H R 218

[CERT 44]

Is anyone familiar with the relatively new law H R 218??? It's a law that allows all law enforcement officers to carry a concealed weapon anywhere in the country. I'm assuming this does not pertain to correctional officers. Does anyone know for sure? I've heard a lot of conflicting information.

[robeans]

Is anyone familiar with the relatively new law H R 218??? It's a law that allows all law enforcement officers to carry a concealed weapon anywhere in the country. I'm assuming this does not pertain to correctional officers. Does anyone know for sure? I've heard a lot of conflicting information.

Without coming across like a dick, even though it's late as hell, a few things come to mind.

A. This is not a new law, it was signed 4 years ago.
B. Google answers all.
C. If you search this site you'll find hundreds of pages of discussion
4. It all boils down to your state/local administrators interpretation of the law, many CO's across the county are covered under HR 218 or it's correct name which is LEOSA, or the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act of 2004.

[BigHouseGreen]

In California correctional officers are covered under this bill. One of my buddies took a trip to hawaii and was happier than hell that he could carry his weapon with him. I would say look at your state laws and see if correctional officers in your state are covered under this law.

[KenW.]

I'm not going to look it right now. I do recall a statement about "supervising detention" that makes it cover corrections guys, because in many areas COs are not "Law Enforcement" per se, and don't have powers of arrest.

[2971511]

It basically depends upon whether of not your state recognizes a C.O. as a person authorized to make arrests and enforce the law, i think if they have Peace Officer status, they may be covered. check the law and ask the state attorney general for clarification

[fedguy889]

I'm not going to look it right now. I do recall a statement about "supervising detention" that makes it cover corrections guys, because in many areas COs are not "Law Enforcement" per se, and don't have powers of arrest.

Pretty sure the main requirement is having "Statutory Arrest Authority". If you don't have that, you are not covered.

[Bowles]

Pretty sure the main requirement is having "Statutory Arrest Authority". If you don't have that, you are not covered.

Ditto, this is a Federal Law if you meet all the requriments laid out you are covered.

[DCPSDcop]

no power of arrest = no coverage under HR218

[NJPrisonCop]

Yeah you need to have arrest powers to be covered. PA is not covered.... NJ is. And I carry mine all the time no matter where I go.

[hankrearden2000]

Here is what it says. If you meet the conditions, you are covered. If not, you aren't.

H.R.218: The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004

(Enrolled as Agreed to or Passed by Both House and Senate)

One Hundred Eighth Congress of the United States of America

AT THE SECOND SESSION

Begun and held at the City of Washington on Tuesday, the twentieth day of January, two thousand and four

An Act

To amend title 18, United States Code, to exempt qualified current and former law enforcement officers from State laws prohibiting the carrying of concealed handguns.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004'.



SEC. 2. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926A the following:

`Sec. 926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers

`(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

`(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

`(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

`(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified law enforcement officer' means an employee of a governmental agency who--

`(1) is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and has statutory powers of arrest;

`(2) is authorized by the agency to carry a firearm;

`(3) is not the subject of any disciplinary action by the agency;

`(4) meets standards, if any, established by the agency which require the employee to regularly qualify in the use of a firearm;

`(5) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(6) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

`(d) The identification required by this subsection is the photographic identification issued by the governmental agency for which the individual is employed as a law enforcement officer.

`(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

`(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

`(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

`(3) any destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).'.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926A the following:

`926B. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers.'.



SEC. 3. EXEMPTION OF QUALIFIED RETIRED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS FROM STATE LAWS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is further amended by inserting after section 926B the following:

`Sec. 926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers

`(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of the law of any State or any political subdivision thereof, an individual who is a qualified retired law enforcement officer and who is carrying the identification required by subsection (d) may carry a concealed firearm that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, subject to subsection (b).

`(b) This section shall not be construed to supersede or limit the laws of any State that--

`(1) permit private persons or entities to prohibit or restrict the possession of concealed firearms on their property; or

`(2) prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms on any State or local government property, installation, building, base, or park.

