Could I Be Wrong? Say it Ain't So! - AMERICAN VALUES

[1042 Trooper]

Okay - Maybe I do have it all wrong. :eek: What are "American" values? :confused:

[tehJet]

Well, I'd say that it depends on who you ask.

Besides the fact that not all "American" values may be considered good, while others can.

In that I mean, that there's some things that many people both in our country and around the world, think of when they think of America, some of which are admirable and others are not.

For example, I think Americans value inginuity, bravery, pride, hard work, etc.

But at the same time, it seems we put too much account into making money at any cost, being overly-agressive concerning our interests and not caring what most of the other world thinks of our actions.

[TheKansan]

I'm voting for the Beach Boys.

[SkepticAlways]

Based on my observations the main American values seem to be materialism, consumerism, anti-intellectualism...superstision over reason...violence as entertianment...violence as the first problem solving tool...might makes right...borrow and spend, and save nothing...form over function...leisure before work...finger pointing instread of personal responsibility.

Thats not what it should be, but thats what it appears to be today.

[LAschoolCop]

Obviously American values vary from one person to another and everybody seems to think they are right. If your values help you and your family then they are the right values for you. We can go back and forth all day about who is right and who is wrong but in the end we will still be in the same place.

[M-11]

Appreciating what you have, being willing to work hard for more, and being willing to fight to keep it that way.

M-11

[Stormy]

Okay - Maybe I do have it all wrong. :eek: What are "American" values? :confused:

You have a gift for asking wise questions. Let's see how long before this thread gets sidetracked, like into religion...again?, like all the other questions you've asked/posted, and seldom got a decent answer.:D:cool::D

[crimijuswoman]

I think alot of American values stem somewhat from how we were brought up as individuals from childhood. Although not entirely. I surely did not believe the same way as my parents did polictly and still don't (I still anger my Dad to this day regarding that) I think it also depends on what time era you were from. I think alot of the 70 and 80s generation were more geared toward the old American values. After it was more about change and being polictically correct. Not that all change is bad. I think for the most part we all, no matter what time era we were from still have pride in our country and helping our fellow man or woman, lol! I think it showed during the tragedy of 911.

[Stormy]

Appreciating what you have, being willing to work hard for more, and being willing to fight to keep it that way.

M-11

It'd be nice if you can expand your statement; 'appreciate what you have'.....what is it we have?; 'willing to work hard for more'.......of what?; '..willing to fight to keep it that way'....what way?

No attack here. Just think you might be on the right track, but need more coal in the engine.:)

[Stormy]

I think alot of American values stem somewhat from how we were brought up as individuals from childhood. Although not entirely. I surely did not believe the same way as my parents did polictly and still don't (I still anger my Dad to this day regarding that) I think it also depends on what time era you were from. I think alot of the 70 and 80s generation were more geared toward the old American values.


And what were they?

After it was [b]more about change and being polictically correct. Not that all change is bad. I think for the most part we all, no matter what time era we were from still have pride in our country and helping our fellow man or woman, lol! I think it showed during the tragedy of 911.

[bold highlite mine]

Please expand your statement; what change are you talking about? How does 'politically correct' affect American values? What showed 'during the tragedy of 9/11?

No attack here. Just need you to clarify your statement.

[crimijuswoman]

well once again, only what I was brought up in and most of my friends were equally brought up to believe that we respect our country and all who have and continue to fight for our flag. Slowly, and only in my opinion, in the late 80's it seemed that we began to question what our country did and stood for. It appeared at least to me that we started becoming more sensitive. Alot of the older generation, like from my grandfather's generation disagreed, thought this is what has hurt America overall. Sorry, I probably didn't help clear it up that much, hard to explain.

[M-11]

It'd be nice if you can expand your statement; 'appreciate what you have'.....what is it we have?; 'willing to work hard for more'.......of what?; '..willing to fight to keep it that way'....what way?

No attack here. Just think you might be on the right track, but need more coal in the engine.

