existence. That constant perception and reinforcement of the "citizens you server" does you no favors generally when dealing with the average citizen. The catch 22 here is that as many here on O.com have expounded to is that you need that edge constantly to keep you alive because you do deal with the turds of society constantly.
    The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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    DOA, I am surprised at you. Of all people on this forum you already seem to know the answers to your own questions and in fact supply the well informed answers to others. I take it that this is just out of frustration and you need no further response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtxpro752 View Post
    DOA, I am surprised at you. Of all people on this forum you already seem to know the answers to your own questions and in fact supply the well informed answers to others. I take it that this is just out of frustration and you need no further response.
    I know, its frustrating.Now its both the Right and the Left chanting in almost unison that "we" cops take everybodies rights away. funnier still, many think that if they have a "gun" they can challenge that( was in Torrance at the mall recently and tried to flag the security down when I hard some pootbutts bragging about the gun they had and how they'd shoot a torrance Cop if he stopped them! made me mad to have left my cell in the car)
    "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

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    yeah i have noticed the same thing lately, especially on the web like you were talking about. the ultra left traditionally seems to hate police labeling LE as racist or abusive and the ultra right hates police because they are now extremely untrustworthy of anything government. I believe in gun ownership for the law abiding American citizen but some of the ideas the right has come up with recently are extremely disturbing many of them seem to lack personal responsibility which was a huge tenet of conservatism back in the days. Its as if many of the right wing has become anarchist in nature. I consider myself a traditional conservative so this is disheartening to me, the mind state of the American public is rapidly changing. At this point I am so used to everyone hating me, the few times when im working and someone says happy holiday or good morning its such a huge shock to me.
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    People who commit real crimes shouldn't get off so easily. I think citizen's rights are certainly important, but there's a limit to how far you can go on either side of the spectrum. By that, I mean you can be too strict or too lenient with potential criminals.

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    People remember that one time Wal-Mart didn't have what they wanted. They remember that one time the food at that restaurant made them sick. They remember that one time they loaned someone money and didn't get it back. They remember that one time they are pulled over for speeding when they weren't or were harassed by a cop for no good reason (as they see it) or had to deal with a cop who "just didn't care". One bad experience will stand out more than 10 good ones, that's just how it is.

    It isn't your fault that you have a job that puts you in an adversarial position with many of the people you interact with. I'm sure it's frustrating to do such a difficult job where you are held to such a high standard and any shortcoming by you or anyone else is held against all of you in the public's perception. I get that. I wish it didn't have to be that way, but in today's society everything has to be someone's fault and it certainly can't be their own.

    Just remember that there are still right-wing, anti-government, gun-toting, whackos out there who actually appreciate the police and the job they do. I don't know any personally, but I'm sure they're out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYC_Subway_Cop View Post
    At this point I am so used to everyone hating me, the few times when im working and someone says happy holiday or good morning its such a huge shock to me.
    That is odd. Hell I even told the officer who wrote my ticket to "you stay safe out there and have a good night". That is a pretty standard thing that I tell all LE that I come in contact with.
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    The beatings will continue until morale improves.

    Quote Originally Posted by jcioccke View Post
    After I hit it, I would be disgusted with her

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    Yet all of these individuals who are so disrespectful and dislike the Police are the first ones to call when shi- goes down. Your average citizen (who cares) hesitates because he/she feels they may be wasting the Officers time.
    Society today hated authority not just from PO but even basic authority from Managers and supervisors. We (society) are simplistic in nature and many don't think for themselves. If they read a story about the Police then they believe it to be real. Society (in general) don't question what their reading, they don't challenge the author/writer on their opinion. If I read it or saw it on the news it must be true. People are not smart enough to realize that in any profession you have bad seeds yet when it comes to a Bad Cop then we (society) paint the whole profession with a broad stroke. I don't see it getting better my friend, we as a society are so wrapped up in our I-Phones, FaceBook, Twitter, etc etc that we don't take the time to educate ourselves.

    As previously posted my friend you know the answer and I hope venting helped. Stay safe brother!!!
    MDRDEP:

    There are no stupid questions, but there sure are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYC_Subway_Cop View Post
    yeah i have noticed the same thing lately, especially on the web like you were talking about. the ultra left traditionally seems to hate police labeling LE as racist or abusive and the ultra right hates police because they are now extremely untrustworthy of anything government. I believe in gun ownership for the law abiding American citizen but some of the ideas the right has come up with recently are extremely disturbing many of them seem to lack personal responsibility which was a huge tenet of conservatism back in the days. Its as if many of the right wing has become anarchist in nature. I consider myself a traditional conservative so this is disheartening to me, the mind state of the American public is rapidly changing. At this point I am so used to everyone hating me, the few times when im working and someone says happy holiday or good morning its such a huge shock to me.
    It is possible that what is happening is the right are using fire to fight fire with the left. The left are always IMO waaayy off base, therefore, if the right is that far extreme maybe we can meet somewhere in the middle. I don't see it happening. What I do see is a civil war in our future although it won't be a line drawn from state to state but we all will be surrounded by enemies in our own backyard. I being in the right but not the extreme never would have considered applying for a permit to own a handgun. I am now in the application process. Going to a safety class recently made me even more uneasy with the crowd that was in there. As you said, anti-government, anti-LEO, anti-anyone but themselves. Well, I will be prepared when this country goes to hell in a hand basket!!

