Another one who depended on a restraining order to protect her and ...

[Nancy]

Another casualty of "gun control" who followed the rules, believing that her
government would fulfill its most important responsibility: that of
protecting her life.

<< Shooting Victim Had Court Protection
.c The Associated Press

BIDWELL, Ohio (AP) - A woman whose estranged husband shot her to death at a
school before killing himself had obtained a court protection order accusing
him of slapping, choking and threatening to kill her.

Linda Shoemaker, 52, was shot several times by her husband, Frank, 66,
Tuesday morning while in her car at Bidwell-Porter Elementary School, where
she worked as a cook. She died at the scene.

No students or teachers were in the school when Mrs. Shoemaker was shot. The
school was closed Tuesday because of the shooting but classes resumed
Wednesday.

Within 30 minutes of the shooting at the school, Shoemaker had shot himself
in the head with the same gun he used to kill his wife, Coroner Dr. Daniel
Whiteley said. Shoemaker's body was found in a lawn chair in the front yard
of his home about eight miles from the school, Whiteley said.

Mrs. Shoemaker, who had recently moved out of their home in Bidwell, was
seeking a divorce after 31 years of marriage, officials said.

In her court protection petition, she said her husband had abused her
verbally and physically throughout their marriage. She said he had recently
begun stalking her and making threatening phone calls.

AP-NY-09-06-00 1244EDT
Copyright 2000 The Associated Press. >>

[G30man]

Spam, spam, spam...

[The Cynic]

Well lets see Nancy. I don't know about the state this occurred in but in my state when you get a restraining order put on you, the cops seize all your guns. This is a form of gun control, and one which I agree with, and maybe if it had been enacted the hubbie wouldn't have had his gun to shoot his wife. Granted if he really wanted to kill her there are bats, knives, etc, but those are a lot harder and less impersonal to use than a gun.

I guess I don't see the point of this link. It would seem to advocate more gun control is needed. Unless of course your saying that if she had a gun she would have killed her hubbie. If you think that then your delusional. If she had a gun, and if she had it out when hubbie showed up, and if it was loaded, and if he didn't surprise her, and if she managed to get the first shot off, and if the first shot was a mortal wound shot (a rarity), and if he didn't return fire then maybe her having a gun would have saved her life. A whole lot of ifs. Seizing his guns when he got the restraining order would have had a better chance.

[Rebecca]

Originally posted by G30man:
Spam, spam, spam...

I completely agree, G30man. I don't moderate on this forum... but I am hoping the other mods will get to this issue when they have time. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[TM]

I'm beginning to think Nancy is an automated bot that distributes anti-gun law stuff.

Do you have an off switch? http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Niteshift]

One of those rare times when TM and I agree.

*sleepy after reading Nancy-bot's posts*

------------------
Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[TM]

One of those rare times when TM and I agree.

AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Nancy-bot, LOL!

[Rebecca]

It's nice to see you two guys getting along, but you're not behaving yourselves. Yes, it's a matter of spamming the board at this point... but name calling is inappropriate... don't you both agree on that note, too?

[TM]

Sure do, but it's all in good humor. Is it an insult if Nancy doesn't take it as one?

We might never know if she just posts a new thread and never responds to anything in it.

(wonders if anyone knows what I am getting at)

[Niteshift]

If she ever reads it, replys to something (for a change) and says it offends her, then I'll feel a little remorse. Until then..............

------------------
Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[vampire13r]

I think her point is that nobody should have guns, but the truth is in cases like this the evil husband would have beaten the victim wife to death with a chair or something else.

[Nancy]

Originally posted by The Cynic:
Well lets see Nancy. I don't know about
Point is that restraining orders and cops can not protect a woman from a estrange spouse. The woman is resonsible for her OWN safety.
==============
the state this occurred in but in my state when you get a restraining order put on you, the cops seize all your guns.
---
FINE and dandy!
That still does NOT stop the estranged ex from killing her, does it? THE WOMAN NEEDS PROTECTION!

This is a form of gun control, and one which I agree with,

As do I and I DID NOT SAY ANY DIFFERENT< DID I?! All I said was that a restraining order did not save this woman.....


and maybe if it had been enacted the hubbie wouldn't have had his gun to shoot his wife.

maybe not, but Guns are not the only tools used to kill. the statistics in my state show that more domestic violence is committed with Hands and feet than guns.
========

Granted if he really wanted to kill her there are bats, knives, etc, but those are a lot harder and less impersonal to use than a gun.
-----
well Cynic, lets see now what you are saying is that a person who is beaten and killed by other means than a fiream is not so tragic , or they less dead , Cynic because they were sstrangled or killed in another fashion?
====
I guess I don't see the point of this link. It would seem to advocate more gun control is needed.
-----
MAYBE YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO READ OR AT LEAST COMPREHEND>.......
======
Unless of course your saying that if she had a gun she would have killed her hubbie.
-----
AWWWWW, There ya go, your a little slow but you might get there.....