The statement is intentionally broad.

Appreciate what you have means different things to people. While it might mean being content in life, it can also mean you have the ability to still see the positive even in hard times. This is a useful trait to have in a Republic guided by the votes of millions. That many opinons can't always go your way, so recognize how good you have it.

Working hard for more means no matter what your social/Economic status, there is a good chance you can do better if you try. This is a cornerstone factor of the American Economy, and the true beauty of it is that if you choose not to step up and better yourself in the pursuit of advancement, someone else will. If you have ever worked in Corporate America or filed for a Patent you know what I mean.

Willing to fight to keep it that way...That's easy. The first two values I named are moot if someone comes to take what you've got, or try to keep you from what you want. This is applicable in every circumstance from vying for promotion to War on an international scale.

America, for all it's problems, is a great place to live. This is one of the only places on earth where those who live in poverty have a pretty good chance of being obese. Most of the things we disagree about and argue over are completely overshadowed by the fact we all have it pretty good. Most of the people that fight about politics here can only do it because they have a TV and the Internet in their homes. If this is the case, we're not doing too bad.

Most folks just have the overwhelming desire to argue with people.

M-11

[cmr164]

From your poll choices, I'd say you have it completely wrong. Not that I am surprised, just sad...

[BigPat]

I don't label myself as a liberal or conservative, but I wonder about calling bigger government and less individual freedom a "liberal" value. The federal deficit just hit a record high under our current "conservative" administration. So much for conservatives not liking big government. Also,the "family values" type conservatives most certainly do not fvor more individual rights....

[Eclipse27]

Keeping to yourself, and driving like an *******.

[Chit2001]

I don't label myself as a liberal or conservative, but I wonder about calling bigger government and less individual freedom a "liberal" value. The federal deficit just hit a record high under our current "conservative" administration. So much for conservatives not liking big government. Also,the "family values" type conservatives most certainly do not fvor more individual rights....

Pat.... You've GOT to know better than this! Come on....

You're telling me that you believe GWB is a Conservative???

I don't care WHAT the hell he claims to be.... as far as Liberal actions go, he's almost on the same level as slick Willy. He has spent this country into oblivion. He is NOT a Conservative.

[Stormy]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPat View Post
I don't label myself as a liberal or conservative, but I wonder about calling bigger government and less individual freedom a "liberal" value. The federal deficit just hit a record high under our current "conservative" administration. So much for conservatives not liking big government. Also,the "family values" type conservatives most certainly do not fvor more individual rights....

Pat.... You've GOT to know better than this! Come on....

You're telling me that you believe GWB is a Conservative???

I don't care WHAT the hell he claims to be.... as far as Liberal actions go, he's almost on the same level as slick Willy. He has spent this country into oblivion. He is NOT a Conservative.

Let's just say.......his spending indicates he's not on America's side. That's the way I see it.

[BigPat]

Pat.... You've GOT to know better than this! Come on....

You're telling me that you believe GWB is a Conservative???

I don't care WHAT the hell he claims to be.... as far as Liberal actions go, he's almost on the same level as slick Willy. He has spent this country into oblivion. He is NOT a Conservative.

I know that technically G.W. Bush is not a fiscal conservative, however, he is pretty much the standard bearer of the current neo-conservative movement. I think it is hard to associate the terms "conservative" and "fiscal conrservative"e any more. Gone are the days of the Newt Gingrich style Republicans, who, despite some really bad ideas, could always be counted on to push fiscal responsibility.

As to Clinton, we left Clinton's term with a substantial budget surplus (to be fair, the congress deserves teh majority of the credit for the surplus).

[Chit2001]

As to Clinton, we left Clinton's term with a substantial budget surplus (to be fair, the congress deserves teh majority of the credit for the surplus).

Bingo! I was hoping you were going to mention that. I started to get worked up there towards the end until I saw the last sentence. ;)

[djack16]

Depends on what year and season. If it's election time American values can include denigrating your fellow citizen, lying and dishonesty on the issues, etc. It's a beautiful and terrible machine at the same time. It is these reasons though that make people so disgusted with the election cycle.

