Legal in NY?

[mcsexplorer]

I was searcing online and found a 6" long nightstick keychain.The website says its totally legal but Im just curious if it trully is?


thanks

[mcsexplorer]

http://firestoreonline.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=2089



Thats the direct link to it so you can see what I mean

[EMTFirefighter]

Originally Posted by mcsexplorer

http://firestoreonline.com/index.as...ROD&ProdID=2089



Thats the direct link to it so you can see what I mean

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[mcsexplorer]

Hmmm,well anyway its a kubaton,are those legal in NY?

[EMTFirefighter]

Originally Posted by mcsexplorer

Hmmm,well anyway its a kubaton,are those legal in NY?

I think they are. It's just a wooden or plastic stick about 6" long.

Don't take my word on that though, I'm no legal eagle.

[mcsexplorer]

Thanks,wish I had a definate answer...

[Troophopeful]

MCSExplorer

I wouldn't even bother thinking of purchasing it if i were you. Say you get stopped for some reason and that little 'keychain" is found in your person in the good ole state of ny. It may just qualify as a "deadly weapon" according to NYS Penal Law. Go to

www.senate.state.ny.us
on the left hand side of the screen click on "bills and laws"

on the bottom portion of your screen select "Laws of New York"

From the long list select PEN (Penal Law).

Under Article 10 sub-section 12 you will find something that reads like this

12. "Deadly Weapon" means any loaded weapon from which a shot, readily capable of producing death or other serious physical injury, may be discharged, or a switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckles, dagger, BILLY, BLACKJACK, or metal knuckles.

The dictionary describes a billy as follows:

1. A billy Club (club)
2. A short stout club used primarily by policemen (syn: truncheon, nightstick, billystick, billy club).

So to be on the safe side don't even bother.

[winq]

A 6 in kubaton on a key chain? matching it to the definition of CPW4th, is pushing it just a little. Billy or blackjack? some cop would really have to have hard on for you to make a charge. But anything is possible.

[mark7777]

you have to keep in mind NY has some of the toughest laws regarding weapons in the entire country.


what would be legal in most states is pretty much not legal in NY

[mcsexplorer]

Alright I didnt order it thanks ghys.

[AmericanMan]

That would be a good idea! What is a 14 -year old in 8th grade needing that for?

[EMTFirefighter]

Originally Posted by Troophopeful

MCSExplorer

I wouldn't even bother thinking of purchasing it if i were you. Say you get stopped for some reason and that little 'keychain" is found in your person in the good ole state of ny. It may just qualify as a "deadly weapon" according to NYS Penal Law. Go to

www.senate.state.ny.us
on the left hand side of the screen click on "bills and laws"

on the bottom portion of your screen select "Laws of New York"

From the long list select PEN (Penal Law).

Under Article 10 sub-section 12 you will find something that reads like this

12. "Deadly Weapon" means any loaded weapon from which a shot, readily capable of producing death or other serious physical injury, may be discharged, or a switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckles, dagger, BILLY, BLACKJACK, or metal knuckles.

The dictionary describes a billy as follows:

1. A billy Club (club)
2. A short stout club used primarily by policemen (syn: truncheon, nightstick, billystick, billy club).

So to be on the safe side don't even bother.

It's a kubaton. There's no way anyone would mistake it for a nightstick or billy club.

I say he should buy it if he wants. Shouldn't have any trouble with it. IF those are illegal, then every hall pass a teacher gave me in high school was a deadly weapon.

[SlowDownThere]

He posted this question elsewhere too. I answered there.

Yes, it's possesion is legal. Use it to cause an injury, and it's a weapon, however. That jumps assault 3rd (a misd) up to assault 2nd (a felony).

[Shield22]

Don't bother even buying that kubaton. Get a bottle opener for a key chain. I have, will and will continue to charge people for possession of any item that fits in the CPW 4th statute. Don't be a buff, get educated!

[Troophopeful]

I agree with your statement about anything being possible on this one. Call it paranoid but i would just avoid it. Here's a photo of what the item in question. http://firestoreonline.com/ProductIm....DEF6.full.jpg

Originally Posted by winq

A 6 in kubaton on a key chain? matching it to the definition of CPW4th, is pushing it just a little. Billy or blackjack? some cop would really have to have hard on for you to make a charge. But anything is possible.

[mcsexplorer]

Thanks everyone and thanks SLowdownthere for the definate answer.

[AmericanMan]

Originally Posted by Troophopeful

I agree with your statement about anything being possible on this one. Call it paranoid but i would just avoid it. Here's a photo of what the item in question. http://firestoreonline.com/ProductIm....DEF6.full.jpg

10-4 on that. Why even risk purchasing something like that especially if you are questioning its legality. No offense, but there is no need for a 14 year old to have one of these.

[EMTFirefighter]

Originally Posted by Shield22

Don't bother even buying that kubaton. Get a bottle opener for a key chain. I have, will and will continue to charge people for possession of any item that fits in the CPW 4th statute. Don't be a buff, get educated!

