So, you need to pick out a concealed carry pistol, huh?

[jwise]

This is one of those topics that comes up quite a bit. Some others have stated that the topic should be made into a sticky, so that people can read an existing thread on the topic instead of creating a new thread every couple of weeks. This is my effort in compiling concealed carry information and to provide a place for those with questions to come.

I do not plan to be the sole source of information here, as picking a carry piece is too subjective for only one point of view. I ask others who have carried a weapon either professionally or privately to chime in, and discuss how you went about choosing your carry piece, and what features/criterion were important to you.

Concealed Carry Weapons

First off, I want to point out the fact that I used the word "weapon", not "firearm", as the NRA and other firearms organizations might insist upon. I do this because when you are picking out a handgun that you will be carrying on your person concealed, you aren't selecting an object for sport, or a tool for hunting, but a weapon for fighting.

So, the first issue in selecting a carry weapon is to remember its intended purpose is to be used in a gunfight. The weapon should be suitable for such purposes, which means it should hold a suitable amount of ammunition, have suitable combat sights, and should be extremely reliable.

Personal Protection vs. Duty Weapon

Some people make the choice to carry a weapon for their own personal protection, and others make the choice to carry a weapon to confront evil. I don't want to pass judgement, but the weapon selection for each philosophy will be different.

I've written about this before, and you can read about it in the linked thread below in my signature line ("Off-Duty Carry.")

A personal self-defense weapon will be used for short-range, personal confrontations. The need for combat sights is less important, but reliability could be even more paramount (if that's possible.)

Here are a couple handguns that would fall into the Personal Self-Defense category:

Kel-Tec P32:



Notice the clip on the side. This pistol doesn't actually even need a holster to stay attached to my waistband. It can clip right onto the waistband of a pair of gym shorts, and not make them fall down!

NAA Guardian .32acp:



In a Duty weapon, sights are paramount, because you may need to engage a threat against another, which could be across the room, across the street, or a precise hostage rescue shot may be needed. Capacity is more important, as an extended gunfight may ensue.

I upgraded my pocket pistol from the choice between one of these two, to the Kahr PM9. Here are the three pistols as they stack up:



Obviously the Kahr is larger than the other two, but while they are all three pocket pistols, they are in two different leagues. Check out the sights on the three pistols:



Kel-Tec P32 sight picture:



NAA Guardian sight picture:



Kahr PM9:



I was able to shoot a 98% on a 25yd qualification course with this pistol before I left the department. I could never have done that with the other two pistols...

You will first need to decide if you will be carrying for personal self-defense ONLY, or whether you will prepare to confront evil if it finds you. Again, I'm not passing judgement if you only want to carry for your own safety, but if you are a professional law enforcement officer, it may be difficult to carry a DUTY weapon while on the job, but only a SELF-DEFENSE weapon after-hours. You may find yourself trying to stop an armed robbery with a derringer... (BAD IDEA!)

So by now you have (a) recognized that your purpose in selecting a weapon is to prepare for a gunfight, and (b) decided to carry a Self-Defense or a Duty weapon.

Factors to Consider

Do you carry a primary weapon on the job? If so, what is it? If you are carrying a full-size Glock on-duty, then I would recommend a compact or subcompact Glock off-duty. You have already dedicated an immense amount of time and practice on a specific weapon platform, and it would be to your distinct advantage to capitalize on this training by selecting a concealed carry weapon that operates in the same manner as your primary. If your primary is double-action only (DAO), double-action/single-action (DA/SA), striker fired, single-action only (SAO), or utilizes a safety mechanism, your concealed carry weapon should operate the same way.

The size of the pistol matters. Most manufacturers offer compact models with short barrels and short grips. Some manufacturers offer short grips but not barrels, short barrels but not grips, etc... These different models are designed for users who carry differently, such as inside waistband (IWB), outside waistband (OWB), pocket, ankle, etc...

The weight of the pistol matters. Some manufacturers have models in various combinations of materials: all-steel, aluminum/steel, polymer/steel, and other lightweight alloys (Scandium, Titanium, etc...) If you're carrying in your pocket, weight is incredibly important, same as on the ankle. If you're carrying on the hip, using a quality holster/belt, the weight will hardly be noticeable.

The weight is also important not only when you are CARRYING the weapon, but also when you are SHOOTING the weapon. More weight helps control the pistol when rapidly firing, which is a good thing. Extremely lightweight .357 magnum handguns are NOT fun to shoot, but are easy to conceal and carry all day long. If lightweight handguns hurt your hands when shooting, they may not be right for you. If shooting them is just not as comfortable as shooting heavier handguns, but it doesn't affect your shooting, then it may be worth it. This brings us to the next factor to consider...

