Federal law enforcement and "non-traditional" lifestyle -- incompatiable?

[Ceridwen]

Hi, I have two main questions, and several smaller ones. I'll start with some background on me -- I'm 27 years old, have a degree in organic chemistry but currently work as a pilot for a regional airline flying 50-seat jets. I love flying but I also have always been interested in law enforcement since I was a girl. I'm currently a captain and making fairly good coin but I may be downgraded back down to first officer / co-pilot due to reductions in our fleet and staffing in the next few months (while others less senior to me are going to be laid off completely) and thought this might be a good time to make a career change since I'll be most likely taking a paycut in a couple of months anyway.

Do many federal law enforcement agencies hire criminal investigators / special agents that have no previous law enforcement experience? I've never had any other job besides flying airplanes, except for when I worked at the GAP when I was in high school. I do have good grades from when I did go to college but I'm sure I've forgotten 50% of the chemistry I should have known. I am bilingual (English, Japanese) and I'm trying to learn Korean but am nowhere near fluent yet. I am a FFDO but the training was more like a week summer camp, but maybe it might be nice on the resume?

First question is: How do my qualifications look for an agency like the FBI or USSS? I've seen openings for air interdiction agents in CPB/ICE but most of the time they want time in type which means former-military pilots considering the aircraft they fly. Do other agencies have flying positions similar to this?

Second question: About the BI and more of the agency culture... I'm gay -- people would not know it from looking me -- I wear dresses, I don't walk in parades or rub it in anyone's face but at the same time I don't try to hide it either. So if/when I get interviewed I'm sure it will come out when they ask if I have (and can they talk to) my boyfriend/husband and I correct them. My question is... what do federal agencies feel about this subject? Airlines are kind of paramilitary organizations so I just rarely speak about my personal life at work but organizations like the FBI, USSS or DEA have even more conservative reputations so I dunno if that will be sufficient.

[sap123]

Second question: About the BI and more of the agency culture... I'm gay -- people would not know it from looking me -- I wear dresses, I don't walk in parades or rub it in anyone's face but at the same time I don't try to hide it either. So if/when I get interviewed I'm sure it will come out when they ask if I have (and can they talk to) my boyfriend/husband and I correct them. My question is... what do federal agencies feel about this subject? Airlines are kind of paramilitary organizations so I just rarely speak about my personal life at work but organizations like the FBI, USSS or DEA have even more conservative reputations so I dunno if that will be sufficient.

I don't want to put you on a pedestal or anything so I apologize if you aren't happy with this response, but this question is actually something that has puzzled me for a bit. I'm not an FLEO, I'm trying to be one, and with that comes trying to get perspectives on all aspects of life and how the culture operates and acts. I've always been interested in how what I perceive to be a very traditional group of people be able to take on someone like you that doesn't necessarily fit the mold per se.

I think it's puzzling; On one hand, if its anything I've learned connecting with recruiters, agents, career fairs, seminars, forum goers, it's that on a strict work experience level, these outfits look for people from all walks of life. There's no one cookie cutter way to decide if someone is right for any one agency. What ISN'T for certain is if there is a cookie cutter situation with agency culture. Anyways, I personally don't think you'd have a problem at all. I can't back that up, but that's my gut feeling.

I hope that last paragraph answered one of your questions: These agencies hire people from all around the block in terms of professions; you should apply to a few of them to get a feel of how you fare within the realm of FLE hiring processes and such.

[dpd0779]

I'm not sure what being gay has to do with getting a Federal job anymore than being heterosexual does. Define yourself by what skills and background you bring to the table, not your sexual preference.

I believe the FBI has entry positions for pilots.

[BD380]

The FBI might bring up your sexual orientation during the polygraph. They did it to me, and I'm a completely straight guy. I still have no idea what prompted it.

[kc12]

The homosexual issue is only an issue if it can lead to blackmail or coercion. Otherwise it is a non-issue and is not to be pursued during a BI. You might be questioned to the point of, "Can you subjected to blackmail or coercion due to your sexual orientation?" If you can't then the BI is supposed to move on.

