Hand Gun's

[Kouts#3]

Hello All,
I just had a question about officers carrying their duty guns or any hand guns out of their State. I just wanted to get some views on how other officers would handle this situation if they stopped a officer from another state who was carrying a handgun? I will be the first to admitt that i take mine with me when i travel out of my home state of Indiana. I know some state's are against this but in this day and age with everything going on you would think that this would be apprecited by other states.

Officer Jim

[Bodie]

There currently is Federal legislation pending that Pres Bush has said he would sign that will allow active and retired police officers CCW rights in all 50 States. This in the wake of 9/11.
Currently you are subject to the laws of the state you are in but who is going to know you are CCW unless you get involved in a police incident assuning you respect the badge of others and don't speed or drive like an idiot in somone's elses area of authority.
Generally most officers if you present proper ID aren't going to aarrest you for CCW but you never know how strict a state or other department is. The Fedral Law would negate any State law that requires a CCW permit etc. Write your congress representative and tell them to support the legislation

[Kouts#3]

I just havent heard anything recent about this bill being passed, i have handled the situations just like you have replied.

Thanks,
Officer Jim

[retdetsgt]

99% of the cops you would run into wouldn't care if it was legal or not, they wouldn't sweat it. But there is always the 1% that you have to worry about that think they have to enforce every law they see broken.

[Kouts#3]

I have to agree with you 100% with that. You still have that 1% or so out there.

Thanks,
Jim

[Bodie]

Check FOP GRAND LODGE website for info on legislation

[Texas 1911]

You can also check www.copconcealedcarry.com for any updates as well. It has been stuck since 11/02. I sure wish they would hurry up and past it while they still have the votes!

[JSandi]

...and further to put to rest claims by Senator Kennedy that passage would allow people to carry concealed hand grenades (his words, not ours).

Hand grenades?!?!!??!?!

JFC!!!

WTF Is he smoking!???




What is it with DemocRATS and guns? They've been trying to disarm the public for eons and now they have problems with cops carrying across state lines while off duty?

[retired]

Originally posted by JSandi
[


What is it with DemocRATS and guns? They've been trying to disarm the public for eons and now they have problems with cops carrying across state lines while off duty?

[/b]

It isn't just democrats! There are democrats who support CCW, and republicans who don't. Remember, a politician is still a politician regardless of what party affiliation he says he is.

[Sentinel]

Well as stated there is a bill before congress that would allow just this. And as already stated it is not a democrat or republican bill because there is opposition and support on both sides of the aisle.

I find another good website for such info is packing.org. It is intended for civilians but remember, while out of your state you are a civilian.

As far as carrying I would look up the specific laws in the state you intend to visit. If you have a CCW in your home state you might be able to carry in another state under that states reciprocity law. I know that I now have a Florida CCW and as such there are numerous states that will honor it.

And while I do agree with someone else that said that 99% of cops won't bother you carrying you have to think about two things.
1. What about that other 1%?
2. What if you end up having to actually use your gun? Then the fact that another officer won't arrest you doesn't matter. It now becomes a matter of whether the DA of that place will bother you. And depending on the circumstances of the shooting he might want to go after you big time.

So if you decide to carry in a place where you are not technically allowed you have to ask yourself one question... do I feel lucky? (OK, cheap Eastwood rip off but quite funny don't you think?)

Example:
99.9999% of NYC cops would not bother you for carrying even though it is 100% illegal for anyone to carry a gun in NY. I don't think they even like cops having guns But if your gun goes off and some innocent politically hooked up person gets hits with a stray round, you are going to do hard time bud because technically you were carrying an illegal firearm.

[Invisiblecop]

BODIE

The legislation you refer to started with the Law Enforcement Alliance Of America or LEAA. It's currently awaiting passage. Bill Nowicki a retired Police Officer and I believe Co-author of the Bill brought it to Washington several years ago. It missed ratification last time by 3 votes! This time it's very near passing. If it doesn't pass this time it dies.

You can view the Bill in it's entirety at the following site :

This is the OFFICIAL SITE for H.R.218!

http://www.leaa.org - The Bill is H.R.218

The LEAA is an organization that supports firearms and law enforcement personell nationwide. They were instrumental in assisting CCW for Ohio. Defending Cincinnati Officers in the media, Public Education, etc.

I've been a Lifetime Member for over 10 years and I'm extremely active in supporting H.R. 218.

Sentinel

I'd rethink you're statement concerning N.Y.P.D. not caring if you're armed. Moreover since 9-11 tings have tightened drastically. Politics is the issue when it comes to firearms.

