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  1. #1
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    Speed Limits vs Flow of Traffic

    If the speed limit is 45mph but traffic usually flows at 55mph and you pull up behind me, will u prefer I stay at the flow of traffic or slow down to the speed limit? if I stayed @ flow of traffic, you could turn on ur lights... if I slowed down, we will then bottle neck traffic behind us....

    EDITED: This is on a 2 lane road, there is no moving over to let you by.
    Last edited by cccatch; 01-20-2009 at 10:18 AM.

  2. #2
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    My opinion, if you slow down then I'm going to try to find a way around you. People who drive 35mph as soon as they see me tend to irritate me. Also consider that I've never written a speeding ticket unless there was a collision involved, and I consider speeding tickets and radar to be Chicken Poo.

    I WORK IN AN AREA where I can find warrants, suspended licenses, methamphetamine, and degenerates all day long. I gotta ask myself where my efforts are best applied.

    I LIVE IN AN AREA where I'll get written a ticket for driving 55 in a 45.


    So the answer is it depends:

    *On the officer's personal beliefs
    *On whether the officer is going to an existing call for service, or simply "hunting"
    *On the area


    My advice is to NOT be the biggest ******bag in a given area at a given time.

    Why pull over a soccer mom in a minivan, driving 55 in a 45, when I'll get a
    *suspended license
    *a passenger with a warrant
    *and dope out of this:
    http://www.calgarystreetrides.ca/ima...310/nasty1.jpg

  3. #3
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    If I'm already directly behind you, I've already made the decision to stop you or not. Slowing down now isn't going to help you.

  4. #4
    Waingro...where is he?
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    i just prefer you to move out of my way.
    Perseverate In Pugna

  5. #5
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    10 + over the limit, you see me and don't slow down! That indicates to me that you not only do not respect the laws of the land, you don't respect the fact that there is a police officer on your tail. Guess what, bottle neck me. I'm not in a hurry to get anywhere in particular in a 12 hour shift. If I was, I'd be running code. YEP, you're getting a ticket.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narco View Post
    i just prefer you to move out of my way.
    +1

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcusindc View Post
    +1
    +1

    The ones that swiftly get pulled over are the ones who pass me by going a couple miles an hour over the speed limit. If you see a cop and dont look at the speedomoter to see how fast you're going, and then pass said cop, who is going the speed limit, then you arent paying much attention. I have never issued a speeding ticket for it, just pointed out their lack of cognitive skills.

  8. #8
    Planes suck!
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    I like to create the bottleneck! No better payback than to have thirty cars trailing.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cccatch View Post
    If the speed limit is 45mph but traffic usually flows at 55mph and you pull up behind me, will u prefer I stay at the flow of traffic or slow down to the speed limit? if I stayed @ flow of traffic, you could turn on ur lights... if I slowed down, we will then bottle neck traffic behind us....
    In CA, we have the "Basic Speed Law" and the above, as you have described it, 55 MPH in a 45 MPH zone, may not be in violation; however, your slowing down, because I am behind you, and driving at less than the normal flow of traffic is now a violation of "Impeding Traffic" and I would stop you and issue a ticket!!!

    Basic Speed Law

    22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

    Amended Ch. 252, Stats. 1963. Effective September 20, 1963.
    Slow-Moving Vehicles

    21654. (a) Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, any vehicle proceeding upon a highway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

    (b) If a vehicle is being driven at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time, and is not being driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, it shall constitute prima facie evidence that the driver is operating the vehicle in violation of subdivision (a) of this section.

    (c) The Department of Transportation, with respect to state highways, and local authorities, with respect to highways under their jurisdiction, may place and maintain upon highways official signs directing slow-moving traffic to use the right-hand traffic lane except when overtaking and passing another vehicle or preparing for a left turn.

    Amended Ch. 545, Stats. 1974. Effective January 1, 1975.
    Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

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  10. #10
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    I think Daisycutter gave you good advice. It depends on where you are driving- and may even depend on the time of day.

    All I can speak to is the area where I work. Here, the speed limit is the speed limit. There is no "flow of traffic" exception.
    Last edited by KAA951; 01-16-2009 at 09:06 PM.
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  11. #11
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by cccatch View Post
    If the speed limit is 45mph but traffic usually flows at 55mph and you pull up behind me, will u prefer I stay at the flow of traffic or slow down to the speed limit? if I stayed @ flow of traffic, you could turn on ur lights... if I slowed down, we will then bottle neck traffic behind us....
    Well, yeah ... ... but only the ones who want to speed.


    .
    "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

    "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

    >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

    Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by STATECOPPER View Post
    +1

    The ones that swiftly get pulled over are the ones who pass me by going a couple miles an hour over the speed limit.
    In all fairness, under-inflated tires can result in a spedometer being a few miles off. If the person creeps past you at 2-3 miles over, they might very well think they are doing the speed limit and you are just one of those guys who likes to go UNDER the speed limit to see how people react. Not saying you are one of those, but I've seen officers before that I know (from pacing my calibrated speedometer in my unmarked car) have their cruse control set 3-5 miles UNDER the speed limit, and sometimes park themselves in the fast lane. It just creates more problems than it solves.

