Question

[The Cynic]

Okay, first of all I want to say I SUPPORT THE OWNERSHIP OF GUNS. I AM NOT FOR GUN CONTROL. I have to say that because too often when I ask this question to my cop friends they assume I'm for gun control and start flaming. Okay here is the question:

Republicans, conservatives, whatever take a very literal interpretation of the 2nd amendment and most will argue that it means the goverment can't ban any guns, period!!! But these same people bastardize the 1st amendment and want to restrict free speech and such with censorship. A literal interpration of the 1st amendment would indicate that there can be no censorship. Look at any censorship campaign and its the right wing fighting for it and the left wing standing up for free speech rights (most of the time). To me its just hypocritical. Why accept one so literally and not the other?

Could it be because people tend to interpret the constitution as they see fit so that it agrees with their ideals and ignore the parts they don't like.

Once again, in case you didn't get my point I am NOT for gun control so don't flame me. Plus I'm sure there are equal hypocrisies by the left wing but those are other issues so no need to bring those up.

[Tprspouse]

I hate guns, but let me give my .02 here...

I am all for being able to have guns in one's home. It's not the gun that kills people, it's the person behind the gun. I am so sick and tired of people saying that "You have a gun AND children in the same house?" It's like they just can't comprehend it. We just don't leave our gun laying around. It's locked up and the safety is on. This is all a given though, and it's common sense. What really irritates me is that some parents out there completely rely on a lock and a safety to save their child's life. What happend to EDUCATION about guns and what PEOPLE are capable of doing WITH them if they are careless or don't know enough about a gun to be using one?

Parents don't want to take the time to teach their children. This is just the beginning. I could go on and on...sex, drugs, etc. Why must society always have to have someone else or someTHING keep their children from harm? What happens when my child goes over a friends house and there is access to a gun? I would HOPE that my child has learned what I had taught about touching guns and that they would KNOW not to handle it. You can't trust other people and the way that they choose to live their lives. Instill everything you hold sacred into your child and hopefull they will take it with them everywhere they go.

This is where there should be a test to be a parent! At least as a law enforcement family (and I am sure this goes for all other LE families) we would most definitely take the time to educate our children about guns. They are not bad. It's people who make them "poison". Someone mentions a gun and it's *ooooooooh*.

Gun control? I think that an honest, law abiding citizen should not be put through heck to buy a gun. I think that if you have been convicted of a crime involving a gun in the past, then you should not be allowed to purchase one until you are cleared. I have no sympathy for criminals.

Keeping guns out of children's hands in gang related cases? They are going to get the guns, no matter what. There will always be a black market, unfortunately. Gang issues are tough. I really don't know that much about them.

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~Lisa
"If they put my brain inside a bird, it would fly backwards."--Archie Bunker (My hero)

[G30man]

Cynic,
Were we seperated at birth? http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif I have posed the same question for years. We accept censorship in tv, print media, etc, but have a hissy fit when the same concept is applied to gun control.
If the mentality of pro-gun advocates is applied to the first, then hardcore pornography would be on during prime time tv hours since there would be no censorship and it sure would be a ratings grabber. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif
If we apply the censorship mentality used on the first amendment to the second amendment, then we get the current gun laws and future gun laws that are proposed.
An interesting question as to why one amendment is so literally viewed and not the other.

BTW, I am a pro-gun guy, so please don't hurt me... http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif Oh, and I don't want porn in prime time and I don't want us common folk to have bombs and other hi-tech weapons. I'm so confused.

Mikey

[Niteshift]

I'm about as pro-gun as you get (just look at the big NRA sticker on the back of my ticket book), but even I can see that certain guns should not be available.

Here's my question to you: What guns do you think should not be available?

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[Tprspouse]

Any gun that would only be used by a law enforcement agency or the military in an emergency situation.

There is absolutely no need for a Mr. Doe to be walking down the street with a machine gun in his hands.

I realize that death and destruction can be caused with any gun, don't get me wrong.

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~Lisa
"If they put my brain inside a bird, it would fly backwards."--Archie Bunker (My hero)

[Sparky]

Don't assume that everyone interprets the Constitution in their own way. We have other sources of information that tellus what the founding fathers were thinking at the time they wrote the 2nd. Alexander Hamilton, Ben Frankiln, Etc. Etc, et al were very educated and prolific writers.

A good atrating point is The Federalist Papers. Very good stuff and I think the literature of the period was also beautifully written.

Although there are reps and dems that tend to put their own twist on things, I happen to believe that reps (and other conservatives as well as libertarians) tend to interpret the Constitution more in the way that it was written and in the historical context it was written. Many of our legislators are jurists in their own right and are very educated on the Constitution and our governement's history. I feel that we pay them a disservice by assuming that they are merely reading it in their own way. They may have very good reasons on which to base their opinion, but they would be rather lengthy and not lend themselves to a 3 second sound bite.

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-Sparky
Fiat justina.