You don't have anything better to do with your time than write up every tiny stick as CPW 4th? Crime is THAT LOW in your patrol area that your agency has the time and resources to commit to such BS arrests?

[Shield22]

Originally Posted by EMTFirefighter

You don't have anything better to do with your time than write up every tiny stick as CPW 4th? Crime is THAT LOW in your patrol area that your agency has the time and resources to commit to such BS arrests?

Let's see here, SON, an educated person would explain to you that crime works in a pyramid. Felonies (yes those more serious crimes that do occur in my jurisdiction everyday) being at the top, misdemeanors (which CPW 4th is) in the middle and violation/infractions on the bottom. If, us pro-active, don't have anything better to do with our time cops, don't ENFORCE THE LAW, the crime pyramid grows at an alarming rate. If we do our jobs, pick on what you call the BS stuff....crime falls.

You probably don't remember the days when a cop would slap a kid upside the head for cursing then take him home to his parents and dad would beat his butt some more.....oh yeah, I remember them, they were called the good old days. Now we have foul mouthed punks, who want to be GANSTERS, and have no respect for society, let alone law enforcement.

Do what you want, live how you want, just don't cry when you reap the consequences

[EMTFirefighter]

Originally Posted by Shield22

Let's see here, SON, an educated person would explain to you that crime works in a pyramid. Felonies (yes those more serious crimes that do occur in my jurisdiction everyday) being at the top, misdemeanors (which CPW 4th is) in the middle and violation/infractions on the bottom. If, us pro-active, don't have anything better to do with our time cops, don't ENFORCE THE LAW, the crime pyramid grows at an alarming rate. If we do our jobs, pick on what you call the BS stuff....crime falls.

You probably don't remember the days when a cop would slap a kid upside the head for cursing then take him home to his parents and dad would beat his butt some more.....oh yeah, I remember them, they were called the good old days. Now we have foul mouthed punks, who want to be GANSTERS, and have no respect for society, let alone law enforcement.

Do what you want, live how you want, just don't cry when you reap the consequences

Ever heard of "spirit of the law?" The spirit of CPW 4th does not include making arrests for a 6" wooden or plastic KEYCHAIN. You'd be better served keeping the spirit of the law in mind while making arrests. It works for me all the time.

Now, if the person has one and they're being a dick with it - hitting people, waving it around or if it's found subsequent to an arrest for something else or used as a way to search and detain be my guest. But to say that you're going to see someone with a Kubaton walking around and write them up for CPW 4th because crime works up (which is true), that just shows you're a damn fool who really doesn't understand the crime theories he speaks of.

I don't appreciate being called "Son," by the way. I'm not your son, you're not my father (thank Christ).

[Shield22]

Originally Posted by EMTFirefighter

Ever heard of "spirit of the law?" The spirit of CPW 4th does not include making arrests for a 6" wooden or plastic KEYCHAIN. You'd be better served keeping the spirit of the law in mind while making arrests. It works for me all the time.

I don't appreciate being called "Son," by the way. I'm not your son, you're not my father (thank Christ).

Your not a cop, so the spirit of the law does not apply to you....first off...and secondly....SON, here is why a KUBATON is not a keychain, but a weapon, if you stick a keyring on the butt of your gun, thats a weapon too, not a key chain.....read the AD below

A FISTFUL OF DYNAMITE "The Kubotan"
By Andrew Breen
What is the most common martial arts weapon in the united States? While weapons such as the PR-24 and extension baton have found growing acceptance in law enforcement circles, what about the general population? Undoubtedly, the most popular, and quite possible the most versatile personal defense weapon is the Kubotan. Carried by thousands of men and women, martial artists and non-practitioners alike, the Kubotan was developed by Shihan Tak Kubota, who based his invention upon the principles of the weapon than the key ring it often serves as, it retains all the striking and joint locking capabilities of the yawara stick.

A Karate oriented practitioner may prefer striking techniques, utilizing the ends of the Kubotan for painful blows to soft tissue areas or disabling blows to an opponent's vital points. Conversely, a JuJitsu or Aikido stylist may feel more comfortable with hooking, trapping, and pain compliance techniques, using the leverage and intense pain generated by the Kubotan to immobilize an adversary's limbs. Even for those without experience in a martial art, the Kubotan provides an economical and easily learned method of self-protection.

The most basic applications involve striking or poking vulnerable areas of the body with the Kubotan. generally speaking, swinging strikes work better against bony surfaces while fleshy areas are more susceptible to pokes and jabs with the ends of the Kubotan. With this concept in mind, a person avoids the confusion and frustration of trying to remember specific strikes for specific targets. Instead, one simply remembers to strike bones and poke nerve centers and pressure points. The Kubotan greatly intensifies the destructive power of any blow. Consequently, it is not necessary to waste time or miss an opportunity by trying to be overly precise. It is better to react naturally. For example, the fundamental objective of striking the arm may entail hitting the elbow; but it can also mean hitting the wrist, back of the hand, or the knuckles. There are many worthy targets aside from the arm. The shin, hip bone, collarbone, ankle, and kneecap are all desirable targets. A sharp crack to a bony area will prompt an assailant to discontinue his attack. A harder, well placed blow can easily break bones--especially if the force of the blow is not diminished by clothing.

