Off-Duty Probation officer Concealed carry

[Carlson18]

Do other Deputy Probation Officers carry off-duty? According to 12027 PC Peace Officers are exempt from needing a CCW. Just curious as to what Police Officers think about this.

[L-1]

Over the years there have been several ****ing contests over this and I believe it was finally settled in court. The last I heard (and it's been several years so things could have changed) - probation officers who are designated as peace officers may only carry on duty if authorized to do so by their agency. However, they may carry off duty with or without permission.

I had a friend who was a probation officer with an agency that prohibited their personnel from being armed while on duty. She jokingly told me at start of watch, every one went to their lockers to disarm themselves for duty. At end of watch they went back to the locker rooms to arm themselves for the trip home.

In this matter, the court ruled that an employing probation agency had the right to regulate its officers' on duty conduct (such as prohibiting their carrying weapons). However, the court also ruled that the agency had no right to prohibit off duty carry. The logic here was that the right to carry was granted by an act of the legislature and a goverment agency does not have the right to administratively deny its employees rights already granted them as a matter of law.

[Wyatt Earp]

Ventura County, Ca. Probation Officers cannot carry at all.

[Carlson18]

There are 2 units in Ventura County that are armed. Also, check 12027PC on the law on who is allowed to carry without a permit.

[Bodie]

Damn good idea if you ask me

[Carlson18]

What's a good idea?

[jdlong]

I'm a Probation Officer in Northern California. Our entire department is armed, Glock 22 .40's. I'm simply amazed that there is still a debate whether Probation Officers should be armed or not. Are you kidding me?? Last time I checked, EVERY PERSON I COME IN CONTACT WITH IS A CONVICTED FELON...many are past parolee's that have re-offended and for some ridiculous reason have been placed on probation again. Every home I visit I've come across what we call here the "3 for 1" deal. I come across two unknown probationers or parolee's that I had no idea were in the home. Who knows if they're a parolee at large looking at going back for a long time. They have no idea I might be doing just a routine, "how are things going?" visit with my probationer. How many of our clients haven't slept for 7 days when we visit due to their current "tweak" run with meth?? Any danger there??
Anyway, I'll stop ranting and raving. I'm just amazed that departments are choosing to send their officers out in the field unarmed. I'm armed from the moment I step out my front door to the moment I get home...and off-duty. I'm not a gung-ho, cowboy officer either...I carry concealed, I treat my probationers with respect...I just want to go home to my family every night. Regarding off-duty carry, it's up to your department Chief. Considering Probation Officers have the power and repsonsibility to recommend and send defendants to prison, I'm a firm believer in off-duty carry as well. I don't want to be out for dinner with my wife and run into a parolee that has had 10 years to think about the Probation Officer that sent him to prison...if you know what I mean. I can walk without eyes behind my back in my community due to how I treat probationers...but the reality is we work with the worst of the worst...ALL THE TIME.

Be safe out there. Sorry for the long response. I just think the arming of P.O.'s is a no-brainer.

jdlong

[jdlong]

Originally Posted by kaiden

Some counties will allow probation officers to be armed.....while others are very strict. But, a law passed in CA that all Arson Investigators can CCW. Hmmmm I didn't know "fire" could shoot back...

I attended a training class up in San Luis Obispo- Advance officer Training. There were 35 Arson investigators, some had never fired or handle a gun before. They came in with their issued...Glock .40 caliber, brand new right out of the box. Brand spanking new.....

In my opinion....all probation and parole officers should be packing at all times....."mandatory" God bless the ones that are not authorized to carry.

"In god we trust," the rest we run NCIC.

No doubt about it...God bless any officer (Probation, Parole, etc.) that works with our "gems of society" unarmed!! As I said in my first post, I'm simply amazed that there are Probation Departments in our nation that are choosing NOT TO ARM their P.O.'s!! Last time I checked, I enter the homes and serve warrants on convicted felons and parolees daily. 100% of my contacts are with felons...many with 148 and 242 history. You've got to be NUTS to execute a search, warrant, etc. on a convicted felon or parolee's home (a.k.a trailer) unarmed!! Lord knows who else you'll run into as well. We always come across the "mystery parolee" or probationer in the back room as we clear the house!

I'm armed from the moment I leave my house to the moment I get home...and off-duty. I'm also very lucky to work closely with my fellow S.O. Deputies and City Officers regularly. I wonder if they'd be willing to go 10-15 with one of my felons UNARMED???!!!! Crazy stuff. Hope Probation's "Top Brass" wake up and smell the coffee. BE SAFE. Thanks for the reply.

