Cop Shoots Unarmed Man?

[scratched13]

Authorities have been under immense pressure to take action in the case. On Tuesday, BART board President Thomas Blalock and board Director Carole Ward Allen sent a letter to Orloff, urging the district attorney to move expeditiously to complete the investigation and file charges if warranted.

Some Oakland community leaders and civil rights activists said the case is symbolic of larger problems with police officers using excessive force on young black men. Grant was black and Mehserle is white.

Grant's family has filed a $25 million legal claim against BART, signaling an intention to sue for damages. The family's attorney, John Burris, said late Tuesday that he was pleased to hear of Mehserle's arrest.

"If it's true, the family is delighted, and it will really help with the healing process," Burris said.

"Pressure to act?????" That means screw those under you to save your political @ss.

It ALWAYS has to be a racism issue?!?!?!?! How about if crooks start obeying the law at a better percentage. THAT would help.

"If it's true, the family is delighted, and it will really help with the healing process" which includes buying a nice crib, a few hummers, escalades, and all that .....

I also loved the picture of the victim which shows him holding a baby (of sure, it is cropped out of the pic ...... a bit).

I don't see murder unless you can find a motive. I see a huge accident. Manslaughter? Reckless or severe negligence of his conduct.

[pulicords]

State Attorney General Jerry Brown has assigned a prosecutor to monitor the case, and the U.S. Department of Justice has dispatched mediators to help avert violent protests such as one in Oakland last week.

If this case goes to trial without evidence of malice, those politicians will see rioting on a scale not previously seen, when the jury hangs or a not guilty verdict is the result. Unless there's something the investigators know clearly showing the officer intentionally killed that kid (malice and specific intent are essential elements of murder), than the prosecutors are going to have an impossible burden to overcome. IMHO, if the officer gets on the stand and testifies (truthfully) that this was a tragic accident at least one juror will believe him and, "do the right thing."

The more I hear of the political pressure to charge this guy (without evidence of guilt beyond the video and rioting that resulted), the more I'm disgusted with the politicians involved. Setting up this trial and the "public" with a high level of false expectations, will only make things worse overall and are a mockery of justice. This individual officer is no more responsible for the "perception" of widespread police brutality, than he is for the sun in the sky or the moon.

[Sarkis]

Unfortunately, I think this officer's problem is going to be that he may have a brainwashed jury that has been too busy watching and believing all the stupid conspiracy films out there, and the news.

I hope he and his family are protected.

[Ronin226]

The exact charges against the office haven't been released... Murder could mean anything when coming from the medias mouth. Maybe instead of going to Nevada the officer should have left the country?

[rcpd34]

What happened to the original thread on this story??

[MidnightBlue]

What happened to the original thread on this story??

It was apparently deleted. Considering the road it was going down, I'm not surprised.

[sinned]

Lets see...we had a pretty large sized riot last week, the NAACP and the Rainbow Coalition are here this week and have been planning today’s protest for a week, they are bussing out of the area protesters to increase the turn-out, they are expecting 5K-7K today (who don't even live here and have no reason not to cause havoc and destruction) and had an estimated 500 last week but still manages to wreck parts of the city for 4 hours, and the most corrupt d0ushebag politician to ever hold office along with his entire city council have been pressuring the DA along with the states office to charge this officer despite the evidence....now less then 24 hours to go before the protest, they announce an arrest. Just a coincidence I guess.

The elected officials have been bending over backwards t try appease the racially motivated protesters (you don’t believe it, why does everyone who talks about this event HAVE to mention that a WHITE officer assassinated a BLACK citizen…but leave out that he is a career criminal and lifelong turd). I predict this officer will be tried and convicted, he will never be able to get a fair jury who will hear the facts and not the media.

Great job Mayor Dellums and staff, may you all rot in hell for your crimes against humanity.

[CHP Medic]

Its hard to get the whole story by only looking at the video, but I still think he was trying to taze him and accidentally used his gun. If thats what happened then its just a terrible mistake, not murder. In a stressful situation people make mistakes, lots of us have. Whats next, are we going to start arresting doctors who screw up and kill people? I just don't get it.

[lpstopper]

The vid's im watching on youtube covering the riots are crazy! I saw one where there where only 2 oakland officers standing by their cruiser which was surrounded by a large mob, which then attacked the car. Anyone in Cali, Is the national guard and CHP assisting?

[dbphotos]

Unbelievable! Fox News just did a story and said he was arrested in Nevada last night for murder AFTER BEING ON THE RUN FOR 12 DAYS. On the run? Not even close! Amazing how the media can butcher a story.