Shoot before you buy

You should always try and shoot the pistol you are thinking about buying BEFORE you fill out the paperwork. There are a lot of super-lightweight magnum revolvers that get put on consignment that have only been fired once. However, even if you're not looking at superlight magnums, you should shoot ANY firearm before you buy it. Find a range that rents handguns, or borrow one from a friend.

Methods of Carrying

You will need to decide how you plan to carry a pistol. The method you employ will determine the speed with which you can present your weapon, the size of pistol you can carry, the importance of the pistol's weight, the type of clothes you will need to wear, the need for a cover garment, and what kind of holsters you will need to buy.

Can you get away with wearing an untucked shirt? If not, can you wear a cover garment? Can you keep the cover garment on all day long, or will you need to remove it for any reason? The answers to these questions will determine if you can carry strong-side hip, or whether you will need to use a different method.

If you will not be able to wear a cover garment, or untucked shirt, then you could look into the tuckable holsters. The Versa-Max II, the SuperTuck, and others might be exactly what you will need.

Budget

It may seem obvious, or the least important, but it is very important in making a decision (and even MORE important when soliciting others to help you make a decision.)

Determine how much you can spend on a specific carry weapon, but don't forget you will also need to buy at least a holster, and perhaps more in order to pull off a specific carry method. Which brings us to the next subject...

[jwise]

Holster Options

I've got a bunch of holsters. However, I have quickly found a few types that I prefer, and have pretty much stuck with them. Here's a smattering of some holsters, pistols, and other peripheral gear.



Kydex

There is Kydex, and then there is cheap plastic. I found this out the hard way (by buying an inferior product to begin with.)

It was MANY years ago, and I needed a straight drop holster for IPSC shooting matches. The FOBUS was only $20, so I picked it up. It pretty much sucks. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.



The Kydex holsters, on the other hand, are excellent. These would include the Blade-Tech, Blackhawk, and Comp-Tac holsters. However, watch out. Blackhawk CQC holsters should cost $35 or more. If you find one for less, it is probably one of their newer "economy" models which is made of cheap plastic instead of high-quality Kydex.

Blade-Tech:



The company makes "generic" holsters that fit three frames, (1) 1911's, (2) 9mm/.40S&W Glocks and (3) .45/10mm Glocks. These models are approximately $35 compared to the $65 for holsters specifically molded to fit a particular firearm. To be honest, these "generic" holsters are made to fit the Glock 26, Glock 30, and 4" 1911 models. The only difference between these models and all others in that frame size, is the barrel length. Here's what those holsters look like with the fullsize version of each weapon:



Blackhawk CQC:



The Blackhawk CQC goes for around $50.

Leather

The good thing about leather holsters, is that they don't scratch up your handgun. The bad thing is if you leave them in the holster while in storage, they will rust your handgun, as the leather retains moisture.

My favorite leather holsters are all made by Jim Burke out of Paris, TX. He is now deceased, but a new holster maker is now making holsters from his molds.



The holster is a belt-slide, with an extreme cant. The holster is made to be worn further back than a traditional holster, at about the 4 o'clock position on the belt. This puts the pistol in such a position that it prints less. I have one for my 1911s, and one for my P7M8.



This particular holster is made to fit the 4" 1911 better than the 5". Here's the holster with a 4" Kimber Pro CDP:



Since this holster is an OWB, the length of barrel on your CCW will matter when it comes to concealability. Obviously the 4" barrel would be more concealable than its 5" brethren.

Nylon

I do not recommend nylon holsters for concealed carry. However, they have their place. I like this particular Uncle Mike's #15, as it is something of a "one-size fits all" holster.



It allows me to have at least SOMETHING to carry any of my handguns, without investing in a uniquely made holster just for each one.



In addition, it can carry a number of different types of handguns, in case I don't know which handgun I'll have with me at the time.

I'll admit the application is limited, but it's nice to have options.

[Jsstritz]

in for another legendary Jwise thread!

[David Hineline]

I have carried for personal defense for over 20yrs, as the axis of evil reports bombard me, more and more often I feel the need to carry more gun.

The upside of being a fatty is loose type gangsta clothing easily covers full sized guns. The downside of course it ability of movement.

I carry Yaqui style holster and find that barrel length is my print, not grip size, so the ideal gun for concealment would be full size grip frame/short slide.

Right now I carry M&P full size 9mm with 17rnd mag in gun, and either 1 or 2 weak side spare magazines with +6 basepads. I wear nothing but Woolrich pants and a Keltec P32 with 10rnd magazine in some pocket somewhere.

[jwise]

OWB v. IWB

Inside waistband holsters are obviously made to be worn INSIDE the waistband, and attach to the belt in one of several manners. Blade-Tech uses either loops or what they call a "J" hook. I prefer the J-Hooks.

See above picture of Blade-Tech holsters.

The OWB holsters can attach by a number of different ways as well. Some are more secure, and some are made to be easier/faster at putting on and taking off. Most attach to the belt, but in different ways. Some require the belt to be threaded through the holster, while others attach over the belt.

