Cages (partitions) in patrol cars?

[chiefcop]

I am seeking input from officers out there on this topic.

Patritions, cages, in patrol vehicles.

Do you feel they are needed? Why? Why not?

If getting a new patrol vehicle ,SUV, and you found out you were not getting a cage, what would you do? Would you ask for one.......What if your administrator (chief)(small town 8 cops total) said that cages were not needed in the city as the jail was in town and you did not have far to drive to jail?


Your thoughts

[Vtfuzz]

That's a really stupid reason for not wanting cages in cars. The cage is to protect both the officer and the offender. I can understand the cost bit in a small department, but at least implement them one vehicle at a time, one a year.

[KAA951]

How about the choice- not every patrol car needs one but you should have access to a cage car if you feel it is warranted by the situation / arrestee.

My agency has no cage cars (500+ cars on the road) and never has. However, if we have a situation where a cage is needed we can call on other agencies to assist. In 15 years I have only needed to call for a cage 2 or 3 times but I would like to see our agency go to giving officers the choice of whether they want one or not.

[DAL]

You can have someone else transport.

Cages can restrict leg room for tall officers excessively.
Some officers do not want them for that reason. Others don't want cages because they restrict rear vision or prevent officers from reaching items stowed in the rear.

Most state highway patrol agencies do not use them.

[HYPER1]

If your Dept. can not afford a cage, you might be able to ask some of the Depts around you for a used one. Most new police vehicle are being purchased with the Equipment installed. I know we have 3 or 4 cages sitting in storage from cars we've stripped out and got rid of.

[LA DEP]

Its Department policy to only transport suspects in cars with cages....I wish we had the solid partitions, so they cant spit/bleed on you......

Not that the policy doesnt get violated at times......but you will be in the grease of something goes sideways....

[LE2BE]

Seems like a dept without cages does not really care about its Officers. You can't predict when a nut job is going to attack an Officer and you never really know if one has a disease like HIV/ AIDS. You don't know how many times our suspects start banging their heads against the glass (plexi) as we transport to the station.

Our dept has full partitioned cages with glass shields for all our patrol units, minus Sgt shops, or other specialized units like gangs... ect. We also have the option of using cageless cars if available, but at 5'-11", I do not need one. For me its for both our safety and the safety of the suspect.... because If I got spat on while transporting I would probably pull over the shop to make an attitude adjustment.

[luckydog]

i have never had a cage/partition restrict my leg room, but i drive an expedition. it definitely restricts the prisoner's though. what are you supposed to do with a combative prisoner, or a spiter, or somebody who wants to yank down their pants and try to urinate on you? yes that is why there are tasers, rip hobbles, and spit masks but what are you going to do when they start acting up while you are going 60 mph in traffic? i cant tell you how many times somebody has gone nuts back there about half way to the jail. that is why we have bars on the side windows too.

[DAL]

Some urban police departments also have prisoner vans that are called to transport.

Also, there are almost always two units when an arrest is made. You only need one with a cage. Gang units get by just fine without a cage, and they make plenty of arrests.

[rangesgt]

All of our cars have cages. Just got the full plexiglass uppers, too, for that spitting issue.

[NBW791]

I agree with KAA...I don't have one. I used to have one at my old agency. I preferred the half cages because I could still get to my gear in the backseat without getting out (especially important in the rain) if I had a partner or somebody riding with me, and more importantly, it gave me more leg room. I like being able to reach everything in my backseat now from inside the car. I would be against a full cage, but a half cage I could deal with.

[LA DEP]

I agree with KAA...I don't have one. I used to have one at my old agency. I preferred the half cages because I could still get to my gear in the backseat without getting out (especially important in the rain) if I had a partner or somebody riding with me, and more importantly, it gave me more leg room. I like being able to reach everything in my backseat now from inside the car. I would be against a full cage, but a half cage I could deal with.

Guess you have never had someone go apesh*t in your back seat yet?

[Narco]

i would not trasport a prisoner w/o a cage...period. it's a danger and a liability to not provide them to your officers. i was amazed to see that either dallas or houston pd doesnt have them in their cars. hell, if atlanta pd can afford to put cages in their cars AND run a wagon then everyone should have them.

[Freddie]

In your situation, I would say that it's pointless for a city PD to dish out extra money to buy an expedition if you're going to cheap out on equiping it.

[511R]

Wow. :eek:
I guess it depends where you work. I can't imagine going 10-8 in a car with no cage. We arrest/transport some real animals. To the guys who don't think cages are necessary, where the heck do you work?

