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  1. #1
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    Fellow Officers Need Your Help

    Fellow Officers,

    Four former Mt. San Jacinto College, California Police Officers need your help. Four former Officers and one civilian employee have accussed the Police Chief or serious misconduct and unethical acts. Instead of being praised for their ethical and moral standards the Officers were all fired. The Police Chief has been accussed of criminal acts and is still employed while the Officers are all unemployed. We are asking for assistance from our fellow Officers in letting the College administarion know this type of behavior to honest law enforcement officers will not be tolerated and should be brought to light. We have created a website to outline the details of the claims, there is no advertising on this web site. It is strictly an information gathering site. You can view all the allegations and several newspaper articles regarding the case.

    If the College administrators hear from enough law enforcement officers they may finally get it and realize the error of their ways. Please view the site, read the information and if you feel so compelled contact the college administration to let them know the treatment of the four officers is outrageous. The email addresses and contact numbers are on the site.

    We thank you in advance for your time and any assistance you may render.

    www.msjcpdlawsuit.com
    Last edited by MSJCPD; 01-12-2009 at 11:38 AM.

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    Sex, Lies, and ice cream?

    Wow, I followed the link and read the lawsuit--what a mess.

    That department sounds like a Showtime Original Movie--and why do almost all police lawsuits involve sexual misdeeds?
    The Blog: Slam Dunks

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    Well the three B'S will always get ya.

    But its just not the sex stuff. Its the systematic cover up by the Police Chief and the Corporal to get rid of the honest Officers. This is a true story, we would not be brazen enough to post a website, file a lawsuit and put our names out there if it wasnt. I know its really hard to believe these things occurred, but they did.

    The Chief did steal those items and he is still working!


    Quote Originally Posted by slamdunk View Post
    Wow, I followed the link and read the lawsuit--what a mess.

    That department sounds like a Showtime Original Movie--and why do almost all police lawsuits involve sexual misdeeds?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slamdunk View Post
    and why do almost all lawsuits involve sexual misdeeds?
    Fixed for me.

  5. #5
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    Not sure what you mean by fixed?



    Quote Originally Posted by Brendon View Post
    Fixed for me.

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    Wow, thats crazy stuff. I thought this kind of thing couldnt happen anymore. Good for you guys for sticking up for yourselfs! Good Luck to you guys.....



    Quote Originally Posted by MSJCPD View Post
    Fellow Officers,

    Four former Mt. San Jacinto College, California Police Officers need your help. Four former Officers and one civilian employee have accussed the Police Chief or serious misconduct and unethical acts. Instead of being praised for their ethical and moral standards the Officers were all fired. The Police Chief has been accussed of criminal acts and is still employed while the Officers are all unemployed. We are asking for assistance from our fellow Officers in letting the College administarion know this type of behavior to honest law enforcement officers will not be tolerated and should be brought to light. We have created a website to outline the details of the claims, there is no advertising on this web site. It is strictly an information gathering site. You can view all the allegations and several newspaper articles regarding the case.

    If the College administrators hear from enough law enforcement officers they may finally get it and realize the error of their ways. Please view the site, read the information and if you feel so compelled contact the college administration to let them know the treatment of the four officers is outrageous. The email addresses and contact numbers are on the site.

    We thank you in advance for your time and any assistance you may render.

    www.msjcpdlawsuit.com

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    Yikes is right. Thats some amazing stuff going on out west. Crazy Californians, why would a Police Chief steal something so minor?

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    Jeebus, what a mess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smurfette
    Lord have mercy. You're about as slick as the business side of duct tape.
    Quote Originally Posted by DAL
    You are without doubt a void surrounded by a sphincter muscle.

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    I just read this more in depth. I know its no laughing matter but a police chief stealing ice cream and handing it out to his neighbors! That could only happen in California! I am new to the field (dont start the academy until March 2) but there seems like a whole bunch of crimes the Chief committed. How do you get a chief out of office?

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    Thank you for taking the time to view the site and the complaint. I assure you there is much more we simply cannot make public yet. The time will come and all will be made public.


    Quote Originally Posted by FJcop View Post
    i read most of the complaint....amazing stuff.

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    Thats the tricky part, all the employees were on probation. The California School Employees has been very supportive though and they are working with us very closely. They have been calling for the Police Chief to be placed on leave at the very least. Amazingly, this has not happened. The entrenched guard at MSJC are protecting one of their own.


