Reserve Off Duty Carry

[jmickle11]

I'm a reserve with a County Sheriff's Department. We are not required to carry off duty but it is recomended for response time to an emergency. Now here's where this gets a little strange. I work full time for a bank! Now, I work in the IT department of the bank which is in the basement behind electronic key security. I also keep my gun in a locked security safe that is in turn locked inside of my desk with myself holding the only keys. I was initially told that as long as I kept the gun locked up in this manner that there would be no problem. I tried to keep the gun well concealed, however someone complained that they saw me enter the building with my gun. I carry the gun with an inside the pants holster. Now they have changed their minds about this and don't want me to have it here. I've done some favors for the bank like arrange for someone to come from the department to do a nice security presentation. I also arrange to have officers work part time security at one of our branches recently after it was held up. I've pretty much decided not to offer the bank any more assistance relating to myself being an officer. I really do understand the concerns of the bank, however I thought that the bank could benefit from myself being an officer. Am I being unreasonable?

[Watchman]

No.

There seems to be a lack of communucation though. Talk to the manager and tell him of your concerns and thoughts.

The folks that may have felt uncomfortable with you wearing your peice may be OK with it once they learn that you are a Reserve officer.Its possible that not everyone knows that.

If that dosent work,just tell them goodby.

[hj2930]

I don't think your employer is being unreasonable. Keep the two roles seperate. If the bank wants presentations and such let their security folks take care of it. They hired you to work in IT not be a part time security consultant. I think if you leave your being a reserve at home both you and your employer will be happier.

[jmickle11]

Originally posted by hj2930
I don't think your employer is being unreasonable. Keep the two roles seperate. If the bank wants presentations and such let their security folks take care of it. They hired you to work in IT not be a part time security consultant. I think if you leave your being a reserve at home both you and your employer will be happier.

That's basically what I've done now. It seemed like a good opportunity to offer the bank free security things such as escorting the transportation of cash to other branches or ATM's. Which other banks in the area pay for armed escorts. We don't we simply send two people out the door with 50k in cash to fill an ATM machine. Anyway, I've decided not to pursue the issue any further.

[Bodie]

Go along with whatever the Bank Management says. You are an employee of the bank first and a reserve officer second. The first pays your bills.

This should no be discussed with the employer since if you make it an issue you could be fired.

[Frank Booth]

Am I being unreasonable?

Yes.

[retdetsgt]

I think you're taking yourself a little too seriously.

When I was 16 and working in a gas station, the owner came in one day and put a stub nosed .38 under the cash register. He pointed it out to me and I asked him what it was for. He replied in case I got robbed. Now I was only 16, but I told him that if someone came in with a gun and wanted anything that belonged to HIM they could have it. I was paid to pump gas, not get killed over something that wasn't even mine. Think about that.

Of course, working as a cop is different, that's what I was paid for and part of the job description. I don't blame your manager one bit. Security guards are probably paid less than you are and that's what they do. Rarely do bank robbers ever hurt anyone, that's not their objective. And the possible legal ramification resulting from someone working IT blowing some guy to kingdom come is staggering!

When I first retired, I did some bodyguard work on an on call basis. But I wore a vest and had a radio that kept me in contact with others. I turned down one job guarding some guy transporting diamonds for the reason I stated above. If someone was going to rob this guy, they would know who he was and the odds of someone getting shot (especially ME), were pretty high if I tried to protect him from the robbers. The only protection I was willing to do was that of people from disgruntled fired employees or someone else they knew that was threatening them or work for visiting celebreties. Not guard property. No property is worth the risk to me, especially someone else's!

[jmickle11]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
I think you're taking yourself a little too seriously.

Of course, working as a cop is different, that's what I was paid for and part of the job description. I don't blame your manager one bit. Security guards are probably paid less than you are and that's what they do. Rarely do bank robbers ever hurt anyone, that's not their objective. And the possible legal ramification resulting from someone working IT blowing some guy to kingdom come is staggering!