When I first came on, we had some cars w/o cages. If a prisoner needed to be transported, we'd put an officer in the back seat with him/her/it. The officer sat directly behind the driver officer, and was supposed to control the prisoner. This was not always possible however, as some of these people are f***ing maniacs.

Our cars now have molded, hard plastic back seats, and cages with plexiglass to prevent spitting. Absolutely necessary where I work. (Are all the nut cases concentrated in SoCal?? :confused:

[suprtrpr]

we, being a state agency, do not have cages. our prisoners ride in the passenger seat so we can get our hands on them if they start squirming. with them handcuffed (properly behind the back) and seatbelted in, there isnt much room for them to move around. there is the occasion that they unbuckle the seatbelt. when they do i stop as fast as i can so they can be properly secured once again:) but yes i do have ones that fight and spit and everything else and its not that big of a deal. they cant fight no more once there seatbelted and cuffed. if they start spitting (which is a felony here to spit on a police officer) i pull their shirt over their head. they start kicking, then they get a hobble strap. it is all about what you are used to. they only downside that i have is no lockout on the door locks like they have in the backseat.

[LA DEP]

we, being a state agency, do not have cages. our prisoners ride in the passenger seat so we can get our hands on them if they start squirming. with them handcuffed (properly behind the back) and seatbelted in, there isnt much room for them to move around. there is the occasion that they unbuckle the seatbelt. when they do i stop as fast as i can so they can be properly secured once again:) but yes i do have ones that fight and spit and everything else and its not that big of a deal. they cant fight no more once there seatbelted and cuffed. if they start spitting (which is a felony here to spit on a police officer) i pull their shirt over their head. they start kicking, then they get a hobble strap. it is all about what you are used to. they only downside that i have is no lockout on the door locks like they have in the backseat.

Spitting/Bleeding isnt serious, until you get diagnosed with Hep A, B, or C.......Hep C is an automatic death sentence.....and EASILY transmitted through bodily fluids......

I am glad to see that your state takes spitting seriously though.....its (barely) a misdemeanor here.....and that is assuming that the DA will even file it in the first place......

[LE2BE]

(Are all the nut cases concentrated in SoCal?? :confused:

Yup... seems like it. I know I get my fair share here in South Central.:cool:

[L223]

My old car had no cage in it my current one does. I thought I would hate it but I like having my area up front that is untouched by dirty crack heads. It is also nice in the summer because when you close the partition it gets down right cold up front. The only down side is that I end up transporting nearly every one we lock up. "Hey, grab this guy, you got a cage".

[miltownsrt6]

Its Department policy to only transport suspects in cars with cages....I wish we had the solid partitions, so they cant spit/bleed on you......



Ditto!

[GC Tiger]

Alll of our patrol cars and patrol sergeants have cages. Even most of our SRO's have them. I would not ask my guys to transport without the use of a cage. We have glass partitions and most of the cars have bars on the side windows.

[kannahspapa]

Swear by them, wouldn't want a car without a partition/cage. My full-time ride has one, when I took a pt job the car was without one. So I put one in ASAP,
transports are 25 miles to the CJ. When we bought a 2nd car it came equipped with one.

[kcpd2528]

No cages. If some one's nasty or being naughty, we call a wagon.

[MDK9]

Cant imagine not having a cage...wouldnt transport without one.

[ArkansasFan24]

We're forbidden from having them.

[LA DEP]

We're forbidden from having them.

WHAT?

Here is a remedy for that.....the next time an officer gets injured by a suspect that was able to reach them because of the lack of a cage.....get a lawyer, and show them the 'no cage' policy........

After the agency loses the lawsuit, for 'failure to property train and/or equip' you will have your cages.....

[MPDCjock]

I prefer transport cars. If I'm lucky enough to get a take home car I will request a transport.

For me, it's a question of safety. If I'm off duty and have to take police action I need to have the means to secure the prisoner(off-street if necessary) until additional units arrive or transport them to a district for processing.

[Bushranger]

We're forbidden from having them.

If that's the case, are your grubs transported in a paddy wagon when they're arrested or do you work two-up and your partner sits in the back with the cuffed(?) grub?

I am amazed that your employer doesn't give a rats' arse about Officer Safety and that they would rather risk your health and well being than fork out for a few dollars to have cages/ barriers installed in your patrol cars!

Note to moderator: "Rats' arse" is Aussie slang for not giving a damn.

[ArkansasFan24]

If that's the case, are your grubs transported in a paddy wagon when they're arrested or do you work two-up and your partner sits in the back with the cuffed(?) grub?