Paddle

The paddle holster is well suited for those who do not necessarily want to wear their pistols all day long, but want to be able to put it on quickly without disrobing. The handgun in the holster can slip right on over belt and pants.

Here are my two paddle holsters, the Blackhawk CQC and the Fobus:



Side view:




Belt Slide

This Don Hume is the perfect example of a typical belt slide holster:



The belt is threaded through the holster, allowing the holster to "slide" into the correct position. It stays in place by the positioning of the belt loops.

Notice the back of the Don Hume, where the belt would slide through the holster:



Pocket Holsters

Pocket holsters help to keep the handgun positioned securely inside your pocket while carrying. It prevents the handgun from rotating around, as well as breaking up the image of the handgun "printing" through the pocket.



While there are many manufacturers of pocket holsters, I just use the ones offered by Uncle Mike's. They are inexpensive, and small, in addition to working quite well. The Kel-Tec P32 and NAA Guardian .32acp are in Uncle Mike's #1 holsters, while the Kahr PM9 is in an Uncle Mike's #3.

Retention

Some holsters have retention devices, and some do not. You will need to decide if you will need a holster with a retention system or not. Since we are talking about concealed carry, and not open-carry, I don't think retention is as necessary. However, retention is always a good idea...

Notice the Blackhawk CQC holsters. They have what is called the "Serpa" technology, that retains the handgun by the trigger guard until slight pressure is put on the side of the holster by the index finger. This releases the hold on the handgun, allowing it to come right out.



The CQC can be configured to be either a paddle or belt holster. The back is modular, and allows for the holster to be canted as well.



Magazines

There are various kinds of magazines for pistols. Some can give you higher capacity, or a flusher fit. Here are some options for the Glock 9mm and 1911s.

The Glock 26 is a very compact and lightweight companion. However, sometimes I have not needed such a compact weapon, and would prefer a larger magazine capacity or more comfortable grip. While not wanting to buy another pistol for such a small variance, I found a slip-on grip extender for a Glock 19 magazine (15rd capacity.) It goes right into the G26, and fills out the grip much like a Glock 19.



I really like this product, as it gives me one more option in the toolbox...

When it comes to the 1911, there are a few options. First off, as a rule I feed all my 1911s from Wilson 47D magazines. These magazines have a bumper pad on the bottom, and hold 8 rounds.



The second option is to go with the stock magazine, which fits flush and holds 7 rounds.



If you're not worrying about the butt of the weapon printing, but would rather carry the weapon with as much ammunition as it readily can, you could go with a 10rd mag from either Chip McCormick or Wilson.

I already hit the 10 picture limit per post, so I can't show you my Les Baer with a 10rd mag sticking out the butt. Sorry...

[Mstangfk]

my biggest issue is hot weather carry.

i can not STAND IWB holsters, and i dont like having to wear a shot sleeve shirt over a t-shirt

i carry a Walther P99QA in .40, in a Don Hume JIT slide belt holster with a matching mag pouch weak side.

im gonna eventually go to a Glock subcompact or a Kahr..

[GrayBlue]

What would be proper for a concealed carry weapon?

Let's first start with your own idea of what the best pistol is. Once the pistol is out in a shoot out situation, there would be no differnce between best duty pistol and best concealed carry pistol would be. So, let's start from there. Now, the only difference is that you have to carry it concealed. So, what qualities of a best pistol do you have to give up in order for concealment?

I would like you to carefully think about this: Do you really need to give up anything at all? I usually conceal carry my full size Glock 22. I gave up nothing. I did give up my P226R DAK, but that was not my decision. My department made that decision. That may not be the best solution for all. But, my point is: Don't compromise just because someone tells you you should for a concealed carry pistol, only compromise because of a specific need.

For pistol sights, I don't see any need for a compromise. Factory SIG or Glock sights take up just as much room as Trijicon or Meprolight Night sight, and same goes with many other aftermarket sight with other makes of self loading pistols. So, I don't see how giving up good sights would help with concealability unless the user prefers some sort of exotic sights that protrudes much. In case of a revolver, I can see how some adjustable sights
can create snag problems, but then again I'd prefer fixed sights for a weapon to start with.

These are the usual reasons for making comprimises:
Too large for concealment
Too large for comfort
Too heavy for comfort
Some feature on your ideal pistol makes draw from concealment difficult.

How much size / weight is proper? It depends on how much you want to put up with. Some will complain that SIG P229 is too heavy, while a person like me would refuse to give it up. It your favorite pistol feels too heavy for you, obviously you would need to select a lighter pistol. But, before you do so, make sure you did put an effort to make it comfortable. Belt and holster combination affects comfort greatly. Pistols like P229 is not likely to be comfortable with a cheap holster hanging on a thin 1 inch dress belt. But, concealment with reasonable comfort can be done by many. However, if you do decide to go with a lighter pistol, make sure the weight reduction is sufficient. If you thought full size SIG P226 was too heavy or large, going to a compact size SIG P229 might not feel much better while some others may feel it is significantly better.