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    We have a society where what used to be traditional, or accepted is not taboo or weird. Vice versa.

    The norm was to take care of your children, mom or dad would be home when the kids got home from school and there was no idle time without guidance. I recall growing up with dad working and mom taking care of the family. I never had time to get into much trouble as I was supervised most of the time. We would have dinner all together at the dining room table, talk about the days events and be a family. Chores were a part of maturing and a part of family life.

    Now behavior like that is considered weird, unusual, not normal.

    Our country has been dumbed down to a level of functional illiterates. There are high school graduates that cannot even perform simple math tasks, yet they sure do "know their rights".

    Going to church, treating others as you would want to be treated....all pretty much gone now.

    Just look at the attitudes of most of the hard working people out there...work all week and for what? Then get home to a senseless sitcom and a 12 pack of beer to prepare for the next day.

    Our American culture has changed over the last 20 years and I am not sure that it was for the better. Divorce, single parent families, drugs, alcohol, holywood influences of some political agenda, ....it goes on. It is as simple as a change in culture. Just take for example the art of conversation. That will be gone soon as well. Speaking in "text" or "chat" is a new language.

    Taking responsibility for your actions....you shouldn't expect that with all the other changes around going on.

    As for the attitudes about the police....as law enforcement we have been portrayed to be animals in the media, print, movies etc....look at how many cop type tv series are out there, reality shows etc. When an officer takes action (such as in CA when the officer shot an armed, threatening, man with a bloody knife) look at the media reaction, they want ratings so they fuel the fires with their "reporting" which basically turns out to be second guessing the officer's decision and throwing the dept to the wolves.

    Now people are truly frustrated, which will soon turn to the next level if the same old same continues. Just imagine, as some of you probably have have experienced, loss of job, savings, retirement, etc......life is being run by career politicians living high off of our hard earned tax dollars, and those dollars not yet printed. People will only take so much before they go into a frenzy and the fringe groups tend to thrive in this situation.

    Cops are always the brunt of the wave as we are seen as the people that take their freedoms etc.....

    I have always wondered why protesters clash with police....what have the police done to them about the economy, or whatever beef they have?

    I am starting to sound like my dad, but that is not a bad thing at all.
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    Very succintly put chiefcop. DOAcop38 makes a good point. The loonies from both the far left and more recently from the far right seem to be coming at us in droves while at the same time, the majority of folks in the middle don't seem to garner the proportionate media attention. It's definitely more profound these days.

    Goofyness crosses all political spectrums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KapsFB View Post
    Very succintly put chiefcop. DOAcop38 makes a good point. The loonies from both the far left and more recently from the far right seem to be coming at us in droves while at the same time, the majority of folks in the middle don't seem to garner the proportionate media attention. It's definitely more profound these days.

    Goofyness crosses all political spectrums.
    Thank you for your kind words

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefcop View Post
    We have a society where what used to be traditional, or accepted is not taboo or weird. Vice versa.

    The norm was to take care of your children, mom or dad would be home when the kids got home from school and there was no idle time without guidance. I recall growing up with dad working and mom taking care of the family. I never had time to get into much trouble as I was supervised most of the time. We would have dinner all together at the dining room table, talk about the days events and be a family. Chores were a part of maturing and a part of family life.

    Now behavior like that is considered weird, unusual, not normal.
    That is how I grew up to a tee also. I agree with everything you said accept for this behavior is now considered weird or not normal. While I do not agree with everything friends do I have to say that their family does come first. The women are now forced to work to contribute to the household even though they tend to believe it also helps them to remain sane (which I tend to believe it just creates more stress due to constant rushing around). The economy does not allow us to live as we did with our parents. I thought the kids were supposed to have a better life than the parents??

    Then again back then there was no need for two or three vehicles, electronics to the hills, $100 sneakers, $100 cable/internet bill, cell phones, etc.

    Unfortunately families think they NEED all this stuff to stay happy so they work more and the result is kids left home alone, tensions between the parents to stay above water and no end in site.

    Everything is so out of control I just don't see how it will turn around or atleast stop until it all blows up in our face.

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    It also doesn't help when there are websites out there like this one:

    http://www.copblock.org/beactive/

    BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!