Trooper these types of posts, especially if you are the author, are not designed for meaningful discourse. At its core it's about getting people angry or hating liberalism. Divide divide divide. I can tell you didn't check box number 4 in your weird little survey.

[1042 Trooper]

Trooper these types of posts, especially if you are the author, are not designed for meaningful discourse. At its core it's about getting people angry or hating liberalism. Divide divide divide.

So what's your point? :D Something wrong with hating liberal ideology? I think liberalism is the most ignorant, illogical, uninformed, crybaby, self-serving, Marxist and unfair set of values on earth.

What's not to hate?

And I do not hate liberals themselves - just their twisted logic.

[LeanG]

Yeah.......there are 300 million Americans, so expect each individual to value and cherish something different.

There are no "American" values, per say. There are some "norms", but as with anything, they change over time.

[Stormy]

Yeah.......there are 300 million Americans, so expect each individual to value and cherish something different.

There are no "American" values, per say. There are some "norms", but as with anything, they change over time.



A very astute, and solid conclusion. No poster has yet provided a set of 'American Values' akin to the religious 10 Commandments, and never will, because there are [b]none. America's so-called 'values' are based around the criminal and civil laws which guide our actions; step out of bounds and watch yourself be slammed into jail, or stripped of your life's savings.

[Jellybean400]

More things more things...

BUY more things buy more things... :D

[Stormy]

More things more things...

BUY more things buy more things... :D

Good philosophy.....no more!! Peruse the list below to get the feeling of how times are changing. But let's think on a positive note here; there'll be less burglaries, less shoplifting. and less parking lot crime, amazing what a failing economy brings to our community. :)

Ann Taylor closing 117 stores nationwide.

Eddie Bauer to close more stores after closing 27 stores in the first quarter.

Cache, a women’s retailer is closing 20 to 23 stores this year.

Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug, Catherines closing 150 stores nationwide

Talbots, J. Jill closing stores. Talbots will close all 78 of its kids and men's stores plus another 22 underperforming stores. The 22 stores will be a mix of Talbots women's and J. Jill.

Gap Inc. closing 85 stores

Foot Locker to close 140 stores

Wickes Furniture is going out of business and closing all of its stores. The 37-year-old retailer that targets middle-income customers, filed for bankruptcy protection last month.

Levitz - the furniture retailer, announced it was going out of business and closing all 76 of its stores in December. The retailer dates back to 1910.

Zales, Piercing Pagoda plans to close 82 stores by July 31 followed by closing another 23 underperforming stores.

Disney Store owner has the right to close 98 stores.

Home Depot store closings 15 of them amid a slumping US economy and housing market. The move will affect 1,300 employees. It is the first time the world's largest home improvement store chain has ever closed a flagship store.

CompUSA (CLOSED).

Macy's - 9 stores closed

Movie Gallery – video rental company plans to close 400 of 3,500 Movie Gallery

and Hollywood Video stores in addition to the 520 locations the video rental

chain closed last fall as part of bankruptcy.

Pacific Sunwear - 153 Demo stores closing

Pep Boys - 33 stores of auto parts supplier closing

Sprint Nextel - 125 retail locations to close with 4,000 employees following 5,000 layoffs last year.

J. C. Penney, Lowe's and Office Depot are all scaling back

Ethan Allen Interiors: plans to close 12 of 300 stores to cut costs.

Wilsons the Leather Experts – closing 158 stores

Bombay Company: to close all 384 U.S.-based Bombay Company stores.

KB Toys closing 356 stores around the United States as part of its bankruptcy reorganization.

Dillard's Inc. will close another six stores this year.

[Jellybean400]

:D:D:D:cool::D:D Good philosophy.....no more!!



I should have added a couple of these ":rolleyes:" - because it's not MY philosophy ;)

[LAschoolCop]

:D:D:D:cool::D:D Good philosophy.....no more!!