I am amazed that your employer doesn't give a rats' arse about Officer Safety and that they would rather risk your health and well being than fork out for a few dollars to have cages/ barriers installed in your patrol cars!

Note to moderator: "Rats' arse" is Aussie slang for not giving a damn.

No, we don't have paddy wagons, and yes you're right about the safety issue. I could send more in PMs, lol.

[goodfella]

There is no way I would ever transport anybody without a cage.

We also have the side cages to protect suspects from kicking out the side windows which have helped since I've been here.

[blackdog797]

deleted profile

[jchughes05]

My patrol Impala does not have a cage in it. It was the old School Resource car, so a cage was never installed. It's one of the few left in the fleet that do not. My next car, a Vic, will have one.

[Monkeybomb]

Cages are the only way to go. Even with a paddy wagon. nice to have one to keep prisoners in until the wagon gets there. Of course we don't have paddy wagons here. To much area to cover.

[Red Swan]

Hell I have gotten a window pushed out by a guys head smashing against it, can't imagine not having a cage for some of the drunk lunatics i have to take to jail

[NORCOCOP]

I somehow missed the boat on this one, but I'll bite anyway. I guess it is like anything else, what you are used to seems normal. I know older guys who never wear a vest. I have never been with out one, and when I forgot it in my first year I called my wife to bring it and put it on asap. I got really uncomfortable taking shots fired calls half the afternoon feeling nekid.

I can not imagine not having a cage car when I just had to roll around with someone to get them into cuffs, they were kicking all of the way to the car and I had to shove them in. I guess they are magically supposed to calm down and accept defeat when they realize there is no cage. I have lost 3 or more windows, somtimes more that one to a sitting, even with cuffs on in the rear and buckled in, even one rear window (don't ask). I know we don't have a special breed of crack heads, prostitutes, and drunks here so I feel for the guys with out cages. Then again I can fight them into cuffs, so I guess I would just be writing more use of force reports, and that would probably not sit too well with the brass:)

[jchughes05]

My new Crown Vic that I just got issued on the 22nd has a Setina partition (the top half folds up and down) in it.

[Kieth M.]

Before I left California, the PD in the town I lived in had just installed divided partitions. Not only were the turds kept apart from the officers up front, but they were now kept apart from each other.

IMO not all PD cars should be partitioned, however. There are times when transporting a third officer, a crime victim, or worse a new police widow and I'll be damned if I'll allow any one of them to sit behind a plastic window on a hard plastic seat with essence of lowlife all over it.

[Omega17632]

Full cage with plexiglass upper, and hard plastic seats!

Half cages were just taken away from our fleet because of the danger of them. One officer was rear ended at 65+mph and the plexiglass split in half an almost severed his arm completely off. So knee jerk reaction was to have them all replace with full cages.

Some of our unmarked cars do not have cages, but those are rare.

You shouldn't be storing anything in the backseat anyways. They just become weapons of opportunity for the *******s to use against us, and potential projectiles in a collision!

[jchughes05]

We have the vinyl seats that you can lift out

[WKT]

A few years ago there was talk of not putting cages in the new cars. My first inclination was that I would check with the local PD's and sheriff's office and see if I could get one. If that didn't work out, I'd go buy my own and put it in.

If a department wouldn't let me have a cage in the car, I would stand on the side of the road with my prisoner until someone else came and got him. No way I'd put a prisoner in the car with me and no cage of any sort. The reasons are obvious enough that I don't have to point them out to other officers.

[bamacop]

If cost or officer comfort is a problem go with the half cages. All of our new cars have them. Of course it is a bit difficult to stuff a large guy in one. When I first started on the job 18 years ago our cars did not have cages, and I can think of a few times right off the top of the head where I was kicked by my prisoner in the back of the head.
For those of you who have cages and now plexiglass divider, do what I did. I went down to Lowes and bought a piece of plexiglass and hooked it up to the cage.

[gomets11]

i would not trasport a prisoner w/o a cage...period. it's a danger and a liability to not provide them to your officers. i was amazed to see that either dallas or houston pd doesnt have them in their cars. hell, if atlanta pd can afford to put cages in their cars AND run a wagon then everyone should have them.

no doubt...

Here in Tampa we had two detectives transporting a suspect without a cage...

Long story short, he was able to get out of his cuffs, attack and kill both Detectives then fled...Then was stopped by FHP & killed a Trooper ...Fled again and held a gas station hostage until he eventually died...

Never transport without a cage.

[Pete12]

no doubt...

