Got my non-select letter today...

[avalon42]

...from SDSU PD. At least, it looks like a non-select letter because it had the line in it "you will not be selected for the position at this time."

It also stated that I must wait (2) years before trying to apply again, so I guess I know that's how long the Chief wants to wait before seeing my mug back in his office again. It was signed with his signature as well, so I know this letter is specific to me. :(

Gotta love rejection, because it makes you try harder! :cool:

[natejpg]

Better luck next time.

[L-1]

It also stated that I must wait (2) years before trying to apply again, so I guess I know that's how long the Chief wants to wait before seeing my mug back in his office again. It was signed with his signature as well, so I know this letter is specific to me. :(

That usually means the eligible list from the current test is projected to be good for two years and they won't be testing again until then.

How far did you get in the process?

[avalon42]

That usually means the eligible list from the current test is projected to be good for two years and they won't be testing again until then.

How far did you get in the process?

Written Test
Preliminary Background Review/Investigation (turn in PHS for review)
Oral Interview
Chiefs Interview

Made it to the last one before getting bombed out.

[L-1]

I see a couple of possibilities. First is that you didn't score high enough to be reachable on the list. If you have five vacancies, a Chief might interview the top 10 scoring candidates in anticipation of a few dropping out. Perhaps enough people with higher scores did not decline the position and there just weren't enough vacancies to get to you within the rules.

Another possibility is that you got hit with the "rule of three." In California, most agencies are allowed to pick anyone from the top three scoring candidates on the list when filling a given vacancy. If there are five vacancies, this means they can pick anyone from the top eight scores on the list. When the chief does his interviews, he usually decides who will be the best fit. It is entirely possible that within the rule of three, he preferred other candidates than yourself and went with them instead. This is by no means a rejection as evidenced by the fact that you did not get a DQ letter. It just means you did not get picked this time. Your name goes back on the eligible list and you must be considered for future vacancies for as long as the list is valid. However, from the tone of the letter (you may not apply again for two years). It sounds like they are not expecting any more vacancies for the life of the list.

[Don951]

Time to start applying for other departments.

[avalon42]

I got two other departments lined up, SDSO and SDCCPD. SDSO's background orientation is next week, as well as SDCCPD's written.

L-1, thank you for the insight on the process. I don't feel entirely bad; I know I was going against more qualified candidates (some already with their POST certificate).

BTW, I've lined myself up to attend Grossmont's 29th Modular Academy non-sponsored just to start myself on the path. I decided against a full basic academy because I need the income from my day job to support living expenses/bills.

[Stugotz]

Uhhgg I know the feeling as I've gotten 1 DQ and 2 non-select letters, all from LA City related police agencies, over the past 8 years. The experience made me a better applicant with my current processing department. That's the way you must look at it. Turn it around, use it as motivation for the other SD police agencies you're in the running for!!!

Don't quit!

[hankido2000]

I was also DQ by an agency late last year so I know the feeling. I'm just now applying to other agencies. Hang in there and don't give up. Best of luck!

[DagoStar]

It just wasn't meant to be if it didn't happen. Don't give up and keep tying. I would venture to say most of us in law enforcement had a few rejections under our belts before getting hired somewhere. Remember the process is highly competative and learn from the experience. Good luck!

[sparkydavid]

Ive been rejected by a few before I was given the final "your hired" handshake. Dont give up. I dont know about Grossmont academy but I attended Southwestern Basic Extended format academy way back and it was a way to have a full time job and attend full academy at the same time. I would check into that. However, if I had to do it again, I would have an agency hire me first and then get sponsored all the way through.

[avalon42]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. Which agencies are hiring Reserve Officers (and will sponsor them through a modular academy)?

I haven't seen any, but I've heard that starting out as a Reserve greatly increases your chance of being hired as a regular FT officer.

I need to keep the day job because they won't hire you if you don't stay on top of your bills either.

[Don951]

Are the hiring standards the same with reserve officers?

[L-1]

It may only be of limited help.

As discussed in other threads, you test scores and position on the list are usually determined by the number of correct answers you give to questions on the written and the oral. Having been a reserve may allow you to gain expertise and training that will allow you to give more correct answers and get a higher score.

However, when it comes to the rule of three, having been a good reserve may cause your chief to look more favorably upon you. But at the same time, if you are a reserve who has the reputation of being a knucklehead, it could just as easily cause your chief to exclude you.

[pulicords]

Are the hiring standards the same with reserve officers?

