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Thread: ..Since when did we become the BAD GUYS?....

  1. #26
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    DOA, I know you mean well, but do you really believe this GARBAGE you are dealing?

    Those of us who've been here awhile know your true bent and are not fooled by the "fair and balanced" tone in your question.

    The anti-establishment comments I've seen are often deserved; due to overzealous or heavy-handed tactics by a few of our brethren.

    As one who has been there - all cops are not the enemy - only bad ones are. Those who would exceed their authority and fail to remember their station in life.
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  2. #27
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    I apologize for the disjointed presentation below, but I noticed it back in the Spring, informed Officer.com of its existence, and they've apparently refused to fix it. Meanwhile, the other three vBulletin forums of which I'm a member did fix it, and we no longer experience this problem.

    So, Officer.com - please fix the problem.

    Back to the issue:

    I saw bits and pieces of the thread, none of which looked good, and only some of which people attempted to interject reason.

    So, DOAcop38, you know me. I've been here before. You know my position, what I stand for, and hopefully, you know that above all else, I stand for the law of our land, with all

    other laws emanating forth, down to each and every citizens' right and responsibility to

    uphold those laws.

    I suspect, however, you and I simply differ with respect to "the last mile."

    Regardless, I empathize with you and your duty. While serving in the miltary, I lost four

    good friends, one of whom was both my operations officer as well as my Sunday school teacher. I didn't even get to bury them, as they were states distant when it happened.

    Even so, I lost both my aunt and uncle, whom were buried with full Fire Department honors

    here in Colorado Springs, because of their service to our city, and I was blessed with the

    opportunity to participate in their remembrance.

    With that in mind, let's proceed.

    Quote Originally Posted by DOAcop38 View Post
    But of late I've noticed a trend that the

    conservative branch has gone toward anti gov't/ anti police rhetoric as well.
    We conservatives simply serve to preserve the government envision by our founding fathers, which involved a limited government as well as an empowered populace.

    In this nation, the sense of FEAR has grown.Fear of minorities, fear of immigrants, fear of

    anything that is protrayed as "against hometown U.S.A"
    And things won't change until we become both blind to race, but also, respective of immigration laws.

    Bad enough that years of "liberal hug a thug" politics have allowed our inner cities and now

    suburbs to be crime zones...
    I am surprised, but thankful you recognize this effect.

    ...but the very same people who once claimed to support the

    police are now looking at us as "problem".
    The only reason any law-abiding exerciser of our 2A rights would ever identify a law enforcement officer as a "problem" is if they've had either direct or ancilliary experience with an LEO who was actually a problem.

    Let's face it: The news media is out for blood, as it sells ratings which spells advertising dollars. That's just the way it works. It doesn't matter whether there's yet another OC meeting at a Starbucks or subway shooting in California - the media will jump on it because the viewer response rate is what pays their bills.

    So - knowing a bit more about how the media works, can all of us, LEO, OC, CC, average citizen, lurking politician, keep this in mind while attending to the needs of our country and while dropping your attempts to leverage the media to your own advantage? (I'm speaking primarily to the lurking politician. The rest of us don't stoop to such tactics)

    We have "open carry" zealots...
    Ok, that's enough with the term "zealots." I OC or CC about equally, depending upon the circumstance, and occasionly don't carry at all, although these days that's limited to specific instances where it's prohibited by law.

    The overwhelming, vast majority (99%+) of those of us who legally exercise our right to keep and bear arms will never wind up on your blotter. We both know and obey both our rights and responsibilities under the law.

    So please - stop mischaracterizing us as if we're among your worst nightmares!

    Thanks.

    ...can anyone here tell me how do we "win" if we are protrayed as evil in the

    minds of society?
    First, you're not portrayed as "evil" in the minds of society. If you were, society would have yanked your paycheck long ago.

    Relax!

    I'm a taxpaying member of society. I support what you do with a portion of my income.

    I'm also a citizen of our country, which means I've been taught, and support the Constitutional principles upon which our country was founded, including our (all our) right to keep and bear arms. This right was extended to the people for a reason, namely that in rural areas it might be days before law-enforcement could respond, but even today, it remains in the realm of minutes, while most murders and acts of aggression and violence are over in seconds.

    I'm sorry, DOAcop38, but I will never forfeit my right to keep and bear arms as a means of defending myself in any and all situations which might arise throughout the normal course of my existence.

    My rights to do so begin with the natural law invoked by our Founding Fathers in our Declaration of Independence, and stem forth through the statute foundation of our Constitution, followed by state statutes and subsequent case law.

    Yes, there are many judges throughout the land who'd like to subvert our Constitution to fit their view of the world, but they have been largely overturned, thank God. To those judges who would attempt to subvert the foundations of our entire society, I heartily recommend you abjucate you benches and return to your practice of representing clients.

    Please take five minutes to review the following and let me know what you think: Natural Law.

    Thanks.

