Reserve Police Officers

[IndianaDeputy]

Is there a general acceptance of Reserve Officers in your department and are they given full police powers ?

[packpolice]

They are ok in a pinch, when under staffed, or working a special event or check point. Otherwise my experience has not been so great wth them regarding attitude towards police work.

[Frank Booth]

I don't have a problem with them as long as they don't have a problem with me coming to their union job on the assembly line and bolting on bumpers for free for a shift every now and then.....I always wanted to be a shop rat, but I don't like lifting heavy things.

[18C3V]

Originally posted by packpolice
They are ok in a pinch, when under staffed, or working a special event or check point.

I agree with that. I usually find them lacking in report writing skills but usually most of the guys are using the reserves as a stepping stone to our dept.

[JohnKelly]

I can't answer or comment on this question, because Police Forces in Australia do not have Reserve Officers or Special Constables and nor are they ever likely to have them. Any attempt to introduce unpaid labour would result in strong objections and possible industrial action from the various Police Unions throughout Australia.

However, I find it facinating that there are persons who are prepared to carry out police duties without payment and I would like to hear from members of other Police Forces, such as the UK, on how Reserve Police/Special Constables are regarded in their part of the world.

[retired]

For the most part the reserves in my department were well trained and they didn't interfere in the OT for the regulars, nor did they take away jobs from the regulars.

[retdetsgt]

I agree with Frank Booth, they're scabs... If they have full police powers and used as regular police, they are taking away jobs. You have some guy out there doing for free what you do for a living... No amount of rational is going to change that. I think it also reflects on the professionalism of a dept. when they put free labor out there.

I like to weld, but I suspect some of the reserves that are welders would scream bloody murder if I came to their shop and started working for free. I might not take away his job, but it would allow the owner not to hire someone else as his business expands because I'm working for nothing. If you want to play police officer, do it in your back yard with your kids.

My dept. uses them for special events as security guards, directing traffic at those events, etc. They are NEVER used to take police calls.

Jim

[Vtfuzz]

I have nothing but good things to say about reserves/part-time officers. Working in a severely understaffed department it helps us out immensly having part-time officers come out an lend a hand.

For the life of me I can't see how anyone could say they steal jobs, when in my opinion they aid in giving us a break. It is nice having a part-timer work so I can actually have a day off.

[Frank Booth]

I have nothing but good things to say about reserves/part-time officers. Working in a severely understaffed department it helps us out immensly having part-time officers come out an lend a hand.

Why are you so accepting of reserves if your department is so understaffed????? The answer isn't to get free labor to help out with the low priority stuff, or even, God forbid, take calls as retdet implied. The answer is to get an ordinance passed that requires the police department to have a minimum staffing, or "X" amount of officers relative to the population or number of calls you get per year. The answer is to HIRE MORE COPS!! If Northwest Airlines were understaffed in the pilot department, would you fly on a 747 piloted by a "reserve" who isn't getting paid and only flies 8 hours per month to "help out" because he likes to wear a uniform and fly an airplane around? And if you tell me that reserves aren't out there to play police, but rather to "give back to the community", maybe you can tell me why you don't see any in plain clothes, unarmed, answering the phone at the desk so another officer could be free to take calls....

[MK219]

I am not speaking on behalf of reserves/auxiliary/ specials, etc..

I can see where Frank and retdetsgt are coming from, but I disagree with parts of the complaint. Where I "work" as an auxiliary we are unpaid officers. We mainly do un paid details such as church crossings, Parades, and other traffic situations. Yes, my city is atleast ten guys short on their roster. The budget cut forced them to not replace them. Response time is not as good as it can be. Back-up time is "scary". Point being we need more paid cops, but that is not going to happen. Hey I'd love to be one of those paid officers.
But the fact is what we do doesn't interfere with anyones in the CITY pay. When there is a paid detail to be filled, and the city doesn't have any full-time, reserves, retirerees, it then goes to sheriff, state, or neighboring agencies. We don't even get asked. When the city does "go outside" for details, the city LOSES money, the UNION loses money, and the PD loses money. If we could do the details the Union, the CITY, and the PD can all get their "cut" of the cash.