Ann Taylor closing 117 stores nationwide.

Eddie Bauer to close more stores after closing 27 stores in the first quarter.

Cache, a women’s retailer is closing 20 to 23 stores this year.

Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug, Catherines closing 150 stores nationwide

Talbots, J. Jill closing stores. Talbots will close all 78 of its kids and men's stores plus another 22 underperforming stores. The 22 stores will be a mix of Talbots women's and J. Jill.

Gap Inc. closing 85 stores

Foot Locker to close 140 stores

Wickes Furniture is going out of business and closing all of its stores. The 37-year-old retailer that targets middle-income customers, filed for bankruptcy protection last month.

Levitz - the furniture retailer, announced it was going out of business and closing all 76 of its stores in December. The retailer dates back to 1910.

Zales, Piercing Pagoda plans to close 82 stores by July 31 followed by closing another 23 underperforming stores.

Disney Store owner has the right to close 98 stores.

Home Depot store closings 15 of them amid a slumping US economy and housing market. The move will affect 1,300 employees. It is the first time the world's largest home improvement store chain has ever closed a flagship store.

CompUSA (CLOSED).

Macy's - 9 stores closed

Movie Gallery – video rental company plans to close 400 of 3,500 Movie Gallery

and Hollywood Video stores in addition to the 520 locations the video rental

chain closed last fall as part of bankruptcy.

Pacific Sunwear - 153 Demo stores closing

Pep Boys - 33 stores of auto parts supplier closing

Sprint Nextel - 125 retail locations to close with 4,000 employees following 5,000 layoffs last year.

J. C. Penney, Lowe's and Office Depot are all scaling back

Ethan Allen Interiors: plans to close 12 of 300 stores to cut costs.

Wilsons the Leather Experts – closing 158 stores

Bombay Company: to close all 384 U.S.-based Bombay Company stores.

KB Toys closing 356 stores around the United States as part of its bankruptcy reorganization.

Dillard's Inc. will close another six stores this year.

Is Wal-Mart gunna be the only thing left??? :)

[Stormy]

Is Wal-Mart gunna be the only thing left??? :)

Wal-Mart is busy drumming up a cadre of employees to vote Republican. Seems Obama is a threat to Wal-Mart's importing of goods from China. Can you imagine....Wal-Mart employees, mostly from democratic backgrounds forced to vote republican?

[Ex Army MP]

Obviously American values vary from one person to another and everybody seems to think they are right. If your values help you and your family then they are the right values for you. We can go back and forth all day about who is right and who is wrong but in the end we will still be in the same place.

I couldn't disagree more. You statement suggests there is no right and wrong, just difference of opinion. It's sort of like the cultural relativism argument that they use in the Middle East to justify honor killings.

Values aren't merely subjective. They are objective in that they are what reasonably, prudent and responsible people live by. A few examples of bad or no values:

1. How about the 16 and 17 year old girls who get pregnant and have children out of wedlock? Every single one of them, with no exception, is on some form of public assistance. Even if it's not welfare it's WIC or Medicaid. Now, you may say that some people make mistakes and I tend to agree. However, many of these young ladies are not only not embarrassed, they are proud of this. They know they'll be well taken care of.

2. How about the young man who sits at home and plays X Box instead of looking for a job to support his kids? Is this merely a difference of opinion?

3. How about the person who allows a cashier to give him too much change and doesn't say anything? Ah what the heck? Everybody does it, right?

4. How about the record number of college kids who cheat on exams? No big deal?

This is what I am talking about and the reason why Springer and reality TV thrive. We have to be PC otherwise we are "judging". It's all about doing what feels right and not what's actually right. There's no shame or humility and that's a problem.

When I think of a person who has values I think of Vince Piazza, Mike Piazza's dad. This guy worked form sun up to sun down everyday while never looking at a clock and became a multi millionaire. I think of Jim Braddock, subject of the movie " Cinderella man", who had to swallow his pride and accept a handout during the Great Depression. Upon earning his first big payday, he went to the welfare office and gave it back. Or, how about all of the folks who work two jobs to support their kids? These are the people that I respect.