    - since9

  3. #28
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    Unfortunately DOACop38, I think you view is correct. It seems to me that since the Clinton presidency and (unwarranted) claims by a certain member of the first family that allegations of perjury were only part of a "vast right-wing conspiracy", our country has become more polarized. As a conservative, I felt strongly that even the president of the United States had to obey the law and here (lying under oath during a civil deposition) was something that was clearly wrong. Although I supported the investigation of this incident and the impeachment proceedings, the rhetoric on both sides reached hysterical proportions. In response to Hilary's political attack and the claims that supporters of the investigation were only interested in sleazy matters involving the president's sexual history, those on the far right responded by accusing the Clintons of everything up to and including murder. The Waco (Texas) incident and the shooting on Ruby Ridge (Idaho) exacerbated matters, as far right 2nd Amendment supporters came to believe these actions by the "gobermint" symbolized attempts by Democrats and the left to seize firearms lawfully owned by American citizens. Obviously, neither case involved "regular" people, but with the passage of the "Assault Weapon Ban", many of those in the "center" started thinking there must be some basis for the fear exhibited on the far right.

    When the elections of 2000 ended, it was the Democrats who were now alleging a secret "plot" to do an end run around the Constitution, accusing the U.S. Supreme Court of handing over the presidency to an unqualified and unelected G.W. Bush. What unity was formed by the terrorists attacks on 9/11 and what (at the time) was believed to be the necessary invasion of Iraq, soon dissolved into bitter partisan fighting between the two parties. Again, the rhetoric on both sides gives little quarter to either the real truth or the fact that "gray areas" exist on both sides of most debates. If someone on the right says "X", someone on the left claims the stance is based upon ignorance and racism. If someone on the left says "Y", the right replies that they're communists, intent on subjugating anyone concerned with individual liberties.

    The Constitution means nothing to either side, except for the small sections they believe applies to their particular concern. We've lost the ability to dialog, to understand others' points of view, to reach reasonable compromise, or to even "agree to disagree" civilly. While I didn't support the election of our current president, I believe he's a realist. He knows how much our economy is suffering and recognizes that to deal with it a compromise must be reached with the newly elected (Republican) members of Congress. For his efforts, many members of his own party are now calling him a "traitor"! IMHO, this kind of language isn't any less reprehensible that the calls that he was a secret communist, an Islamic extremist "plant", or a racist intent on ruining our country at all costs. Disagreeing with the president's politics and stance on any issue or those who oppose him, has the same result: personal attacks and condemnation as one who is "Anti-American" and the enemy.

    As police officers, we are (or in my case: were) charged with enforcing the law, fairly and impartially, regardless of whether we personally approved of it, using constitutional guidance provided by the courts. As the most obvious and one of the most often encountered representatives of the government, the police are a great target. If it involves law, we're the ones who hand it to the public. We're the ones who enforce the "biased" legislation or back up the "outrageous" court decisions. It's the police that neither understand, nor care about constitutional rights and they're the ones who make theory expressed by stupid ______ wing (fill in the blanks) politicians a reality.

    So long as we have those who ferment the fires of division, hate and anger, and use to their advantage the politics of class warfare things won't be getting any better.
    Last edited by pulicords; 12-12-2010 at 08:58 PM.
    "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

  4. #29
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    Everyone is an expert on jobs they never had. We can't be there fast enough when they need us but treat us like garbage when they don't. I remember my days in college and high school and cringe at my immaturity. Now I know people grow old but not mature. We are society's babysitters; cleaning up their doodoo, calming their fits, protecting them from themselves. It's a thankless job.

    Had a bad day, wanted to vent.
    Standing by to stand by

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    Just a few thoughts from a guy who doesn't think officers are evil minions of anyone, just folks doing a tough and mostly thankless job, upholding the laws that are passed. I would ask you to step back a moment, take a minute out of your day and study the citizens around you. Depending on where you work (Southeast DC, I'm looking at you, parts of Baltimore too its just folks. The great majority of folks are just going about their business, never giving a thought one way or the other, happy in the ability to do just that, go about their lives in peace and quiet. you all help make that happen, and while they may not acknowledge that, they do know it.

    Stop a hundred citizens and ask them their opinions on police officers, and unless you catch them right after a publicized case, or are in a neighborhood like the ones portrayed in "The Wire" I think you will find that they still do respect officers. My daughter attends what is purported to be the "worst" school in our county, nicknamed "Ghetto Mills". And when I drop her off once in a while, its easy to see the standouts, the young men with sagging pants and other indicators of a less than upright lifestyle, and the future welfare mommies hanging with them. But whats easily missed are the hundreds of other students, just going about their lives, normal kids who will grow up to be normal adults, not having any antipathy toward officers. I suppose I'm asking you to step back from the fray for a moment and see that us out here, most of us do appreciate what you all do.

  6. #31
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    These kinds of topics are always so touchy I most the time will avoid them simply because, Trying to type what is needed to spread a message and convey that message so it is understandable with out voice, body language, hand gestures, eye movement ext. can come off to some meaning lost.

    Now from working on the web for 10+ years having worked on many forums, research for webdesigns, and my love to read and study our history and politics. We are very much in a cross roads or uncharted land that America has not really ever faced sence the revaluation.

    Many people are starting to feel that some where some how the Flow of Power that the People has control of Governments have changed directions. The people formed the states, The states owned by the People formed the fed. Government. The Constitutions lays out laws that is allowed or power given to the Federal Government of what it can and can not do. It limits Governments to very limited role in peoples lives.