`(c) As used in this section, the term `qualified retired law enforcement officer' means an individual who--

`(1) retired in good standing from service with a public agency as a law enforcement officer, other than for reasons of mental instability;

`(2) before such retirement, was authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of, or the incarceration of any person for, any violation of law, and had statutory powers of arrest;

`(3)(A) before such retirement, was regularly employed as a law enforcement officer for an aggregate of 15 years or more; or

`(B) retired from service with such agency, after completing any applicable probationary period of such service, due to a service-connected disability, as determined by such agency;

`(4) has a nonforfeitable right to benefits under the retirement plan of the agency;

`(5) during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms;

`(6) is not under the influence of alcohol or another intoxicating or hallucinatory drug or substance; and

`(7) is not prohibited by Federal law from receiving a firearm.

`(d) The identification required by this subsection is--

`(1) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the agency to meet the standards established by the agency for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm; or

`(2)(A) a photographic identification issued by the agency from which the individual retired from service as a law enforcement officer; and

`(B) a certification issued by the State in which the individual resides that indicates that the individual has, not less recently than one year before the date the individual is carrying the concealed firearm, been tested or otherwise found by the State to meet the standards established by the State for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry a firearm of the same type as the concealed firearm.

`(e) As used in this section, the term `firearm' does not include--

`(1) any machinegun (as defined in section 5845 of the National Firearms Act);

`(2) any firearm silencer (as defined in section 921 of this title); and

`(3) a destructive device (as defined in section 921 of this title).'.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is further amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926B the following:

`926C. Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified retired law enforcement officers.'.



Speaker of the House of Representatives.

Vice President of the United States and President of the Senate.

[CERT 44]

I'm from PA so i'm not covered, damn commonwealth. Thank you guys for the info.

[NJPrisonCop]

PA needs to catch up. They let civilians carry concealed so easily, but not CO's. I know you have no arrest powers, but they should give them to you. It just makes sense. If you do anything on the street, you are joe citizen. If you had powers, you are a legit LEO.

[CERT 44]

Yeah that really aggravates me. Nothing against you but that angers me that you can come into PA carrying your firearm and be covered under the law, however I work the same job as you but I am not covered, not even in my own state. Of course I have a license to conceal but it would be nice to be able to carry when crossing state lines.

[NYSJAILER2008]

Yeah that really aggravates me. Nothing against you but that angers me that you can come into PA carrying your firearm and be covered under the law, however I work the same job as you but I am not covered, not even in my own state. Of course I have a license to conceal but it would be nice to be able to carry when crossing state lines.
Move to NY or NJ and have a career as a LEO Correction Officer

[wokeupscreamin]

wow... I've lived in 5 different states, traveled up both coast lines, drove from WA to PA and not once did i find myself wishing I was able to carry a concealed weapon from state to state. is it really that big of deal to some people? I dont even own a gun.

[Boss Rob Canada]

I have been following this discussion with great interest. I find it strange that some jurisdictions dont extend peace officer status to CO's. In Canada we have one set of Criminal Law for the entire country (The Criminal Code of Canada).

"peace officer" includes

(a) a mayor, warden, reeve, sheriff, deputy sheriff, sheriff’s officer and justice of the peace,

(b) a member of the Correctional Service of Canada who is designated as a peace officer pursuant to Part I of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, and a warden, deputy warden, instructor, keeper, jailer, guard and any other officer or permanent employee of a prison other than a penitentiary as defined in Part I of the Corrections and Conditional Release Act,[/I](c) a police officer, police constable, bailiff, constable, or other person employed for the preservation and maintenance of the public peace or for the service or execution of civil process,

(d) an officer within the meaning of the Customs Act, the Excise Act or the Excise Act, 2001, or a person having the powers of such an officer, when performing any duty in the administration of any of those Acts,

(d.1) an officer authorized under subsection 138(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act,