[Wyatt Earp]

Originally Posted by Carlson18

There are 2 units in Ventura County that are armed. Also, check 12027PC on the law on who is allowed to carry without a permit.

They all should be.

[reuters]

It's ridiculous that probation officers do not to carry firearms. I used to volunteer at the probation dept, and I frequently went out in the field with unarmed PO's to meet with spousal battery offenders. The bottom line is this...if they beat up their wives/girlfriends/children, I'm sure as hell they won't hesitate to assault or kill a peace officer. The sad part is, most agencies are trying to cut costs, which is one of the reasons why they are unarmed. The PO's I knew said they would be happy with even a taser...just something more than a can of mace. They also didn't have radios and a lot of the probationers lived out in the boonies where cell phone coverage was scarce. I don't know how they did it, and seeing it first hand made me really respect those PO's.

[sergeantloau]

Now in Los Angeles County, there are a select number of Probation personnel carry. Whether or not they are part of some special unit I am not sure. There was talk about whether their Chief would approve, but that was yet to be determined. Parole agents I am sure carry but then again, I havent seen any since Ive been on.

I believe that being armed while executing your position is important. Its not only for the safety of the personnel, but also for the members of the public. That is why the rest of us are armed. Those that work for city or county agencies, and specialized departments as well. I look at it this way....school police officers carry and come in contact with an array of people that may or may not pose a threat...probation, and parole personnel come in contact with known and proven personnel everyday. So that should justify that these personnel carrying.

Obviously they should adhere to strict standards like any other agency, but in the short probation and parole personnel should carry on duty, not just off.

Be safe all.

[jdlong]

Originally Posted by sergeantloau

Now in Los Angeles County, there are a select number of Probation personnel carry. Whether or not they are part of some special unit I am not sure. There was talk about whether their Chief would approve, but that was yet to be determined. Parole agents I am sure carry but then again, I havent seen any since Ive been on.

I believe that being armed while executing your position is important. Its not only for the safety of the personnel, but also for the members of the public. That is why the rest of us are armed. Those that work for city or county agencies, and specialized departments as well. I look at it this way....school police officers carry and come in contact with an array of people that may or may not pose a threat...probation, and parole personnel come in contact with known and proven personnel everyday. So that should justify that these personnel carrying.

Obviously they should adhere to strict standards like any other agency, but in the short probation and parole personnel should carry on duty, not just off.

Be safe all.

Well stated. As I said in my initial post, I'm simply amazed that a debate even exists regarding probation officers being armed. You couldn't pay me enough to enter the homes of my felons and parolees unarmed!! Whether it's a routine probation visit or a high risk search with the intent of going 10-15...I'm armed. Of course, we always run into a few "suprise" felons during searches as well (they just seem to appear in the back bedrooms as we're clearing a house). The reality is that probation officers contacts are with felons and parolees 100% of the time. Every one of our field contacts brings along high officer safety risk. I carry off-duty as well. I don't like the idea of some dirtbag having 10 years in prison to think about the P.O. that sent him there!! Our Probation Department is very fortunate to have a GREAT working partnership with our S.O. and local PD's as well. We rarely execute a high risk search or warrant service without our fellow brothers by our side. It's too bad more Probation Departments don't partner with local agencies. It's a great relationship. The opporunity to share intel is great. In addition, our local agencies love it when they find out a subject is on active probation...no PC or paper needed to make entry. The reality is that we all work with the same group of offenders.

Be safe.

[richjorg]

Originally Posted by sergeantloau

Parole agents I am sure carry but then again, I havent seen any since Ive been on.

They carry.

[PO2Serve]

LA County Probation Dept. does authorize specific Specialized Units to carry firearms. These units are assigned to warrant service, probation searches and other prob. related field activities. They also receive their training through the Sheriff's Academy. These units generally do not work alone and work with local PD's and the local SD. Unlike, parole not all PO's are armed(although they should be).

Unfortunately, there are many probation depts. that continue to send their DPO's out into the streets with nothing more than a cellphone and mace!!! doesn't make much sense when attacks on our fellow peace officers is on the rise. Jus' my two cents...

[sgttom]

Originally Posted by Wyatt Earp

They all should be.

agreed...........

[jnojr]

Does San Diego County arm their DPOs?

[jdlong]

Originally Posted by jnojr

Does San Diego County arm their DPOs?

Probation Officer here in Northern California. Yes, San Diego County Probation Department arms their DPO's. I believe it's optional for their officers. Last time I checked, they had about 100 armed DPO's. As I mentioned in past posts...it's INSANE that some departments aren't arming their DPO's. You couldn't pay me enough to enter the home (a.k.a. trailer) of a convicted felon to conduct a search and go 10-15 unarmed. Every contact we make in Probation is with a dirtbag. We don't respond to any other calls. Our officer safety risk is high every time we step foot into the field...and in the office. I can't count how many times I've visited a home to make a "routine" check on a felon and have come across several "mystery" parolees or probationers in back rooms. We're fortunate up here to work daily with our S.O. and PD brothers. I'm with fellow DPO's and S.O./PD brothers on every search and warrant service. They love working with us as well. They lick their chops when they find out a dirtbag is on felony probation with full search and seizure. No need for the Judge to sign to make entry!! It's great to see the face of a probationer when the team makes entry.

[gman183]

Per A.G. Ruling 70, DPO's can not be restricted from carrying off duty.

It states that DPO's have full Peace Officer powers on duty, which includes status and authority.

Off-duty DPO's have 24 hour status, but not the authority to effect arrest (Use Peace Officer powers). Status provides the authority to carry, your good to go.

CHECK OUT THE AG RULING REGARDING DPO'S AND OFF-DUTY CARRY.

[bkema]

I think they should carry 24-7. I know the local PO's here carry both on and off.

[DOAcop38]

Thata always some legal and political B.S. L.A. Co.Probation officers have the same problem-many carry off duty;however I've seen incidents wear some of these P.Os get dimed off for less than positive contacts with other L.E. agencies and then get into trouble( The head probation Chief is scared of the Sheriffs'dept and the dist Attys' inv.unit and has a 60s "rehabilitation" mentality).For people that need a B.S. just to get the job,you'd think thatthey would be smart enough to rationally carry a firearm when dealing with their career criminal "clients"-,There are actually some stupid and conflicting authorities in the CA Penal code regarding diffrent classes of peace officers-L.A. city Park Rangers actually have to arrest FELONS on a regular basis and are peace officers under 830.31 PC,yet can only carry OC and batons,handcuffs-but they carry off duty.L.A.s'newest Dept.OPS/General Services PD have a CANNOT CARRY OFF DUTY clause in the penal code,yet are expected to patrol and make regular arrests(imagine going to court "naked" and running into the Defendant and his crew in the courts parking lot!).I know chicken **** little depts in the San Gabriel Vly that have tried to actually arrest and prosecute some of these officers and rangers when they found guns on them( The D.A. won't file on the charge though)_..........

[Five-0fromSoCal]

[( The head probation Chief is scared of the Sheriffs'dept and the dist Attys' inv.unit and has a 60s "rehabilitation" mentality).

Why is the probation Chief scared of the LASD?

[DOAcop38]

Originally Posted by Five-0fromSoCal

[( The head probation Chief is scared of the Sheriffs'dept and the dist Attys' inv.unit and has a 60s "rehabilitation" mentality).

Why is the probation Chief scared of the LASD?

- for the same reason the L.A.County Police ,bows down when dealing with LASD-fear of insulting "big brother"-But their lack of "handling business is what ****es most LASD personnel I know off,not their actual taking enforcement responsibilities! Probation seems to now try and steer away from arresting and prosecuting their "charges", and allows LASD deputies or D.A. investigators to go after the violators. The mentality- ask many NEW naive probation officers and future recruits and they'll tell you that they join probation to "help people" who have had brushes with the law.With the exception of a few gang/narco task forces locally, many P/Os follow the direction of their chief,who has been on the job too long and is still preaching that '60s liberal rehabilitation B.S.- criminals that want to change ,change themselves( and with little help!),most of the people on probation see it as a way to duck the gry bar hotel and con't their criminal activity-andf far to many active probation officers are pigeon holed into being little more than baby sitters by the Dept itself.If probation was more active it would demand a bigger budget and that would conflict with what Sheriff Baca needs for his own Dept.It would also draw more scrutiny on the Prob. dept and alot of problems would come to light.I've had family members who were P/Os and they would tell me how the Dept had a habit of shying away from alot of enforcement-the attitude was that it was better for the Deputies to be OVERWORKED and take risks with the probation violators than the P/Os themselves!And the P/Os don't get basic academy training,but a modified trng that I think doesn't fulfill what they really need to do their jobs .Part "cop" part social worker?great,but it doesn't seem to work......