    We seem to be a people that has a spirit of freedom, This idea of freedom seems to be embedded in us from birth. We are also a very trusting people. We tend to vote for the best speaker the one who tickles our ears with words we think sounds the best. The last 100 years show this to almost hold truth from the basic example of how taxes have gotten so out of control in a country that escaped, fought a war and won, against such abuse. The people have trusted in politicians to handle the afars at the Federal level and entrusted them to do this by the law laid out under the constitution.
    While the people trusted, Laws are being passed that eat way slowly at freedoms the people feel they should have and their voice of concern going unheard.

    The people have watched their money devalue over the years with no explanation from those trusted to handle such things all while gold and silver that once backed our dollar rise higher and higher.
    The people watch rich bankers, insurance companies and elitist grow from rich to wealth all while the working class are forced to work longer hours for a devalued dollar just to hold on to basics of what was once the dream of happiness. The people are taking notes of such things

    With out writing a book here, Most people I talk to and see on forums coming from doctors, lawyers, small business owners, middle class and lower class alike, People from all walks of life no longer trust government. This mistrust starts even at the local levels. This is something I have never seen before.

    The number seems to be growing of people who believe the government has a agenda and that agenda is not in the best interest of the people.
    The are worried that government is going to try and disarm the people of guns, And after what happen in Louisiana that fear has grown even to people that before then did not even own guns.

    The people knows that the 2nd amendment was not designed for home protection or self defense on ones property (that most don't even have now anyways) but was set up for the people to make sure government stays in check.

    I have heard more people in the last 2 years make statements that, If not for Hitlers police and military backing him he would not stayed in power.
    And now people are looking at police in the same light, I have heard some say that if some one was to demand guns outlawed the police would just follow orders and collect. They are worried and wondering if police would protect them and be their constitutional guards.

    All across the country with jobs low, people loosing what they have, food and gas rising, the money on the brink of collapse it is like a rubber band being pulled tight.
    What I typed in is not my opinion, It is what I read and hear (Not all) but more and more show concerns in.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water.

  7. #32
    More cowbell!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1042 Trooper View Post
    DOA, I know you mean well, but do you really believe this GARBAGE you are dealing?

    Those of us who've been here awhile know your true bent and are not fooled by the "fair and balanced" tone in your question.

    The anti-establishment comments I've seen are often deserved; due to overzealous or heavy-handed tactics by a few of our brethren.

    As one who has been there - all cops are not the enemy - only bad ones are. Those who would exceed their authority and fail to remember their station in life.
    +1 Our bad ones stay in the press longer and many people are starting to feel that the police misconduct is on the rise. Sometimes it does feel that way.
    Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The views expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer [This sig stolen from Brickcop who stole it from Frank Booth].

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbonfiberfoot View Post
    What constitutes a politician being labeled 'anti-police'? Attempts to curb spending?
    Absolutely. I see so much Obama bashing on this forum and it makes no sense.

    http://www.policegrantshelp.com/news...ions-for-cops/

    All I hear from the right these days is their new union busting, job cutting philosophy. The right needs more Rudy Giuliani's and less of what they have right now.

  9. #34
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    Is it lunch time yet?
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyNightOwl View Post
    Absolutely. I see so much Obama bashing on this forum and it makes no sense.

    http://www.policegrantshelp.com/news...ions-for-cops/

    All I hear from the right these days is their new union busting, job cutting philosophy. The right needs more Rudy Giuliani's and less of what they have right now.


    States and local governments can't print money, so yeah, jobs get cut when there is no money, mostly in the blue states due to mismanagement by democrats.

    Obama....what do you think he was doing when he was doing all that community organizing; telling his people to support the police or what a good job they were doing?

    Billions for cops...yeah right, after school programs etc.

    Just because I'm a police officer doesn't mean that I automatically support money, that they print out of thin air, to be thrown out there as a grant with the name COPS in it. So pulling some pie in the sky article out of Police One or the FOP doesn't make it credible to me. Matter of fact, the National board of the FOP is horrible and many of the local chapters do not support their opinions on political matters or who they endorse.


    I stopped working those 'grant' funded ticket writing details years ago because I got tired of writing bull**** speeding tickets, in a rush to reach the unmentionable ticket quota to justify my overtime, to people going to work in the mornings.

    When a federal grant actually buys a patrol car and pays for an officer to work the streets with me looking for thugs to actually reduce crime, then I'll say its a good thing. That money always has strings attached and is a waste.
    The liberal politician has the only job where they go to the office to work for everyone but those who pay their salary.

  11. #36
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    You're not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkon View Post
    …People from all walks of life no longer trust government. This mistrust starts even at the local levels. This is something I have never seen before.

    The number seems to be growing of people who believe the government has a agenda and that agenda is not in the best interest of the people.
    The are worried that government is going to try and disarm the people of guns, And after what happen in Louisiana that fear has grown even to people that before then did not even own guns.

    The people knows that the 2nd amendment was not designed for home protection or self defense on ones property (that most don't even have now anyways) but was set up for the people to make sure government stays in check.

