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  1. #1
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    Cited for failing to yield to oncoming traffic

    Hello all,

    I would like to get some advice from you police officers. So, here is my situation.

    I was pulling out of a college private drive into a 4 lane road and was making a left turn. This was at around 10:10 AM and their was some rain coming down. There was a stop sign so I pulled up, stopped, looked right- no cars, looked left and saw a car in the first lane closest to the edge. The oncoming car was about 200 feet away so I proceeded and pulled out. When I almost completed my left turn, I felt a smash into my rear driverside. Apparently, the other driver switched lanes and "cut" my angle off which resulted with me spinning into a few 360's and stopping directly the way I came out. Acting instantly, I pulled back into the road that I had orginally came out.

    After I was safely stopped, I got out and the other car pulled up that was involved in the collision. At this point I was very confused (never been in an accident) I asked the other female driver if she had seen me pull out. She replied saying "I made a lane change...". There was no witnesses that stepped forward, so I was still thinking that this was my fault.

    Anyway, she calls the police, the police officer shows up asks what happened she tells him that I pulled out and we hit each other. I didn't say much (or nothing at all) since I thought that this was still my fault. I was really dazed from the situation and was trying to piece together what had happened. After the officer wrote the ticket I asked him about her making a lane change but he replied saying that would be up to a judge to decide.

    The ticket was 175 dollars and no-airbags were blown nor was anyone injured. I believe that the other driver was at fault so I contested the situation and am waiting for my court date.

    BTW: This happened in Washington state if that changes anything.

    When pulling out of this drive you are only able to see 200 feet towards oncoming traffic due to the way the road suddenly drops resulting with a limited sight distance. I saw her just as she was coming up (200 ft away) and if it takes a car to cross 2 lanes in 3 seconds, than she must have been going around 47 mph. The actual distance is 173 feet, according to google maps. I was even driving there 42 mph and saw an SUV pull out just as I did and clearly there was more than enough space to complete the turn.

    I believe that I was not at fault and that she could have avoided the situation easily eithier by not lane changing for no reason, swerving, braking, or simply going the speed limit. The speed limit on that road is 35 MPH and the recommended speed limit is 30MPH in this area.

    I am still young and not much of an experienced driver. But, since I have contested the citation I would like to know what is worth being said in court. Should I just explain the situation and hope for the best? I have also never been involved in any other traffic violations.

    I'm not sure if this matters but this "intersection" is a very common place for collisions. A week after my collision 2 other cars were involved and it was also raining and around the same time. Coincidence? I think not. I should have used extra caution after seeing several collisions there.

    Well, insurance went up, and now I'm stuck here trying to figure how to present this to the judge. I will most likely be going against the police officer if he appears in court. Please comment or reply with your thoughts or advice.

    Thank you gentlemen in advance.
    Last edited by Busted191; 05-07-2010 at 04:17 PM. Reason: spelling

  2. #2
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    You pulled out into oncoming traffic. It was your duty to ensure that you could safely complete the turn regardless of the actions of the other party. You were properly cited for failing to yield the right of way.

    By your own admission, your an inexperienced driver on a rain-slicked roadway at an known dangerous intersection. You still decided to pull out into the path of oncoming traffic and you see the result.

    Fortunately, nobody was hurt. Learn from your mistake and move on.
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    Under the circumstances you describe, you were at fault. The specific charge is "Failure to yield right of way". In addition to making the required stop at the posted stop sign, you are required to yield the right of way to any traffic on the roadway you are crossing or entering. Now, before you become incensed, angry, and defensive concerning our replies, you have the option of pleading not guilty to the citation. You indicate you have done this. When your court date rolls around, explain your side of the story to the Judge. He/she will render a verdict according to the statute and the testimony given.

  4. #4
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    Any driver of a vehicle entering a through highway from private property or public property that is controlled by signs or signals is required to yield the right-of-way to any vehicles that are immediately approaching the location that may be a hazard at any time the movement is being made, and shall continue to yield until those vehicles have cleared the area.

    You are in violation of the Right-of-Way rules.

    The vehicle on the through highway can make a lane change as long as it does not interfere with any vehicle that lawfully occupies the lane of intended movement.

    Pay the fine and move on!
    Last edited by SgtCHP; 05-07-2010 at 04:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT936 View Post
    You pulled out into oncoming traffic. It was your duty to ensure that you could safely complete the turn regardless of the actions of the other party. You were properly cited for failing to yield the right of way.

    By your own admission, your an inexperienced driver on a rain-slicked roadway at an known dangerous intersection. You still decided to pull out into the path of oncoming traffic and you see the result.

    Fortunately, nobody was hurt. Learn from your mistake and move on.
    Please take no offense, but I would like to use this to support my answer.

    Everytime that someone pulls out of a road into traffic it is based on faith and judgement. There is no way to know or tell if the other driver will speed up and purposely hit you. This is not my first time that I pulled out of this intersection and I believed and judged that I was going to make it. There was no doubt in me that I was not going to make it.

    From my point of you, that's like saying cars can switch lanes and "accidently" run into people that pull out.

    I consider myself only inexeprerienced or not as experienced because there are others like your that have been driving more than I have, hence I cannot say that I am experienced as you are.

    I have never actually seen any collisions in this intersection, but have seen cars damaged or being towed away. It really is very hard to judge the circumstances or think twice about something unless you actually see it what had happened.

    I apoligize if this is the wrong way of looking at things but I'm still learning and all of your posts are very helpfull for me to fully understand the situation.

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    As has been stated, go to court and tell the judge your side of the story. That's about all you can do if you feel you weren't at fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtCHP View Post
    Any driver of a vehicle entering a through highway from private property or public property that is controlled by signs or signals is required to yield the right-of-way to any vehicles that are immediately approaching the location that may be a hazard at any time the movement is being made, and shall continue to yield until those vehicles have cleared the area.

    You are in violation of the Right-of-Way rules.

    The vehicle on the through highway can make a lane change as long as it does not interfere with any vehicle that lawfully occupies the lane of intended movement.

    Pay the fine and move on!
    Sergeant,

    How do you pull out of a private road? What goes through your head at that point? What do you judge when you see oncoming cars a fair distance away?

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    Just to maybe give you a more of a detailed explanation. This picture allows you to see intersection.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busted191 View Post
    Please take no offense, but I would like to use this to support my answer.

    Everytime that someone pulls out of a road into traffic it is based on faith and judgement. There is no way to know or tell if the other driver will speed up and purposely hit you. This is not my first time that I pulled out of this intersection and I believed and judged that I was going to make it. There was no doubt in me that I was not going to make it.

    From my point of you, that's like saying cars can switch lanes and "accidently" run into people that pull out.

    I consider myself only inexeprerienced or not as experienced because there are others like your that have been driving more than I have, hence I cannot say that I am experienced as you are.

    I have never actually seen any collisions in this intersection, but have seen cars damaged or being towed away. It really is very hard to judge the circumstances or think twice about something unless you actually see it what had happened.

    I apoligize if this is the wrong way of looking at things but I'm still learning and all of your posts are very helpfull for me to fully understand the situation.
    I think we all pretty much understand. You assessed the situation, made a calculated judgment, reasonably believed your turn to be safe and made it.

    Unfortunately, your assessment was in error. Your defense that the driver changed lanes will not hold water. When you consider how fast a vehicle travels per second, the fact that you assumed the driver would not change lanes means you were cutting things so split second close as to be recklessly dangerous.

    If you find a copy of your state's law, I believe it will say that you must yield right of way to oncoming traffic. If you turn in front of a car and it hits you, you failed to yield right of way. It's that simple and no matter how good a story you tell, all the judge will concern himself with is - if they hit you, you did not yield right of way.

    I'm afraid the issue here is not that you are in the right, but that you don't want to admit that you are wrong. This is not one you will be able to talk your way out of.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busted191 View Post
    Sergeant,

    How do you pull out of a private road? What goes through your head at that point? What do you judge when you see oncoming cars a fair distance away?
    The ability to judge the speed of oncoming traffic comes with practice and experience.

    For your information, vehicles that are approaching your location from the right and left often appear to be moving slower than they are. It is an optical illusion brought about because there is no fixed object that can be relied upon to sustain a reasonable conclusion.

    For that reason, officers will rarely write a ticket to someone approaching or going away from them at an angle unless they are using an electronic measuring device or a speed pace in the police vehicle.

    Irrespective of the illusion, it is incumbant upon you, as a driver, to assure that all aspects of your movement be made with safety and without interfering with the lawful movements of vehicles who have the right-of-way.

    Here is how the California Vehicle Code addresses your issue. It is quite similar to every state in the nation. In fact, the Uniform Traffic Code, which is used by all states and a number of foreign countries have wording similar in nature.

    Entry Onto Highway
    21804. (a) The driver of any vehicle about to enter or cross a highway from any public or private property, or from an alley, shall yield the right-of-way to all traffic, as defined in Section 620, approaching on the highway close enough to constitute an immediate hazard, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to that traffic until he or she can proceed with reasonable safety.

    (b) A driver having yielded as prescribed in subdivision (a) may proceed to enter or cross the highway, and the drivers of all other vehicles approaching on the highway shall yield the right of-way to the vehicle entering or crossing the intersection.

    Amended Ch. 623, Stats. 1988. Effective January 1, 1989.
    The (b) section would apply if the driver had pulled out in a safe manner and another vehicle, that was not entitled to the right-of-way intially, encountered the first vehicle.

    This reasoning would be because the second vehicle entered the highway from another private property or a different side street and was not clearly a hazard when the first vehicle began its movement.

    Unless witnessed by a police officer, the (b) section is rarely, if ever, used when a traffic accident results within the definition of the (a) section.
    Last edited by SgtCHP; 05-07-2010 at 06:27 PM.
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  11. #11
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    The girl you "met" on the roadway had exclusive rights to the roadway. When a vehicle has any type of traffic control device they must yeild to oncommin traffic unless another traffic control device dictates otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L-1 View Post
    I think we all pretty much understand. You assessed the situation, made a calculated judgment, reasonably believed your turn to be safe and made it.

    Unfortunately, your assessment was in error. Your defense that the driver changed lanes will not hold water. When you consider how fast a vehicle travels per second, the fact that you assumed the driver would not change lanes means you were cutting things so split second close as to be recklessly dangerous.

    If you find a copy of your state's law, I believe it will say that you must yield right of way to oncoming traffic. If you turn in front of a car and it hits you, you failed to yield right of way. It's that simple and no matter how good a story you tell, all the judge will concern himself with is - if they hit you, you did not yield right of way.

    I'm afraid the issue here is not that you are in the right, but that you don't want to admit that you are wrong. This is not one you will be able to talk your way out of.
    The fact that the driver changes lanes doesn't effect much. My assessment was an error because of the fact that this driver was speeding.

    My main argument or proof was to calculate the distance away from my location and present to the judge that if the car was going the posted speed limit then I would have made the turn easily. But after reading your counterarguments, I doubt this will hold much ground in the court room. Thoughts?

    Thank you all for your responses and advice. They are very down to the point which opens up a whole different view.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busted191 View Post
    Please take no offense, but I would like to use this to support my answer.

    Everytime that someone pulls out of a road into traffic it is based on faith and judgement. There is no way to know or tell if the other driver will speed up and purposely hit you. This is not my first time that I pulled out of this intersection and I believed and judged that I was going to make it. There was no doubt in me that I was not going to make it.

    From my point of you, that's like saying cars can switch lanes and "accidently" run into people that pull out.

    I consider myself only inexeprerienced or not as experienced because there are others like your that have been driving more than I have, hence I cannot say that I am experienced as you are.

    I have never actually seen any collisions in this intersection, but have seen cars damaged or being towed away. It really is very hard to judge the circumstances or think twice about something unless you actually see it what had happened.

    I apoligize if this is the wrong way of looking at things but I'm still learning and all of your posts are very helpfull for me to fully understand the situation.
    Your perception and understanding of the Rules of the Road are totally skewed. Try a little mental exercise. Put yourself in the position of the driver in the roadway you entered.Doing that, you might begin to grasp the significance of what we're attempting to get across to you. Okay, let's review once more. In the situation, and subsequent accident you reference, YOU are at fault. The aftermath of accidents you referenced at this intersection, should have added to your awareness of the potential hazards involved. Plead your case in court, try to avoid the blame shifting you've attempted here. Bring your checkbook, and be prepared to pay the appropriate fine and court costs. When that's all done. Thank Heaven the accident wasn't worse, learn from it, move on.

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    Although you haven't QUITE gotten to the point of arguing yet, let me just tell you what generally happens on this website. Someone comes here and asks a question about their accident, because they think the officer was wrong. Then, they get a bunch of answers from cops saying that the citation was properly issued. Said person then gets upset and wants to argue their point. Please don't let it go that way.
    For the cops out there: You are an adult. If you want to write someone, write them. If you don't want to write someone, then don't write them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffIL View Post
    Although you haven't QUITE gotten to the point of arguing yet, let me just tell you what generally happens on this website. Someone comes here and asks a question about their accident, because they think the officer was wrong. Then, they get a bunch of answers from cops saying that the citation was properly issued. Said person then gets upset and wants to argue their point. Please don't let it go that way.
    I have nothing against the officer because I didn't say anything when he was asking questions. I was so dazed at what had happened I couldn't even talk straight for a second. Maybe if I told my side of the story right then and there, then there might be a different opinion on things.

    My intentions on here are not to argue with any of you and I respect the fact that you are or have been the higher authority to help uphold the law on the road. I joined only to get your proffessional advice and as you already know this whole thing is very new to me. After stating my point of view and reading your very educated posts, I can only hope that the judge will take pity on me.

    I do have one more question and it's only of what will happen in the court. Since I already scheduled a court date, what are my options? I was told that the judge can offer 50% off your fine, but from what I understood the "challenge" is a win or loose situation. Any input on this would really be appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Busted191 View Post
    I have nothing against the officer because I didn't say anything when he was asking questions. I was so dazed at what had happened I couldn't even talk straight for a second. Maybe if I told my side of the story right then and there, then there might be a different opinion on things.

    My intentions on here are not to argue with any of you and I respect the fact that you are or have been the higher authority to help uphold the law on the road. I joined only to get your proffessional advice and as you already know this whole thing is very new to me. After stating my point of view and reading your very educated posts, I can only hope that the judge will take pity on me.

    I do have one more question and it's only of what will happen in the court. Since I already scheduled a court date, what are my options? I was told that the judge can offer 50% off your fine, but from what I understood the "challenge" is a win or loose situation. Any input on this would really be appreciated.
    The Judges I've seen in Traffic Court are usually pretty good at explaining Defendant's options to them. Rather than for me to speculate here, the best thing for you to do is, go to court, plead your case, and listen to the options the Court offers you.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busted191 View Post
    The fact that the driver changes lanes doesn't effect much. My assessment was an error because of the fact that this driver was speeding.

    My main argument or proof was to calculate the distance away from my location and present to the judge that if the car was going the posted speed limit then I would have made the turn easily. But after reading your counterarguments, I doubt this will hold much ground in the court room. Thoughts?

    Thank you all for your responses and advice. They are very down to the point which opens up a whole different view.
    I always heard this argument at ROW violations." ......but Officer, the other car was SPEEDING!"


    Right of Way= The immediate use of the highway
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  18. #18
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    It doesn't matter if she was speeding or not, she has possession of the road and the responsibility to yield was yours. It never hurts to go to court and try and explain it to the judge.