[jdlong]

Originally Posted by DOAcop38

- for the same reason the L.A.County Police ,bows down when dealing with LASD-fear of insulting "big brother"-But their lack of "handling business is what ****es most LASD personnel I know off,not their actual taking enforcement responsibilities! Probation seems to now try and steer away from arresting and prosecuting their "charges", and allows LASD deputies or D.A. investigators to go after the violators. The mentality- ask many NEW naive probation officers and future recruits and they'll tell you that they join probation to "help people" who have had brushes with the law.With the exception of a few gang/narco task forces locally, many P/Os follow the direction of their chief,who has been on the job too long and is still preaching that '60s liberal rehabilitation B.S.- criminals that want to change ,change themselves( and with little help!),most of the people on probation see it as a way to duck the gry bar hotel and con't their criminal activity-andf far to many active probation officers are pigeon holed into being little more than baby sitters by the Dept itself.If probation was more active it would demand a bigger budget and that would conflict with what Sheriff Baca needs for his own Dept.It would also draw more scrutiny on the Prob. dept and alot of problems would come to light.I've had family members who were P/Os and they would tell me how the Dept had a habit of shying away from alot of enforcement-the attitude was that it was better for the Deputies to be OVERWORKED and take risks with the probation violators than the P/Os themselves!And the P/Os don't get basic academy training,but a modified trng that I think doesn't fulfill what they really need to do their jobs .Part "cop" part social worker?great,but it doesn't seem to work......

Well said. You hit it right on the head. I'm a Probation Officer here in Northern California. It's absolutely ridiculous that there are Chief Probation Officers running their county Probation Departments like Social Services. I'm very fortunate to work for a Chief that understands the reality of our job. We're armed on and off duty. I still can't believe there are P.O.'s out there in the field unarmed??? INSANE!! I mean hell, how many S.O. Deputies, P.D. Officers, or Narc Task Force Members would be willing to enter the home.....I mean trailer....of a convicted felon with 148 and 243 history with the intent to go 10-15 UNARMED??? None. It's fricking nuts. The reality is that we work with dirtbags 100% of the time. Every person we come in contact with is a convicted offender, usually felons. I'm all for helping one of my offenders get his or her life back on track if he or she is truly trying. I just do it with my vest, G22 .40 and OC...always on. There's a reason these dirtbags are on Probation. Many of my probationers are ex-parolees that for some ridiculous reason have been granted probation AGAIN!!...

We work every day with our S.O. and P.D. brothers and sisters. In fact, we're on several County Task Forces (Narc, DV). Our S.O and local P.D.'s work with us daily...because they're smart enough to realize tha well all work with the same dirtbags!! They provide us with great intel on what our Probationers are up to...and of course they lick their chops when they find out a subject is on Probation with full Search and Seizure!! No need for the judge to sign to make entry!!

I truly hope other county Probation Departments throughout the state become more pro-active in establishing partnerships with S.O.'s and PD's. Probation and local law enforcement partnerships are a no-brainer! It's too bad to hear that some big county S.O's don't consider Probation Departments worth partnering with...or vice versa. It's a win win situation.

[jerkyg]

Follow the link below and read the court case and opinon. This will clear up a lot of the questions regarding off duty carry for probation/peace officers. If you have more questions, email Jeff. He is a wealth of information.

http://ocpsu.netfirms.com/offduty.htm

Be safe.

[jdlong]

Originally Posted by jerkyg

Follow the link below and read the court case and opinon. This will clear up a lot of the questions regarding off duty carry for probation/peace officers. If you have more questions, email Jeff. He is a wealth of information.

http://ocpsu.netfirms.com/offduty.htm

Be safe.

Great link...thanks. Yeah, we've been going by the Attorney General's ruling for quite some time now. Myself and all of my fellow Probation Officers carry off-duty. Our Chief and Deputy Chief do as well. It's INSANE that there's even a thought that Probation Officers shouldn't carry on or off-duty. As I've said in prior posts, we deal with dirtbags 100% of the time. I'm armed from the moment I leave home to the moment I get home. Living and working in a rural county, I can't count how many times I've come across felons that I've hooked and booked on my days off. Usually when I'm off fishing or hiking...by myself! It's always nice to know that my Kimber is with me.

I'm still amazed that there are Probation Departments that refuse to arm their P.O.'s.!! You couldn't pay me enough to do what we do unarmed!!

I pray for those brothers that are forced to do so. I hope their local S.O. Deputies and P.D. Officers make entry first!!! We work with our local agencies daily...it's a great partnership. Be safe!