shotgun rifle combo...

[ferret]

in reading the latest issue of SWAT magazine, i came accross and article on the crossfire mk-1 a shotgun rifle combo. i was wondering if anyone here had any expirence with this gun or any other 12 gauge-.223 over under guns? just curious about how well it works, beyond the tests they put it though in the article.

thanks,
ferret

stay safe out there

[Niteshift]

I read a T&E by Massad Ayoob on the Crossfire and he kind of liked it.

A suggestion for you: Last week, I filled out Crossfire's form to request one for T&E. They loan them out to depts. for that, so give them a call and have them send you the format they need put onto dept. letterhead.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[ferret]

i would write then... but...

i'm not an LEO yet...
i'm not old enough to own that cal rifle
and i am just intested in how well it works, i like to learn about guns, ballistics, and how well those things work.
its a really good idea from a tactical standpoint.

but after you get a hold of it if you remember write how it worked.

thanks
ferret

stay safe out there

[Sparky]

I don't know about the new crossfire gizmo, but there is a model of the m-16 that has a 12ga mounted under it.

It is HEAVY. VERY HEAVY! The 12ga only holds, four plus one (i think??) plus you gotta lug around the extra 12ga ammo (VERY HEAVY)

In the end, all you get is an additional weapon that is only good at fairly close range.

Not very practical. Sometimes needed depending on mission requirments, but overall, not very practical.

You sound like a pretty young guy. So I'll tell you this. Take everything you read in some of those gun magazines with a little grain of salt. Alot of them are "advertorials". Have you ever noticed how few BAD reviews that weapons get??? Not many. In my line of work, we call that a "clue".

I used to read those things from cover to cover. But now, with a little "real world" experience, I realize that they can be alot of junk. Some are very good, don't get me wrong, but they can also be very misleading.

Also, If you are really, really interested in weapons and such. You may want to strongly consider the military. You can sign up as a Samll Arms Armorer and believe me, you will get all the training on weapons you will almost ever want. PLUS, you'll get to learn about the context of various weapons usage.

OH!, you may find this website interesting:
www.firearmstactical.com (http://www.firearmstactical.com)

Hopefully, you'll become a skilled armorer and move to my area. I could use a good armorer!!

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-Sparky

[ferret]

sparky,

i am fairly young and the military is one of two choices for my 4 years before i am old enough to be a LEO. that or college.

i am a new reader to SWAT but they do tell you about the bad parts about new firearms as well as old ones. more then most other magzines do. but thats why i asked here, to see if anyone did have real life expirence with it.

i got to hold one of those m16 12 gauge combos, as well as the ones with the granade launcher on it... and they are both really heavy with no ammo on them, i was suprised at how much the attachment to the underside of the barrel wieghed.

ferret

stay safe out there

[Sparky]

They get really heavy after you ruck march about twenty miles or so!!!

Of course tactical ops aren't usually that long and weight isn't that much of an issue. But be that as it may, from the viewpoint of a former swatter, the overunder thing isn't all that practical.

But then again, that's only my opinion.

I wouldn't mind having one around the house though!!!

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-Sparky

[Niteshift]

Sparky, the Crossfire is reversed, an AR-15 build under a pump 12 ga. The .223 part fires by pump action too.

True, a lot of the reposts are biased. I tend to stick with certain writers. I do respect Ayoob, although some disagree.

I don't think this gun is set to replace much in the SWAT arsenal. I see it as a gun that can be used by a patrol cop, primarily as a shotgun, but with the option of the rifle. Think about how fast the BoA robbery would have ended if the LAPD had these in their patrol cars. Couple of .223's downrange, bad guy at room temperature.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[EYEGOR]

I'm somewhat of a "gadget" person so the crossfire appeals to me. The two main applications I thought of was a "tower gun" at your local gray bar hotel and as the entry gun for a forcible entry team. ie. Use the shotgun to blow doors or use specialty munitons while having .223 IN your hands. No transition.

[Delta_V]

Originally posted by Niteshift:
I read a T&E by Massad Ayoob on the Crossfire and he kind of liked it.

It's been my observation that Massad Ayoob and most other gunwriters are quick to sing the praises of new guns...especially if the manufacturer advertises in the magazine or they are given a free model. Although I do respect Ayoob's experience, I rarely ever see him give a gun a negative report (although the guns that he tests are for the most part at the top of the line). Gun Tests magazine is the only truely unbiased one out there.

IMO, I don't see this type of weapon going into mainstream LE use. SWAT already has a good choice of weaponry, and as unfortunate as it is, this type of firearm just isn't 'politically correct' enough for the average patrol officer to carry in their vehicle. As neat as this weapon might look, I don't think the shotgun beats a Benelli or the rifle beats an AR-15. It's a good idea to combine the two, but I can see some 'citizen groups' crying out about patrol officers carrying such 'firepower,' as there's enough opposition when departments equip their officers with AR-15s.


[This message has been edited by PatrickM98 (edited 04-22-2001).]

[Sotex]

In addition to the above, I believe the dang thing retails for around $1800! It's not worth the price for me.

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God, I love my job!-Porthos