    I had a marked unit once that kept switching lanes and maneuvering through traffic on the interstate (2 lanes going in my direction) in such a way that it made it impossible for anyone to pass him. The vehicles immediately around him were obviously too scared to speed up, and I was actively trying to get around him because he was doing about 6 under the speed limit on the interstate (kept a safe legal distance, but I changed lanes several times when I had a passing opportunity, only to have him switch lanes in front of me to block me). Finally I had to call his dispatcher. I would assume they called him and told him the deal, because he finally just pulled to the other lane and let me past. Sadly, he moved right back after I got by.
    Last edited by GatorPD; 01-17-2009 at 12:49 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narco View Post
    i just prefer you to move out of my way.
    Ditto

  14. #14
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    I don't now, nor have I ever understood the thoughts of those who just don't like to be passed. "Get over it" I say, "the first man through here who won wasa the inspector who OK'd opening this road."
    I've talked to a few officers of my and other departments who felt they shouldn't be passed just "because" they are "police"?

    I often times patrol at 5 under. When in basic 30+ years ago we were specifically trained to patrol "at or 5 mph under the posted speed limit". Working same direction radar on the big road, I follow this rule as I poke along in the right lane using traffic as cover.

    I want the law abiding to pass me and get the hell out of the way of that scofflaw way back there racing up here to catch me.
    "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

    "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

    >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

    Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

  15. #15
    Salty Dog

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    If I'm on the freeway, I'm on my way to a call. Around here, deputies don't patrol the freeways looking for traffic violations (hopefully it is that way everywhere - leave speeders to the highway patrol, and stay in your beat).
    Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

    I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

  16. #16
    Lather it like its stolen
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    Quote Originally Posted by GatorPD View Post
    In all fairness, under-inflated tires can result in a spedometer being a few miles off. If the person creeps past you at 2-3 miles over, they might very well think they are doing the speed limit and you are just one of those guys who likes to go UNDER the speed limit to see how people react. Not saying you are one of those, but I've seen officers before that I know (from pacing my calibrated speedometer in my unmarked car) have their cruse control set 3-5 miles UNDER the speed limit, and sometimes park themselves in the fast lane. It just creates more problems than it solves.

    I had a marked unit once that kept switching lanes and maneuvering through traffic on the interstate (2 lanes going in my direction) in such a way that it made it impossible for anyone to pass him. The vehicles immediately around him were obviously too scared to speed up, and I was actively trying to get around him because he was doing about 6 under the speed limit on the interstate (kept a safe legal distance, but I changed lanes several times when I had a passing opportunity, only to have him switch lanes in front of me to block me). Finally I had to call his dispatcher. I would assume they called him and told him the deal, because he finally just pulled to the other lane and let me past. Sadly, he moved right back after I got by.
    Jesus christ, the games we play. Is it reeeeally that serious? An officer pulling someone over for 2-3 miles over the speed limit imo has nothing to do. Im with Narco, just move outta the way.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtCHP View Post
    In CA, we have the "Basic Speed Law" and the above, as you have described it, 55 MPH in a 45 MPH zone, may not be in violation; however, your slowing down, because I am behind you, and driving at less than the normal flow of traffic is now a violation of "Impeding Traffic" and I would stop you and issue a ticket!!!
    Clarification: You'd ticket a car for impeding traffic because it was going at the speed limit instead speeding like everyone else? Or would you just ticket a car that drives at *less* than the speed limit?

    If you'd ticket someone driving at the speed limit, then what about 2mph over? You could technically give that person tickets for speeding *and* impeding traffic.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SgtCHP
    In CA, we have the "Basic Speed Law" and the above, as you have described it, 55 MPH in a 45 MPH zone, may not be in violation; however, your slowing down, because I am behind you, and driving at less than the normal flow of traffic is now a violation of "Impeding Traffic" and I would stop you and issue a ticket!!!
    I went back and read the whole post with the laws, and I have to say ... that's crazy.

    I don't believe for a minute that
    1) a LEO would write it .... or
    2) that a judge would convict .... given those circumstance.

    No way you can on one hand say the maximum allowable speed under law is 45 (a posted speed limit) and at the same time say that a person running said 45 mph is somehow impeding the normal flow of traffic of 55 mph because 55 mph not then a legal speed, none of that traffic running or wanting to run 55 has a reasonable expectation of a clear road ahead when the posted limit is 45 mph.

    Addendum 01-23-09:

    OK, appologies ... I believe it now .... but it still makes no sense to me.
    Last edited by t150vsuptpr; 01-23-2009 at 11:42 AM.
    "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

    "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

    >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

    Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

  19. #19
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    Here's an idea for you, 1. just get out of the way and don't pull back into the lane after I have passed you, that's just stupid 2. try using the proper lane instead of congesting traffic 3. If your speeding then there's a good chance your going to get stopped 4. how about using some common sense.