Well, points well taken. But, there's no intention of trying to stop a robbery. It's department policy not to enter any business that has the offenders still in a building. Bank policy is to let them have whatever they want. As far as escorting ATM runs that would fall under Officer presence as opposed to entering into a gun fight. We are required to have a radio and be in some official uniform when we work security details. I may take myself seriously becasue I've been through a 5 month training academy in order to become a reserve. We are sworn officers 24/7 and aren't treated any differently than full time officers.

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by jmickle11
We are sworn officers 24/7 and aren't treated any differently than full time officers.

Are you paid like the full time people or is this a hobby?

[kirch]

When I first became a PT officer, I was flush with the thought that I could carry anywhere in the state. And in one of the only states that has no CCW law, that's fairly significant. But the bloom faded from that rose pretty quickly. Carrying around a pound of metal on your hip during all waking hours got old pretty fast.

In my FT employment, I work in an office environment. The company owners are the sort that it probably wouldn't be a problem with them if I carried, as long as it was reasonably concealed. And we do a lot of work in the hunting and shooting markets, so it's not unusual to see guns around here. But I just decided it wasn't worth it. The only time I carry at my day job is if I change into my uniform here on my way to a 2nd shift at the PD.

[jmickle11]

Originally posted by retdetsgt
Are you paid like the full time people or is this a hobby?

We aren't paid. We do get paid for security details. But, it's not like a hobby for me. I'm in the full time application process right now.

[Valor55]

Originally posted by jmickle11
We aren't paid. We do get paid for security details. But, it's not like a hobby for me. I'm in the full time application process right now.

Just go with the flow at the bank and don't **** anyone off. They'll give you a great recommendation and you'll get the FT job and carry wherever and whenever you want.

[jmickle11]

Originally posted by Valor55
Just go with the flow at the bank and don't **** anyone off. They'll give you a great recommendation and you'll get the FT job and carry wherever and whenever you want.

That's the road I'm headed towards! I have told them it won't be a problem. Probably won't be an issue inside of a year anyway the way the hiring process is going. I think I've got a great chance of getting on full time!

[Joseph]

I'd just do the job I was hired for at the bank and forget the rest. Let them handle there own security and if a problem arises let someone or yourself notify the police and don't be any kind of hero. The money is insured and the banks policy is that no customers get hurt also the department. Enjoy your time when you are doing Reserve Duty.

[ptcop531]

I, too am a Reserve Deputy in Indiana. When I am working my regular, paid job, my Sheriff ID stays at home. I am not a Reserve Deputy at my regular job. It is common knowledge I am one, but I am not putting myself in a trickbag for my employer, and they are aware of that. Being a Reserve helped me get this job, but I have no intention of it helping me lose my job.
Although some people may look down on Reserves, we are well thought of at my department. Although there are a 100 merit deputies, there are only 5 Reserves. All of us have been there for a long time, and have proven ourselves as cops, albeit "hobby cops". We do not see ourselves that way, and neither do most merit deputies. As a matter of fact, they invite us to participate in all outside activities with them. They have chartered a bus to go to a St. Louis Cardinal game, and invited us to go along, and are picking up all of our expenses.
We are allowed to work as 'one man units' and are expected to take runs assigned to us, we do not just pick and choose what runs we want to take. We are required to partake in all 'in-service' training, as well as qualify with the dept. issued weapons, and take the twice yearly physical assessment. We have proven ourselves to be every bit as professional as they are, (even more so than a few of them), and have their respect, and are considered 'one of them',by most.

[Bodie]

They may tell you they will treat you no different then a sworn full time deputy but trust this. If you violate the law or cross the line at anytime you will be immediately terminated as a Reserve and you can't appeal anything. You may also be prosecuted so the Sheriff you served under can look good in public.
Yes you are and yes you will be treated differently.

[degrat38]

I'm literally a week or two away from being hired as a Reserve Deputy at a local Department. I don't know what my employers policy is on concealed carry at my full-time job. But at this point I intent to carry it with me at work because I work in close proximity to the agency. You never know who you may run into, or what could happen. So having that protection and sense of security could be nice if something did arise where I was required to act. Just wanted to know your thoughts! Thanks.