Size wise, of course a compact size Glock 19 would be too large for ankle carry for most. But, if it's a waist holster carry, is Glock 19 significantly less comfortable or concealable than a sub-compact Glock 26? If not, why the sacrifice? What part is specifically bothering you? If you are uncomfortable with Glock 22's width, going to a Glock 26 which has the same width is not likely to help. Going to a pistol that is more slim might. If Glock 22's full length grip diggs in to your waist too much, then Glock 27 with its shorter grip might help.

I have concealed full size pistol without over garment only wearing dress pants and shirt, so it can be done. I'm not that big at all. It will be even less of a problem with untucked shirt. Wearing shorts would be irrelevant unless you're opting for an ankle carry. But, this is not to say attire does not matter. In my experience, it was more of a problem with how to get to the pistol. Let's say you chose a tuckable IWB holster because you need to take off your over garment. Now, if you put on a winter parka over it as you get out, it might be hard to get to.
On top of that, imagine drawing from that while sitting in a car. In that case, would a second pistol, such as a sub compact, in the parka's pocket help? Something to think about.

I did find pocket carry valueable. But, what I don't like about it is the choice of pistols it leaves me with. I don't like the ergonomics of snub nose revolvers. With self loaders, there's not much good pistols to start with if you're looking for something smaller than a Glock 26.

Also, you might need more than one. Even if you have a compact size pistol, you might find a situation where you can only stick a sub compact in your pocket. I would not recommend that sub compact being your only gun when you have a choice, but if you did chose a sub compact like Glock 26 or Glock 27, you can still stick a full size Glock 17 magazine in a Glock 26 or Glock 22 magazine in a Glock 27. Just some more options to think about.

If it was up to me, I'd carry my P226R DAK all the time.

[amw315]

I also think it is an important point to make for all non-law enforcement readers of this forum...and the only reason I say this is because I would hope every police officer has already made this decision in their own mind...

A concealed gun has one purpose; to kill people. If you are carrying concealed, you first must make the decision with 100% certainty that if you are confronted with a situation where deadly force is justified that you are able to pull the trigger and kill someone to defend your life. If you don't think you can, then you have no reason to carry a concealed weapon.

[AviatorDoc]

Nice topic again by the "Guru"
I went through this recently, as I do not "carry on duty". Have a Kimber custom carry in 45, but although I am a super shot with it, do not get to carry it all the time due to its weight, size and poor conceal ability.
Time to get to one which will work. Did read everything out there, and decided to start with the sub compacts as any larger would put me right where I started. Big and heavy.
Got myself a Ruger LCP, ordered through GT dist, for 289 $. Great little gun and it is always with me and goes everywhere, rather inexpensive, and with the right ammo can serve its purpose rather well. It is so easy to field strip and clean, and quite similar to my 1911 in constuction and design.
As Jwise said, this may not be the fun gun at the range to shoot, but its mission would be solely restricted to very close encounters that may just get you out and alive.
Right now I have a Keltec clip and can either carry it naked in my pants pocket or IBW with just the clip showing under the belt I wear. I don’t even know its there or feel the gun and am so pleased. My Treo weighs more....! And it rings in public!!

Looking forward to some good reading here along with opinions on holsters, defensive ammo choices, etc.

[muertegumshoe]

There are a couple things I think must be considered when choosing the firearm that is 'right for you' when selecting one for concealed carry. While some may dress or have a body type which is conducive for hiding a full size hand-cannon under their shirt or jacket, those of us who are not large enough to do so or who dont want to be stuck wearing down jackets in summer probably won't see this as an option.

I have been on the job for about 15 years, and while I have made the conscious decision to carry a majority of the time while off duty, I have also worked an assignment where concealed carry was mandatory and potentially a matter of life and death.

The first consideration I think one must make is caliber. I know quite a few folks who have chosen the 'small caliber' route, allowing greater concealibilty. This is fine, but you must realize that .25's & .380's may very well lack the energy necessary to stop whatever threat you are confronted with & if you are in this situation you are more than likely alone and don't have a radio to call in the troops.

While I carry a .45 while working (H&K USP), I personally chose to step down to a .40 while off duty. Certainly not a slouch of a round...it offers a little less weight while giving me a couple extra rounds, and easier to control in a smaller framed gun. I looked at several different makes/models and shot quite a few and decided upon the Glock 27. With the replaced floorplate on the magazine (which is mandatory as hanging your pinky off the gun is just silly and unsafe in my opinion), I can easily control it and it shoots extremely straight out to 25 yards. It is a little wider than some out there, given the double stack mag, but given everything i considered....I went with it some 13 years ago. It has served me well (fortunately I have never had to actually fire it other than at the range).