I'm a recently retired officer, former N.Y.C. Firearms Instructor and N.R.A. Instructor. I've been extremely active in "familiarizing" officers here in the city with H.R.218 More than 95% are SUPPOTIVE! Many would welcome the "freedom" to carry interstate while on vacation. You never know what you'll encounter while just vacationing. I'm speaking in terms of personal safety only. I'm not referring to the "hot dogs."

The F.O.P. was introduced to H.R. 218 via the LEAA. Many L.E.O.'s believe the F.O.P. drafted the Bill which is not correct.

The issue of Guns has been a Political Hot Potato since JFK's assasination in November 1963. The Regan -Brady shooting fueled the fires even more. Politicians sing the songs their supporters want to hear. If they don't the campaign /war chests will dry up!

[retired]

I'm opposed to the bill.

[flatbadge]

That legislation has been pending on one form or another for years.

And

I am not opposed to the bill.

[Garbage Man]

Originally posted by retired
I'm opposed to the bill.

Ok, why?

[Texas 1911]

I second the question........WHY????

[Invisiblecop]

Some feel that they don't wish to get involved in off duty incidents or anything post retirement. I can understand this to a degree. The degree is "anyone" can become a victim of violence and choosing not to "defend yourself" is foolish.

Others feel the Government or State need not "intervene" in this matter. As an Advocate and a Lifetime Member of LEAA I heard the "gamut" of reasons.

**Note** Bill H.R. 218 will "die" if not passed this year! Your support is urgently needed! Contact : http://www.leaa.org
for more information. This is the Original Site.

[retired]

Originally posted by Garbage Man
Ok, why?

Because I don't believe that the federal government should be intruding into a states right! Whenever the federal government gets involved with the states, there are always strings attached. Quite frankly there are some jurisdictions that have "cop" that shouldn't be carrying a gun, and many of them are strictly appointed. The standards in one state differ from another.

If the state of X doesn't wish to recognize state Y, that is their choice, not the choice of the federal Gestapo!

Perhaps if we had just one national federal police force it would solve the problem. You know, like the natonal police force in Nazi Germany.

[retired]

Originally posted by Invisiblecop
Some feel that they don't wish to get involved in off duty incidents or anything post retirement. I can understand this to a degree. The degree is "anyone" can become a victim of violence and choosing not to "defend yourself" is foolish.

Others feel the Government or State need not "intervene" in this matter. As an Advocate and a Lifetime Member of LEAA I heard the "gamut" of reasons.

**Note** Bill H.R. 218 will "die" if not passed this year! Your support is urgently needed! Contact : http://www.leaa.org
for more information. This is the Original Site.

If it will make you feel better, I have written to all of my representaives asking them to vote no on the bill.

[Deputy757]

[quote]Originally posted by retired
Because I don't believe that the federal government should be intruding into a states right! Whenever the federal government gets involved with the states, there are always strings attached. Quite frankly there are some jurisdictions that have "cop" that shouldn't be carrying a gun, and many of them are strictly appointed. The standards in one state differ from another.
I know what you mean about wanting lesser federal gov't involvement, but this particular issue is already addressed in the Constitution in Article 4. States are to give "full faith and credit....to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state."
Section 2 goes on to say that "citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states." This is why we can drive in all 50 states without having to take their tests. I don't think it's unreasonable to extend this to accepting the LE certification of officers from other states. Yes, of course there are places where they employ poor examples of law enforcement. Among them are NYPD, LAPD, Detroit, Chicago...you name it. There are always going to be the bad apples but they are an extremely small percentage. If and when this bill passes, if one of these officers abuses the privilege it provides for, then deal with them then the way you deal with them now when they f*** up!
I personally will ask my congressmen to vote yes as I've been a supporter (and LEAA member) for many years.

[Invisiblecop]

Deputy757

I'm lost re: NY, Chicago, LAPD, employ "poor examples of Law enforcement. Could you clarify.



retired
I know your position. I made no reference to your position. Whatever you choose to do is your own business.

[j706]

Yes, of course there are places where they employ poor examples of law enforcement. Among them are NYPD, LAPD, Detroit, Chicago...you name it.


Oh boy, I knew that would be a opened can of worms !!

[Sentinel]

Originally posted by Deputy757
I know what you mean about wanting lesser federal gov't involvement, but this particular issue is already addressed in the Constitution in Article 4. States are to give "full faith and credit....to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state."
Section 2 goes on to say that "citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states." This is why we can drive in all 50 states without having to take their tests.