    Quote Originally Posted by ten08 View Post
    What does your UNION say?

  12. #12
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    Not necessarily, not in California. There are protections in place for abuse. If you read the complaint you can clearly see the officers were terminated for reporting misconduct and were threatend with termination for months. You cannot fire whistleblowers


    Quote Originally Posted by Biggy Smallz View Post
    Can't any employee who is on a probationary period be terminated with or without just cause?

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    No problem, thanks for reading. They are all true. When the rest of the details can be made public more pieces fit into place. We have been told not to disclose this information just yet.



    Quote Originally Posted by Biggy Smallz View Post
    I read the complaints and if all are true, then the situation sucks for the officers involved. Just curious.

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    Another Point of View

    I have read the webpage in question and I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but I have to take issue with the webpage itself.

    First off, these disputes are clearly legal in nature. A lawsuit has been filed and the appropriate venue for trying this case, examining the evidence and deciding the facts is in a court of law. Nonetheless, the website attempts to try the matter in the court of public opinion and pressure the college into settling through extrajudicial means. This smells of desperation and sour grapes on the part of the plaintiffs.

    The website makes numerous allegations of misconduct against members of the department and then encourages the public to phone the president of the college and demand a response. This is in spite of the fact that the Peace Officer Bill of Rights and Section 832.7 of the Penal Code specifically prohibits the college from responding. This deliberately misleads the public into believing the college is stonewalling when by law, they are prohibited from commenting on personnel matters. Again, this smells of desperation and someone who does not want to play by the rules.

    The website alleges theft of evidence (ice cream) from an illegal alien who was arrested for vending that ice cream, but who was then deported. We used to arrest illegal alien ice cream vendors periodically. Because most law enforcement agencies have no cold storage evidence facilities to keep ice cream (my agency included) they routinely photograph it as evidence and then throw it out.. Vendor's families usually won't come down to claim it because they are illegals as well and are afraid of being deported, so it goes in the trash. The ice cream we had was usually of questionable origin (not a recognizable brand and in ratty, poorly printed wrappers) so we wouldn't even donate it to skid row kitchens. If anyone was dumb enough to take it and eat it, we could care less and it certainly was not regarded as theft. Finally, if the suspect was deported, there would be no trial for vending in the first place, so the issue of "evidence" is moot but again, photographs alone of the merchandise would suffice..

    I also have to take issue with the website making public numerous allegations of misconduct against various members of the police department along with information from their performance evaluations. Again, Section 832.7 of the Penal Code prohibits members of a law enforcement agency from making such information public. If it were determined that the source of the website allegations is in fact a member of the department, it could serve as a bar to disciplinary action against the accused officers, not to mention grounds for civil action against both the department and the officer/s who leaked the information.

    The website also implies that the appointment of the current Chief of Police was inappropriate, but it only speaks in vague generalities and fails to fails to explain exactly what the proper appointment procedures is and how it was violated.

    There are many other issues there that on a closer look, leave out way too much information to make an informed decision.

    You may have a valid case, but the way your webpage is written makes you sound like a vindictive whiner who is not satisfied to resolve his case in the proper venue, and who wants to take as many people down as he can through innuendo and half truths. If you are one of the plaintiffs, I think you just shot yourself in the foot as you have put into print things that you cannot take back. When your civil case comes to trial, the college's attorney will rake you over the coals for it on the stand and any attempt to clarify things will only make you look like a liar. In short, I think you just scr*w*d yourself.

    I've got to admit, I am shocked you would do this. When you filed a civil suit, you drew a line in the sand. This is now a matter between the attorneys and the courts. You don't talk about your case publicly anymore because anything you say can harm you and help the other side. Anything that needs to be said should come from your attorney. Playing the internet/court of public opinion card is usually the act of a desperate plaintiff who knows they have a losing case, or someone who is determined to play by their own rules no matter what.
    Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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    You only have to be concerned about putting it in print if its not true. There is nothing unethical or illegal about speaking the truth and it is in fact all true.



    Quote Originally Posted by L-1 View Post
    I have read the webpage in question and I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but I have to take issue with the webpage itself.

    First off, these disputes are clearly legal in nature. A lawsuit has been filed and the appropriate venue for trying this case, examining the evidence and deciding the facts is in a court of law. Nonetheless, the website attempts to try the matter in the court of public opinion and pressure the college into settling through extrajudicial means. This smells of desperation and sour grapes on the part of the plaintiffs.