Here in Tampa we had two detectives transporting a suspect without a cage...

Long story short, he was able to get out of his cuffs, attack and kill both Detectives then fled...Then was stopped by FHP & killed a Trooper ...Fled again and held a gas station hostage until he eventually died...

Never transport without a cage.

I was just thinking about that incident... All of our marked units(good size dept) with the exception of marine unit and traffic homicide have full cages. I'm 6-04 and I can deal with the legroom issue(my charger has a lot more room than my old vic). The cages also provide a little extra protection in crashes with the steel bar that goes around it acting as a roll bar, and side protection.

[ruraldeputy17]

Hello folks. New to the forum and wanted to say hello... My last employer we had cages. Worked out great. At my current employer we do not have cages.I was looking around in our storage and found an old style (squared rubbered coated wire) and hopefully will get it installed shortly. For now I transport the BG in the front seat passenger seat. Don't want them to slip their handcuffs from behind thier back and be able to strangle me. Actually happended to an officer I know. This way I can tell if they start to get stupid. Our average transport distance is about 20 miles or more just to get to our jail. So, as soon as I get my different unit I will have the cage installed. Also I'm 6ft 3 in. and cages don't affect my comfort, but being strangled, spit upon or assaulted would affect my comfort (and theirs). Anyway you go be prepared for them to be able to defeat anything.

[MikeD4824]

My department started putting cages in cars a few years ago. Officers started complaining about not having enough room. They would get doctors to fill out notes to get them removed. Officer safety was expressed over and over but they wouldn't listen. After a couple years they stopped putting cages in and took a lot out. So, when I got my new cruiser it did not have a cage. I miss my cage car. I think it was the biggest step backwards in officer safety. Sometimes, we are our own worst enemy.

[DAL]

My department started putting cages in cars a few years ago. Officers started complaining about not having enough room. They would get doctors to fill out notes to get them removed. Officer safety was expressed over and over but they wouldn't listen. After a couple years they stopped putting cages in and took a lot out. So, when I got my new cruiser it did not have a cage. I miss my cage car. I think it was the biggest step backwards in officer safety. Sometimes, we are our own worst enemy.

Some of our cars have half cages -- there is a cage that encloses the rear passenger side only. That allows moving the driver's seat further back. Also, the molded fiberglas seats create more room in back, allowing the front seat to be moved further back.

[LEO_07]

Yes cages are very important, would never transport without one .

Prime example

Three dead police officers at the hands of one animal because they transported without a cage.

http://www.odmp.org/officer/15088-detective-ricky-joe-childers

http://www.odmp.org/officer/15087-trooper-james-bradford-jean-crooks

http://www.odmp.org/officer/15089-detective-randy-scott-bell

[copper21911]

I've done it both ways. First without a cage by myself I have to spend some of my limitted attention on the guy next to me making sure he doesn't kick my knee out or whatever. I've ridden in the back seat trying to control a oxygen thief. Let me say that is just setting up an officer for failure because it puts him in a position where they almost have to use constant physical force to control the situation. A cage is a blessing. If your department doesn't have money to deploy 24 hour service transport vans then a cage in every car is the way to go. I love tranport vans though. It's a nice change of pace when you get assigned to one and it's great to just hand the transport officer the guy and a booking sheet and you don't have to deal with him anymore.

[thatboatguy]

Its a tight Fit... even in my impala.... but I dont know what i could do with out a cage

[BPD_126]

We have full partitioned w/ plexy glass and a window you can slide back and forth to hear them if you need to. I really wish we'd get a couple cars w/ half cages because being 6'8", I have to fold and unfold out of the cars. They are very convenient though and make you feel safer than transporting someone in the front seat. Larger agencies such as KCPD do not have cages and have to call for wagon every time they transport. Take that back, don't have to, but that's the safest way for them to transport. To your chief, "Psychologists have concluded that human behavior is predictable only 7% of the time." This is why we cuff all people and take the precautions we do. And that's 7% predictable by a psychologist.....not we peon cops......

[jswwjw]

We have them but I know of someone who does not. He bolted (using the front passenger seat bolts) a piece of metal with a ring in the middle. He takes leg irons, runs them through the metal ring and then attaches them to the suspects legs. Although not the most safe method (as a cage is safer) he made good use of what he had to secure his prisoner from kicking or escaping.

Just a thought.

[ForegoneReality]

No Cages for us, I'm afraid.

It's all about human rights, people. :rolleyes:

[MrP46]

I have had a patrol car with a cage and currently have one without a cage. I prefer not to have one.