[THE BRONZE]

There is absolutely no need for a Mr. Doe to be walking down the street with a machine gun in his hands.
I will assume you are referring to fully automatic weapons as well as actual machine guns. The restrictions on a person legally owning a fully automatic weapon are very stringent. They have been for a very long time. I only know two who have taken the necessary steps. One is a licensed collector, who is also a police officer. The other is a patent holder. The second told me he keeps his weapon broken down, with part of it in a safety-deposit box. The people who meet the requirements are very unlikely to become involved in crime. Maybe somebody out there can provide the percentage of legally owned automatic weapons end up being used in the commission of any crime. I bet it will be less than one-sixteenth of one percent.

You have stumbled into the typical argument of what kinds of weapons to ban. I do not care if a weapon has the

[Niteshift]

Wasn't it 1936 or 38 when machine gun ownership was severely restricted?

So, since those guns aren't a factor, which guns "need" banned?

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[G30man]

My no-no list is for items like explosives, anti-tank weapons, anti-aircraft weapons, grenades, nuclear explosives... the big stuff. While I pesonally have no use for fully-automatic weapons, I have no problem with any of us citizens owning them.

Just imagine if some guy goes to kill his ex-wife and used a backpack nuke to make sure he gets the job done right. http://www.officer.com/ubb/frown.gif I for one am glad we can't get stuff like that.

Jovially,
Mikey

[KenM]

G30, I can go to the feed store or my local Wal-Mart and buy everything I need to blow up just about anything for less than $100. Are we going to get to the point where we control household cleaners, fertilizers and other chemicals?

That said, I agree that weapons of mass destruction should be controlled. We have to ensure the safety of the public.

The prohibition of automatic weapons puzzles me too. I can own an M1 carbine, an AR15 or an AK47 but they can't have certain features. Yet I can purchase and possess the auto sears, bayonets or flash hiders for these weapons and I would be within the law. Does that make sense?

[G30man]

KenM,
Agreed, I too have a home cookbook on explosives, so it may be useless to prohibit people from having them. (Sighs) Where does a good idea, limiting some weapons, become a ridicilous one. I don't know either.
The assault rifle stuff is just for the purpose of banning them, no other reason. I have an SLR95 which is a Bulgarian made AK. It came with a thumbhole stock and no flash suppressor or bayonet lugs, so it is was legal to import. It is just as lethal as any pre-ban AK, so the laws were useless.
I will stop rambling and go visit my guns, they miss me when I am away too long. http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Best wishes,
Mikey


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You say cross-dresser like it's a bad thing.

[Sparky]

and what about those nasty steak knives with a wooden handle??

Everyone knows that it is almost impossible to lift a latent from wood!!

This feature should be regulated as it is used by criminals to avoid identification.

The only people that should have knives are a few specially trained and licensed personnel that can work in buther shops and can pre-cut all of our meat for us.

And what about cars??? You are supposed to have a license to drive, but a criminal can just go and buy a car with cash only!!! They don't have to prove that they know how to drive at all!! Unlicensed drivers kill thousands of people EACH YEAR!!



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-Sparky
Fiat justina.

[Niteshift]

I'm still waiting to hear which guns should be banned? I've heard about home-made bombs and weapons that are already severely restricted, but nothing about anything that is commonly available.



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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[Sparky]

How about banning all guns with the deadly combination of being in working order and being owned by an irresponsible idiot. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif

Now THAT is a deadly combination!!!!




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-Sparky
Fiat justina.

[The Cynic]

Sparky, the problem with that idea is that there are a lot of cops who would be out jobs. http://www.officer.com/ubb/wink.gif

[G30man]

Niteshift,
No guns should be banned. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif

Preserve your right to arm bears. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif

Mikey

[Niteshift]

I'll go with sparky on that one. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif

Cynic, funny you should say that. I was just telling my chief this morning that if I had my way, the closest two of my guys would get to a gun was a red gun.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna

[G30man]

Rofl.... I just saw some recruits that fit the red gun standard. http://www.officer.com/ubb/smile.gif Yes, there are already some red gunners that I work with too. You guys crack me up. http://www.officer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Mikey

[The Cynic]

Niteshift,

Funny you should say that because when I wrote that I was thinking back to an incident at my department about six years ago. Wonder cop liked to look in the mirror at the department and watch himself do his quick draw. As he was doing it he squeezed off a round on accident. The round went through two walls and hit another cop in the neck while he was at his computer. Luckily it was just flesh wound. He's the only cop on my department who has been shot in the last 18 years.
The real kicker is that wonder cop discipline consisted of losing one day's paid vacation.

[Sparky]

Sure, it's all fun and games until someone gets shot in the neck!!

Did the guy get a purple heart or what???

I guess desk duty CAN be dangerous!!

And you thought the papercut hurt!!

Did he think the mirror was going to shoot back??

......I could go on and on with this one....it's just too easy.

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-Sparky
Fiat justina.

[Niteshift]

One whole day for shooting a guy in the neck???? Damnit man.... did he appeal the punishment?

The sad part is that I read this story to another officer in my dept. and the first name to come up was the guy I was thinking of when I made the red gun comment.

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Niteshift-
Perseverate In Pugna