    I have heard more people in the last 2 years make statements that, If not for Hitlers police and military backing him he would not stayed in power.
    And now people are looking at police in the same light, I have heard some say that if some one was to demand guns outlawed the police would just follow orders and collect. They are worried and wondering if police would protect them and be their constitutional guards.
    Here is a quote which I feel says it all: "Power is always gradually stealing away from the many to the few, because the few are more vigilant and consistent; it still contracts to a smaller number, till in time it centers in a single person. Thus all the forms of governments instituted among mankind, perpetually tend towards monarchy; and power, however diffused through the whole community, is by negligence or corruption, commotion or distress, reposed at last in the chief magistrate."
    Samuel Johnson: Adventurer #45 (March 27, 1753)

    Do I feel that LEOs are the problem in America? Nope. We the people are the problem. We are ignorant as a whole as to how things are meant to function and what our role is supposed to be. Don’t believe me? How many of you, your friends or your family can pass this basic civics test?

    http://www.isi.org/quiz.aspx?q=FE5C3...3-072BB31E2692

    Today I scored 32 of 33 correct, but ten years ago I would have failed completely. My understanding of our society and government has changed dramatically since I began to read dusty old books. I was trained up in government schools to become a compliant taxpayer. Not a good American and there is a big difference.

    The ignorant Many lash out when in pain or distress and demand that "something" be done. The Few step in and provide "something" and the ignorant Many settle back on their haunches, content for a while and the Few have gained a step forward.

    We are distracted by things and situations that roar and rage all around us and not many take the time to still themselves and think. To ask questions. To talk to others and actually discuss things of importance affecting their lives. To pray. Instead we watch the idiot box and each day steals away, lost forever.

    We as a people are divided on so many levels. George Washington warned us to avoid parties in our politics as they would be used by those seeking to undermine the Constitutional forms of government by dividing us and stealing our hard won freedoms. Has the Two Party system been good for America or Americans? We spend our political lives angry with “the other guys”, amazed at their stupidity. Are we that much smarter?

    I love America. But “I love the idea of America” would be a better statement. There are many things I would change here but I cannot. Would I move elsewhere? No. It’s better here than any other nation on Earth. Should I accept corruption and ignorance as the norm? No. We need to stand together and resist any effort to undermine what remains of the Framer’s ideas and roll back the things lost.

    Benjamin Franklin was a realist when it came to the work of ’87, “In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other.” It’s a sad commentary on our lives today that we, as a nation, are now becoming those corrupted people.

    The best I can do personally is to talk with my neighbors, LEO included, as a friend and help those folks move from the place of ignorance to a place of educated awareness where wise choices can be made.

    To the honorable Law Enforcers on this board, I thank you from the bottom of my heart and I wish you the very best.

    Please, in the days to come, remember that you were one of us first, before the badge.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1042 Trooper
    all cops are not the enemy - only bad ones are.
    /\ This.

    Quote Originally Posted by since9
    The only reason any law-abiding exerciser of our 2A rights would ever identify a law enforcement officer as a "problem" is if they've had either direct or ancilliary experience with an LEO who was actually a problem.
    /\ And this.
    Other than a couple of speeding tickets, I've had 2 nonconsensual interactions with police.
    Both times, they broke laws & infringed civil rights.
    The first time, the city paid thousands to apologize.
    The second case is still in court.
    Despite that, I don't see all officers as bad or corrupt.
    I know there are a few who are, & hope I never again meet any of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tachibana
    We can't be there fast enough when they need us but treat us like garbage when they don't.
    I agree with the first part, but not the second.
    I think most people are neutral to positive in their attitude toward LEOs. You're like a spare tire or fire extinguisher - when we need you we need & appreciate you, but otherwise we don't think about you much. (Not an exact analogy.)
    Criminals, OTOH, and people who have seen or been victims of misconduct...
    Yes, they're going to have bad attitudes where you're concerned.

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    I cannot answer all of your questions but the way we win is to keep doing what is rite. I was taught in the academy win stands for Whats Important Now. I think what is important is the way you treat people in any situation. I have had people treat me like dirt and I give them a warning on thier speeding ticket. The look of surprise on there face is amazing. The attitude change is instant it is so easy to understand people their simple. I also beleive you must live by and believe in the laws you enforce. I will tell you my wife always wanted to go to Ca. before I was a leo I would have no part of there liberal laws so I didnt go there. I am a law abiding citizen here in Mo. in Ca. I would be consciderd an outlaw. My stategy with getting people to comply is to talk to them like a person not like a cop while remaining profesional of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1042 Trooper View Post
    DOA,
    As one who has been there - all cops are not the enemy - only bad ones are. Those who would exceed their authority and fail to remember their station in life.
    I hate when someone abuses there power. The one that sticks out to me most is the always abused mis use of 911 and the abused slightly less filing a false police report. Im not saying these laws dont have a good use but I have seen them used when they didnt apply for instance the person calling for help or writing a statment thought they saw one thing but it turns out it was something else.
    The trouble I see with this is if we arrest someone for reporting something when they thought it happened why would they ever call us again the last time they called for help they were arrested. The first time I saw that I was so amazed that it could happen that way. I vowed I would never use those charges unless it is obvious they mislead me on purpose.

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    I'll probably be sorry I answered before reading every reply but I may get lucky this time! IMO,the enviornment,the upbringing and the location where one grew up has a lot to do with their "perception" of the police,along with the diminishing teaching of respect for others in the youngsters these days!