As far as the rest I have no idea. The first thing I thought of was Air and Marine, but you touched on that, so I'm at a loss. Although have you thought of getting the training for the helicopters?

[a cashew]

CBP has loosened requirements lately for hiring for Air and Marine in terms of how many hours you need and such. Thats coming direct from someone OTJ now. Maybe take another look.

Also, CBP isn't just military helicopters. A lot of civilian ones, especially for surveillance.

[SlowDownThere]

Why would you consider only a Federal LEO job?

There are plenty of agencies (state and local) that hire pilots.

[Ceridwen]

Thanks everyone for your replies and it makes me feel a lot better about my chances.

Many state and local agencies hire pilots but I dont really want to be just a pilot anymore, if I can help it. Plus, while I have over 4000 hours in aircraft I don't know how to fly helicopters and that puts a lot of local agencies out of the question.

I am about halfway through a masters degree online so I think I may wait until I finish that in 11 months or so before I start the application process. I figure another 6-12 months after that before I know for sure, depending on the agency.

[verbalkint4]

CBP Air Interdiction Pilot (http://jobsearch.usajobs.gov/getjob.asp?JobID=71883308&AVSDM=2008%2D05%2D15+08%3A42%3A40&Logo=0&pg=6&jbf574=HSBD&lid=316&FedEmp=Y&sort=dt&vw=b&ss=0&brd=3876&FedPub=Y&caller=agency_search.asp)

Just throwing it out there. Rotocraft cert. is not a requirement, just at least a SEL or MEL comm. cert meeting the minimum time requirements. CBP has one of the largest law enforcement aircraft fleets in the country with the majority of the fleet being fixed wing. My understanding is CBP will also pay for your rotocraft cert. once you've spent some time flying fixed wing.

I'd give my right arm to be a pilot for Air and Marine but I think it would make me a pretty lousy pilot. :D

[SA13]

Do many federal law enforcement agencies hire criminal investigators / special agents that have no previous law enforcement experience?Yes, they do. Prior LE experience is just one of many backgrounds that the various fed LE agencie seek.Second question: About the BI and more of the agency culture... I'm gay . . . My question is... what do federal agencies feel about this subject? Not an issue at all. Sexual orientation is not a factor in getting hired.

I am actually surprised by the post that claims the FBI asked about homosexuality, because I've never heard of that from anyone hired in recent history, but also I know it's against the law to use sexual orientation as a factor in the hiring process.

[imallset2]

kc12 is correct. being gay in itself is not an issue. the only concern some agencies would have is the coercion factor.

does your family know? if they do i would say you are fine and it wont be a problem. however if they dont know and you dont want them to know that is a huge coercion risk.

[Ceridwen]

I am actually surprised by the post that claims the FBI asked about homosexuality, because I've never heard of that from anyone hired in recent history, but also I know it's against the law to use sexual orientation as a factor in the hiring process.
It actually isn't one of the federal "protected classes" like religion, sex, etc. So it is actually legal to discriminate based on sexual orientation on a federal level, which is why I was curious. In some states (not many) it is illegal, though.

does your family know? if they do i would say you are fine and it wont be a problem. however if they dont know and you dont want them to know that is a huge coercion risk.
Yeah, everyone knows. I knew my mom finally got over it a few years ago when she asked me why I couldn't date a nice Jewish girl.

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

[SA13]

It actually isn't one of the federal "protected classes" like religion, sex, etc. So it is actually legal to discriminate based on sexual orientation on a federal level, which is why I was curious.Not true.

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/fs-orientation_parent_marital_political.html

"In the federal government the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978 (CSRA), as amended, prohibits federal employees who have authority to take, direct others to take, recommend or approve any personnel action from discriminating against applicants and employees on the bases of race, color, sex, religion, national origin, age, disability, marital status or political affiliation and from discriminating against an applicant or employee on the basis of conduct which does not adversely affect the performance of the applicant or employee. The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) has interpreted the prohibition of discrimination based on "conduct" to include discrimination based on sexual orientation. See Addressing Sexual Orientation Discrimination in Federal Civilian Employment at http://www.opm.gov/er/address2/guide01.htm. "

[Ceridwen]

Ah, that is interesting. It is actually legal for a private party to discriminate based on sexual orientation (I know this) but I guess not for the federal government to do so. Good to know!