Which brings me to another point. Whatever you buy and decide to carry, shoot it. Shoot it regularly. If you are not proficient with you weapon, you are no good to anyone and may very well be a liability.

Tritium sights are great and relatively cheap. I recommend them personally but realize that after you fire that first round at night, they are much less effective as you are blinded by the muzzle flash.

Holsters.....I swear by Milt Sparks stuff. Expensive and you wait a few months to get it BUT, their stuff is heads above your mass produced leather products. I carry the G27 in a Summer Special II holster (in the waist holsster, which I have had for over 12 years. It still holds the gun tight after all these years (several of which were 40-60 hours a week working U/C.) Like everything else....you get what you pay for and this keeps the gun tight against your body and easily concealed under an untucked shirt while remaining easy and fast to draw. I have several other's for this gun, including the blackhawk CQC (GREAT HOLSTER) but i find the concealability is more challenging with it. Living here on the LEFT COAST, perhaps I am a little more paranoid about being detected than you folks who have state legislators that have a little more common sense. Here, most folks think guns are SCARY and EVIL so I have to always keep this in mind.

As for AMMO....I carry Hydroshok. I have seen first hand it's performance. It does not over-penetrate, opens consistently, thus releasing its energy in the target as intended. I personally have never seen the jacket separate like on Ranger ammo (which is my dept's duty carry) though I could not say that it doesn't happen.

Those of you who do decide to conceal carry, especially non-LEO, realize what great responsibility you accept by deciding to do so. Ensure you are proficient, do not be too proud to ask questions and put yourself through formal training. Practice, Practice, Practice....you can ultimately be an asset to society....just make sure you are not a liability.

[daspy21]

Originally Posted by jwise

David- Please provide the masses with a picture of a "Yaqui" style holster. I'm familiar with the design, but I'm sure there are many who are not (and they are the target audience!)

here is a "Yaqui" paddle


here is a "Yaqui" slide

[Jere]

I am a recent addition to the "packing public." I never thought I had much need to carry a weapon until my neighbor got shot by another neighbor, a friend nearly got stabbed while trying to sell his car, and a psych patient threatened to follow me home after he was discharged. Being in Security I quickly learned the need to protect one's self and other's if necesary.

After carrying a gun for a while it can change how you see the world. Not only is it empowering but it involves taking on a large responsibility. You go from being one of the herd to protecting the herd. You don't become the shepard, just the sheepdog. It is

I have not had to use my weapon and I hope I never have to. But from the retired cops I work with and others I know whom have had to use deadly force I have learned this: If you do have to use your weapon in self defense you can count on several things:

• Police Response - they will come. You will be disarmed and seperated from what happened. Expect and prepare for it. This is for the protection of the officers and all around.
• Surrender - not only your weapon but also yourself, and do it quickly. Those who respond cannot right off tell who is the bad guy and you may be shot if you do not immediately comply. It is not something against you, it is their own safety and that of those around that they are concerned with. Yours is second.
• Law Suits - likely from the other guy (if he survives) or his family, and/or the state. A murder charge against you is likely something you will have to deal with. It will be expensive.
• Media - they will be all over you, the scene, the witnesses, your family, everywhere. Tell them nothing without consulting a lawyer and the police. One wrong statement to them can fry you when otherwise you may have had their support (not likely but you never know).
• Praise - people may praise you. Don't look for it or egg it on. Doing so may make it look like you were looking for the attention and therefor the fight.
• Persecution - the family will want you locked away or even dead, maybe the public and media too. Also the state may press charges. It will happen in some degree and it may last for years.
• Scrutiny - from mostly the police and media. They will look into every nook and cranny of you, your life, and maybe that of your family if it turns out to be a big ordeal in the public eye.
• Counseling - you are going to need. You may not think so but get it anyway. Taking the life of another human being can be detrimental to one's self and you have to deal with it.
• Carnage - there will be chaos. People will be crying and maybe screaming. There will be blood, maybe pieces of meat or skin that left the body. If your bullet(s) hit something other than the bad guy there could be some rubble, especially if you hit a water or sewage pipe.
• Blood - it may be in just a puddle under the body, it may be splattered on a wall from an exit wound, it may be spurting out of a hit artery, it might be flung around the area by the bad guy, or all of the above. The human body holds a lot of it and if you hit the right area most of it may leave that body.
• Smell - you will smell the cordite from the burned powder, the blood from the bad guy, maybe even the vomit of bystanders or yourself. It may scare the waste out of some.
• Damage - it may be slight or overwhelming. Maybe just a bullet sized hole in the bad guy. Maybe the drywall and drop ceiling collapse from a burst waterpipe. Bystanders may get hurt by the bullet or debris. The bad guy may lose pieces of himself, especially if he puts his hand up just before you shoot.
• Panic - people likely will be histerical, especially other bad guys or friends/family of hit bystanders. You may be the most paniced of them all.
• Fear - everyone around will be afraid. You will be too. Once the threat is gone try to aleviate the ambient fear by doing something peaceful i.e. lowering your gun, or telling everyone it is alright. If you don't then that fear that kept you alive and everyone else at bay may turn to anger.
• Anger - you may be angry at the person you shot; afterall, he made you shoot him. His friends/family will be at the very least angry at you for taking their friend/family away from them. Angry people don't respond well to reason so trying to tell them you had too even when they understand why and agree with you they will still be angry.
• Unexpected - no matter what happens, something you did not think about or plan for will happen.

