1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1

    Arizona 28-701 (A) Failure to control (Accident)

    I found this sight from a related post but it does not answer my specific question.

    I was given a violation written as "28-701 (A) Speeding"
    The information envelope provided describes this as "Failure to control (Accident) $142.00"

    From the limited information I could find online I believe the (A) suffix is specifically for failure to control speed when involved in an accident collision.
    Not accidental speeding. Is this correct?

    My booklet says 0-10MPH is a $135.00 ticket again different then the 28-701(A) at $142.00.

    With no accident could this ticket get thrown out in court by a technicality?

    The Story:
    I approached a 4 way stop in my neighbor hood. I was not the first to approach, no cars were moving, I waved the cross traffic twice (one was the under cover cop), Non of them proceeded into the intersection. Then the on coming traffic opposing me pulled in, so I pulled through the intersetion to get us all moving. The under cover cop was in a cross traffic lane, left lane straight only not the right hand turning lane with a car in his right lane goign straight. After he saw me pass in 1st gear with a loud exhaust he had to of waited for the car next to him to leave the intersection and he took an illegal right hand turn to fallow me. I was targeted for having a sports car with a loud exhaust. I saw the black ram charge coming up on me fast then he put his lights on. I was not accelerating I was behind another car, he never leveled off his speed. I was told my speed was 45 in a 35, I said where, he said right back there. I said can you show me the reading, He said yea, we go to the car and he jumped in and pushed some buttons then said he must not have locked it in and is not required to show me the radar reading.

    Last question, An accelerating cop car taking a front laser reading, how accurate can it be, within how many MPH?

    I think I can prove mathematically a reasonable doubt that the equipment under accelerating conditions with a variable seed target could be well within the legal speed limit of what is testable given the equipment tolerance under those conditions. Would it hold up in court, probably not.. but I am an EE designer professionally capable of making such an assessment.

    Are there any test specifications on the squad cars that are publicly available, related to speed reading tolerance and calibration under different conditions?
    Can I request that type of technical information before my court date?


    The related post I found:

    Definition of Failure to reduce speed to avoid an accident

    Quote Originally Posted by Desert DPS View Post
    Here it's "Failure to control to avoid collision"

    28-701. Reasonable and prudent speed; prima facie evidence; exceptions

    A. A person shall not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances, conditions and actual and potential hazards then existing. A person shall control the speed of a vehicle as necessary to avoid colliding with any object, person, vehicle or other conveyance on, entering or adjacent to the highway in compliance with legal requirements and the duty of all persons to exercise reasonable care for the protection of others.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    238
    You got a speeding ticket,so what, pay it and move on..

  3. #3
    Choke Yourself!
    wirefire2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Earth!
    Posts
    1,793
    Quote Originally Posted by Alegidly View Post
    I found this sight from a related post but it does not answer my specific question.

    I was given a violation written as "28-701 (A) Speeding"
    The information envelope provided describes this as "Failure to control (Accident) $142.00"

    From the limited information I could find online I believe the (A) suffix is specifically for failure to control speed when involved in an accident collision.
    Not accidental speeding. Is this correct?

    My booklet says 0-10MPH is a $135.00 ticket again different then the 28-701(A) at $142.00.

    With no accident could this ticket get thrown out in court by a technicality?
    No, the officer can amend the charge before a judge, and on the day of your court date with you standing right next to him. He can do this because its a still a speeding charge in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alegidly View Post
    The Story:
    I approached a 4 way stop in my neighbor hood. I was not the first to approach, no cars were moving, I waved the cross traffic twice (one was the under cover cop), Non of them proceeded into the intersection. Then the on coming traffic opposing me pulled in, so I pulled through the intersetion to get us all moving. The under cover cop was in a cross traffic lane, left lane straight only not the right hand turning lane with a car in his right lane goign straight. After he saw me pass in 1st gear with a loud exhaust he had to of waited for the car next to him to leave the intersection and he took an illegal right hand turn to fallow me. I was targeted for having a sports car with a loud exhaust.
    This maybe somewhat true but... There is a true story about a man who was shouting profanity on the side of the road at police as they drove by. Eventually the police stopped and approached him, and determined that he had a warrant or something along those lines and was arrested. The case went to the supreme court with the reasoning that the police had no reason to stop him and demand ID since he was merely exercising his free speech. It was granted that it was free speech but the other charges were upheld on the fact if you don't want to get the attention of police for various reasons then you shouldn't blatantly call attention to yourself.

