Outlawing Guns in America?

[Topdog]

I believe that ownership of guns by civilians will eventually be outlawed in the United States. How? WITH THE STROKE OF A PEN. There are too many Americans who want guns outlawed. They believe that only the military and the police should have guns. When it comes to civilian ownership of guns, they are against it and I've heard it said:

"The needs of the many outweighs the rights of the few."

Unbelievably, guns have been outlawed in Great Britain. I heard that Australia followed suit in 1997(?). Staunch American gun owners don't believe guns will EVER be outlawed here. But the writing is on the wall!!!

What's your opinion?

[tcsd1236]

I think you are right that at some point they will make the effort. It will not be a frontal assault on the right to own guns, though. The anti's will marginalize as many types of guns as they can..military pattern rifles, handguns, big bore rifles...make them "un- PC" to own. Then the ability to pass weapons on to children will be ended; when you die, the weapon gets turned in. Also, controls on ammo; the weapon may be legal, but they will tell you how many rounds you may legally own....perhaps also where you can store the weapon, and in what condition.
Gwhore and his crew are traitors in my opinion and will do all they can to futher this end.

[CaptSchmooze]

I agree that it will happen, the big question is when. I don't see it happening anytime soon, they will chip away at ownership until it is easy to make the final ban work.
Makes me sick actually.

Sadly,
Schmooze

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Tights and a cape, the true uniform of a crime fighter.

[vampire13r]

Violent Crime has increased in the countries you mentioned since they outlawed handguns. I had the same argument with a person from Denmark who thought her country a Utopian Paradise and reminded her that when the Nazis occupied them Denmark stood mutely by and was conquered without a shot. Yugoslavia, where the Population was armed, fought for four years after thier government had surrendered.

Gun Control is not about crime it is about the Bill of Rights. It has its roots in the Defeat and Capture of General Burgoynes British Army at Saratoga. It was not the Continental Army that did this, it wwas the militias. It was the TET Offensive of that war. Gen Burgoyne later told Parliament that no european power could ever occupy an armed america.

In drafting the Bill of Rights, the Right to Bare Arms is as inalienable as Free Speech, the Press, Assembly or any of the other rights. When a legislature or court disregards the Constitutional imperative "The Congress Shall Make No Law" It cheapens all of those rights.

In the 1920s the Prohibitionist passed an Amendment to the Constitution outlawing the sale or production of Alchoholic beverages. Dumb idea but at least they didn't cheapen the constitution. All laws effecting the right of Americans to keep and bear arms are unconstitutional. So get an amendment to the Bill of Rights if you want Gun Control

[AussieCop]

Regarding Australian Firearm Laws....

We did not follow Britian.
Our laws have been misinterperated and misquoted around the world, and even within my own country.
Basically, the law changes made firearm ownership more restrictive, rather than the perceived belief of the banning of firearms.
The ownership of sem-automatic weapons and pump action shotguns has been strictly regulated. The only people who can now legally have them are Police, military, Park Rangers, Property (ranch) owners, professional or contract hunters/shooters. Each of those applicants must be able to show the licensing authority that thgere is a need to have a semi-auto as opposed to a single shot.
Other laws regulate the storage of firearms. No longer can they be stored in open racks or in cupboards, but must be stored in a lockable metal cabinet.
Another law is that ownership of guns can be denied to certain persons.... examples being, those that have proven recklessness or lack of responsibility in firearm ownership, those who have been convicted of serious violence against another person, those that are mentally unfit etc...
Other restrictions came in as to where a person could go shooting. Previously, a person could go blasting away almost anywhere they felt like it. Now a letter of consent must be obtained.

Given the above, I can't understand why folk say that Australia is banning firearm ownership for civillians.

[Superhero]

When the constitution was first written, an American citizen could take his firearm ANYWHERE in the country. Today, regardless of what the 2nd amendment says, an American citizen can no longer take his firearm anywhere in the country. Things are much more restrictive. And thats a fact!

Yes, ownership of firearms will be outlawed (probably in my lifetime). It is being done one law at at time. Look at how restrictive it is today compared to 100 or 200 years ago.

[MacLeod]

I should point out that civilian ownership of firearms has NOT been outlawed totaly in the UK.

There is a total ban on handguns. However you can still legally obtain a firearms certificate, which involves back ground checks and the Police visiting your home, for rifles and shot guns.

This was as a direct result of a massacre odf school pupils at Dunblane.

The majority of the public support this action. Or so it seems

[tcsd1236]

Mac:
Firearms ownership there is so low, it might as well be outlawed.
The UK is increasingly Socialistic. Now I see that citizens will have the right to walk willy nilly all over anyones land over there and the landowner can't say "boo" about it? And this was a major plank in Blairs platform when he ran?

[MacLeod]

Vampire

Violent crime has fallen in the UK since the ban on handguns.

tscd

The trespass law still exists in England so you can't walk willy nilly over peoples land down there.

There has never been a law of trespass in Scotland, all though there are agrivated trespass offences such as trespassing with a firearm.

I don't think you can use the UK's Firearms legislation as an example of oppresive law restricting citizens rights.

In 1988 there was a massacre in a town called Hungerford. The then conservative Government introduced the restrictions on firearms that Australia introduced in 1997.

This was done with massive public support, In 1997 after a massacre at a school in Dunblane the Labour Government restriced gun ownership further by banning handguns.

Since owning a handgun for self defence was not permitted even before the 1988 act the public wanted the ban argueing that there was no legitemet reason for owning handguns.

The sporting handgun lobby was out voted.

The public here got what they wanted. Those of us who still shoot use rifles and shot guns.

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Hold Fast

[cpierson1]

I have six words:


THEY WILL NEVER TAKE MY GUNS!!!



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13th Rule Of Combat: When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is NOT our friend.

[tcsd1236]

Mac:
Then it's a classic example of the law abiding public letting the misdeeds of the law-breaking be used to restrict THEIR rights, in my opinion. ONE misdeed and the entire public rolled over and played dead? I would presume when some whacko takes a car and drives down the sidewalk running over 26 people, the Brits will be equally quick to ban cars. Oh, I forget...with the price of gas over there, no one can afford to drive anyway........
I have to agree with ceirperson on this one.
Mac, your part of the world has a centuries long history of not trusting an armed populace. The events of the past few years there do not surprise me.

[AussieCop]

Currently on the political agenda in many Australian States is the banning of the carriage of knives. Current law in my neck of the wooods, is that it is only against the law if the person carrying a knife, is unable to supply a satisfactory and lawful excuse for doing so...
for example... "I'm a butcher and these are my tools of trade"
"I can never get a sharp steak knife at any restaurant I've eaten at so I carry my own"
"If I come across a motor vehicle accident, I might have to cut the seatbelt to get the injured people out"..
As you can see, almost anyone can cxarry a knife and offer a "valid" excuse, that would prevent a successful prosecution..
then we have the idiots who carry knives... ask them why...
"for protection"
"in case I have to fight somebody"
"it makes me look tough"
"i feel braver when I carry a knife"

(Those are actual excuses offered to me where I have later successfully prosecuted them)

[MBH]

That sounds great! The crooks should have no problem at all attacking people now! http://www.officer.com/ubb/wink.gif

MBH

[cpierson1]

No offense, Aussie, but let me get this straight.....

In Australia, the subjects can't be trusted with a common tool? And resistence to an attack is not a good enough excuse? Do they put the same restrictions on walking sticks, which could ALSO be used as a defensive tool?


I carry at least one knife every single day, especially when it is impractical for me to carry a handgun. Why? You never know when you might need a good knife. Protection (something is better than nothing), because Life and the protection of Life is a Right given to me by my Creator and recognized by the Constitution, not a privlege created by any government. And yes, that does mean bladed weapons, firearms, clubs, etc. It just says "arms". It doesn't limit me to size, wieght, type, style, make, model, or caliber, no matter WHAT the politicians say.

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13th Rule Of Combat: When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is NOT our friend.

[AussieCop]

I feel that the argument for and against an armed public has been flogged to death.
Not withstanding that, Australia enjoys a relatively safe lifestyle. The incidents of unprovoked attack is rare. According to the Australian Bureau of statistics, the ratio on the per capita basis between australia and the US is 35 to 1. Australia being the lesser.
Recent stats show an ever greater reduction since the new gun regulations were imposed.