Had she had a gun and known how to use it , she might still be alive , it's a 50/ 5o chance there , cynic, with no self defense weapon she had a ZERO chance...

=========
If you think that then your delusional.


If she had a gun, and if she had it out when hubbie showed up, and if it was loaded, and if he didn't surprise her, and if she managed to get the first shot off, and if the first shot was a mortal wound shot (a rarity), and if he didn't return fire then maybe her having a gun would have saved her life. A whole lot of ifs.
-----

what are the IF had when she didn't have it. Absolutely NONE, All was a certainty.... She'd end up beaten or worse.....

-------
Seizing his guns when he got the restraining order would have had a better chance.

had they seized his guns , she could still be just as dead!

[Nancy]

Originally posted by G30man:
Spam, spam, spam...

This is a gun control forum, no?

[Nancy]

Originally posted by Rebecca:
I completely agree, G30man. I don't moderate on this forum... but I am hoping the other mods will get to this issue when they have time. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif



And just what IS your definition of spam , Rebecca? Something you don't care to read. That's your perogative, my dear. Don't read and don't respond to it if you don't care to. Won't hurt my feelings one little bit!
My 1st amendment right is as important to me as my 2nd! You speak your mind and I'll speak mine, ok?

[Nancy]

Originally posted by TM:
I'm beginning to think Nancy is an automated bot that distributes anti-gun law stuff.
-----
SAy WHAT? ***-uming things again ,nightshift?
======
Do you have an off switch? http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
---
NOPE! sorry :P

[Nancy]

Originally posted by TM:
Sure do, but it's all in good humor. Is it an insult if Nancy doesn't take it as one?

I've been in this fight to long to worry about "insults"....

I believe in your freedom of speech even if you don't believe in mine....
======
(wonders if anyone knows what I am getting
-------
I wander if anybody cares http://www.officer.com/ubb/wink.gif

at)

[The Cynic]

http://www.officer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

[Niteshift]

Now, you've crossed a line Nancy.
"

SAy WHAT? ***-uming things again ,nightshift?"
======
You put a quote in from TM, that was not from this thread, in fact not even from gun control forum at all. You placed it in petween the rest of them and made it appear as if he said it in response to me about this issue. It is nothing less than a lie.


The simple facts are becoming clear to me Nancy. You believe in the RKBA, but you either cannot or will not think for yourself. You're chosen to limit yourself to only replying with words spoken by others first.

This has nothing, NOTHING to do with free speech. Freedom of speech does not apply to private entities. You can't make Time magazine print whatever you want. Officer.com is a privately owned forum. If you can't get a simple concept like that right, no wonder you're having such a hard time answering the very simple question I have been trying to get you to answer for weeks!

TM is right, you're nothing but a bot. A spam spewing propaganda bot.

------------------
Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[Rebecca]

And just what IS your definition of spam , Rebecca? Something you don't care to read. That's your perogative, my dear. Don't read and don't respond to it if you don't care to. Won't hurt my feelings one little bit!

Let's get a couple of things straight here, Nancy...

---I don't have one bit of a problem with you having an opinion... my problems are with the fact that you are failing to actually show one of your own with your own words!

---Your spamming consists of doing nothing but throwing out article after article and that's it. You are filling up the space on the board with a bunch of articles and doing nothing to add to or involve the other members in a discussion. What is the problem with you figuring out what the point here is? You have received a private warning to stop bashing the forum with the article after article deal and a good many members have asked you repeatedly to speak your own opinions... but yet... you just can't seem to get a clue. What is your problem with comprehension, Nancy?

---Don't try to figure out my answers for me, either Nancy... unlike you, I am verbal enough to answer your questions... and I am certainly not too chicken $hit to answer them. You have run from a number of questions you've been asked... but I guess you didn't have an article to cover the answers for you. Just ask me any question you want sweetheart... but remember that I'll answer them with my words... not yours!

---For the record, my dear, I haven't read or responded to any of the articles you have brought here... I'm responding to your lack of even responding to them yourself!

---You are a troll, Nancy... and out of the past three weeks worth of spamming you've done... this is the most we've heard from you at all.