(e) a person designated as a fishery guardian under the Fisheries Act when performing any duties or functions under that Act and a person designated as a fishery officer under the Fisheries Act when performing any duties or functions under that Act or the Coastal Fisheries Protection Act,

(f) the pilot in command of an aircraft

(i) registered in Canada under regulations made under the Aeronautics Act, or

(ii) leased without crew and operated by a person who is qualified under regulations made under the Aeronautics Act to be registered as owner of an aircraft registered in Canada under those regulations,

while the aircraft is in flight, and


(g) officers and non-commissioned members of the Canadian Forces who are

(i) appointed for the purposes of section 156 of the National Defence Act, or

(ii) employed on duties that the Governor in Council, in regulations made under the National Defence Act for the purposes of this paragraph, has prescribed to be of such a kind as to necessitate that the officers and non-commissioned members performing them have the powers of peace officers;[/I][/B][/I][/I]

Therefore every CO in Canada is designated a peace officer. However that is all academic here because it is very rare for any peace officer to be granted permission to carry off duty, including the police.

About 10 years ago the Hell's Angels shot and killed an off duty Provincial CO in quebec as she was leaving work. They also ambushed 2 unarmed Quebec CO's in a marked vehicle on their way to do a court escort (no inmated on board). One was kiiled and the other survived.

Having said that I think we should be allowed to carry and need a law similar to your HR 218. I doubt I will ever see it happen in Canada though. We have far to many politically correct bleeding hearts running this country.

[Borntexan]

Is anyone familiar with the relatively new law H R 218??? It's a law that allows all law enforcement officers to carry a concealed weapon anywhere in the country. I'm assuming this does not pertain to correctional officers. Does anyone know for sure? I've heard a lot of conflicting information.

Just get your concealed handgun license (if you can in your state). There you will find out you will still have to do your homework before you travel. Some states do and some do not allow you to carry in certain areas/buildings anyway.

If you are THAT unsure… whether or not YOU can carry…the answer is - NO. If you had to ask, you already know the answer is - NO.

What?
I’m starting to sound like a C.O. answering an inmate’s question of what they are allowed in their cell.
Sorry!!!

Buck –up and do not carry unless you are sure which door you want to come to work through.

[robeans]

wow... I've lived in 5 different states, traveled up both coast lines, drove from WA to PA and not once did i find myself wishing I was able to carry a concealed weapon from state to state. is it really that big of deal to some people? I dont even own a gun.

Wow I was really going to go to town on this one but I just got home and am sleepy. But I may be back.

[KenW.]

not once did i find myself wishing I was able to carry a concealed weapon from state to state. is it really that big of deal to some people?

Yes, it is a big deal. We have taken an oath and swore to come to the aid and defense of others, and we must be able to defend ourselves. Most of us are considered "on" 24-7. Once you've taken the oath and been sworn it's not reasonable to ignore crime or danger around you. I'd be up for an IA if I chose to not take action when I observe a criminal act.

You report yourself as a CO, haven't you recieved any threats? Bad guys cross state lines too.

[proctor]

In California correctional officers are covered under this bill. One of my buddies took a trip to hawaii and was happier than hell that he could carry his weapon with him. I would say look at your state laws and see if correctional officers in your state are covered under this law.
So i know that cdcr officers are sworn peace officers and while on duty they have full powers and they have 24/7 peace officers "status" and while on duty they have full authority. However off duty they carry the 24/7 status but what authority do they have and if carrying a weapon when are they able to use that weapon and not get hung for it?

It seems that when a c/o uses his weapon off duty they are left out? Is this true or ?

[KapsFB]

Virginia Correctional Officers have limited/defined arrest authority. Begs the question whether or not 218 is applicable here for CO's. As I read 218 literally, it doesn't but that may be debatable.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-81.1

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-81.2

[DCPSDcop]

Virginia Correctional Officers have limited/defined arrest authority. Begs the question whether or not 218 is applicable here for CO's. As I read 218 literally, it doesn't but that may be debatable.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-81.1

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+19.2-81.2

yeah that certainly counts as statuatory arrest powers, so as long as the other conditions are met, VA CO's are covered under LEOSA.