    When I was growing up (Middle 50's as a birth year,70's in high school)the responsibility of the parents and schools was much more enforced,taught and followed. There were no gangs and to not respect the authorities and your elders was simply unacceptable. I was raised to respect the law,those who enforced it,my teachers,my parents and my elders. I didn't have to like their opinions or ideas or what they told me to do but I had to show respect and do as I was told anyway! The police weren't mean and scary then,the parents were. It was encouraged to seek the help of a policeman (women LEO's were non-exsistent here then)if you were lost,scared or hurt. Their jobs then were to "scare" us into behaving while doing very little actual retaining. For a kid growing up here in my day,just a stern look from a cop would scare the bejesus out of us! I never egged a house,TP'd one or put shaving cream on windows and such on Halloween out of fear of getting caught by the police and then being taken home and made to tell my dad why a policeman was bringing me home! Understand that my dad did NOT beat us kids in any way but a serious thing like that made it so I'd have to go out and find my own stick off the lilac bush to be punished with! Only 3 whacks on a bare butt were ever given out but a kid has to learn what SIZE stick needs to be chosen and I knew by the third time of choosing a stick that they ALL hurt,just some worse than others and I quit doing what would send me to the lilac bush.

    Being born and raised in Wyoming and having lived here most of my life,seeing what it was like in California,New York,Chicago and Detroit was via t.v.,not experience. I grew up in a home where no t.v. was until 1964 and then was only allowed to watch 1 hour a week,and that was the Wonderful World of Disney. I was allowed no radio,t.v. or record player in my room the entire time I lived here and I left at 17,in 1971. Drinking age here was 18,open container was allowed along with DUIs. My folks didn't drink or smoke so I wasn't into that scene. I had strict rules to follow and was raised mainly by a nanny and my dad. Very sheltered and structured upbringing. Wasn't even allowed to go to my church dances as they had to have 1 policeman there to keep an eye on things and keep older kids away and if a cop had to be there,I couldn't be! I was taught you only got in trouble with the police if you broke the law and that if they told you to do something you did it immediately with no protest or questioning. I was never afraid of the poice but I was of jail as all I knew was about the chain gang years and that jail was very unpleasant,the food was bad and you had no door when you had to potty!

    I moved to Denver when I was 27 and had never lived in a city bigger than Billings,Montana and was horrified by all the people,their lack of caring and concern for others,the black communities and the need to not let your kids play outside alone or they could be stolen! My first encounter with the real world was the Rodney King thing and only saw it on t.v. Never even crossed my mind that LEO's were real people like me and their JOB was wearing a badge. I honestly thought they were born as a police officer,never wore anything but a uniform and never went home or had families! My perception was they were there to protect me from bad people,help me when I called them and rescue me from harm if need be. My first encounter with the police was a visit to my door at my home at 4:30 a.m. to tell me my daughter had been kidnapped and was still missing! I was in Denver,she was in Wyoming! When they gave me the message,handed me a paper with names and numbers I was to call and then just left,I was definately not seeing them as I should have. I felt they were cold,uncaring and not giving me info I needed. In reality they were doing their job,gave me all the info they had and told me what I needed to know would come from calling the numbers they gave me! They were simply messengers and cared enough to come in person over doing it by phone. This today would be said that they didn't feel like telling me what they knew,didn't care and had more important things to do. My daughter is alive today because of the efforts and caring of the police and sheriff in Wyoming who searched hundreds of miles of wide open nothing for hours and hours and then were alert enough to catch the guy with her before he could take her out of town and kill her,which was his plan. The officer who found her is still on the force here today and a couple years ago my girl went and told him in person while she was here visiting that he was still her hero,always would be and how much she appreciated him saving her that day! This was 27 years later! He was so moved by her visit that he came and waited for me to get done with my school bus route to tell me how impressed and moved he was by her visit,the big hug she gave him and what a beautiful woman she'd grown up to be! This kind of thing doesn't happen where the police are unable to give a one-on-one with everyone so the real person inside the uniform is very seldom seen and if it is,isn't appreciated like it should be!

    Big city people care little for others,teach their kids the same and seem to act as if making money is the main event in life. The rich kids want respect but won't give it,daddys' money buys them out of trouble a lot of times and a cop couldn't be as smart or important as they are or he'd be rich....right? Because they have money they couldn't be a common criminal and you best not treat them as such.

    Now here's where I need to be careful but give me a little bit of room for error if I don't say it exactly right! IMO,and from what I saw when I lived in Denver,the black community lived in certain areas only,had very little money and even less motivation to do the right things. They all acted as if they were owed something from everyone else,that to steal from others was the only way to get what they needed and were denied the chances everyone got. Most of them were living with only a mom who worked 2 or 3 jobs to pay the bills and put food on the table and had no time,energy or money to raise the kids. In the 80's the older black kids would get jobs to help but by the 90's they only sold drugs or stole from everywhere and everyone. By the late 80's Family Services began to get big on the discipline issue and began removing kids left and right for "abuse" when a parent simply spanked the kids. Yes,real abuse was happening but seemed to be overlooked because of the overload due to removing kids who should have been left alone. Then we went into the terrifying fear of losing our kids for using corporal punishment because Family Services,schools and others were telling the kids to tell someone if their parent spanked them because they weren't allowed to anymore! A child without discipline or consequences will grow up as the nightmares the police are dealing with today! I speak from experience as I was a parent who refused to bow down to Family Services or anyone else when it came to punishing my kids. Corporal punishment was NOT against the law,I only spanked them on their butts and only used my hand to do so. Had a mentally ill child who went to school and said I beat her when in fact she'd fallen out of a swing. From that minute on my life was a living hell but I refused to cower like an animal and paid the price. Because I refused to say I would no longer use corporal punishment they kept her and took her sister also,leaving the other 2 kids in the home. Witnesses,lawyers and years of court got me nowhere and taught me to hate the system. When they got her diaganosis,found her untreatable and unable to control her themselves,they came to me,said they knew now she was mentally ill and my parenting had nothing to do with her behavior and they'd return her to the home the next day. I told them they'd had 3 years and too many bad foster homes and the wrong treatment centers to make her even worse than she'd been before and that they'd been so adament about having her that now they could keep her! I had 3 other kids to worry about and finish raising and didn't claim I beat them,knew they'd get spanked if they needed it and if they reported me that they'd either live elsewhere for good or go up for adoption! They respect the police,their elders and others in general as adults. They work honest jobs for a living and have kids of their own. They don't shoot at cops or anyone else,they don't steal and they don't do drugs. They all grew up in Denver and moved on to other states and big cities. They respect me still for laying down the law and standing behind my beliefs!

    Too many excuses are made for the offenders by others,too little discipline in the raising area and too little of doing what's right as a parent,no teaching respect for others and not enough force used to end what's wrong is the problem today. Some things need to be taught and they aren't! Leave my kid alone cuz he's black,leave my kid alone cuz he grew up in a single parent home,leave the kid alone cuz he grew up in foster care,leave the kid alone because he was abused as a child!! How about leave the police alone because without them there's no hope left!! With no discipline at home,when the police have to do the discipline part,everybody hates them! If as a parent you refuse to do the job required to raise a half decent human being,then don't open your mouth when the police or courts have to do your job! They hate the cops because they got caught instead of blaming themselves for doing illegal things. They won't work but hate the cops for busting them for selling drugs! They'll kill at random for any reason or no reason at all but hate the cops for finding them and bringing them to justice! While the police arrest people of every color and neighborhood and have to use force at times due to the behavior of the offender,it's because of their skin color,money status or neighborhood they live in yet they want the police there instantly and on their side if they call 911! The idea that being a LEO means you're our "maids" in a uniform with a badge and a gun and that we pay your salaries and you're to do as we say and are to be at our beck and call seems to be a major malfunction that's getting worse over the years!

    If for a 24 hour period,in the entire United States,every LEO went on a strike and refused to go to work it would be the darkest,deadliest most dangerous 24 hours in history. Even what's going on with our goverment right now wouldn't compare to that 24 hours! No terrorist attack would compare. The end of our world as we know it could come then and if not,I bet 99% of us would wish it would! Too much hate for others,lack of understanding and acceptance and an unwillingness to put the blame where it really belongs and the refusal to admit being wrong is the problem with society today,not the LEO's who are only trying to keep the good,the bad and the ugly safe from the good,the bad and the ugly! How you do it day after day,year after year and don't go postal is beyond me!

    How dare we judge our LE people on how they treat us when they deal with people most of us cross the street to avoid,condem for their behavior as robbers,muggers and killers but cheer for if they "get" a cop for excessive force or false arrest or some such crap! How dare we hate the very people who rush to your 911 call even though last time they were at your house they got shot at or cussed out or disrespected! Your mechanic,Dr.,maid,lawn service and cleaning service would drop you in a heart beat if treated like that but it's ok to treat cops like that? We as civilians need to grow up,smarten up,shut up and treat them as we want to be treated. What goes around comes around! Call your mechanic next time you need the 911 service and see where it gets you and I don't care who you are.......green,brown,black,pink,purple or have more money than Donald Trump! I'll stick with respecting the LEO's whether I like the way they acted or their attitude towards me because they do the worst,hardest and under paid job around and I'll look inside myself a little closer and see if MY attitude or words caused them to act as they did or to have an attitude back! They are not our slaves,servents or babysitters. We pay those people better than the LEO's get and that just sucks! Sorry about the length! I'm done ranting now.
    chiefjack likes this.





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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by The King's Fool View Post
    People remember that one time Wal-Mart didn't have what they wanted. They remember that one time the food at that restaurant made them sick. They remember that one time they loaned someone money and didn't get it back. They remember that one time they are pulled over for speeding when they weren't or were harassed by a cop for no good reason (as they see it) or had to deal with a cop who "just didn't care". One bad experience will stand out more than 10 good ones, that's just how it is.

    It isn't your fault that you have a job that puts you in an adversarial position with many of the people you interact with. I'm sure it's frustrating to do such a difficult job where you are held to such a high standard and any shortcoming by you or anyone else is held against all of you in the public's perception. I get that. I wish it didn't have to be that way, but in today's society everything has to be someone's fault and it certainly can't be their own.