[ComicGuy]

A decade ago, Colorado tried to amend their constitution to discriminate against homosexual persons. The Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional. Seems pretty clear to me that private persons can be hammered for discrimination if the victim wants to take their complaint all the way to the top.

[mi562]

Hi, I have two main questions, and several smaller ones. I'll start with some background on me -- I'm 27 years old, have a degree in organic chemistry but currently work as a pilot for a regional airline flying 50-seat jets. I love flying but I also have always been interested in law enforcement since I was a girl. I'm currently a captain and making fairly good coin but I may be downgraded back down to first officer / co-pilot due to reductions in our fleet and staffing in the next few months (while others less senior to me are going to be laid off completely) and thought this might be a good time to make a career change since I'll be most likely taking a paycut in a couple of months anyway.

Do many federal law enforcement agencies hire criminal investigators / special agents that have no previous law enforcement experience? I've never had any other job besides flying airplanes, except for when I worked at the GAP when I was in high school. I do have good grades from when I did go to college but I'm sure I've forgotten 50% of the chemistry I should have known. I am bilingual (English, Japanese) and I'm trying to learn Korean but am nowhere near fluent yet. I am a FFDO but the training was more like a week summer camp, but maybe it might be nice on the resume?

First question is: How do my qualifications look for an agency like the FBI or USSS? I've seen openings for air interdiction agents in CPB/ICE but most of the time they want time in type which means former-military pilots considering the aircraft they fly. Do other agencies have flying positions similar to this?

Second question: About the BI and more of the agency culture... I'm gay -- people would not know it from looking me -- I wear dresses, I don't walk in parades or rub it in anyone's face but at the same time I don't try to hide it either. So if/when I get interviewed I'm sure it will come out when they ask if I have (and can they talk to) my boyfriend/husband and I correct them. My question is... what do federal agencies feel about this subject? Airlines are kind of paramilitary organizations so I just rarely speak about my personal life at work but organizations like the FBI, USSS or DEA have even more conservative reputations so I dunno if that will be sufficient.

Sending you an PM for more info on one of your questions!!

[Group 29]

Not true.

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/fs-orientation_parent_marital_political.html

"In the federal government the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978 (CSRA), as amended, prohibits federal employees who have authority to take, direct others to take, recommend or approve any personnel action from discriminating against applicants and employees on the bases of race, color, sex, religion, national origin, age, disability, marital status or political affiliation and from discriminating against an applicant or employee on the basis of conduct which does not adversely affect the performance of the applicant or employee. The Office of Personnel Management (OPM) has interpreted the prohibition of discrimination based on "conduct" to include discrimination based on sexual orientation. See Addressing Sexual Orientation Discrimination in Federal Civilian Employment at http://www.opm.gov/er/address2/guide01.htm. "

It has to do with the granting of a security clearance, a prerequisite to being hired, not the actual hiring itself, and it can be factored in if it could lead to your being coerced, the same as a married person who was having an affair that no one knew about. It has nothing to do with your sexual orientation, so the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978 is not operative.

When I was conducting SSBI's (not that long ago) we were told that if a gay person or a straight person, had sexual behavior that we uncovered, that they were trying to hide, that could be used against them in a blackmail situation, it was to be documented in the background investigation. That is completely different from discrimnating against them because they are gay or straight.

Being gay is not a bar to being an 1811. Having an affair is not a bar to being an 1811. Doing either one and trying to hide it to the point that all indicators are that disclosure of it could be used to coerce you, is a bar to being an 1811 (along with a lot of other things that are similiar in nature).

[LT Dangle]

The hiring process will not be your issue as long as you disclose and do not attempt to conceal it.

AFTER the hiring process is the problem. See PM for info.