The why of carrying a weapon for defense is just as important or more so than the how or what. I have made it sound bad because if it happens it will be. Better to prepare for it now than deal with it later.

[jwise]

Excellent advice gentlemen. Keep it up!

One of my favorite IWB holsters is made by Blade-Tech, and is molded especially for the Cold Steel Tanto. It also fits the CAT Tanto, which is an exact replica made completely out of polymer.



The sheath has metal rivets, so I don't think it will go through a metal detector or anything, but it's VERY lightweight, and works a lot better than a pencil...


Here's the Les Baer w/ 10rd Shooting Star mag:



Just gorgeous if you ask me...

[TimK]

Here's one that's been bugging me.

I've in the past month been carrying everywhere. Got some larger shirts and have no problems carrying an officer-sized 1911 around town. At work where the dress code is tighter I just pocket-carry the P3AT. My problem is the 1911.

When using the restroom, I'm forced to leave my belt buckled when standing. Not a big problem, but I was used to undoing the fly before. When sitting, on the other hand, I find I have to unholster and set my pistol down, else when drawing up my pants I can drop the darn thing. Once in the pot! That was an unfun introduction to fully breaking down the 1911 for cleaning.

Is unholstering what's normally done? Is my Desantis Cozy Partner not offering enough retention? I can tighten it up, but this is the only situation where I have trouble keeping the pistol in place. Does it just take more practice?

[jwise]

Tim, that's hilarious...

I think you'll get used to it....

[GrayBlue]

Originally Posted by TimK

Here's one that's been bugging me.

I've in the past month been carrying everywhere. Got some larger shirts and have no problems carrying an officer-sized 1911 around town. At work where the dress code is tighter I just pocket-carry the P3AT. My problem is the 1911.

When using the restroom, I'm forced to leave my belt buckled when standing. Not a big problem, but I was used to undoing the fly before. When sitting, on the other hand, I find I have to unholster and set my pistol down, else when drawing up my pants I can drop the darn thing. Once in the pot! That was an unfun introduction to fully breaking down the 1911 for cleaning.

Is unholstering what's normally done? Is my Desantis Cozy Partner not offering enough retention? I can tighten it up, but this is the only situation where I have trouble keeping the pistol in place. Does it just take more practice?

Simple method that works well for me in toilet. With a belt holster in 4 O'clock position:

1. Loosen the belt as much as possible, at least enough so you can get the pants down.
2. Bring the belt down to above knee level.
3. Rotate the waist of the pants to that the holstered pistol would come on top of your lap close to the knee.
4. Sit and rest your elbow or arm over the holster on top of your lap.
5. If you are in one of those ill fitted restrooms with wide gaps on the divider, put your jacket or coat over it, if you have one.

[Fëanor]

The more I read, it seems like it may not be practical for me to expect to wear shorts and a single untucked T-shirt while concealing a Glock 30. I was planning on doing this with an IWB Raven Phantom holster using their velcro hooks (and sewing velcro onto the back of the belt), similar to the picture below. However, I have some questions:

• Is the Glock 30 too thick or too heavy? I looked at the single-stacked G36 but it is longer and taller with just over half of the magazine capacity. Mag capacity is very important to me, but then again four loaded .45 ACP rounds adds some weight, plus the extra 1/4lb of gun weight. I'm just not sure how important the weight will be while it's on my belt; I have a feeling it is more noticeable in my hands.
• Will I want to wear an undershirt? Or will I be comfortable enough with the gun against my bare skin? An undershirt is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.
• Will the velcro hooks work or should I look at the other types of belt hooks? I am concerned with the noise the Velcro could make, but I also want to be sure that it can stay attached. Not only do I want it to support the weight of the gun but I also don't want the velcro to separate when I yank the pistol out of the holster.

Originally Posted by Jere

The why of carrying a weapon for defense is just as important or more so than the how or what. I have made it sound bad because if it happens it will be. Better to prepare for it now than deal with it later.

I'm not saying that the information about the risks of carrying a weapon isn't important, but it is not helpful when it comes to selecting a pistol/belt/holster.