The only policing we do is Night Patrols. We patrol Municpal property, parks, schools, etc. Does this cross into the regular territory, YES. We can make arrests, but since we don't get paid for court, and we don't get paid enough to handle the liablity, we call the regulars to make the arrest. That doesn't mean we can't or don't, but the prefer response is to call the regulars. This actually means we are just extras ears and eyes for the departments.
We also do stuff that the regulars DON"T want to do. Christmas night last year we got a HUGE snow storm. We were called out to baby sit power lines and fallen trees. You think that the regulars wanted to leave their famlies Christmas night, NO WAY! But we went out there, not for power, glory or fame, but because we do care about public safety.
It is cool to put on the uniform, strap on a gun, and wear the badge. I get a rush everytime I put on the uniform. But we do the boring stuff. All for public safety, and the love for the job, and yes, to gain experience so we can have a better chance to get that 1 job opening that 10,000,000 in Massachusetts are trying to get.

As far as the actual RESERVES. In my city you pass the Civil Circus, and get hired by the city. Once you go through all the BS you become a reserve. go through the full-time academy, you do paid details. but you are just a reserve. Once their is an opening, you now have a chance to be full-time. Its the city way of hiring.

[Photogrrlz]

I myself am a reserve officer and I dont feel we take away from any full time officers. As a township we cant afford to staff many officers as full time so alot of mids are filled by reserve officers who come out and work the weekends and all the odd ball shifts. Also, I am looking into getting a full time position but I need something to keep my certification good at the same time so thats where alot of reserves come from. I take great joy in the work I do and often times I am out more than 1 time a week and work more than a 8 hour shift.

[ofc129]

We have only a few reserve officers, a throwback to the old days, and once they are gone they will not be replaced. Apparently a couple of them pulled something stupid a few years back and that was the end of that. They are only used at special events such as Mardi Gras or the state fair, etc., and occasionally do ride-alongs. The ones I know of off the top of my head are/were full-time officers at other departments that do not afford them the "excitement" our bigger jurisdiction does.

The county uses reserves, and they have a minimum requirement of hours they have to ride each month, but they ride with a full-time officer. It's funny that alot of guys go that route thinking they'll get hired on quicker, but it doesn't work that way unless they know somebody. Why pay somebody when you've got them working for free? By the same token, however, I don't think those jurisdictions with unpaid reserves with little/no police powers are depending on them to the point that they aren't hiring new full-time officers, particularly the smaller jurisdictions. Let's face it, small towns/counties don't have alot of revenue coming in to support it, no matter how much it's needed. Washington County, just north of here, has only 8 deputies and is VERY poor. They couldn't afford any more if they wanted to because the tax base just isn't there.

Kristen

[retdetsgt]

They'll get the tax base for cops, if you make them. Saying that there wouldn't be policing if it wasn't for the reserves is not true.. It takes, on the average 1.5 police per thousand to police an area. If a jurisdiction is understaffed, the public will at some point get wind of it and pay for it.

Oregon is a tax revolt heaven. Schools are closing early, the legislature is wringing it's hands trying come up with a budget after a 750 million shortfall. BUT, every time there is a levy for police, it passes, everytime. Same for fire protection, people will pay for that. But as long as administrators are able to use free labor, they will.

And to say if it wasn't for reserves, you couldn't get a day off, check your labor laws..... If you didn't have reserves and you called in sick, the chief, sheriff, whoever would HAVE to have paid people available to take your place. He would go to the city, county or whoever and you can bet they would come up with money if there was no one out there to protect the jurisdiction. But a reserve is putting someone out of that job.....