[SlowDownThere]

The hiring process will not be your issue as long as you disclose and do not attempt to conceal it.

AFTER the hiring process is the problem. See PM for info.

What does this mean?

After the hiring process she can expect problems?

I'd appreciate a similar PM if you care to.

[robeans]

Hi, I have two main questions, and several smaller ones. I'll start with some background on me -- I'm 27 years old, have a degree in organic chemistry but currently work as a pilot for a regional airline flying 50-seat jets. I love flying but I also have always been interested in law enforcement since I was a girl. I'm currently a captain and making fairly good coin but I may be downgraded back down to first officer / co-pilot due to reductions in our fleet and staffing in the next few months (while others less senior to me are going to be laid off completely) and thought this might be a good time to make a career change since I'll be most likely taking a paycut in a couple of months anyway.

Do many federal law enforcement agencies hire criminal investigators / special agents that have no previous law enforcement experience? I've never had any other job besides flying airplanes, except for when I worked at the GAP when I was in high school. I do have good grades from when I did go to college but I'm sure I've forgotten 50% of the chemistry I should have known. I am bilingual (English, Japanese) and I'm trying to learn Korean but am nowhere near fluent yet. I am a FFDO but the training was more like a week summer camp, but maybe it might be nice on the resume?

First question is: How do my qualifications look for an agency like the FBI or USSS? I've seen openings for air interdiction agents in CPB/ICE but most of the time they want time in type which means former-military pilots considering the aircraft they fly. Do other agencies have flying positions similar to this?

Second question: About the BI and more of the agency culture... I'm gay -- people would not know it from looking me -- I wear dresses, I don't walk in parades or rub it in anyone's face but at the same time I don't try to hide it either. So if/when I get interviewed I'm sure it will come out when they ask if I have (and can they talk to) my boyfriend/husband and I correct them. My question is... what do federal agencies feel about this subject? Airlines are kind of paramilitary organizations so I just rarely speak about my personal life at work but organizations like the FBI, USSS or DEA have even more conservative reputations so I dunno if that will be sufficient.

Current pilot = CBP Air Interdiction Pilot!

CBP Air and Marine Division is probably the best federal LE outfit right now. It's small and little known, but they have huge authoriTIE and have big funding. They are always in need of pilots and have a fleet of Citations for interdiction.

[Group 29]

Current pilot = CBP Air Interdiction Pilot!

CBP Air and Marine Division is probably the best federal LE outfit right now. It's small and little known, but they have huge authoriTIE and have big funding. They are always in need of pilots and have a fleet of Citations for interdiction.

If you like boats, it's hard to figure what would be a better job than being in the marne division :D

[toughjerseyguy]

deleted.....

[TheKansan]

Although I find your lifestyle/orientation deplorable, in my experience gay females are much better suited to be employed as a LEO than straight females.

Totally unnecessary. Sometimes it's better to just keep your opinions to yourself.

[Group 29]

I'll admit that this wasn't always my opinion.

But, now, I figure that anyone who lives a gay lifestyle, with all of the crap that goes along with it, must have a pretty strong predeliction to be that way. If being gay is part of the formula that makes you happy, it is none of my business.

As long as you do a good job for me, give me most of your day, don't bitch, and most importantly, makes cases and arrests, I could care less if you are gay or not. Gay or straight, just be professional, competent, and work hard, and in every department or agency I have worked with or for, you will be fine.

[fedguy889]

I work with several gay females, one very out and proud and the other is not so out. Both have no issues whatsoever.

Best of luck to you :)

[sap123]

Although I find your lifestyle/orientation deplorable, in my experience gay females are much better suited to be employed as a LEO than straight females.

Ahahaha I bet you feel like a real tough guy now don't you.

[SA13]

Although I find your lifestyle/orientation deplorable, in my experience gay females are much better suited to be employed as a LEO than straight females.Wow. I've seen a lot of ignorant, narrow-minded, unintelligent, and immature posts on this forum, but that one takes the prize.

BTW, if you really were "tough", you wouldn't be so insecure that you would believe such nonsense AND feel the need to broadcast such drivel publicly. You also wouldn't feel the need to have picked such a lame username. Declaring yourself tough in such a manner is pretty much proof positive that you aren't.

[deputy x 2]

Although I find your lifestyle/orientation deplorable, in my experience gay females are much better suited to be employed as a LEO than straight females.

How did this one get by me? How rude mr toughjerseyguy! I can't even say toughjerseyguy with a straight (no pun intended) face! :D:D

Deplorable??? No one asked you about YOUR personal feelings. She is inquiring about agency culture.

better suited to be employed as a LEO than straight females?? OMFG!!! What a sexist. How do you feel about women in general? You must be a treat to work next to...note the word omitted was "with".

Here's a quick lesson: Gay 101
Gay is an adjective, a term used to refer to a persons sexual orientation.
You are either straight or gay.
Men are Gay.
Females are Lesbians.
Say the word aloud..Lesbian..Lesbian...Lesbian. :eek::eek: Now that wasn't hard was it?
It is incorrect to refer to a Lesbian as a gay female.
Now that you live in California..the gay mecca of the US..(no one told you that before you moved huh) please take the time to at least educate one self on the terminology.
With that.... class is now dismissed.:D:D

PS: Just because a woman won't date you doesn't mean she's a lesbian!:p:p

[deputy x 2]

Ceridwen

To answer your question..it doesn't matter straight/gay its about being able to do the job..period.

Good luck in whatever you choose to pursue.

[Ceridwen]

Thanks everyone for the posts (except jerseyguy.) I have sent my stuff in for CBP Air Interdiction pilot and also have started masters degree program (which I can convert to part-time/online if I do get hired down the road) also.

The airline industry is imploding around me.

[GoldBadge]

Thanks everyone for the posts (except jerseyguy.) I have sent my stuff in for CBP Air Interdiction pilot and also have started masters degree program (which I can convert to part-time/online if I do get hired down the road) also.

The airline industry is imploding around me.

You should do just fine.

FTIW, I would never have an issue working with a gay agent - male or female. I used to work with a great cop who ultimately came out of the closet as gay. It made no difference to anyone.

Best of luck.

[SA13]

Here's a quick lesson: Gay 101
Gay is an adjective, a term used to refer to a persons sexual orientation.
You are either straight or gay.
Men are Gay.
Females are Lesbians.
Say the word aloud..Lesbian..Lesbian...Lesbian. :eek::eek: Now that wasn't hard was it?
It is incorrect to refer to a Lesbian as a gay female.
Now that you live in California..the gay mecca of the US..(no one told you that before you moved huh) please take the time to at least educate one self on the terminology.
With that.... class is now dismissed.While agree that toughjerseyguy is a tool, this little "lesson" is over the top PC nonsense.

Please note that the female who started this thread described herself as "gay" not "lesbian." So are you saying that her own description of herself is wrong?

[deputy x 2]

While agree that toughjerseyguy is a tool, this little "lesson" is over the top PC nonsense.

Please note that the female who started this thread described herself as "gay" not "lesbian." So are you saying that her own description of herself is wrong?

Gay is an adjective, a term used to refer to a persons sexual orientation. She simply said she was "gay". So her statement was correct.

My Gay 101 lesson was (done in humor) directed toward mr toughjerseycop's inability to understand diversity.:D:D

That's all..back to the topic.

[TJMS81]

I have sent my stuff in for CBP Air Interdiction pilot and also have started masters degree program (which I can convert to part-time/online if I do get hired down the road) also.

The airline industry is imploding around me.

Another avenue to expore if this doesn't work for you is US Fish & Wildlife Service advertises 0025 LEO pilots occasionally. The last few that I saw were developmental 5/7/9/11/12's so that could at least be a foot in the door to move over to CBP. I don't have the flight time required so didn't apply.

Good luck in the transition!

[chunk]

They're flying Dash-8's, CE500s, C-206s, PC-12's, etc. etc. etc.

Not exactly military fare...