Any reasonable person who has seen the video couldn't agree with a murder charge, could they? At worst I would think mansalughter and until I hear the officer's side of what happened I will continue to think it was a horrible mistake.

The family's attorney is the media whore, John Burris. They've filed a $25 million suit against BART.

This isn't going to end well for law enforcement.

[sinned]

The vid's im watching on youtube covering the riots are crazy! Typical Oaklanders (is that a word?), they riot and destroy sh1t any chance they getI saw one where there where only 2 oakland officers standing by their cruiser which was surrounded by a large mob, which then attacked the car. Yep, and the guy who did the most damage told us, "At least the can fix their car, nobody can fix Oscar Grant." great logic huh?Anyone in CaliYep, and REAL close, Is the national guard and CHP assisting?Nope

All allied agencies are on stand-by as we were last Wednesday. They REALLY don't want to start something this week, we all WAY MORE than just ready. We've had a week to prepare and re-allocate staffing this time.

[Raiden]

If this case goes to trial without evidence of malice, those politicians will see rioting on a scale not previously seen, when the jury hangs or a not guilty verdict is the result. Unless there's something the investigators know clearly showing the officer intentionally killed that kid (malice and specific intent are essential elements of murder), than the prosecutors are going to have an impossible burden to overcome. IMHO, if the officer gets on the stand and testifies (truthfully) that this was a tragic accident at least one juror will believe him and, "do the right thing."

Remember Rodney King's trial? The jurors did the right thing and look at what happened to LA. It scares me what really the right thing is because no matter how this turns out, as someone pointed already, it is bad for LE if Mehserle gets acquitted and it is bad for LE if Mehserle does get convicted.

I do believe it was an accident, no one in their right mind in front of all those folks would don the hat of Sgt. Callahan(Eastwood) and start pumping led. The "OH $H!T/F#CK ME" look on his face is enough for me to say it was by mistake.

My understanding of why he was in Nevada was because of the death threats not because of "being on the run." WTF?! Gotta love the media!

[Raiden]

So now you think it was an accident? You seriously need to make up your mind.

My initial assessment was that it was possible it could have been mistake but that I asserted as well may be it wasn't. Of course, it costed me my reputation here on O.com but oh well. I'll live.

It was mistake on my part for not looking more thoroughly; my older brother helped me see that I was wrong especially when he zoomed in on Mehserle's face a second or two after the weapon discharged.

But back on topic, does any one think the politically correct have their hand in all this?

[DACP]

Here's the full video without any narration from the moron reporters:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e43_1231220725

Not commenting on the shooting, but if you watch that video, at about :11 seconds into it, some one enters the picture from the right... look at his hands (right)..is it me or does he not look like he is carrying a small gun??

[Rev1]

Raiden,

Here we can point lots of fingers.

Let's start with the #1 guy here.

The dead guy.

Had he not been involved in previous criminal activity thereby becoming involved in an enforcement contact with the BART officers, there would have been no problem.

Had he complied with the orders the officers were giving him, completely and totally with NO resistance I mean NONE, then the officer probably would not have felt the need to utilize his Taser or anything else.

So he would probably be alive today. (Unless he got hit by a bus or something,)

Now we come to the #2 in this tragedy.

The administration.

(Wait a minute! What about the officer?)

Just hang on....I'll get to him in a minute.

I'm not going to pretend to know the first thing about how BART trains its officers. If it's anything like the typical training (Or lack of) I have seen, then they sent their warrior out to face the entire ugly world with little or no preparation.

It's called "deliberate indifference" and you can look up at least one case that I'm fairly familiar with called "Canton vs Harris 489 U.S. 378, 109 S. Ct. 1197 (1989).

I'm not going into the case here but suffice it to say that the Supreme Court said that cities are liable and responsible for adequately training their police officers.

If all this kid got was your basic four hour Taser course with no additional training with the device under dynamic and rapidly evolving conditions, then I say that's a travesty.

Over-reliance on some battery operated gizmo (Besides ruining relationships.)without throwing in the dynamics of the conditions the officer will face on the street, is a disservice to our officers and to our communities that rely on the officers to keep them safe.

It's like most of the fake crap they teach in martial arts dojos throughout the globe. People think that once you earn your black belt, you are ready to face the brutal realities of street violence where you could easily lose your life.

That thinking will get you killed very quickly.

I'm not saying Taser doesn't work. It does work. I've used it very successfully three times and it worked perfectly.

I also used it in the "drive stun" mode and it was complete and utter crap.

But that's another story.

Anyway, from the videos that have surfaced, I saw an officer that clearly was not mentally prepared to deal with the situation in which he found himself embroiled.

The four hour Taser course will not provide that mental conditioning either.