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    I think I have a theory as to why the far right is becoming increasingly hostile to LEOs. Cops are the most common government employee that most people see on a daily basis (besides the USPS mail carrier) hence they take their anger, fears, mistrust, etc on the most visible symbol of the government - the cops - the ones who enforce the laws. Cops are seen as being collaborators with the hated Obama, which is sad because they just enforce the laws and don't make them. If you try to explain that then they start talking about "Nuremberg" and "the just following orders excuse doesent work anymore". The extreme far right basically sees cops and the American equivalent of the WWII Vichy French Milice Francaise paramilitary internal security force

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefcop View Post

    The norm was to take care of your children, mom or dad would be home when the kids got home from school and there was no idle time without guidance. I recall growing up with dad working and mom taking care of the family. I never had time to get into much trouble as I was supervised most of the time. We would have dinner all together at the dining room table, talk about the days events and be a family. Chores were a part of maturing and a part of family life.

    Going to church, treating others as you would want to be treated....all pretty much gone now.

    Just look at the attitudes of most of the hard working people out there...work all week and for what? Then get home to a senseless sitcom and a 12 pack of beer to prepare for the next day.

    Our American culture has changed over the last 20 years and I am not sure that it was for the better. Divorce, single parent families, drugs, alcohol, holywood influences of some political agenda, ....it goes on. It is as simple as a change in culture. Just take for example the art of conversation. That will be gone soon as well. Speaking in "text" or "chat" is a new language.


    Taking responsibility for your actions....you shouldn't expect that with all the other changes around going on.


    I am starting to sound like my dad, but that is not a bad thing at all.
    I have to say I agree with you on a lot of things, and agree with what most are saying on this. Things are changing, and I like to believe I'm not the norm for my generation (24 years old). Some of this stuff that is the norm for my generation is embarrassing, and I always believed I should have grown up in the 50s!

    But I did want to comment on the bolded section. This is nothing new. This is not something that has just changed in the past 20 years. Yes, the divorce rate is one that has skyrocketed, but the other things. Drugs, alcohol. That has been around for HUNDREDS of years. Well, I guess I should say, with the drugs especially, thousands of years. What about alcohol in the 20s and during the depression. It was a big enough issue that there was an amendment that prohibited it. Then it was such a big issue that it was appealed. Drugs... can we say the 70's??? The whole piece on conversation. The way people talk now is different hen 20 years ago. The way people talked 20 years ago, was different then the way people talked 100 years ago. The way people talked 100 years ago, is different then the way people talked 200 years ago. Do you get the pattern? You can pick up any literary piece from different time periods, such as is taught in school, and you will see that the way we speak and write is constantly changing. Do I fear that it is changing for the worse? YES YES YES. I do have to add, thew ay people spoke 200 years ago, is a much more intelligent way then we spoke 50 years ago. With the declining of the English language, I am truly curious and somewhat fear how my possible future grandchildren will speak.

    My point is, you guys have it sound like the world is coming to an end. You want to know what? Your parents probably said the same thing you guys are saying about us. And their parents? Probably the same thing. Technology and improvements have drastically changed life and changes every generation. Kids in school say to me, they don't know how I went through with out facebook. I say to my parents, I don't know how you survived with out a cell phone. Back in the early 1900's, they said they don't know how they did it without the invention of the telephone. Their parents said they don't know how people lived without electricity, etc... Okay, a little drastic but you get my point!

    Finally, I'd like to put the blame on all of you (Isn't that what my generation is known for? No self responsibility haha). Every generation, the parents want their kids to have better than them. That results with kids being pampered more, having more, having to do less, etc. I don't agree with it. I like the values that were instilled in to my parents with the way they were brought up. And I will never agree that kids shouldn't get a good smack/spanking. I don't care what the "studies" say. Our parents survived and lived just fine... Sometimes that's what is needed.

    Don't even get me started on the differing views towards Police, disrespect of authority, etc.... That is what really makes me angy and get upset at my generation. I'm going on three years in law enforcement, and due to changing agencies, only another 24 years and 9 months left til' retirement. I love my job and couldn't imagine doing anything else.. But I fear for what the future has for us with our hands already being as tied behind our backs as they already are.

    Stay safe out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOAcop38 View Post
    I know that many here tend to lean to the right in terms of politics, and for many years I've gritted and groaned when the "party of the working man" ( the Democrats) pushed more and more anti police-uber liberal laws and polices which seem to protect the slimiest people in our society. But of late I've noticed a trend that the conservative branch has gone toward anti gov't/ anti police rhetoric as well.