---And, oh yes, dear... learn how to work the quotes if you actually plan to SAY MORE on the forum instead of spamming it every day! Here's the link for it...

http://www.officer.com/ubb/ubbcode.html

My 1st amendment right is as important to me as my 2nd!

Your first amendment rights don't mean diddly $hit on a privately owned forum... got that, Nancy? Offer your opinions... speak on in a discussion... but don't think you have a RIGHT to be here... because you don't. You've been ALLOWED.... there's a difference.

You speak your mind and I'll speak mine, ok?

I do speak my mind... it's about freakin' time you started speaking yours! And by the looks of how you DO respond when you finally make a damn attempt to... it's no wonder you only rely on articles to speak your mind for you. No matter whether you use an article or you come in ranting and raving... both are equally useless for anything constructive to take place!




[This message has been edited by Rebecca (edited 09-09-2000).]

[Jessica]

Whew...Next time I make a rant about my gun rights you guys better not say a word! http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Rant mode on:
Nancy,
I believe your intentions started out well. You would like to share your articles with those that may agree or disagree with your point of view. What you may not realize is the majority of officers here are supporters of the 2nd Amendment. I've only noticed a few who have opposed gun rights and one of them was from Australia!

I am a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment myself and I would suggest you try to take a less evasive approach when sharing your feelings.

I read an article once that has really stuck in my mind. The author criticized supporters of the 2nd Amendment for their tactics they used when approaching an anti-gun person. Keep in mind, this author was a very valued supporter for RKBA.

One of his strongest messages was about people writing on forums. In a few days, all that has been said here will be history! I recommend you extend your beliefs to your Senators, Governor, Congressmen, etc. After all, they are the men and women who hold our rights in the palms of their hands.

Rant mode off!


I

[Rebecca]

Here Nancy... let me show you how bringing about a discussion with a person's own personal opinion is done...

__________________________________________________ _____

I happen to disagree with women who insist on cramming their pro firearms view down the throats of other women for the sake of self protection. Some women have decided for themselves that they do not want to own or operate a firearm... and the pro gun gals tend to spout off about how stupid the rest of us are if we don't use, possess or carry. The emphasis is on the word "want" for a reason... because it's all about CHOICE!

In my opinion... they are pushy broads who need to learn about respecting the choices other's make in their own personal lives.

Does anyone else believe that some people are just too zealous to do any good for their cause?

(PS... I don't think all pro gun women are pushy broads... this is just an example of how some may hurt the whole cause by the way they handle themselves with it)

__________________________________________________ _____

There, Nancy... it's really not that hard to do. Give yourself a day or two and practice... and if you think you can handle it... we'd love to see you try.



[This message has been edited by Rebecca (edited 09-09-2000).]

[THE BRONZE]

Does anyone else believe that some people are just too zealous to do any good for their cause?

Yes!!!! http://www.officer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif But I

[G30man]

Nancy,
I would never dream of infringing on your 1st amendment right to cut and paste or to plagiarize others work. Keep up the good work. http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

BTW, spam is a processed luncheon meat and is very yummy, IMHO.

Mikey

[This message has been edited by G30man (edited 09-09-2000).]

[Niteshift]

Glad to see I'm not alone in this.

You're just boring me Nancy. I am very pro-RKBA, which is what pains me about you so much. You do as much damage to the lobby with your actions here as some others have done in the drug law section. You've taken a bunch of people who basicly agree with you and made them not even want to listen to what you have to say (or cut and paste, to be more accurate).

Don't think you little one line "Because it's UNCONSTITUTIONAL, duh!!!!" answers count as debating either. They don't. They simply show us that you haven't had time to go find an answer to cut and paste.

------------------
Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[The Cynic]

Nancy,
Niteshift hit it on the head. Just saying its unconstitutional isn't enough. If thats the sole basis for arguement then you should also be advocating things like pornography in prime time (a free speech violation) and absolutely no exceptions to the warrant requirement and consequently millions of now illegal arrest (a 4th amendment thing). Theres lots of things that are "unconstitutional" if you take the bill rights absolutely literally but you can't. If you did there would be chaos.

Although I do lean way left on some issues there are others I lean way right and this isn't one of them although I'm starting to feel like a liberal because of you http://www.officer.com/ubb/eek.gif.

[Niteshift]

I thought I was a strong supporter of the 2nd Amendment too. Now I'm feeling like a weak sister because I don't think that everyone should be allowed to have fully automatic weapons and that guns shouldn't be in the hands of convicted felons. http://www.officer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna