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  1. #1
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    Deputy zaps boy, 10, with Taser

    There is a BIG community outrage over this. What do you think?

    http://chieftain.com/articles/2009/1...a454367982.txt



    Deputy zaps boy, 10, with Taser

    By NICK BONHAM
    THE PUEBLO CHIEFTAIN
    An "out of control" 10-year-old foster child was shocked with a Taser and arrested by sheriff's deputies Monday in Pueblo West.

    Capt. Jeff Teschner, head of patrol at the Pueblo County Sheriff's Department, said Wednesday that the deputies involved were justified in their use of force.

    "They followed all policies and procedures. This was appropriate use of the Taser device," Teschner said.

    The boy did not sustain injuries in the 3:30 p.m. incident in the 300 block of West Morning Glory Drive, Teschner said.

    Deputies Mark Myers and Randy Mondragon were sent to foster parent Daniel Biby's home to help with an "out of control juvenile" who was reportedly destroying property. Mondragon said the boy had threatened Biby with a pipe and a stick, and had thrown a landscape timber at Biby.

    Mondragon said that when deputies arrived, the boy ran away from them holding a 2-foot-long pipe.

    "This lad, we have a long history of (him) running away. I don't know what his entire psychological profile is, but obviously he has emotional distress," Teschner said.

    The boy ran to a neighbor's yard where he cornered himself between a camper trailer, pontoon boat and a fence, Mondragon

    said.

    The boy ignored a deputy's commands to drop the pipe. "I'm not going to drop the pipe," the boy is quoted as saying in a report.

    Because he is a juvenile, the boy's name was omitted from a copy of the incident report written by Mondragon and provided to The Chieftain.

    Teschner said that because of the tight quarters the boy was in, stunning the child with a Taser was a more effective way of arresting the youth rather than using pepper spray.

    "They couldn't get close enough to deploy pepper spray without putting themselves in danger," Teschner said.

    Myers deployed the Taser at the boy, who then dropped the pipe, and Mondragon arrested the boy.

    "(Biby) said nothing else seems to work with (the boy), so he is going to pursue charges against him," the report said.

    The boy was booked into Pueblo Youth Center on suspicion of menacing with a deadly weapon. Biby declined an interview.

    Teschner said the department's policy on Tasers is not age specific nor does it mention Taser use on juveniles.

    "It's important to use best judgment and consideration anytime you deploy these devices, whether it's an old person or a young person. We followed all our policies and procedures, and I think in this particular instance, (the Taser) was used in an appropriate effect," Teschner said.

    nickb@chieftain.com

  2. #2
    DAL
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    So what's the big deal? What did they want the deputy to do?
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

  3. #3
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    I think that people are sheep who can be led around by a liberal media that hates the concept of the tazer, and will jump on any perceived abuse by police.
    The use was proper and those in the community who are 'outraged' need to shut the fark up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DAL View Post
    So what's the big deal? What did they want the deputy to do?
    His job. And, as we all know, doing your job automatically makes you a bad guy.

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    It's hard to judge without having been there... While I agree with Blackavar on some level, you just never know. He might have been a big 10 year old and a pipe is a pipe if it connects with your jaw if he gets a lucky shot.

  6. #6
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    It was justified.

    I would've pulled some Jackie Chan moves!

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    Do what the officer says or get tazed. Simple concept!
    LIVING TO LAUGH


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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackavar View Post
    I'm sorry, but if a deputy sheriff can not control a 10 year old boy physically (pipe or not) he needs to find another job. I don't think tasing the boy is all that bad. I am a HUGE proponent of Tasers. But, tasing a 10 year old because you can't arrest him otherwise?
    Ummm I am sure he probably could have physically controlled him... while doing so he probably could have pulled the boys arm out of joint or injured him...

    In the article it states the boy was not injured...

    Can you think of a better safer way for both officer and suspect to effect this arrest?

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    So he tased the kid...big deal. I would've done it too.

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    DAL
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    Many 10-year-olds are taller and heavier than the average adult woman. The boy already was being destructive. It also sounded as if the deputy lacked room to maneuver. Sounds to me like hands-on would have risked injury to both the deputy and the boy.
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackavar View Post
    My point exactly, if the deputy lacked room to maneuver so did the boy. Yes, I am Monday morning quarterbacking.
    From the description of where the kid cornered himself, it sounds like he could have swung the pipe up and down, like an axe. I sure wouldn't want a pipe coming in contact with the top of my head, my chin, or... my soldier south of the border.

    Plus... the article makes no mention of the officer-subject factors that were present. Maybe this was a large 10y/o kid... maybe the deputy was of smaller stature. Who knows.

    Appropriate use of the Taser, IMO.

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    Eh. Then you're setting the precedent that age is the determining factor in tazering someone? I think the age of 10 shocks the senses a bit; then again, does that mean a ten year old can't hurt you? Exactly what is the age at which a youngster become old enough to harm you? For that matter, at what age does one become too elderly to harm you?


    I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

  13. #13
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    Losing it, babe. Always been there...

    I sorta see both sides of the equation. I can see a lucky strike causing an injury...life threatening?...probably not, but the taser isn't to respond to deadly force. I personally don't want to be on lightduty working with CALEA on the third floor because some brat with a pipe managed to injury me, you know? On the other hand, I've gone hands on with people and hurt them simply trying to restrain them. Just like the ten year old girl that was tased a few weeks back, I'm VERY glad I'm not in this media frenzy. Truly am glad.