So yeah, there are right and wrong values.

[mjhoyt27]

Wal-Mart is busy drumming up a cadre of employees to vote Republican. Seems Obama is a threat to Wal-Mart's importing of goods from China. Can you imagine....Wal-Mart employees, mostly from democratic backgrounds forced to vote republican?

I think it has more to do, with Walmart not wanting their employees to form unions.

[mjhoyt27]

I couldn't disagree more. You statement suggests there is no right and wrong, just difference of opinion. It's sort of like the cultural relativism argument that they use in the Middle East to justify honor killings.

Values aren't merely subjective. They are objective in that they are what reasonably, prudent and responsible people live by. A few examples of bad or no values:

1. How about the 16 and 17 year old girls who get pregnant and have children out of wedlock? Every single one of them, with no exception, is on some form of public assistance. Even if it's not welfare it's WIC or Medicaid. Now, you may say that some people make mistakes and I tend to agree. However, many of these young ladies are not only not embarrassed, they are proud of this. They know they'll be well taken care of.

2. How about the young man who sits at home and plays X Box instead of looking for a job to support his kids? Is this merely a difference of opinion?

3. How about the person who allows a cashier to give him too much change and doesn't say anything? Ah what the heck? Everybody does it, right?

4. How about the record number of college kids who cheat on exams? No big deal?

This is what I am talking about and the reason why Springer and reality TV thrive. We have to be PC otherwise we are "judging". It's all about doing what feels right and not what's actually right. There's no shame or humility and that's a problem.

When I think of a person who has values I think of Vince Piazza, Mike Piazza's dad. This guy worked form sun up to sun down everyday while never looking at a clock and became a multi millionaire. I think of Jim Braddock, subject of the movie " Cinderella man", who had to swallow his pride and accept a handout during the Great Depression. Upon earning his first big payday, he went to the welfare office and gave it back. Or, how about all of the folks who work two jobs to support their kids? These are the people that I respect.

So yeah, there are right and wrong values.

There is no way to prove those stats in #1. #2 made me laugh, because those are the worse type of people.

[LAschoolCop]

I couldn't disagree more. You statement suggests there is no right and wrong, just difference of opinion. It's sort of like the cultural relativism argument that they use in the Middle East to justify honor killings.

Values aren't merely subjective. They are objective in that they are what reasonably, prudent and responsible people live by. A few examples of bad or no values:

1. How about the 16 and 17 year old girls who get pregnant and have children out of wedlock? Every single one of them, with no exception, is on some form of public assistance. Even if it's not welfare it's WIC or Medicaid. Now, you may say that some people make mistakes and I tend to agree. However, many of these young ladies are not only not embarrassed, they are proud of this. They know they'll be well taken care of.

2. How about the young man who sits at home and plays X Box instead of looking for a job to support his kids? Is this merely a difference of opinion?

3. How about the person who allows a cashier to give him too much change and doesn't say anything? Ah what the heck? Everybody does it, right?

4. How about the record number of college kids who cheat on exams? No big deal?

This is what I am talking about and the reason why Springer and reality TV thrive. We have to be PC otherwise we are "judging". It's all about doing what feels right and not what's actually right. There's no shame or humility and that's a problem.

When I think of a person who has values I think of Vince Piazza, Mike Piazza's dad. This guy worked form sun up to sun down everyday while never looking at a clock and became a multi millionaire. I think of Jim Braddock, subject of the movie " Cinderella man", who had to swallow his pride and accept a handout during the Great Depression. Upon earning his first big payday, he went to the welfare office and gave it back. Or, how about all of the folks who work two jobs to support their kids? These are the people that I respect.

So yeah, there are right and wrong values.

In your opinion but some people may feel those are acceptable. LOL I've never done #3 & #4 ;);)