    The website makes numerous allegations of misconduct against members of the department and then encourages the public to phone the president of the college and demand a response. This is in spite of the fact that the Peace Officer Bill of Rights and Section 832.7 of the Penal Code specifically prohibits the college from responding. This deliberately misleads the public into believing the college is stonewalling when by law, they are prohibited from commenting on personnel matters. Again, this smells of desperation and someone who does not want to play by the rules.

    The website alleges theft of evidence (ice cream) from an illegal alien who was arrested for vending that ice cream, but who was then deported. We used to arrest illegal alien ice cream vendors periodically. Because most law enforcement agencies have no cold storage evidence facilities to keep ice cream (my agency included) they routinely photograph it as evidence and then throw it out.. Vendor's families usually won't come down to claim it because they are illegals as well and are afraid of being deported, so it goes in the trash. The ice cream we had was usually of questionable origin (not a recognizable brand and in ratty, poorly printed wrappers) so we wouldn't even donate it to skid row kitchens. If anyone was dumb enough to take it and eat it, we could care less and it certainly was not regarded as theft. Finally, if the suspect was deported, there would be no trial for vending in the first place, so the issue of "evidence" is moot but again, photographs alone of the merchandise would suffice..

    I also have to take issue with the website making public numerous allegations of misconduct against various members of the police department along with information from their performance evaluations. Again, Section 832.7 of the Penal Code prohibits members of a law enforcement agency from making such information public. If it were determined that the source of the website allegations is in fact a member of the department, it could serve as a bar to disciplinary action against the accused officers, not to mention grounds for civil action against both the department and the officer/s who leaked the information.

    The website also implies that the appointment of the current Chief of Police was inappropriate, but it only speaks in vague generalities and fails to fails to explain exactly what the proper appointment procedures is and how it was violated.

    There are many other issues there that on a closer look, leave out way too much information to make an informed decision.

    You may have a valid case, but the way your webpage is written makes you sound like a vindictive whiner who is not satisfied to resolve his case in the proper venue, and who wants to take as many people down as he can through innuendo and half truths. If you are one of the plaintiffs, I think you just shot yourself in the foot as you have put into print things that you cannot take back. When your civil case comes to trial, the college's attorney will rake you over the coals for it on the stand and any attempt to clarify things will only make you look like a liar. In short, I think you just scr*w*d yourself.

    I've got to admit, I am shocked you would do this. When you filed a civil suit, you drew a line in the sand. This is now a matter between the attorneys and the courts. You don't talk about your case publicly anymore because anything you say can harm you and help the other side. Anything that needs to be said should come from your attorney. Playing the internet/court of public opinion card is usually the act of a desperate plaintiff who knows they have a losing case, or someone who is determined to play by their own rules no matter what.

  16. #16
    L-1
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSJCPD View Post
    You only have to be concerned about putting it in print if its not true. There is nothing unethical or illegal about speaking the truth and it is in fact all true.
    Gosh, not even a burglar could have said that better.

    I am going to assume from your profile that you are, or were a member of the law enforcement agency in question and that your obtained the information published on your website regarding personnel complaints against, and performance evaluations of the defendants in this suit, during the course of your official duties. Section 832.7 of the Penal Code makes information pertaining to personnel complaints and performance evaluations confidential as a matter of law, unless release is authorized pursuant to a court order, also known as a Pitchess Motion. Prior to publishing this information, did you obtain a court order authorizing its release? If not, does the "truth of that information" serve as a valid basis for breaking the law and releasing that confidential information as you suggest? How is that ethical and legal? Enlighten me.
    Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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    832.7. (a) Peace officer or custodial officer personnel records and
    records maintained by any state or local agency pursuant to Section
    832.5, or information obtained from these records, are confidential
    and shall not be disclosed in any criminal or civil proceeding except
    by discovery pursuant to Sections 1043 and 1046 of the Evidence

    Code. This section shall not apply to investigations or proceedings
    concerning the conduct of peace officers or custodial officers, or an
    agency or department that employs those officers, conducted by a
    grand jury, a district attorney's office, or the Attorney General's
    office


    This forum is not a criminal or civil proceeding nor is the website. The lawsuit is a series of statements from involved parties and when the time comes to be in a legal forum the proper discovery will be conducted. I think the lawyer qith 24 years experience in public employment law has an idea what he is doing. Did you go to law school by chance? Have you specialized in government tort claims for over 20 years?