[hj2930]

Originally posted by degrat38
I'm literally a week or two away from being hired as a Reserve Deputy at a local Department. I don't know what my employers policy is on concealed carry at my full-time job. But at this point I intent to carry it with me at work because I work in close proximity to the agency. You never know who you may run into, or what could happen. So having that protection and sense of security could be nice if something did arise where I was required to act. Just wanted to know your thoughts! Thanks.

It's a prescription for disaster. The liability issues are huge for you, your employer and your agency. Unless your agency gives you 24/7 peace officer powers you are just Joe Citizen when you are off duty. So do what any good citizen would do, call the police. If you get into a misadventure with a weapon your agency will drop you like a hot rock and put as much distance between you and them as possible. And as a reserve you probably have no right of appeal since most reserves are considered at will employees. Plus every background investigator who comes around in the future will hear all the gory details.

Your employer would probably have a stroke if they knew you carried while you were acting as their employee. I'm willing to bet that they wouldn't want the liability and I'm sure their insurance company doesn't.

So if you insist on having a weapon at work I suggest that you go out and buy as much personal liability insurance as you can lay your hands on.

And don't forget the safety issues. You don't want to get shot by an officer who rolls up and sees a guy he may not recognize with a weapon.

Leave the badge and gun at home.

[Bodie]

You guys that are Reserve or Special deputies should take the position seriously but I've seen nothing but it being taken too serious.
That gun with you all the time is definately a prescription for disaster and it will be your personal disaster.

You could loose your fulltime gainful employment.
You will loose your commission and any hop you ever had of becoming a full time leo.
You will personally get sued.
The agency that granted you the commission will act as if they never knew you and will not defend you in a litigation.

[degrat38]

I understand what all of you are saying, but what if you just carry in a concealed manner like anyone else who has a license to conceal and it is not against your job rules?

[Bodie]

If you carry a gun into a civilian job it will soon be against the rules and you will be made the example of. Private employers can restrict weapons as they see fit and unless you are a full time leo entering the property for law enforcment purposes they can tell anybody to stay off.

[retdetsgt]

If carrying a gun is so important to you, it's fairly obvious why you want to be a reserve so bad.

Even if it isn't against your job rules at the moment, you shoot someone while you are under the employ of someone else, guess who is going to be liable for your actions? If a pizza delivery person who is a reserve carrys and blows someone away, the pizza company is going to be liable, not the LE agency. Even if it's a good shoot, civil courts routinely award money to the dead person's family.

I don't care who much training you get as a reserve or anything else, until you get some real time experience under your belt, you are going to be marginally adept at handling any emergency situation involving the use of guns.

[Bodie]

retdetsgt, Thanks for the back up !!!!!!
These kids with guns scare the crap out of me, we'll read where one of them gets shot or arrested out of a wrongful shoot.

[retdetsgt]

No charge. I think too many people want to be reserves for the wrong reason... Anybody that fantasizes being a hero of some sort because they carry a gun and have had a few months training are disasters waiting to happen, reserve or regular police.

Our reserves are not only not allowed to carry off duty (unless they have a separate CCW permit from the sheriff), if they are stopped by police for traffic or some other offense and identify themselves as reserves, that's it for them. They're kicked off the reserve unit. If you want to play police, that's cool, but don't think you are one and subject to the same priviliges.

[SD7]

I was a reserve deputy here in Colorado before getting hired on as a full timer with my current department.

Neither the department I was with as a reserve deputy, or my current department allow reserves, or posse members to carry off duty. They must apply for a ccw just like a normal citizen. If granted the ccw permit they are not to display the department badge off duty.

It is not because we feel the reserve deputies are any lower in standards then a full time deputy,most are very well trained, it is mainly due to the state laws,a reserve deputy is to be accopanied by a full time deputy, or another reserve deputy anytime they are on duty.

If a reserve deputy gets into a confrontation and a shooting, while not under the authority of the sheriff, he/ she is doing it as a private citizen. The sheriffs office will not cover any injury, or legal action that results from a shootout by an "off duty reserve officer" nor will there be any insurance if the reservist is injured during the "off duty" shooting.

This is just from my knowledge in the state that I am a deputy sheriff in. I have no idea about other states. You may want to read your authority statute in your own state.