    If you don't want the police on your tail maybe you should put a legal muffler on the car and not speed.

    Also a police officer can disregard the rules of the road and violate the traffic code in order to perform his or her duty. The turn from the left lane would not be illegal since it was executed in order to catch a vehicle with a possible equipment violation and subsequent speeding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alegidly View Post
    I saw the black ram charge coming up on me fast then he put his lights on. I was not accelerating I was behind another car, he never leveled off his speed. I was told my speed was 45 in a 35, I said where, he said right back there. I said can you show me the reading, He said yea, we go to the car and he jumped in and pushed some buttons then said he must not have locked it in and is not required to show me the radar reading.

    Last question, An accelerating cop car taking a front laser reading, how accurate can it be, within how many MPH?
    If the radar was properly calibrated (it will be) it would be dead on. This stuff has been around for a long time. Moving and same-direction radar is not new and a well refined technology. If you can't give a reasonable doubt that the radar was completely faulty then you won't have much to stand on. The officer/department can produce records of annual calibration and some even keep a log when the do the daily test with the tuning forks on the radar.

    The forks don't actually change anything on the radar unit itself but vibrates at a certain frequency. If the radar is calibrated properly it will show a specific speed. The radar also does an internal check to make sure its computer functions are working properly. The combination of these tests insures the radar is working properly and accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alegidly View Post
    I think I can prove mathematically a reasonable doubt that the equipment under accelerating conditions with a variable seed target could be well within the legal speed limit of what is testable given the equipment tolerance under those conditions. Would it hold up in court, probably not.. but I am an EE designer professionally capable of making such an assessment.
    The problem with your theory is that you're assuming the radar is going to be working improperly. The radar tracks in real time and the officer is going to see you either speed up or slow down just as fast as you accelerate or decelerate. The movement of the officer's vehicle is not going to throw off your speed. The radar sends out more than one beam, one for the officer's car and the target car.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alegidly View Post
    Are there any test specifications on the squad cars that are publicly available, related to speed reading tolerance and calibration under different conditions?
    Can I request that type of technical information before my court date?
    I mentioned the tuning fork test above. Its simple and fool proof. If the radar is out of whack then it will show with the tuning fork test. The radars can read speeds as low as 5mph with a range with as far as you can see generally. Granted its flat and the radar waves to bounce back.
    Weather does not affect radar. Snow, rain, wind, fog, and darkness have no affect. If anything it wouldn't change the speed it just would not get a clear doppler tone.

    Yes you can request technical information, call or visit the state or city attorney's office to make the request before court. Waiting till the day will just cause confusion and will delay getting your ticket resolved. The only thing that is really going to be available is the calibration documents for the radar. The officer doesn't have to keep a log of the fork tests, if he does it will only hurt you since it will be a legal document that he did in fact test his radar that day. Otherwise you can contact the manufacturer and see about getting a manual but I don't know how that would do you any good.
    Last edited by wirefire2; 12-10-2008 at 03:00 AM.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Avondale Arizona
    Posts
    7
    ARS 28-701A is the ticket for speeding. It is also the one for failure to control speed to avoid a collision. You won't get the ticket thrown out for a technicality and the cop will not have to amend it. Pay the ticket or take traffic school.

  5. #5
    Positive Thinker

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    709
    Dont pay the ticket, dont go to school. Fight the charge. Set up a hearing date and take all your questions to court and plead your case with the judge. Your an American. You have rights. Oh and when you judge hammers you with a large *** fine, take it like a man and pay it. Because your not going to win. Your not the first guy to question police equipment and I would guess its not the first ticket that cop has written.

    I always encourage my violators to go to court and fight the charge. Civil traffic court is on my day off and its an automatic two hours OT. In an Arizona civil traffic hearing you dont need reasonable doubt. Its proponderance of the evidence.

    Good luck sir

  6. #6
    On the job in the desert

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    496
    You need to read the first part of ARS 28-701A, the part that says, "A person shall not drive a vehicle on a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable and prudent under the circumstances, conditions and actual and potential hazards then existing." You're caught, pay the ticket or go to traffic school.....or fight it and give the officer a few hours OT. I love it when people fight my tickets, because if I win in court, I got paid 2 hours overtime and you had to pay the ticket. If you win in court, I STILL got paid two hours OT and you had to take a day out of your life to fight the ticket. Either way, I win.
    1*

    Ten dash eight!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Click here to log in or register