They should be but in practice that isn't always the case. Sometimes being a reserve can give you assistance in ways you don't initially expected. I started out as a reserve, during very competitive times to get hired full time (the mid-70's). Shortly after completing the reserve academy, I learned during a pre-employment physical that I had an asymptomatic back condition. After numerous DQd because of this, I lateral transferred to another agency as a reserve because:
1) My condition wasn't disqualifying for reserve or full time there.
2) They hired from their reserves almost exclusively to fill full time positions.
3) The Chief said the standards were the same for reserves as for regulars.

After working as a reserve for a couple of years and getting hired full time at a local college police department, I applied for a full time, lateral position with my (reserve) agency. I was rejected due to the physical issue, but appealed and won because I'd shown I could perform the duties of a full time officer, by doing them over a period of time as a reserve.

Being a reserve may be considered by some forum members as a gamble, but at least in my case it paid off.

[hbliam]

Reserve hiring standards are exactly the same at all the agencies I have knowledge of. I can hired full time because of my experiance as a Reserve. Also was hired as a lateral, and given a step increase from day 1 because of it.

[puzzledman]

I received a 'non-selected' letter in the mail two days ago. I am 38. In response to this letter, I called the number listed on my background packet (the long one) to get some insight. I wanted to know the difference between a DQ and non-select. I was told that a 'non-select' is of a "time heals it" nature; at least, that is what was told to me over the phone in my inquiry.

I ran through various things in my past and although I was not allowed to find out the details of why I was not selected, I was at least able to use the process of elimination for what it could be.

My 'non-select', I was told, was made upon inspection of my preliminary background packet. My low score on the written test was not factored in nor was my P.A.T. performance. In fact, since I had passed those two steps, and since I was in the 'background process' by virtue of my having passed the P.A.T., my non-select was a question of the background investigation. On my letter it says ...for the following reason: BACKGROUND INVESTIGATION.

The letter continues on to say that I can apply in one year from the letter, althought the lady on the phone said ".. one year from when you applied."

So, as I mentioned to her "it must of been this or must of been that', she informed me in each case why it could not be those things. I had suffered from a bad depression ten years ago, but I was informed that I was protected under the disabilities act. In other words, having been depressed at one time was not a factor. My test score was not the reason either. It turns out that nothing I thought it could be is the case and so now I am baffled. I have no idea why I was given a non-select. Even not being 'competative' she ruled out. I was left with the answer that it is a 'time-will-heal-it' matter and related to information put on my background packet.

My sister had been in serious trouble with the law through out her life. She used my address without permission. She had been in prison as embarrassing as that is. If you do a computer check on her her address, should show mine, because that is the one she put on her driver's license. I haven't talked to her in two years when I cut her off.

I don't have bad credit anymore--I just have no credit. My credit had been inactive for so long (past 7 years) that a most amzing thing happened. I didn't even think it was possible. The three credit unions Experian, Transunion and that other one "deleted" my account for lack of activity! This often happens to either two types of human being--the terrorist or the man who left the country for ten years. I am the third kind--one who pays cash for everything and learned to not borrow from the future.

Is it my nonexistant credit or my sister?

Whatever it is, my letter says it is a non-appealable matter. I had my car repossessed 9 years ago--which directly led to my refusal to borrow from the future, which in turn caused the credit bureaus to delete my account--which opened up when I financed a car in the early 90s.

It makes me mad that I cannot get an answer. What are factors that would result in a non-appeal matter but was not a DQ? I do not have a drug usage or DUI to wait out. For example, if I had used certain drugs i would have to wait three years and so would constitute a 'time-heals' issue. But, I had none of those things on my packet listed or in my history. Does time heal having no credit? Is that plausible?

I was fired once, but that was 7 1/2 years ago!

I was never called for an interview where they were supposed to discuss my qualifications.

They say when you get a DQ or a non-select you should be able to figure out what it probably was. But in my case I have no clue. None at all.

Any idea anyone?

[L-1]

I received a 'non-selected' letter in the mail two days ago.

I ran through various things in my past and although I was not allowed to find out the details of why I was not selected...

It makes me mad that I cannot get an answer.

Any idea anyone?

How hard do you want to find out?