So it's up to the city/administration to take a very hard, very critical look at not only the latest gadgets, but exactly how they will be deployed by the officer on the street.

So when they chose Taser, (A wise decision by the way.), they should have also realized that they just presented ANOTHER device/tool/method for the officer to learn. The device is drawn like a firearm, has the basic "feel" of a firearm, and is worn on the gun belt like a firearm.

Hello? Anybody else see a problem with that?

Personally, I don't get how this confusion happens, but then again, I pretty much mentally train myself by rehearsing and playing the "when/then" game CONSTANTLY. I think many officers neglect the vital importance of doing that.

Training would at least have made him familiar with the "differences" of the device when he drew his firearm instead of the Taser.

I will bet you a dollar that he had pretty decent firearms training because that's where his muscle memory jumped to when things went south.

He went right to the firearm. Why? Probably because he never had any dynamic training with the Taser.

Now we come to #3. The officer.

Today, I see a lot of young people that really want to do this job and they come around and ask all these questions and they're very curious about what we do.

But there is no way they should ever become cops.

I don't know what it is that we're seeing or why we're seeing so much of it, but we get so many people that try to get into this job and they just don't have what it takes. Mentally or physically.

To me the mental part is FAR more important and it's the hardest to teach.

You either got what it takes or you don't.

No physically and mentally fit officer should go into Condition Black under these circumstances. EVER.

It didn't appear to be that chaotic to me. There were no blows being struck that I could see, the crowd wasn't pelting them with rocks, bottles or wads of tissue paper and there were three other officers present at least.....

Why did this officer have such a tremendous brain fart?

I don't have the answer.

But lack of training or poor training is ABSOLUTELY part of the problem.

The bit that really enrages me is that this poor guy just happened to be working in probably one of the worst parts of the country to be a cop in.

I've been to San Fransisco/the Bay area and I doubt this poor kid has a chance.

(Apologies for such a long post.)

Rev

[scratched13]

Good post, Rev.

Horay for riots!!!!!!!!! What a bunch of idiots. And it WILL get worse. Why do certain parts of our society protest and RIOT when career criminals get hurt/killed (ALWAYS with some type of resistance) yet there is NEVER a peep from them when a police officer is killed PROTECTING THEM??????????

[j706]

Good post, Rev.

Horay for riots!!!!!!!!! What a bunch of idiots. And it WILL get worse. Why do certain parts of our society protest and RIOT when career criminals get hurt/killed (ALWAYS with some type of resistance) yet there is NEVER a peep from them when a police officer is killed PROTECTING THEM??????????

Easy... it is called RACISM !! What a mess.

[Blizzination]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090115/...ing_bomb_scare

Bomb scares at the family's house now...

[djblank87]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090115/...ing_bomb_scare

Bomb scares at the family's house now...

That's great and it's only going to get worse.

[Seahawks398]

So they threaten to kill his family? Does anyone see any irony in this?

[jthorpe]

So they threaten to kill his family? Does anyone see any irony in this?

I was thinking the same thing when I read that this morning. Makes no sense.

[CHP Medic]

They'll have a trial and he'll most likely be found guilty of involunatry manslaughter, for accidentally shooting instead of tazing. Then we'll get larger pretests and riots.

An Officer here shot and killed a cuffed suspect in the back of her car because she accidentally drew her gun instead of her tazer. I'm not sure if she was charged with anything, but she didn't even lose her job.

[Raiden]

I just found this online. BART Statements on their website:

BART issues statement on former officer's arrest

01.14.09 Frequently asked questions about the investigation

01.14.09 BART Board and General Manager react to arrest of former officer

01.14.09 Latest on investigation into shooting at Fruitvale Station

01.12.09 BART Directors create Police Department Review Committee

01.12.09 BART Police complete criminal investigation, provide results to District Attorney's Office

01.10.09 BART holds meeting with community leaders and elected officials

01.10.09 BART welcomes Attorney General's participation

01.09.09 Transcript of statement from General Manager Dorothy Dugger, January 9 Press Conference

01.07.09 BART Police officer involved in fatal shooting resigns

01.04.09 Statement by BART Police Chief Gary Gee

[oc10spray]

Accident or not it's obviously inexcusable. Probably won't be the most popular person in the cell block. Protective custody for the duration of his stay I would assume...

[sinned]

That's probably because the female who shot that suspect wasn't captured on video.

Or because like this case, while tragic (for the officer and the department), and an accident, it doesn't rise to the level of “criminal” required for prosecution. But not for the morons in Oakland and the pressure from politicians to keep those morons from further damaging the city, the DA would never have filed charges in this case.