Jim

[Frank Booth]

If one of the benefits of having a reserve program is that they do the jobs that the cops don't want to do, how come you never see them in the jobs that don't require a gun and a uniform? I do this job for a paycheck. People who do it for free to wear a gun and a uniform kind of scare me. And why do reserves never anwer that universal question: "What do you do for a living, and how would you feel working with someone who would do it for free?" As far not being able to find a cop who would want to babysit downed wires on Christmas for triple time holiday pay: Don't bet on it. Also: I talked to one reserve a long time ago who told me that as long as one cop was laid off, he and his colleagues would never work a detail. Well, when the layoffs came, and the busy downtown event season came, guess who was walking around downtown in a uniform?

[MK219]

Originally posted by Frank Booth
"What do you do for a living, and how would you feel working with someone who would do it for free?"

I work for a supermarket stocking shelves. I was a manager, but stepped down to persue LE more. As far as someone doing it for free. PM me and I'll give you the address, I'll even let you have my Sticker gun. Could use the help. Unfortunely the uniform isn't as flashy

Don't get me wrong Frank, I do understand what you are saying. But I think in moderation reserves/ auxiliary is a good thing. If the Union gets concessions and the reserves/ auxs don't get too big they can get along fine

[Watchman]

It takes, on the average 1.5 police per thousand to police an area.

You got that correct.

If a jurisdiction is understaffed, the public will at some point get wind of it and pay for it.

Thats probably true.

We have 30 fulltimers for a population of around 50,000. So,technically, we are staffed at maximum level. State law allows for 1 reserve for each fulltime officer. Right now we have 20 reserves. Due to being spread so thin, we are talking about putting on 5 more.

All we are doing is agumenting the force.

More often than not there are is least one reserve on shift. Often times that all the "backup" there is. Our reserves get into all the same crap that fulltimers do, although we dont do near as much paperwork. Yeah, we take calls. Not one time that I'm aware of has any member of the public ever known the difference. I know I am not as proficent as someone that does it day in and day out for a living. But you know what ? The stuff aint rocket science or nuclear technology. I equate it to being the same as a military reservist. A couple of drills a month and some occasional training. If a shooting war erupts, the enemy will not know the difference if he is killed by a reservist or a 20 year veteran.

Same with the thugs. All they see is the handcuffs you just put on them. Then they start worrying about Bubba at the jailcell who hasnt had a woman in a few years...

[retdetsgt]

The stuff aint rocket science or nuclear technology.

I agree It's not the ablity of the reserve officer to do the job that I'm talking about. But as a couple of us keep harping, how would you like someone coming to where you work and doing the job for free?

As I stated before, after I retired, I took some welding classes and got pretty good at it. I even have a certificate that says that. But you talk about *** whipping in the "Ask a cop" area, what kind of *** whipping do you think I'd get if I showed up at a shop, pulled out my gear and started working for free? I hate to even think about it!

[Deputy757]

Originally posted by Watchman
But you know what ? The stuff aint rocket science or nuclear technology. I equate it to being the same as a military reservist. A couple of drills a month and some occasional training. If a shooting war erupts, the enemy will not know the difference if he is killed by a reservist or a 20 year veteran.

Couple of quick points here. One, a military reservist has been through EXACTLY the same basic training, and technical training for that matter, as a full timer. Two, an enemy may not know the difference betweeen being killed by a reservist or 20 year veteran, but who do you think is going to better accomplish that job? Also, who do you want covering your six in a firefight?

[Frank Booth]

I work for a supermarket stocking shelves. I was a manager, but stepped down to persue LE more.

So you wouldn't have a problem when, after the interview, the chief tells you: "You were the most qualified, and I wanted to hire you, but the mayor just told me that we can save money if we bring two new reseves into the program instead of hiring you."

[Watchman]

what kind of *** whipping do you think I'd get if I showed up at a shop, pulled out my gear and started working for free? I hate to even think about it!

I guess that depends on the workload. If you were the only one on shift,work was backed up and you were spread too thin and the pressure was on,having someone help you may not be a bad thing.

Two, an enemy may not know the difference betweeen being killed by a reservist or 20 year veteran, but who do you think is going to better accomplish that job? Also, who do you want covering your six in a firefight?