    In this nation, the sense of FEAR has grown.Fear of minorities, fear of immigrants, fear of anything that is protrayed as "against hometown U.S.A" I was over on a Pro Gun/ Pro gun owners site, and seemed to find tons of Anti police attitudes-from folks who had whimsical images that made fun of Obama, to folks who plastered the American flag on their avatars, and had monikers like "proud american", or patriot. Many touted their supposed "Beliefs" in conservatism, but seemed to enjoy posting news reports or gossip about how some avg citizen BEAT a cop on a gun issue, with some even proudly proclaiming that they'd DARE any cop tell them what to do.( or try and stop them)

    Here in Ca. the attacks against police officers are well documented.Many of these folks started with the wost of rightwing soundbytes and rhetoric, and then WENT OFF the MAP.I recall a traffic stop where two young men from an affluent and rather low crime community were caught with an improvised club and mace( a baseball bat cut down from the handle with a strap attached, and a metal pipe with welded nails on one end) when advised they were under arrest, one angrily blurted out, "well if the commie gov't of california would let average people carry guns we wouldn't have to have this stuff when we came to L.A !!". This coming from two 19 yr olds in a BMW who just got off the less than dangerous 405 fwy ( a fwy that doesn't even come close to touching any real "ghetto areas")and drove 3 minutes into one of the most heavily OVERPOLICED/LOW crime places on the west coast. In the window were NRA and "recal Feinstein" sticker( something you usually don't see on "the OC" , BMW crowds vehicles)

    Bad enough that years of "liberal hug a thug" politics have allowed our inner cities and now suburbs to be crime zones, but the very same people who once claimed to support the police are now looking at us as "problem".We have "open carry" zealots who look for confrontations with CA. police officers( one recent issue locally was a Long Beach Park Ranger who stopped a man walking around "exercising his rights" in a crowded municipal park on the 4th of July) to fringe dirt bags like the two recently arrested for planting deadly IEDs to kill Hemet,Ca PD officers( suspects,BTW who have little of no affliation with rightwing or left wing criminal entities, but share a rightwing Anti gov't view).

    Whether its saggy pants street gangsters, like th POS that killed to florida police officers recently in Florida, or the People's rights, anti gov't nutjob in West Memphis who programmed his son into Anti OBama, anti police rhteoris and helped take the lives of 2 officers there, can anyone here tell me how do we "win" if we are protrayed as evil in the minds of society?
    Tyjpical BS from you. Of course you preface your 'middle of the road' fair and balanced post with 'fear of immigrants'.

    So which laws and policies can you credit the right or Republicans with that are anti-police? Anyone can cite what some individual has done or some garbage posted on the internet.

    'Anti Obama'...LOL, yeah, the current President has brought people in the White House who are anti-police and is friends with people who have harmed officers. I don't recall that being an issue with the last one.
    Last edited by tony.o; 10-02-2010 at 08:55 AM.
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    What constitutes a politician being labeled 'anti-police'? Attempts to curb spending?

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    okay...yeah..

    DOA, is this a rant or what the thread about ?
    you want do something about it ?
    vote this november. will that help ease your blood pressure ?
    Last edited by pfchell; 10-03-2010 at 01:59 PM.
    break censorship chains

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    cops are representatives of the government, and enforcers of the law. thus, be it guns or pot, cops are seen as the people who are the fascists, and not the legislators who actually wrote the law.

    the fact is, trust of the government is at its lowest point since watergate. in california, the legislature has an approval rating of 10%. cops being one of the most visible and most dealt with element of government bear the brunt of this negativity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberfoot View Post
    What constitutes a politician being labeled 'anti-police'? Attempts to curb spending?
    Maybe comments like............I don't know what happened but suffice it to say the police acted stupidly?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZYsW_PxWAM

    Or how about a politician who has an associate who belonged to a group that bombed a NYC police headquarters?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather..._(organization)
    Last edited by JPR; 10-04-2010 at 03:55 AM.
    Jubilant Patriotic Republican

    America gave Obama the benefit of the doubt when they elected him. Obama is now giving America the doubt of the benefit of his governance......Change you can bereave in!..JPR

  24. #24
    We Patrol Night and Day
    FNA209's Avatar
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    The police became the enemy in the early sixties because of incidents like the one in Birmingham, AL. That was reinforced in the late sixties in incidents like the one in Chicago during 1968. Since then, it's been trending as a downward spiral.

    Maybe a tad bit simplistic explanation, but both were pivotal in the cause of it.
    "Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince" - Unknown Author
    ______________________________________________

    "That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves." - Thomas Jefferson
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    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.” - John Adams

  25. #25
    Qui audet adipiscitur
    Bighead's Avatar
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    since when did we become the bad guys?
    1967.
    BNWS likes this.
    "A fanatic is one who won't change his mind, and won't change the subject." -Winston Churchill

    "I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts." -Will Rogers

    "To desire to save these wolves in society may arise from benevolence, but it must be the benevolence of a child or a fool" -Henry Fielding

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