    Just remember that there are still right-wing, anti-government, gun-toting, whackos out there who actually appreciate the police and the job they do. I don't know any personally, but I'm sure they're out there.
    I do remember the couple of times I felt my experience with the police was definately lacking in the fun department but the most recent encounter with the law was recently and was so good that even the ticket is no biggie! The officer didn't smile nor was he "friendly" but he was very polite,professional and efficient. I was in the wrong,he was doing his job and I made no excuses,apologized for my infraction of the law,thanked him very profusely for knocking $10 off the fine for seat belt use,thanked him for the ticket and told him to have a nice day. He told me to slow down and have a safe trip and a nice weekend,went back to his car and I went on my way. The entire stop was less than 10 minutes,I felt ok about it and didn't care that 30 years had gone by since my last ticket! His attitude and professionalism and my acceptance for being wrong with not even 1 excuse for my being wrong made it a contact with LE that I'll never forget.

    He didn't have a hat on and he looked very nice in his uniform by the way! And his patrol car was sparkling clean! To me,being Highway Patrol in Wyoming is a job only an antelope would really want but this officer was good at his job,cared about the appearance of his vehichle and person and had absolutely no opinion of me,good or bad. His manner made my manner match his and the only thing neater than him was the dragonfly that kept trying to come in my window while he showed me the specifics of the ticket. Very nice day,very nice trip,very nice patrolman!

    Unfortunately,as civilians we grow up being told not to assume things about others,to not question what they say or do and not to judge but LEO's are taught the opposite so they can spot what us common folk don't or can't. They aren't psychics or mind readers so what they may percieve as suspicious behavior from us is what keeps them alive and while to us we were lost or dropped the phone or map and frustrated over being lost or late or whatever,their actions then set us off as now on top of it they're questioning us or making us more confused,nervous and now scared,when if we would simply put both hands on the steering wheel,take a deep breath and let it out,listen to him speak,answer him or comply and then when the time is right,explain to him that being lost,dropping phone,map and cig on the floor was the final straw because running late was what started the whole mess and could he direct you out of here and to the nearest bar?

    Their reason for stopping you and their approach is to be expected but they don't know if you're a killer or just an idiot yet you know they're a cop! We're the idiots,not them. And I wouldn't know a bad cop if he hit me in the head! If I'm not a bad person then my chances of running into a bad cop are slim to none. The chance of a cop running into a bad person is 1 out of every 2 so no matter what,his chances are worse than mine.

    We're all human,bleed red and put our pants on the same way. Good people do bad things sometimes for whatever reasons. No human or job goes without having bad ones in with good ones. To me a bad cop is not a lot different than a bad Dr. or mechanic. LE is a special breed but even they aren't so special as to not have bad along with good.
    chiefjack likes this.





    I have to quit saying "How stupid can you be?" Some people are taking it as a challenge!


    If guns kill people then pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk and spoons make people fat!

  17. #42
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    People that habitually break laws and are always trying to get away with something and believe their rights are more important than their neighbor's are always anti-cop unless they think they "need" one. Add to that- "extreme journalism"? and entitlement/victim mentality. Those types can't realize that the only reason they get to live their pathetic lives is because there are people who want to serve their community and country. It looks like you're looking for an overall, majority of people type of mentality that has turned against all LE and it's just not there. It's a small percentage of the people but they're the ones pi**ing you off. Or maybe I'm wrong.
    Last edited by innocent bystander; 04-09-2012 at 10:23 PM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by DOAcop38 View Post
    the "party of the working man" ( the Democrats) pushed more and more anti police-uber liberal laws and polices which seem to protect the slimiest people in our society. But of late I've noticed a trend that the conservative branch has gone toward anti gov't/ anti police rhetoric as well.

    Being a social conservative doesn't make you a republican.

    Right Wing Conservationism isn't what it was in the 70's, man.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckerspeed View Post
    Being a social conservative doesn't make you a republican.

    Right Wing Conservationism isn't what it was in the 70's, man.
    Wow- I was pizzed about the people I had dealt with one day back in July, '10 when I posted my ramblings on O.Com( a day when I actually had a LOWER paying but "less hassle" job offer, and seriously thought about quitting)

    Some here understood what I was posting about, some felt I should have elaborated, some even pointed out that my views were flawed by virtue of simplifying a complex overall view of policing in modern America( I thank trooper, and Puli cords amongst others for lending perspective. And "then" there were the usual crowd that thought it was an ATTACK on 2nd amendment rights, or the "political right"- a few who are the ZEALOTS I referred to and refuse to even consider another view point.

    I was just venting, that day- and needed to make a statement.

    and you are correct, conservatism( and I'm currently reading a copy of " conscious of a conservative", written by Barry Goldwater) is no longer the same thing as it once was- all I see in the media is bully boy, loud ranting, fear mongering, pessimistic people getting air time!

    as for the liberal view? plain old weak and wimpy, willing to allow anything, including denouncement of anything that made this country great( stable families, proud industry and workers, decent public education)- The Notions of a F.D.R/Truman democratic party ever coming back is dying as rapidly as the WW2 veterans that grew up under it, and DEFENDED it over seas...
    Last edited by DOAcop38; 06-23-2012 at 10:40 PM.
    "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

  20. #45
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    I realize this is an old thread, but I'd like to throw in my $.02. Keep in mind I'm speaking proverbially here.