  20. #20
    Salty Dog

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    Straight from the California Vehicle Code:

    Yielding for Passing
    21753. Except when passing on the right is permitted, the driver of an overtaken vehicle shall safely move to the right-hand side of the highway in favor of the overtaking vehicle after an audible signal or a momentary flash of headlights by the overtaking vehicle, and shall not increase the speed of his or her vehicle until completely passed by the overtaking vehicle. This section does not require the driver of an overtaken vehicle to drive on the shoulder of the highway in order to allow the overtaking vehicle to pass.

    Minimum Speed Law
    22400. (a) No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law.

    No person shall bring a vehicle to a complete stop upon a highway so as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic unless the stop is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law.

    (b) Whenever the Department of Transportation determines on the basis of an engineering and traffic survey that slow speeds on any part of a state highway consistently impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, the department may determine and declare a minimum speed limit below which no person shall drive a vehicle, except when necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law, when appropriate signs giving notice thereof are erected along the part of the highway for which a minimum speed limit is established.

    Subdivision (b) of this section shall apply only to vehicles subject to registration.
    -------------
    So, yes, we absolutly can cite someone who is driving at the speed limit for obstructing traffic, and the judge will find him guilty. Even if he tries to invoke the "in compliance with the law" clause, 21753 requires him to yield to someone who wants to pass. Short answer is, in California, stay out of the way of faster traffic. If you don't like it, don't drive here.
    Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

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  21. #21
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    This is a touchy question, it all depends on how that officer thinks. If it's a traffic officer...guess what, high chance of getting ticket... An officer who thinks it's all about dope no big deal.

    I enjoy chasing traffic violators. The real problem is a lot of motorist think they are going with the flow of traffic, all of the lane changes, braking hard, stomping on the gas pedal cutting into other lanes are not a clue to the fact that the flo is not the speed they are trying to go. Those are the motorist I'm looking for.

    Example, the flo of the freeway (in S. Ca) can be 75 mph and most officers don't care. Now get the flo of same freeway at 65 mph and you've got that motorist trying to go 75 mph...and I see it, guess what...ticket will follow.

    Just do the posted speed limit and you'll have no worries... go with the flow and you'll be looking over your shoulder... your call.
    And yes I'm a Ca deputy that works the freeways...

  22. #22
    I work for peanuts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narco View Post
    i just prefer you to move out of my way.
    x2

    Odds are, I'm trying to get to another motorist for a traffic stop or I'm trying to get to a call. Get out of the way and you'll drive along to speed another day.

  23. #23
    Retired Sergeant - CHP
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnG View Post
    Clarification: You'd ticket a car for impeding traffic because it was going at the speed limit instead speeding like everyone else? Or would you just ticket a car that drives at *less* than the speed limit?

    If you'd ticket someone driving at the speed limit, then what about 2mph over? You could technically give that person tickets for speeding *and* impeding traffic.
    Which question do you want me to answer?
    Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

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  24. #24
    Retired Sergeant - CHP
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    Quote Originally Posted by t150vsuptpr View Post
    I went back and read the whole post with the laws, and I have to say ... that's crazy.

    I don't believe for a minute that
    1) a LEO would write it .... or
    2) that a judge would convict .... given those circumstance.

    No way you can on one hand say the maximum allowable speed under law is 45 (a posted speed limit) and at the same time say that a person running said 45 mph is somehow impeding the normal flow of traffic of 55 mph because 55 mph not then a legal speed, none of that traffic running or wanting to run 55 has a reasonable expectation of a clear road ahead when the posted limit is 45 mph.
    In CA, the maximum speed limits are 55 MPH for trucks with three or more axles and combinations of vehicles. 65/70 for all others depending upon the highway design.

    As given above, the 45 MPH is a posted speed limit. It falls under the category of the section I posted - 22350 VC: Basic Speed Law - which says that, although the posted speed limit is 45, you can legally drive up to, but not exceed, the maximum speed limit (65/70) if conditions are optimum - traffic flow, pedestrians, weather, road condition, etc.

    Now, if the normal flow of traffic within a 45 MPH zone is 55, then traffic may legally drive at that speed. Anyone who is driving at less than the normal flow - in this example 45 MPH - and is impeding the normal flow of traffic - 55 MPH - they must move to the right or they are subject to a ticket for impeding traffic.

    You must not confuse the Basic Speed Law with the Maximum Speed Law.

    Now, the question is: Would I, or any other officer in CA, write someone for impeding traffic in the above manner. I would not! I might stop them and warn them not to impede the normal flow and suggest they drive in a lane to the right, but I would not write them a ticket under normal circumstances. There are officers who will write the ticket. If the offense is committed on a Freeway or Interstate highway, where the speed limit is 65 and the offender is driving in the left lane at a lesser speed, I will ticket the driver for impeding traffic.
    Last edited by SgtCHP; 01-20-2009 at 08:44 AM.
    Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

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  25. #25
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    UPDATE - Forgot to add in this crucial fact: This is on a 2 lane road, there is no moving over to let you by.

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