    There is a little thing called the first amendment. If it is the truth it is not slander libelous.

    I see from your last comment you dont exactly walk an ethical line. No officer, ever, should keep property taken from an arrestee. The evidence (ice cream) should have been photographed and thrown in the trash. The ice cream cart was FULL of very good quaility ice cream. The area the subject was arrested in is upper middle class, not downtown L.A. So for you to insinuate the taking of the property was okay tells me you dont exactly know what ethics are. Just to remind you of what grand theft is, I inserted the section in case you forgot.

    Thank you for taking the time to read our site! We do appreciate all comments!

    487. Grand theft is theft committed in any of the following cases:

    (a) When the money, labor, or real or personal property taken is
    of a value exceeding four hundred dollars ($400), except as provided
    in subdivision (b).
    (b) Notwithstanding subdivision (a), grand theft is committed in
    any of the following cases:
    (1) (A) When domestic fowls, avocados, olives, citrus or deciduous
    fruits, other fruits, vegetables, nuts, artichokes, or other farm
    crops are taken of a value exceeding one hundred dollars ($100).
    (B) For the purposes of establishing that the value of avocados or
    citrus fruit under this paragraph exceeds one hundred dollars
    ($100), that value may be shown by the presentation of credible
    evidence which establishes that on the day of the theft avocados or
    citrus fruit of the same variety and weight exceeded one hundred
    dollars ($100) in wholesale value.
    (2) When fish, shellfish, mollusks, crustaceans, kelp, algae, or
    other aquacultural products are taken from a commercial or research
    operation which is producing that product, of a value exceeding one
    hundred dollars ($100).
    (3) Where the money, labor, or real or personal property is taken
    by a servant, agent, or employee from his or her principal or
    employer and aggregates four hundred dollars ($400) or more in any 12
    consecutive month period.
    (c) When the property is taken from the person of another.
    (d) When the property taken is any of the following:
    (1) An automobile, horse, mare, gelding, any bovine animal, any
    caprine animal, mule, jack, jenny, sheep, lamb, hog, sow, boar, gilt,
    barrow, or pig.
    (2) A firearm.
    (e) This section shall become operative on January 1, 1997.




    Quote Originally Posted by L-1 View Post
    Gosh, not even a burglar could have said that better.

    I am going to assume from your profile that you are, or were a member of the law enforcement agency in question and that your obtained the information published on your website regarding personnel complaints against, and performance evaluations of the defendants in this suit, during the course of your official duties. Section 832.7 of the Penal Code makes information pertaining to personnel complaints and performance evaluations confidential as a matter of law, unless release is authorized pursuant to a court order, also known as a Pitchess Motion. Prior to publishing this information, did you obtain a court order authorizing its release? If not, does the "truth of that information" serve as a valid basis for breaking the law and releasing that confidential information as you suggest? How is that ethical and legal? Enlighten me.

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    This thread makes my brain hurt.

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    The website is even more painful, as it is all true.



    Quote Originally Posted by marcusindc View Post
    This thread makes my brain hurt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSJCPD View Post
    This forum is not a criminal or civil proceeding nor is the website. The lawsuit is a series of statements from involved parties and when the time comes to be in a legal forum the proper discovery will be conducted. I think the lawyer qith 24 years experience in public employment law has an idea what he is doing. Did you go to law school by chance? Have you specialized in government tort claims for over 20 years?
    You might also take a look at 6254(c) of the Giovernment Code (The Public Records Act). It prohibits making personnel records public as an unwarranted invasion of privacy,

    Quote Originally Posted by MSJCPD View Post
    I see from your last comment you dont exactly walk an ethical line. No officer, ever, should keep property taken from an arrestee. The evidence (ice cream) should have been photographed and thrown in the trash.
    I'm not sure what you mean. We threw our icre cream in the trash as well and none of us took any. But once there, it was considered abandoned and if some civilian came by and took it, we could have cared less and would not have arrested them for theft because it was now abandoned trash. I'm just curious. If you had thrown your ice cream in the trash would you have posted an officer to watch over it until all of it melted beyond edibility, to prevent passers by from taking any?

    What does your department procedure dictate on handling perishable evidence? Was that procedure followed?

    What does case law say about how perishable evidence must be disposed of? Was it followed?

    Have you presented this matter to the District Attorney's Public Integrity Unit for prosecution? If not, why not? If you have, why has he not filed on it yet?