Kubotan strikes are most effective at medium range such as when an assailant reaches out to grab or push his victim. The extending limb can be disabled with a quick, snapping strike. The tactic also works against a punch or kick. When the opponent attacks, move away and meet his technique with a quick flick of the Kubotan. the blow does not have to be perfect; since the nerves are so close to the surface of most bony areas, even a glancing blow will inflict enough pain to make your attacker regret his actions.

If an attacker has already managed to grab onto an individual, he or she can break the hold by pressing or poking the Kubotan into whatever target presents itself. Although one's movements are restricted when caught in a headlock, bearhug, or choke, Sensei Freedman recommends jamming the tip into whatever part of the attacker's anatomy that you can reach. "There are no wrong movements; make a technique work from the position you find yourself in," counsels Freedman. Accordingly, a hard thrust with the Kubotan to the kidneys, ribs, or sternum can devastate an attacker and damage internal organs.

Since there are such a wide variety of ways to use the Kubotan, there is no one correct way to hold the weapon. Different strikes require different grips and much depends upon an individual's personal preferences. According to Kubotan Instructor Sensei Freedman, how one holds the Kubotan depends entirely upon the situation. "If you're pinned from behind, you might want to hold it like an icepick to stab backwards. Another option for poking is to place the kubotan loosely so that it can slide through the hand." Freedman also stresses using not only the Kubotan itself but the keys that are usually attached. "You can hold onto the keys that are usually attached. "You can hold onto the keys and swing the Kubotan; or you can grip the Kubotan and swing the keys. You can also hold the Kubotan and drive the keys into an attacker's face."

For those proficient in martial arts that emphasize grappling and joint locks, the Kubotan provides added leverage. Wrist locks, arm bars, come-alongs, chokes, and leg locks instantly become more agonizing with the Kubotan. The Kubotan can be used to dig into the wrist or elbow joint. Similarly, a captured leg can immobilized with grinding pressure to the ankle or knee. In life threatening circumstances, the Kubotan can intensify choking techniques and, if need be, crush an assailant's trachea. Indeed, nearly all joint locking techniques common to Jujutsu and Aiki-Jutsu become easier to apply with the Kubotan. The weapon's rigidity makes it much more resistant to an opponent's efforts to power out a hold or lock. Obviously, a fundamental knowledge of anatomy and the body's lever points are necessary to make these techniques work-with or without a Kubotan. However, for those who have such a knowledge, the Kubotan reinforces these techniques and makes them more disabling.

The Kubotan is also valuable for snagging limbs before or after applying a striking technique. By holding the weapon with several inches protruding, you can hook a part of the attacker's body with the Kubotan and then follow up with an immediate strike. You can reverse the process and strike first, hooking the neck or wrist to control the opponent's balance. In effect, the Kubotan enables an individual to literally lasso a foe's head, forcing it downward, backward, or to the side. A person's body will follow in the same direction that his head is being jerked, thereby making him extremely vulnerable to any number of finishing techniques.

Make no mistake, the Kubotan is not a magic wand. But it is one of the few conceivable martial arts weapons that is legal and entirely unregulated. There is a reason, of course. Despite its popularity among martial artists, to most people, the Kubotan is little more than a nondescript key ring. Even for those in the martial arts and law enforcement communities who recognize its potential, the Kubotan does not invoke the unsavory connotations and legal difficulties of many other edged and impact weapons. While the Kubotan is not particularly intimidating, like its ancestor, the yawaram, it remains a superbly versatile instruments for self defense. Although it requires a modest amount of training to develop competence, in the right hands, the Kubotan truly becomes a fistful of dynamite.

[EMTFirefighter]

Originally Posted by Shield22

Your not a cop, so the spirit of the law does not apply to you....first off...and secondly....SON, here is why a KUBATON is not a keychain, but a weapon, if you stick a keyring on the butt of your gun, thats a weapon too, not a key chain.....read the AD below

Look how upset you're getting, it's humorous really. I don't need an article to tell me what a Kubaton is (BTW, that's some article. They can't even spell the name of the weapon they're talking about properly) and you're right I'm not a cop.

[Shield22]

Originally Posted by EMTFirefighter

Look how upset you're getting, it's humorous really. I don't need an article to tell me what a Kubaton is (BTW, that's some article. They can't even spell the name of the weapon they're talking about properly) and you're right I'm not a cop, I'm a peace officer. I've made arrests for CPW 4th among many other things, always with the spirit of the law in mind.

You might not care who you **** off, I do. We work in completely different environments.

Trust me, I'm not upset...my job is not to care who i **** off, but to enforce the law, you on the other hand do have to care....its the nature of your beast.

[aikido kid]

I think shield22 said it best. KUBATON = not a good idea.

if you want self protection, get a cell phone to call the cops with