[Bighead]

Another option for a concealment holster with a retention device is the Safariland ALS line of holsters. The concealment models are #6377 which is a belt-slide model, and the 6378 which is a paddle design.

The Automatic Locking System (ALS) was developed for Safariland duty holsters in response to the popularity of weapon-mounted lights, which precluded the ability to use the trigger guard in retention. The ALS locks onto the ejection-port, and is released by pressing a thumb button. The system is called "automatic" because, like the Blackhawk SERPA, the user is not required to take any action to resecure the firearm upon holstering. As the gun is holstered the ALS latches onto the ejection port, securing the firearm.

The holsters are made of suede-lined Safarilaminate in either plain black or carbon fiber look, with belt loop or paddle made of injection molded plastics. These holsters retail for a little over $50.

My impressions: While slightly bulkier than the Blackhawk SERPA, this holster is still an acceptable size for concealment under a jacket or loose baggy clothing. The holster wears close to the body, with a slight forward cant. It seemed to be well made, and the ALS button was positioned where my thumb naturally landed on it while taking a fighting grip during the draw stroke. I think this holster would make a very good choice for carrying a full size semi-auto pistol, especially for law enforcment officers who carry an ALS duty holster.

[GrayBlue]

Originally Posted by Fëanor

The more I read, it seems like it may not be practical for me to expect to wear shorts and a single untucked T-shirt while concealing a Glock 30. I was planning on doing this with an IWB Raven Phantom holster using their velcro hooks (and sewing velcro onto the back of the belt), similar to the picture below. However, I have some questions:

• Is the Glock 30 too thick or too heavy? I looked at the single-stacked G36 but it is longer and taller with just over half of the magazine capacity. Mag capacity is very important to me, but then again four loaded .45 ACP rounds adds some weight, plus the extra 1/4lb of gun weight. I'm just not sure how important the weight will be while it's on my belt; I have a feeling it is more noticeable in my hands.
• Will I want to wear an undershirt? Or will I be comfortable enough with the gun against my bare skin? An undershirt is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.
• Will the velcro hooks work or should I look at the other types of belt hooks? I am concerned with the noise the Velcro could make, but I also want to be sure that it can stay attached. Not only do I want it to support the weight of the gun but I also don't want the velcro to separate when I yank the pistol out of the holster.

I'm not saying that the information about the risks of carrying a weapon isn't important, but it is not helpful when it comes to selecting a pistol/belt/holster.

It depends on how much you are willing to put up with. I believe SIG P229 is thicker and heavier, but I concealed carried that one. Shorts and T-shirt is quite irrelevant for the most part. Larget guns can be concealed with dress shirt and pants, and what is the difference between dress attire and short and T-shirt? The sleeves are shorter. But, you don't conceal a waist holster with sleeves, so don't let that fool you. Besides, shorts and T-shirt is can be loose fitting which even helps more. My only concern with T-shirt is that even when untucked, the bottom of the shirt may not come low enough and reveal the holster if the wearer bends forward at the waist. But, how small of a pistol you have won't matter in that case. So, if you are using untucked top of any kind for conceal ment, you'll have to keep that in mind. And, also consider a "tall" size if feasible.

Under shirt also depends on how sensitive, or insensitive, you are. I would not be comfortable with most IWB holster without undershirt, but if the IWB holster has a wide flat pad contoured to your waist, such as M-TAC, it does ease the uncomfort.

Don't expect a patch of Velcro to bear major load. Holster can be pushed up or knocked side ways, canted, etc. while wearing. And, I'm not even talking about fighting. Whatever holds the holster to the belt has to withstand all of that.

[jwise]

Originally Posted by Fëanor

The more I read, it seems like it may not be practical for me to expect to wear shorts and a single untucked T-shirt while concealing a Glock 30. I was planning on doing this with an IWB Raven Phantom holster using their velcro hooks (and sewing velcro onto the back of the belt), similar to the picture below. However, I have some questions:

• Is the Glock 30 too thick or too heavy? I looked at the single-stacked G36 but it is longer and taller with just over half of the magazine capacity. Mag capacity is very important to me, but then again four loaded .45 ACP rounds adds some weight, plus the extra 1/4lb of gun weight. I'm just not sure how important the weight will be while it's on my belt; I have a feeling it is more noticeable in my hands.
• Will I want to wear an undershirt? Or will I be comfortable enough with the gun against my bare skin? An undershirt is unacceptable as far as I'm concerned.
• Will the velcro hooks work or should I look at the other types of belt hooks? I am concerned with the noise the Velcro could make, but I also want to be sure that it can stay attached. Not only do I want it to support the weight of the gun but I also don't want the velcro to separate when I yank the pistol out of the holster.

I'm not exactly sure about that holster, but I routinely wear shorts and a t-shirt with my G30. However, I do wear an undershirt, but it is also untucked. I do this to add a bit of thickness to the cover shirt, so that the G30 doesn't print so badly.