[CERT 44]

Regardless if I am on duty or not, if it comes down to some1 posing a threat to me or my family, I'm going to worry about the legality questions after the threat has been eliminated. Obviously I would be following the force continuum.

I work a maximum security unit where at least half of my 70 inmates are in for homicides. I watch a lot of these guys walk right out of the door after they beat their case. You can be walking down the street anytime and run into one of these guys, would like to be carrying no matter what state I happen to be in.

[DH2002]

we had a MP in our unit about a year back get stopped by a VA state trooper and he was carrying concealed with no permit and tried to say 218 covered him too. luckly the trooper cut him a break after a severe *** chewing and let him go he was definately counting his blessings after that stop.

[wokeupscreamin]

Yes, it is a big deal. We have taken an oath and swore to come to the aid and defense of others, and we must be able to defend ourselves. Most of us are considered "on" 24-7. Once you've taken the oath and been sworn it's not reasonable to ignore crime or danger around you. I'd be up for an IA if I chose to not take action when I observe a criminal act.

You report yourself as a CO, haven't you recieved any threats? Bad guys cross state lines too.


I'm refering to PA where we are only "on" for 8 hours of the day. I never took an oath and never swore to anything. I babysit criminals and then go home. Of course Ive recieved threats but I also dont think that the first priority of a thug after a 10 to 20 is to come track down some CO. I mean, If I was down for that long I'd have a list of a million more important things I would wanna do. But I also live in an area where it's perfectly fine to leave your keys in your car at night and not worry about locking your door before going to bed.

[KenW.]

You did ask: is it really that big of deal to some people?

To which I responded, "yes". It may not be to you; it is to those sworn to an oath who take it seriously. I've no idea what Pa. laws say.

You can be a CO in Penna with taking some kind of oath? Interesting. Not for upholding and defending the Constitution, State laws, etc?

[Nightshift va]

You did ask:

To which I responded, "yes". It may not be to you; it is to those sworn to an oath who take it seriously. I've no idea what Pa. laws say.

You can be a CO in Penna with taking some kind of oath? Interesting. Not for upholding and defending the Constitution, State laws, etc?

I agree it is a big deal. HR 218 is a very positive thing that helps protect Police Officers not only from dangereous criminals but moronic anti-gun politicans who dont support the second ammendment. Now an Off duty Police Officer from another state doesn't have to worry about being arrested in crime free cities like New York City that have moronic "no firearms" laws and other "gun free" zones where innocent people aren't shot and killed because the sign says "no guns" such as Va Tech campus.

[NYSJAILER2008]

If you are a sworn LEO and you do not have an off-duty weapon you are insane. Dont become a victim. You took a oath to help the innocent and uphold the law and to do that in this day and time you need your tools

[Willard_DTC]

If you are a sworn LEO and you do not have an off-duty weapon you are insane. Dont become a victim. You took a oath to help the innocent and uphold the law and to do that in this day and time you need your tools


All I can say is this.....I have been around the "game" here in New York for over 18 years now and if you pull that personal weapon out while off duty you had best be prepared to join the ranks of the unemployed. Having Peace Officer status is a perk of this job but I have been told by more than one range officer (all of whom know this stuff inside and out) that while we are allowed to carry personal weapons on our badge the State would prefer that we didn't. Unless you are in a situation that indemnifies you in the States eyes they can and will lock you out and fire you.

If I come across a crime in progress I am going to do what I am legally bound to do......contact the proper law enforcement agency and observe any details that might aid in the arrest of the perpetrator. A guy I know was fired for showing his badge and trying to break up a fight. It's too damn easy to lose your job nowadays so if I decide I want to play cop I'll go become one.

