Legal Drugs! - Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com

barricade434 · 06-07-2009, 10:17 PM

Anyone with advanced knowledge of how to handle legal drugs? Case in point. Found kid with order forms for 3k Morning Glory seeds purchased online. Was stumped by my find at first, but with some research found out that when consumed by the hundreds these seeds produce the similar effect of LSD. Only in my state they are not illegal to possess or consume. Found that many other seeds and botanics which are legal to obtain and consume, can be very easily obtained throught grocery stores and the world wide web! Im curious if there are test kits out there, or any information that could assist me in recognizing when someone is high on seeds or botanics, as aposed to illegal narcotics.

Ceridwen · 06-07-2009, 10:25 PM

Check out the Federal Analogue Act, if a chemical is chemically similar to a scheduled chemical AND has similar psychoactive effects AND is possessed or sold for the purposes of human consumption then it is illegal.

There is no test available to tell the difference aside from a GC/MS.

Morning Glory seeds contain the active ingredient LSA, which is a precursor to LSD -- it could be argued that LSA is analogous to LSD, but it is really more of a precursor ingredient that is also psychoactive itself. Reports are that it is not very fun though.

Edit: I just checked, and LSA itself is a schedule III chemical. Extraction of LSA from morning glory seeds would be illegal.

barricade434 · 06-07-2009, 10:30 PM

Well I thank you much, I will give it a look!

Spoken · 06-07-2009, 10:32 PM

You can still arrest someone for DUI if they are on these "legal" drugs. You can still arrest some for PI if they are on these "legal" drugs. If people are stupid enough to take these "legal" drugs, they will be illegal before long!

Ceridwen · 06-07-2009, 10:36 PM

Here is the relative section, it is from 21 U.S.C. § 813:

Quote:

(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (C), the term controlled substance analogue means a substance -
(i) the chemical structure of which is substantially similar to the chemical structure of a controlled substance in schedule I or II;
(ii) which has a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system that is substantially similar to or greater than the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance in schedule I or II; or
(iii) with respect to a particular person, which such person represents or intends to have a stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system that is substantially similar to or greater than the stimulant, depressant, or hallucinogenic effect on the central nervous system of a controlled substance in schedule I or II.
(B) The designation of gamma butyrolactone or any other chemical as a listed chemical pursuant to paragraph (34) or (35) does not preclude a finding pursuant to subparagraph (A) of this paragraph that the chemical is a controlled substance analogue.
(C) Such term does not include -
(i) a controlled substance;
(ii) any substance for which there is an approved new drug application;
(iii) with respect to a particular person any substance, if an exemption is in effect for investigational use, for that person, under section 355 of this title to the extent conduct with respect to such substance is pursuant to such exemption; or
(iv) any substance to the extent not intended for human consumption before such an exemption takes effect with respect to that substance.

The kicker seems to be proving intent to consume, but unless this kid is either starting a morning glory farm or something I don't see what else he had planned for them.

Although with LSA being itself scheduled, it could be assumed that the student intended to extract the LSA from the morning glory seeds and you wouldn't even need to bother with the analogue act for that.

Another example along these lines: Poppy seeds are legal, the opium concentration is small. Concentrating them in the form of 'poppy tea' is, I think, legally dubious.

barricade434 · 06-07-2009, 10:40 PM

Aw come on spoken we all know they are stupid enough. lol. Thanks for the info.

AJG8 · 06-07-2009, 10:42 PM

Yes and check out Erowid.com or .org? forget which one, but look it up. very very interesting and informative website about drugs, in general. all sorts of things on there. they even have nutmeg up there as a way to become "high". i've learned some of the craziest things i never imagined a person would do to alter their physical and mental states.

barricade434 · 06-07-2009, 10:44 PM

That is what sucked, I only found the order form and envelope. No product. But im sure it will turn up again, but now i'll have a better knowledge of what im dealing with. I printed out the act, and am going to share it with my partner's. With any luck we can squash this bug before it gets out of control.

Ceridwen · 06-07-2009, 10:44 PM

In excess nutmeg is a deliriant. If kids these days consider being delirious and hallucinating (for real, not seing "visuals" ala LSD but actually believing the things they see) is "fun" then I'm worried

barricade434 · 06-07-2009, 10:46 PM

yeah i read up on nutmeg. That is "nuts"...lol get it. But yeah, why do acid when Nutmeg will jack your world up!

Ceridwen · 06-07-2009, 10:49 PM

Side effects include schizophasia and thoughts of impending doom.

Ceridwen · 06-07-2009, 11:01 PM

I've heard that extracts of Salvia divinorum (Diviner's Sage) has become popular with young people to smoke or ingest to create a psychedelic effect.