    Again, you may have a great case. But the way you present things, it still sounds like you are making a lot of wild charges without having done your homework and are just slinging mud.
    Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

  21. #21
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    Googled Chief Segawa, LOTS of reading there, have to agree with L1. I refuse to take sides in an Ex Parte discussion when the proper forum is being used.
    "a band is blowing Dixie double four time You feel alright when you hear the music ring"


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    The government code section you stated applies only to the employing agency.

    I would agree with you 100% on disposing the ice cream in a trash bin and whoever takes it so be it. However, under no circumstances, is it proper for a law enforcement officer to take property from an arrestee and use it for their own personal gain. The ice cream was placed in his own personal freezer and handed out to neighbors!

    You never answered my question. Are you a lawyer? Do you possess over 20 years of government tort claim experience?

    It would be improper for me to comment on any potential ongoing criminal investigations.




    Quote Originally Posted by L-1 View Post
    You might also take a look at 6254(c) of the Giovernment Code (The Public Records Act). It prohibits making personnel records public as an unwarranted invasion of privacy,



    I'm not sure what you mean. We threw our icre cream in the trash as well and none of us took any. But once there, it was considered abandoned and if some civilian came by and took it, we could have cared less and would not have arrested them for theft because it was now abandoned trash. I'm just curious. If you had thrown your ice cream in the trash would you have posted an officer to watch over it until all of it melted beyond edibility, to prevent passers by from taking any?

    What does your department procedure dictate on handling perishable evidence? Was that procedure followed?

    What does case law say about how perishable evidence must be disposed of? Was it followed?

    Have you presented this matter to the District Attorney's Public Integrity Unit for prosecution? If not, why not? If you have, why has he not filed on it yet?

    Again, you may have a great case. But the way you present things, it still sounds like you are making a lot of wild charges without having done your homework and are just slinging mud.
    Last edited by MSJCPD; 01-13-2009 at 05:05 PM. Reason: Typo

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    The government code section you stated applies only to the employing agency.

    I would agree with you 100% on disposing the ice cream in a trash bin and whoever takes it so be it. However, under no circumstances, is it proper for a law enforcement officer to take property from an arrestee and use it for their own personal gain. The ice cream was placed in his own personal freezer and handed out to neighbors!

    You never answered my question. Are you a lawyer? Do you possess over 20 years of government tort claim experience?


    I thought you were looking for support. Instead you argue

    It would not be improper for me to comment on any potential ongoing criminal investigations.


    Would this be a typo? If not, you just showed your hand.
    "a band is blowing Dixie double four time You feel alright when you hear the music ring"


    The real deal

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    It was a typo, sorry doing six things at once. How is it arguing by simply rebutting? Is it wrong to state my positon? All of the things I am posting are coming from a very experienced attorney. Not personal interpretation of the California code. I respect his opinion and should have the opportunity to reply. Which has been done respectfully. Has it not?



    Quote Originally Posted by RoadKingTrooper View Post

    I thought you were looking for support. Instead you argue



    Would this be a typo? If not, you just showed your hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSJCPD View Post
    The government code section you stated applies only to the employing agency.
    And did you obtain that information during the course of your official duties? The fact that you are releasing it now in your capacity as an individual does not excuse your breech of trust.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSJCPD View Post
    You never answered my question. Are you a lawyer? Do you possess over 20 years of government tort claim experience?.
    I find it interesting that you have posted only that limited information which suits your needs and left the rest out. You have made a number of serious allegations with little substantiation, or with facts that can be interpreted many different ways. When asked for substantiation or clarification you refuse to answer and try to divert attention from these discrepancies by questioning my qualifications and hiding behind statements like:

    Quote Originally Posted by MSJCPD View Post
    It would not be improper for me to comment on any potential ongoing criminal investigations.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSJCPD View Post
    I assure you there is much more we simply cannot make public yet. The time will come and all will be made public.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSJCPD View Post
    They are all true. When the rest of the details can be made public more pieces fit into place. We have been told not to disclose this information just yet.
    This is what most crooks do when they've been caught - they panic, bluff, bluster and challenge whoever asks them questions. Why is is that you can only make half the facts known and not explain that which doesn't make sense, or which can be interpreted many different ways? Why is is that you instead feel it necessary to attack those who suggest that the Emperor has no clothes?

    Again, I don't know if you have a valid case or not, but the way you keep dancing around things here suggests all talk and no substance.

    Best of luck and let me know what you find when you reach El Toboso.
    Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

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