In California you have the right to view most (but not all) of your background investigation package. However, the authority for doing so is complicated and based more on case law than a clear cut statute. Because much is open to interpretation, it may be necessary to go to court, have a judge review your file in camera (privately) and determine what may be released to you and what may not. The authority for this can be found in JOHNSON v. WINTER (1982) 127 CA3d 435 which is at http://online.ceb.com/CalCases/CA3/127CA3d435.htm

Opinions as to how this decision are to be applied may vary from agency to agency. As an example, the city of San Diego City Attorney's position on this may be found at http://docs.sandiego.gov/memooflaw/ML-86-74.pdf

Most agencies are not familiar with this area of law and may initially refuse your request. You will probably have to hire an attorney and have him make a formal request through the city or county attorney (depending on which agency you applied with) before you can get a copy of the report.

[Stugotz]

I received a 'non-selected' letter in the mail two days ago. I am 38. In response to this letter, I called the number listed on my background packet (the long one) to get some insight. I wanted to know the difference between a DQ and non-select. I was told that a 'non-select' is of a "time heals it" nature; at least, that is what was told to me over the phone in my inquiry.

Any idea anyone?

It's purely speculation but...

They could have non-selected after adding up these factors: termination, repossession, residing with a felon (via your sis' address), lack of credit (suggesting irresponsibility I suppose). The depression would probably have been a psych rather than BG issue...

It's hard to "let time heal" when you don't know what needs healing.

[DAL]

I would say that if you made it to the Chief's oral, you have a good chance getting hired elsewhere. College police departments are not necessarily looking for the same type of people as city police or sheriff's departments.

[avalon42]

When I made it to the Chief's Interview, even within that 5 minutes, it was clear the issues that he wanted me to work out:

1) Bad Credit Issue
2) Lack of Dedication/Direction in a Law Enforcement Career (I guess when he was comparing me to that other candidate with 5 years LE experience AND a POST Basic certificate)
3) My little incident in 2005 (judgment issue)
4) My fiesta in 2004 (maturity issue)

Even while I worked for the department for 4 months, he felt that I had not really proven myself ready to make the transition. What also stung me was when I left the department to take a full-time position with an old employer (purely because I was not allowed to work full-time while in school-CSU policy and the student loans/bills were piling so high). My dept felt I was "running away" from my problems, when in fact, I was confronting them head-on.

Fast forward two months later: my SDSO BI was not so concerned about #4, but he said that why my life shows no stability (I moved around a lot, went to a lot of different colleges before getting my Associates). #1 & #3 are the real obstacles with SDSO.

So, this is why I am putting myself through an academy (even if it is a Modular format). I am giving up my weeknights and weekends to transition into LE.

puzzledman, there could be a variety of reasons for their decision to non-select. Try removing the ones you can (like my bad debt), or demonstrating more positive self-initiative (like going through an academy) to outweigh whatever might weigh you down in the process. I wish you the best because I know how frustrating this can be. After 3 years, being told I still have to wait is almost maddening.

[417Lt]

For puzzledman:
I'll admit this is shooting from the hip but you asked for opinions:
Too much drama.
You have an explanation for everything but that's just it- there's too much that needs explaining. Good candidates for LE conduct their lives in a way that usually doesn't get as complicated as yours seems to be.
Sorry but you asked for opinions.

[pulicords]

+1 with 417Lt's comments and I'd add this: When asked about these issues, keep your responses short and to the point (ie: "My sister is a low life, she's used my address without my permission and I haven't spoken with her for two years.") The less "extenuating" details provided, the less it looks like one's making excuses. (There isn't much here that needs excusing.)

Second Point: There's a big difference between being DQ'd and being "non-selected." Usually, agencies have more applicants (who meet the basic qualifications) than they have positions available. When there are three people who've passed the testing process, but only one opening, there will be two disappointed applicants. The manager of the organization has every right to try and find the best among those potential hires. Do what you can to raise your position among the "others" to a higher level! It may mean attending the academy as "pre-service", it may mean returning to college and taking classes more associated with LE, it may mean entering a reserve program or trying for a civilian position within the department you're interested in to get known and "get your foot in the door."

Above all else, don't quit! If the job means that much to you, show it by giving even more effort than you have in the past.

[puzzledman]

Sounds like good advice. I need to reduce the drama and increase the reason why they should pick "me" as opposed to the next guy. I will be transferring to a university in the near future and will probably give it a shot again in a few years. I do not think turning around applying at another department is going to make invisible those things I disclose even if in brief sentences. I probably need to push back the shenanigans and push in more favorable stuff. I think 417Lt is right...too much drama.

~unpuzzledman