Taylor13 · 06-07-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ceridwen

I've heard that extracts of Salvia divinorum (Diviner's Sage) has become popular with young people to smoke or ingest to create a psychedelic effect.

Yeah, I was gonna mention that. It's all legal and stuff, I've seen a few videos of what it does to people, and read some things from cops on here.. I'm still waiting for a legal drug that wont do any harm to me and will get me high. I know, I'm such a princess.

AJG8 · 06-07-2009, 11:07 PM

robitussin is a biggy these days also. kids will consume whole bottles at once.

Ceridwen · 06-07-2009, 11:10 PM

The active chemical is salvinorin A which you are correct, is not scheduled and therefore not illegal. There is a long history of use of it primarily as an religious aid for various shamanic rituals but little modern medical history regarding it's use. It doesn't appear as though it has any lasting effects but until reading that in a peer reviewed scientific journal I would not say that for certain.

Much safer than huffing paint though, so perhaps kids using this is better if they're not doing that.

Ceridwen · 06-07-2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJG8

robitussin is a biggy these days also. kids will consume whole bottles at once.

Ugh, in high doses DXM (robitussin) produces strong disassociative effects like PCP. I think perhaps kids should stick with smoking reefer. Getting kind of hungry and veging out is better than having psychosis.

AJG8 · 06-07-2009, 11:24 PM

i think kids are beginning to transcend into harder drugs these days. honestly, with weed being the gateway drug that it is, and with so much widespread use, it's really become the new cigarette. i live in the dallas area and frequent bars and clubs as much as i can (i love the nightlife here) and i've noticed (by word of mouth) along the past couple of years that ecstasy and lsd are becoming a LOT more prevalent among young teenagers. it's sad to see what's happening to our future generations.

Ceridwen · 06-07-2009, 11:33 PM

Maybe. In these cases I think its more unable to secure any illegal drugs so trying to get what they can legally. Really though, if I had a child any packages they bought over the internet and I wasn't expecting would be inspected first.

mikeseniorproj · 06-07-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJG8

i think kids are beginning to transcend into harder drugs these days. honestly, with weed being the gateway drug that it is, and with so much widespread use, it's really become the new cigarette. i live in the dallas area and frequent bars and clubs as much as i can (i love the nightlife here) and i've noticed (by word of mouth) along the past couple of years that ecstasy and lsd are becoming a LOT more prevalent among young teenagers. it's sad to see what's happening to our future generations.

I'm 18 and never got into the drug thing(never have smoked weed or anything), but I've watched several good friends go from weed to experimenting with everything from shrooms to LSD to Ecstasy...

So i would agree with your post...Sad indeed.

Mstangfk · 06-07-2009, 11:47 PM

back in my day we just drank alot of beer we purchased with fake ID's or stole, might smoke a lil pot and then have drunken unprotected sex for our weekend thrills..

kids today ordering plant seeds and consuming them for a high...i dont understand this generation...

Southflaguy · 06-07-2009, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mstangfk

back in my day we just drank alot of beer we purchased with fake ID's or stole, might smoke a lil pot and then have drunken unprotected sex for our weekend thrills..

kids today ordering plant seeds and consuming them for a high...i dont understand this generation...

This generation's motto is, live for today not tomorrow...They're getting dumber and dumber, well in their defense so are their parents (if the parents are in the child's life)...

They just want the rush and high...

bigislander72 · 06-08-2009, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spoken

You can still arrest someone for DUI if they are on these "legal" drugs. You can still arrest some for PI if they are on these "legal" drugs. If people are stupid enough to take these "legal" drugs, they will be illegal before long!

I heard of a guy getting a DUI for driving under the influence of Kava. Its available in health food stores as a relaxing tea, which it is. This guy was polynesian, and when they drink, they drink a lot at one time. Three cups was the most I have ever tried and it has a pretty tranquilizing effect.

Napsack · 06-08-2009, 09:35 AM

The morning glory can really cause problems, you dont just see swirly colors, wrong amounts can kill ya. Jimson weed is another one.

CH47Doc · 06-08-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJG8

robitussin is a biggy these days also. kids will consume whole bottles at once.

Known around here as 'robotrippn'. now if we can just get them to suck on some purple foxglove

Narco · 06-08-2009, 12:02 PM

federal law is irrelevant unless you're state has adopted it or has a similar law. if it's not illegal in your own state you can't charge them w/ a "possession" offense. as one other poster suggested you could hit them with an under the influence charge perhaps.

the DEA classifies marijuana as a Schedule I drug still...that just blows my mind hole. the reasons behind it are far more political than medical.