    Why are you the "bad guys"? Simple. You are an extension of government, and usually the first line of governmental contact for people. I'm sure you've noticed that the amount of anti big brother/anti government sentiment has greatly increased over the past few years.

    The right wing is growing increasingly tired of "nanny-state" legislation. As it is your job to enforce, you're going to bear the brunt of the disparagement.

    Examples: Seatbelt laws. Helmet laws. Smoking bans. Property rights. Just to name a few.

    Personal example: I have a friend who owns a bar. Last year a smoking ban went into effect for the state of Wisconsin. Forget the fact that the legislators completely ignored business rights on the matter. You must now smoke outside, so my friend has ashtrays out there for his patrons. One night he collected the ashtrays to empty them out. As he came back inside a couple new customers came in. He set the ashtrays down behind the bar to serve them. As that happened, 2 officers came in on a "bar check". They saw the ashtrays filled with cigarettes and threatened to write him a ticket (You see, bars are not even supposed to HAVE ashtrays/lighters/matches etc INSIDE the premises anymore). He explained the situation and asked them how was he supposed to empty them if he couldn't bring them inside to the garbage? They went rounds on this before the officers finally left.

    Now in the above situation you've upset a core person of right-wing ideology... that being a conservative small business owner who's already angered by a government telling him what he can and cannot do on his own property.

    Unfortunately there are loads of nanny-state regulations like this. A potential solution is quite simple - STOP enforcing them. Stand by your citizens and help to protect their rights rather than let the government erode them. Any law passed becomes moot if nobody will enforce it, and the powers that be can't fire you all.

    All of this may sound alarmist, but this is how it starts.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by preps View Post
    .

    Now in the above situation you've upset a core person of right-wing ideology... that being a conservative small business owner who's already angered by a government telling him what he can and cannot do on his own property.

    Unfortunately there are loads of nanny-state regulations like this. A potential solution is quite simple - STOP enforcing them. Stand by your citizens and help to protect their rights rather than let the government erode them. Any law passed becomes moot if nobody will enforce it, and the powers that be can't fire you all.

    All of this may sound alarmist, but this is how it starts.
    uughh, "right to redress?"( as in the court system) the nanny state opinion you have is yours, however, for every person that is trying to do the right thing, we have a number who AREN'T and take advantage of lack of the enforcement of law. Without LAW ,we have chaos.

    Regulations in this nation keep our roads safe to drive, our water clean to drink, and many other things that have become popular to ATTACK by a rightwing hell bent on turning things BACK to the not so good 19th and early 20th century. Do you actually know who beneifts from lack of enforcement? not the small business owner such as yourself, but the coporate giants who get to skate ,when the small business man, end up paying the bill for beat up roads big business runs their trucks over, or for the trash and sanitation big business skates on paying for when they excessively pollute.

    Sorry if you feel slighted, but remember, that "nanny state" probably protects you better than the delusion that free enterprise( and big private corporations exerting their will) has. What you do on your private property is your RIGHT- UNTIL it has the potential to infringe on someone elses "rights". I personally HATE smoking and smokers- quite a few don't give a damn if they blow their smoke in your face or stink the room or air up as long as they can feed their addiction. but if there's a place for it, allow it- and to me thats in Bars.

    The notion that the gov't is the "problem" has been the talking point of the republicans and conservatives since the FDR administration, and has been used to distract the average man from the actual erosion of rights in this country- the RIGHT to have suitable working conditions( who do you think is against fair wages?).The RIGHT to not be dominated by usury in our banking system( who do you THINK is against poor people getting an opportunity to succeed in this country financially?). The RIGHT to not be bowled over by powerful private interests in our court and legal systems( who do you think wants tort reform in their favor?)........
    Last edited by DOAcop38; 06-26-2012 at 12:10 PM.
    "we're americans ! We don't quit because we're wrong, we just keep doing it wrong UNTIL it turns out Right"...

  22. #47
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    You know what son?

    You answered your own question when you put "exercising his rights" in quotation marks.

    It just so happens that when a citizen openly carries a firearm, he IS excercising his rights, GUARANTEED rights. And when misguided LEO's jerk that citizen's chain instead of encouraging that citizen to carry a gun to protect himself and his community they make virulent enemies out of people who want to support law enforcement, who KNOW their rights, and who are deeply offended when those rights are violated.

    There was a time when it was a given that an armed citizen would come to the aid of an embattled police officer. But law enforcement is LOSING those people because of bone-headed LEOs who refuse to respect gun ownership rights.

    You can be a public servant, or you can be a government strong-arm man. In my law enforcement days we knew which was which. Nowadays the distinction seems to be getting blurred.

  23. #48
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    ..........agreed
    From da' land O' nervous sheep.
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    Sully, usually I hafta glance over your posts cuz my brain would have issues with the imagery you portray, however with that one I get it. And I agree one hundred percent with ya.
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    I swear to god you are not human. I have seen enough episodes of X-Files to know a rogue VI (Virtual Inteligence) when I see one.
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  24. #49
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    -------------yup
    Last edited by Vorkon; 07-22-2012 at 12:44 AM.
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  25. #50
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    Yup. Mission creep is a bitch.
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    The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. - Sir Robert Peel

    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

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