[THE BRONZE]

AussieCop, I talked with a former resident of your country about three months ago. He told me the violent crime rate had climbed since your new gun laws had gone into effect.

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Jim

[JB]

Y'all probably knew this, but Sarah Brady has admitted that she is willing to lie and distort real statistics if that's what it takes to get guns banned. Guns probably will be banned here in America. The thing that scares me is that, when I have a family of my own, I will not be allowed to own a firearm to protect them with because my 2 or 3 year old might shoot himself http://www.officer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif. Apparently, these scumballs have never heard of individual responsibility!
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The trespass law still exists in England so you can't walk willy nilly over peoples land down there.
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Oh, I get it! Instead of defending yourself, you're supose to let your attacker try to kill you while you try to call the police on the phone http://www.officer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

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JB
Romans 13:1-5

[MBH]

I don't think we are just going to wake up one morning next week and read a newspaper headline that says "All firearms in America banned" but I can see a slow progression taking place right now. Just think about the laws that have been passed in the last ten years or so. Limits on magazine capacity, importation of certain weapons, waiting periods, carry laws,etc. Some states you can't even have one in your vehicle if it's loaded. I'm not very familiar with most states gun laws except for Georgia but ours are not that strict for the law abiding. Over a period of time I think guns will become more and more heavily regulated until most firearm ownership will become illegal, similar to that of Australia and GB. Just look at what Gore wants to do. His plans don't really seem to put an end to gun ownership but they will take away a few bits and pieces of our freedom as far as gun ownership goes. Sooner or later it will be more and more of those bits and pieces until we are left with rifles and shotguns (no semi-autos), but only a certain number of them. Some people think that sounds paranoid but I don't.

Unarmed people are not citizens-They are subjects.

Just my views and opinions. Go NRA! http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif
MBH

[AussieCop]

Originally posted by THE BRONZE:
AussieCop, I talked with a former resident of your country about three months ago. He told me the violent crime rate had climbed since your new gun laws had gone into effect.


I do know what you are referring to. I also made the mistake a few months ago of saying that the crime rate had increased. A person or persons were e-mailing all over the place alleegedly quoting the Australian Bureau of Statistics. Some Magazines and Newspapers received the e-mails and went as far as making headline stories. The e-mails gave an internet address to the Australian bureau of statistics... it was something like www.abs.com (http://www.abs.com) It was a hoax site, as the correct Statistics site is something like www.abs.gov.au (http://www.abs.gov.au) The hoax site was from a foreign server hence no .au on the end of the address. If you have trouble finding it, I'll post the real URL address for the Australian Stats which show a very significant reduction in crime

[THE BRONZE]

Actually AussieCop, the former resident of your country I talked to had been a police officer in Australia, and had immigrated to the Unites States. I asked him if what the NRA was saying was true, or if things were being blown out of proportion. He told me the NRA was on target. He made things sound bleak.

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Jim

[Bob A]

There are a number of studies on this. I found a few when I was writing research papers in college. The preeminent man in the area of analyzing the stats is a guy named Gary Kleck, a criminology prof from Fla. (FSU, I think) Most of the stats thrown at us daily in the media have a pro-ban posture. (10 pro-ban per 1 pro-gun) BTW, I think if you take a closer look at the UK and Australia, you will see their violent crime rates have increased steadily since their laws have become more restrictive. What happens is the use of firearms is lowered (naturally) and misreported as lower violent crime. Incidentally, in the US of late, many states have adopted more liberal CCW policies. There are now 3 basic categories: Must issue, will issue, won't issue. In other words, the state must, may, or won't issue a permit. In every recent study, there is clear evidence of the murder rate (per 100k people) is double in won't issue states what it is in must issue states. And if you're one of those folks who thinks these numbers are skewed because you can go somewhere else and buy a gun, try again. We outlawed alcohol some years ago, and alcohol became easier to get than ever while murder rates skyrocketed. Once Prohibition ended, the murder rates declined every year for 11 years. We now have a similar situation with drugs. That which the American people cannot obtain legally, will find itself in great demand on the black market.