    I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipCal View Post
    Your perception and understanding of the Rules of the Road are totally skewed. Try a little mental exercise. Put yourself in the position of the driver in the roadway you entered.Doing that, you might begin to grasp the significance of what we're attempting to get across to you. Okay, let's review once more. In the situation, and subsequent accident you reference, YOU are at fault. The aftermath of accidents you referenced at this intersection, should have added to your awareness of the potential hazards involved. Plead your case in court, try to avoid the blame shifting you've attempted here. Bring your checkbook, and be prepared to pay the appropriate fine and court costs. When that's all done. Thank Heaven the accident wasn't worse, learn from it, move on.
    About a week after my collision I decided to reply the scenario in the position of the other driver. I was doing 7 miles over the speed limit (the max in our state) when an SUV pulled out of the same intersection to complete the turn. The SUV pulled out with more than enough space. That's why I have reason to believe that the driver was speeding at least 10 miles over (according to my calculations 12.5).

    I'm not sure about you guys but when I see a car pulling out I don't floor it an try to run into people. Maybe if everyone was like this than we wouldn't have so many collisions. But then that's like saying if we didn't have bad guys we would not need so many prisons. Go figure.

    Eithier way, I can see how my opinion would not do very good in court. Again I thank all of you for giving me an insight into a whole different side of the story.

    Edit: Roadkingtrooper I can't keep up with the pace that you guys are posting at. Please disregard this post.
    Last edited by Busted191; 05-07-2010 at 07:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhilipCal View Post
    The Judges I've seen in Traffic Court are usually pretty good at explaining Defendant's options to them. Rather than for me to speculate here, the best thing for you to do is, go to court, plead your case, and listen to the options the Court offers you.
    I see. I guess I will be doing just that. Thank you all for your precious time. I walk away to know that I learned something a lot more valuable. This board has a good bunch of officers and my highest respects go out to all of you. May this collision of mine teach me to be more prepared for the road and I hope to never be involved in another one again.

  21. #21
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    Let's put it in another way. The driver of the other vehicle is cruising along, sees you pull out in front of her, believes a collision is eminent and tries to turn away from the crash. The only direction available is to the left. She was probably hoping that you would realize your error and stop.

    Are you starting to see the problem here? You really don't seem to get that YOU ARE AT FAULT. This crash occurred because you made a poor decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by kontemplerande View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRT936 View Post
    Let's put it in another way. The driver of the other vehicle is cruising along, sees you pull out in front of her, believes a collision is eminent and tries to turn away from the crash. The only direction available is to the left. She was probably hoping that you would realize your error and stop.

    Are you starting to see the problem here? You really don't seem to get that YOU ARE AT FAULT. This crash occurred because you made a poor decision.
    Please take a look at the image.


    Why would the driver turn left?

  23. #23
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    See....here it comes. You have been given the answer. You are at fault. You had the duty to yield when entering the roadway. It doesn't matter if she was going slightly over the speed limit, painting her nails, eating...you were wrong.
    For the cops out there: You are an adult. If you want to write someone, write them. If you don't want to write someone, then don't write them.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busted191 View Post
    Please take a look at the image.


    Why would the driver turn left?
    Why would you pull out in front of her?

    Last time, IT WAS YOUR FAULT!
    Quote Originally Posted by kontemplerande View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busted191 View Post
    About a week after my collision I decided to reply the scenario in the position of the other driver. I was doing 7 miles over the speed limit (the max in our state) when an SUV pulled out of the same intersection to complete the turn. The SUV pulled out with more than enough space. That's why I have reason to believe that the driver was speeding at least 10 miles over (according to my calculations 12.5).

    I'm not sure about you guys but when I see a car pulling out I don't floor it an try to run into people. Maybe if everyone was like this than we wouldn't have so many collisions. But then that's like saying if we didn't have bad guys we would not need so many prisons. Go figure.

    Eithier way, I can see how my opinion would not do very good in court. Again I thank all of you for giving me an insight into a whole different side of the story.

    Edit: Roadkingtrooper I can't keep up with the pace that you guys are posting at. Please disregard this post.
    As I final note to you,(I hope), you can re-enact the accident all you want. You can go fast, you can go slow, but the bottom line is......ready? The accident is your fault. Let's assume for a moment that the diver on the roadway was, in fact speeding. The accident is still your fault as you violated his right of way. All of that said, you're on the verge of overthinking and over analyzing the collision. The forum has more than answered your inquiry. Step up to the plate, acknowledge that the accident was your fault. Learn from it, and move on.

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