Dead is dead. There are no varying degrees.

Since the members of various SEAL Teams are few and far between, Ill take anybody that can see well,shoot straight,hard and fast and has balls of rock.

[Southpaw]

The reserves at our SO go to the academy and have the same powers as full-timers. Our department is an at-will department. We are allowed to patrol solo and receive the same on-going training (EVOC, firearms, etc.) Like anything else, there are good ones and not so good ones. Around here it is mostly seen as a way to get on full-time. The pay issue is pretty much moot because I don't think the county (about 85,000) pays over-time - just comp time.

Reserves here are unpaid. The full-timers seem to have nothing but appreciation for us because:

1. we do special events that they don't want to;
2. we fill in so they can go on vacation, take training, or be on sick leave (otherwise it's a no go)

[Vtfuzz]

Originally posted by Frank Booth
Why are you so accepting of reserves if your department is so understaffed????? The answer isn't to get free labor to help out with the low priority stuff, or even, God forbid, take calls as retdet implied.

Because the whole state is extremely low on officers due to not many people wanting to be cops. There are more jobs than applicants, and a good majority of the applicants get weeded out.

Don't forget you work in a much bigger area than most of us!

The answer is to get an ordinance passed that requires the police department to have a minimum staffing, or "X" amount of officers relative to the population or number of calls you get per year. The answer is to HIRE MORE COPS!!

Sure that's the answer, but in most places it won't happen, that's just life....(like the search and seizure post)

If Northwest Airlines were understaffed in the pilot department, would you fly on a 747 piloted by a "reserve" who isn't getting paid and only flies 8 hours per month to "help out" because he likes to wear a uniform and fly an airplane around?

Would I like it, no. The point made is that reserves fill a nitch in "most" departments. They don't replace anyone because if they were not here, there wouldn't be any one else.

And if you tell me that reserves aren't out there to play police, but rather to "give back to the community", maybe you can tell me why you don't see any in plain clothes, unarmed, answering the phone at the desk so another officer could be free to take calls....

Sure this one is easy...we don't have a desk officer. Also we have things called dispatchers that answer phones and call an officer into the office for walk in complaints.

[Don]

You folks that have such an intensive dislike of reserves are only looking at your (probably fairly large) departments. (Not to mention that I KNOW FRANK loves to stir things up.)

However, in smaller less well funded areas, reserves certainly are welcome by most full timers. Most of us who have lived/worked in these areas, have been around them long enough to know that the TAX BASE just is not there. So do you send an officer by himself to handle a domestic with weapons, or do you just sit on your *** in the area waiting for the next closest guy to drive 50 to 75 miles for back up.

This is something that the city guys just don't have to worry about. But there are one hell of a lot of small towns and rural counties that do.

Oh, and just for the heck of it, I have to tell you Frank, that we used reserve deputies to work the jail, as well as patrol. Now it just doesn't get any more glamorous than that, does it.

We had some civilian dispatchers that were reserve deputies. We had some corrections officers that were reserve deputies. EVERY reserve we had were folks who were trying to get on full time. When you have a small agency, those openings come few and far between.

Sure, in a metropolitan area, I can see where you guys, (particularly if you are of the "union" mind set) would actually FEAR the reserves. I'm not at all sure that I blame you. I've never worked for YOUR administrators. OTOH, YOU have never worked for the same administrators I have.

What I'm trying to say is that everybody has had different experiences with where they have worked. This is not a "one size fits all" type thing.

Oh and Frank, if I haven't said it before, WELCOME BACK!

[Frank Booth]

Oh and Frank, if I haven't said it before, WELCOME BACK!

Why thank you....

[Chief Wiggum]

On my dept. reserves have no impact on manning levels because they can only ride with a full time officer. It wouldn't matter if we had 20 reserves riding on a particular night. They count as zero when it comes to determining manning levels. They come in handy on calls requiring 2 officers because the 1 full-timer can take it with his "partner", the reserve.