    I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

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    What about a a 2" pipe, 3" pipe, 4" pipe? Kids that age play baseball and can sometimes knock a ball pretty far... who's to say they couldn't send your kneecap into the outfield? Not trying to argue, just bringing to light the other side of the coin.

    I certainly wouldn't approach a 10 year old holding a pipe...

    Hell, there was a kid running around town not long ago with a baseball bat riddled with nails, a different kid running around with a steel pipe. Kids are getting worse these days, thanks to poorer parenting.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackavar View Post
    I don't think it is a big deal that a ten year old kid was tased. I do think it is unfortunate that department has a deputy who can not effect the arrest of a 10 year old boy without the use of a taser. Our use of force continuum puts taser before hands on. I am a huge fan (and instructor) of Tasers. That being said if he was in such tight quarters that pepper spray would have been more dangerous to the officers I'm thinking the kid would have had difficulty swinging the pipe. To say that his arms could have been pulled out of a socket or something is pure conjecture. And seriously, we're talking major force to remove an arm from the socket.

    The kid is probably a ******bag with a biatch of a mom who refuses to control him. Sorry, guys...gotta stand by my statement.
    You make some good points.... our use of force scale is similar, but it also makes it very clear that it is used as a guide only and the officer will judge the appropriate level of force given the situation and does not need to escalate through the levels in order...

    Saying a specific injury is "conjecture" on my part, but I dont think you can argue that going "hands on" with a suspect puts an officer and the suspect at greater risk of an injury than sitting back and popping them with the taser... the real argument though is at what point is this beneficial ... or more important "reasonable" given the situation... I know you cant just Taser everyone you meet that may resist arrest because you dont want to get your hands dirty.... then where does it end

    Being a taser instructor you know the taser is uncomfortable and painful, but virtually harmless... I absolutely understand where you are coming from... The age is a sensitive issue, but without understanding the actual dynamics of this situation I would not say this situation was handled wrong... or should have been handled differently
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  16. #16
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    He should have met the pipe with an equal amount of force.....boy, meet ASP.

    On a serious note, its hard to say what could have been done without being there.
    "Against the machinations of your enemies you can take defense, but against the stupidity of fools, the very gods themselves fight in vain" ~ Johann C.F. Von Schiller


    "Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
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  17. #17
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    I used to think it was stupid to taser children, but if you think about it, it's not. We're a society made of lawsuits, and wrestling with a child will almost certainly hurt him in some way and he'll break something, and then the lawsuit comes. With the taser, the child gets stunned for a couple of seconds and everyone goes home (or to jail) the same way as before.

    It's just smarter to use the taser. If he didn't, the community would have been outraged that Mr Officer hurt the child and that he was a big bully. Ignoring community 'outrage' seems to be the best thing, especially since the public is an @$$.
    Last edited by LINY; 12-04-2009 at 02:06 PM.

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    DAL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackavar View Post
    My point exactly, if the deputy lacked room to maneuver so did the boy. Yes, I am Monday morning quarterbacking.
    Our use-of-force policy explicitly states that the standard is whether the officer's use of force was reasonable under the facts known or reasonably believe by him. That someone else would have concluded that a different type of force was preferable does not matter.
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackavar View Post
    I don't think it is a big deal that a ten year old kid was tased. I do think it is unfortunate that department has a deputy who can not effect the arrest of a 10 year old boy without the use of a taser.
    I may be a bit detached since it wasn't my kid, but given the circumstances, potentially harming him by wrestling him to the ground, vs tazing with no lasting effects... tazing seemed like the safer way to go.

    Of course now try to explain the difference between hurting someone and harming someone to the general public and they might look at you cross eyed.


    Quote Originally Posted by GrndPnd0311 View Post
    He should have met the pipe with an equal amount of force.....boy, meet ASP.
    If you are familiar with disarming then that would actually be a pretty good idea, however again it comes to how little space there was to maneuver again.

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    For what it's worth, the Foster dad says the child was out of control and the deputy did the right thing by tasing the kid.

    The foster father of the 10 year old boy who was tased by a Pueblo County sheriff's deputy is standing by that deputy. Daniel Biby says the deputy did a "good job," and wants the criticism to stop.


    http://www.newsfirst5.com/news/foste...ve-been-tased/

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    The brat deserved it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackavar View Post
    That being said if he was in such tight quarters that pepper spray would have been more dangerous to the officers I'm thinking the kid would have had difficulty swinging the pipe. The kid is probably a ******bag with a biatch of a mom who refuses to control him. Sorry, guys...gotta stand by my statement.
    Tase was ok. A 10 year old can swing a metal pipe or rebar over their head and down onto someone elses skull enough to cause some damage.

    I know it may sound bad but the tase was good to go. Ten year olds can be dangerous. We don't get paid to get hurt for a kid commiting a felony and continuing to cause problems. Thats like saying they should have waited until he was tired and took a nap.
    The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

  23. #23
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    With a piece of pipe, he could have easily taken out any cop that failed to act. Everyone is assuming the pipe will stay in the kid's hands.
    I learned to throw an axe, overhand style, way before I was 10.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by OperatorEX View Post
    They expect us to get hit by the two foot pipe while wearing pink gloves. And then while our heads are split open we coddle the brat into hugs and then feed him applesauce with the community silverspoon. Oh and if we could not go home to our loved ones at the end of shift, they'd appreciate that too.
    Oh! I thought they were unhappy that the deputy did not shoot the kid. A pipe is a deadly weapon, after all.
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
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    Didn't the same thing happen last week, except the mom was the one happy and the dad was the one ******ed off somewhere else?

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