Glocks at the range = banned?

[Xanthorius]

At my Academy, we are using our state patrol's range and instructors for firearms training. They have outlawed ALL Glocks and S&W Sigma Series (spelling?). I can't get a straight answer on WHY from anybody. Some people say an instructor holstered a weapon with their finger in the trigger guard (no external safety = bang), some say that the cleaning thing is too dangerous (gotta have the trigger depressed to clean a Glock), etc.

Has anybody else experienced this? It's their range and their rules, so no complaining here, but I was just wondering if anybody had some good speculation on why this occured.

Glockarmorer asked if I had any questions for him, right? http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[John from Maryland]

Glocks have always had a bad rep among some (I emphasize some) firearms instructors. Glocks are even less forgiving of carelessness than many other pistols. They come with a fairly light trigger pull (5.5 pounds) and the trigger hasa short travel distance. There are also the issues of no hammer for an officer to keep a thumb on when reholstering to double check that hammer is not back and pulling the trigger to break down the weapon.

Many of these "problems" can be corrected through training, careful gunhandling, or modification to the weapon (e.g.: the New York trigger). Some range staff just don't want to deal with the matter. I would suspect that many of the same "problems" are inherent in the Sigma.

Miami-Dade Police Department (as of a few years ago) issued revolvers to recruits. Following probation, the officer could transition to anyone of a variety of 9mm's. Glocks were specifically prohibited. Many of the officers in my Officer Survival Instructor course carried Glocks, however, and there was no concern expressed by the trainers.

The FBI was also a notoriously anti-Glock agency until field agents and instructors discovered the Glock 26. Authorization of that weapon opened the door for the Glock 23 to become standard issue today.

Be safe.

[This message has been edited by John from Maryland (edited 11-15-2000).]

[Niteshift]

As usual, John is right on the money.

I've heard the finger on the trigger while holstering story too. You know what? Rule #1 says don't put your finger on the trigger unless you're ready to fire. Follow rule #1 and you won't have any worries.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[CaptSchmooze]

Ignorance is bliss and some folks are very happy.

Schmooze

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Tights and a cape, the true uniform of a crime fighter.

[Glockarmorer]

Xanth',
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Are you certain about this? Following the "no external manual safety" line of thinking, that would also rule out all DAO Smiths, Berettas, SIGS and all DA revolvers. Perhaps CO is isolated from the rest of the country where 65% of all LE agencies carry Glocks, including the NYPD, FBI, and dozens of state agencies.

Glocks are designed to do one thing very well. They go "BANG" every time you pull the trigger. Don't pull the trigger, they won't fire. You can throw them against a wall, hit them with a hammer, drop them on the concrete, and drag them behind your 'Vic, they won't fire... Pull the trigger, they will.

John,
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought Miami PD was one of the very first agencies to adopt the Glock back in the late eighties.

Capt. S.,
You said it brother!

G.A.

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No cops, know anarchy.

[Niteshift]

"Glocks are designed to do one thing very well. They go "BANG" every time you pull the trigger. Don't pull the trigger, they won't fire. You can throw them against a wall, hit them with a hammer, drop them on the concrete, and drag them behind your 'Vic, they won't fire..."

You forgot drop them from a chopper onto concrete. Remember that test?

"Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought Miami PD was one of the very first agencies to adopt the Glock back in the late eighties."

You're right, but so is John. Miami PD did adopt them in the 80's. Miami-Dade PD is a county-wide agency (a metro agency that functions as their Sheriff's Office. It was Metro-Dade PD until the county officially changed their name to Miami-Dade County). Miami-Dade/Metro-Dade specified no Glocks.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[Xanthorius]

GA, I am extremely sure. We have recieved multiple pages of documentation on this from the Colorado State Patrol (as in, each page of the firearms info has a warning somewhere in ALL CAPS telling us NO GLOCKS OF ANY CALIBRE OR S&W SIGMA SERIES). I agree, it's pretty silly. I own a Glock 22 myself, and it's irritating to have to buy a second gun to get through the Academy. I bought the Glock a while ago. Now I'll probably have to sell it to buy something else to get through the firearms training.

I'm not sure about those other weapons you listed- if it isn't on their "list", you have to call them and have it approved individually if they will accept that particular weapon.

Many (read: about half) of the local police officers I've seen carry Glocks. I agree with about everything that's been said here. Who knows, maybe they'll explain it to us when we're down there in January.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. If anybody has continued thoughts, I'd love to hear 'em.

[cpierson1]

Xanth,

I'll be more than happy to help you get rid of that terrible, horrid Glock. Just send it to me, through a FFL of course, and I'll see to it that it never bothers you again.....

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13th Rule Of Combat: When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is NOT our friend.

[Glockarmorer]

Originally posted by Niteshift:
You forgot drop them from a chopper onto concrete. Remember that test?


As a matter of fact, wasn't it Miami that did those tests!? Thanks for the info.

GLOCK RULES, ALL ELSE DROOLS!!! http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif


G.A.

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No cops, know anarchy.

[This message has been edited by Glockarmorer (edited 11-17-2000).]

[Niteshift]

I thought it was a dept. in Ohio. I forget now. I remember the photos in Handguns magazine.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[cpierson1]

Yes, but in Ohio, that's the prefered method of using a firearm....as a blunt object. At least, for the citizens.

Sign seen at the side of a highway just inside Ohio:

"Welcome to Ohio, where law abiding citizens aren't allowed to protect themselves with the same weapons criminals use. Thanks for visiting. Gov. Taft"

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13th Rule Of Combat: When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is NOT our friend.

[This message has been edited by cpierson1 (edited 11-20-2000).]

[Xanthorius]

As a side note to this story, I sold the Glock for a Beretta 92. Not my first choice (or else I wouldn't whine about Glocks being banned http://www.officer.com/ubb/wink.gif ), but my goal is to get through the Academy, so I'm okay with it. I wish I'd planned ahead and saved a little bit, though. I wouldn't have had to sell the Glock. Live and learn, right?

[Bob A]

I cannot understand the mentality of anyone who blames an inanimate object when a human errs. In my view, this is the basis for most of our country's ills. There is no perfect weapon, but some are close, and Glock is definitely on the list. We could sit here all night and find fault with every pistol on the market. I trust my training, my instincts, and my Glock.