Regarding weight, a good sturdy, thick belt cures all ills.

[zeplin]

Originally Posted by TimK

Here's one that's been bugging me.

I've in the past month been carrying everywhere. Got some larger shirts and have no problems carrying an officer-sized 1911 around town. At work where the dress code is tighter I just pocket-carry the P3AT. My problem is the 1911.

When using the restroom, I'm forced to leave my belt buckled when standing. Not a big problem, but I was used to undoing the fly before. When sitting, on the other hand, I find I have to unholster and set my pistol down, else when drawing up my pants I can drop the darn thing. Once in the pot! That was an unfun introduction to fully breaking down the 1911 for cleaning.

Is unholstering what's normally done? Is my Desantis Cozy Partner not offering enough retention? I can tighten it up, but this is the only situation where I have trouble keeping the pistol in place. Does it just take more practice?

LOLOL!!!!!!! That's funny Tim. Can you imagine what would have happened if you cracked the pot?

I carry a PT111 and I just unholster it and set it on top of the toilet paper holder before I do anything else. When I'm done and have my belt buckled I reholster.

[jwise]

Here's my P7M8 in a Jim Burke holster:

[jwise]

I've talked about this before, but here it goes again. This is a re-posting of a thread I started entitled "Boot Gun."

A lot of young officers ask "how do you carry off-duty?" There are a lot of answers to this question, and it is mostly subjective. When I talk to a young officer (or someone new to concealed carrying in general), my first advice is "carry a gun." Once that first piece of advice is taken to heart, we start looking at the different methods that others employ.

Strong side hip:

This is my preferred method, and is the way I would recommend others to carry. It gives you the means to carry large-frame handguns, and is lightning fast to deploy. This method requires an untucked shirt, which is not always sociably acceptable. (There are tuckable holsters, but this changes the dynamics, and makes the carry method less advantageous.)

Pocket:

This is my second favorite carry method, as it gives you a VERY fast draw (from loose fitting pants pockets, not from jeans!), and you can have your hand actually ON your pistol without giving yourself away. The disadvantage is that it limits you to small (to very small) handguns. Hence the term, "pocket pistols." It was once true that this option also limited you to small calibers. But this is no longer true now that Kahr is making 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP handguns in very small frames. I've been carrying a 9mm Kahr PM9 in my front pocket for some time, and I absolutely love it!

I just recently acquired the Kahr, so before that, I carried a Kel-Tec P32 in my front pocket. While it is an acceptable firearm once it has been tested (and mine was), it is only an itty-bitty .32acp, and I'd rather have something a bit more formidable.

Boot Gun:

My desire was to be able to be well-armed while wearing "Sunday" clothes, or when wearing a suit, or in general, pants and a tucked-in shirt. I wasn't comfortable with only carrying the pocket pistol, but wanted something more.

Enter, the BOOT GUN! Now, I don't know how it is where YOU live, but I live in TEXAS. We wear boots, and are proud of it. I've got a few pairs...



The idea was to be able to carry a formidable handgun in my boot, allowing me access to something that would "fill my hands", but ALSO carry my pocket pistol, in case I needed the quick access. Drawing from your boot/ankle is not fast, but it does offer a solution when you need more gun.

While my Justin distressed leather boots are some of my favorites, I needed a pair of boots that I could wear with slacks, or a suit. After a very favorable pistol transaction, I had the money to buy what I'd always wanted.

Black Alligator...



Now, they didn't COME this way. I had to take them to a local boot and shoe repair shop, and ask if they could do a special project for me. When I started telling him my request, he interrupted me by explaining that he had made several custom boot holsters for Texas Rangers, and knew precisely what to do. He told me to bring him the gun I planned to carry, and to trust him.

I brought him my Taurus 617t, and in no time at all, he measured the gun and sent me on my way.



You might ask, "why that handgun?" Well, the Taurus 617t is a .357mag for one, secondly it is Titanium (which makes it easier to carry all day long), and lastly...



It holds 7 rounds. Not quite a "high-capacity" handgun, but it sure beats the 5 rounds of .38spl most carry.

When I got the boot back, he had cut it down to "roper" height, re-mounted the boot pulls, and had sewn in the custom holster.



He cut it down in order to make for an easier draw. The "western" boot height is pretty tall, and it would be difficult to quickly pull up your pants' leg high enough to get at it, and it would make the barrel (the "tall" part of a boot is called the "barrel") weaker, having to support all the weight so high up. All in all, he's a genius... Now, the butt of the gun was only as high as the top of the original boot itself.




While I don't recommend my boot/pocket combo-carry method in place of strong side hip, if you find yourself in need of an alternative on occasion, it's something to think about...

[jwise]

Here is a picture showing the relative size differences between the Glock 21, Glock 30, Glock 26, Kahr PM9 and Kel-Tec P32.

[HEDP]

Good thread.