I agree with the above completely. That is why I don't have to get married again every state I visit as they accept my marriage license, drivers license, etc... from NY. Why not my gun permit?

Originally posted by Deputy757
I don't think it's unreasonable to extend this to accepting the LE certification of officers from other states.

This I disagree with. This legislation is not mandating that other states accept your LE certification. You will still have no LE powers in that other state. All it is saying is that you will be allowed to carry a firearm since you are qualified to carry a firearm. No LE powers will be extended or carried over from your home state.

Originally posted by Deputy757
Yes, of course there are places where they employ poor examples of law enforcement. Among them are NYPD, LAPD, Detroit, Chicago...you name it. There are always going to be the bad apples but they are an extremely small percentage. If and when this bill passes, if one of these officers abuses the privilege it provides for, then deal with them then the way you deal with them now when they f*** up!
I personally will ask my congressmen to vote yes as I've been a supporter (and LEAA member) for many years.

Now this I totally disagree with. You must be joking right? The major metropolitan departments have much higher standards and are much more difficult to get into then smaller less equipped departments. Not that I don't think that this should not apply to them as well but if you are trying to say that large metro PDs have lower standards than a small 2 man part time PD you are dreaming. I know that some small departments in NY and here in FL have minimal qualifications at best and after very little training and background checking you can call yourself a police officer.

[retdetsgt]

Originally posted by Sentinel
Not that I don't think that this should not apply to them as well but if you are trying to say that large metro PDs have lower standards than a small 2 man part time PD you are dreaming. I know that some small departments in NY and here in FL have minimal qualifications at best and after very little training and background checking you can call yourself a police officer.

No kidding! Oregon requires all cops to attend a state academy and not be convicted of a felony or certain misdemeanors. That's it.

We have a bunch of little depts with less than 5 or 6 officers that hire people no one else would touch. When I was working, every so often one of the denizens of these little towns would come in and do a crime or two. When I went out to contact them, I usually stopped by the local dept. as a courtesy to let them know I was there and tell them who I was contacting, where, etc. Boy, did I come across some doozies! I mean the cops, not the bad guys.

In one instance, they had a detective, (one) who went with me. The rape suspect wasn't at home so I asked him to call me if he sees the guy's car there. I didn't have a warrant, but I was going to bust him anyway. I told the cop that. The "detective" called me the next day and told he say the guy's car at home and stopped by told him I was looking for him. Not surprisingly, the suspect headed for the tall uncut. The next call I got was from his lawyer who told me not to talk to him.

I knew the "detective" personally. He used to be a security guard at a mall that was near my district when I was in uniform. This story isn't atypical of what we continually ran into in some of these places.

In another, a small town cop caught one of our murder suspects. That's good. He promised the guy he would let him call his girl friend IF he told him what happened in the murder. Gotta a worthless confession. That was bad. Even though our detective reinterviewed and tried to fix it, we damn near lost it in court. Some of these little town police need to stick to what they do best.

[retired]

[quote]Originally posted by Deputy757

Originally posted by retired
Because I don't believe that the federal government should be intruding into a states right! Whenever the federal government gets involved with the states, there are always strings attached. Quite frankly there are some jurisdictions that have "cop" that shouldn't be carrying a gun, and many of them are strictly appointed. The standards in one state differ from another.
I know what you mean about wanting lesser federal gov't involvement, but this particular issue is already addressed in the Constitution in Article 4. States are to give "full faith and credit....to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state."
Section 2 goes on to say that "citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states." This is why we can drive in all 50 states without having to take their tests. I don't think it's unreasonable to extend this to accepting the LE certification of officers from other states. Yes, of course there are places where they employ poor examples of law enforcement. Among them are NYPD, LAPD, Detroit, Chicago...you name it. There are always going to be the bad apples but they are an extremely small percentage. If and when this bill passes, if one of these officers abuses the privilege it provides for, then deal with them then the way you deal with them now when they f*** up!
I personally will ask my congressmen to vote yes as I've been a supporter (and LEAA member) for many years.

If you do a little legal research you will find that section of the Constitution does not apply to CCW or other law enforcement matters.

[retired]

Originally posted by Invisiblecop
Deputy757

I'm lost re: NY, Chicago, LAPD, employ "poor examples of Law enforcement. Could you clarify.



retired
I know your position. I made no reference to your position. Whatever you choose to do is your own business.

Of course it is, I am well aware of that!