[robeans]

All I can say is this.....I have been around the "game" here in New York for over 18 years now and if you pull that personal weapon out while off duty you had best be prepared to join the ranks of the unemployed. Having Peace Officer status is a perk of this job but I have been told by more than one range officer (all of whom know this stuff inside and out) that while we are allowed to carry personal weapons on our badge the State would prefer that we didn't. Unless you are in a situation that indemnifies you in the States eyes they can and will lock you out and fire you.

If I come across a crime in progress I am going to do what I am legally bound to do......contact the proper law enforcement agency and observe any details that might aid in the arrest of the perpetrator. A guy I know was fired for showing his badge and trying to break up a fight. It's too damn easy to lose your job nowadays so if I decide I want to play cop I'll go become one.

That is why I would just carry as a properly licensed concerned citizen and not evoke any LEO privilege. It's a lot different if your the po po, but CO's have so much gray area it's a little to sketchy to walk that line.

[Willard_DTC]

That is why I would just carry as a properly licensed concerned citizen and not evoke any LEO privilege. It's a lot different if your the po po, but CO's have so much gray area it's a little to sketchy to walk that line.

Thats the problem in a nutshell.....the gray areas. Here in New York they give us peace officer status then basically come out and say that they don't want us to use it. I own an off duty weapon but the only time it ever leaves the house is during hunting season. Many, many times I have seen the petty things they try to fire people for and in no way, shape or form am I going to give them the chance to do this to me....especially with an off duty weapon.

[Stewie]

Thats the problem in a nutshell.....the gray areas. Here in New York they give us peace officer status then basically come out and say that they don't want us to use it. I own an off duty weapon but the only time it ever leaves the house is during hunting season. Many, many times I have seen the petty things they try to fire people for and in no way, shape or form am I going to give them the chance to do this to me....especially with an off duty weapon.

I feel bad for you guys then, I carry when I'm off-duty but I would never ever badge myself unless someone is getting seriously hurt or is about to be killed. I would rather be a great witness and let the on-duties capture the suspect.

[Davidc]

wow... I've lived in 5 different states, traveled up both coast lines, drove from WA to PA and not once did i find myself wishing I was able to carry a concealed weapon from state to state. is it really that big of deal to some people? I dont even own a gun.



I smell a demicrap:rolleyes:

[NYSJAILER2008]

All I can say is this.....I have been around the "game" here in New York for over 18 years now and if you pull that personal weapon out while off duty you had best be prepared to join the ranks of the unemployed. Having Peace Officer status is a perk of this job but I have been told by more than one range officer (all of whom know this stuff inside and out) that while we are allowed to carry personal weapons on our badge the State would prefer that we didn't. Unless you are in a situation that indemnifies you in the States eyes they can and will lock you out and fire you.

If I come across a crime in progress I am going to do what I am legally bound to do......contact the proper law enforcement agency and observe any details that might aid in the arrest of the perpetrator. A guy I know was fired for showing his badge and trying to break up a fight. It's too damn easy to lose your job nowadays so if I decide I want to play cop I'll go become one.
Hey WILLARD DTC,


I completely agree with you, And I know how quick NYSDOCS will fire anybody, but I dont know where you work and/or live but use downstate officers work MAX facilities and live in or near NYC and see the same guys we police inside prison just by going outside for a cup of coffee or to visit family and trust me they really really hate us. We dont live in the woods in small rural one-horse towns where there in no crime and everybody is safe . If you are LEO and live in NYC where 90% of NYSDOC inmates live then you need an off-duty weapon at all times to protect yourself from them if they try to injure or kill you if and when they see you on the street. The only reason I would ever pull an off-duty firearm out of its holster let alone use it was to stop some ex-inmate or current criminal from trying to commit murder or serious pyshical injury on me or any family member that was with me. And if they fire me for that so be I would rather be alive and have my family safe. I would never show my badge or try to stop crime...that is what that police get paid big money to do.

[KenW.]

DELETED

Sorry, that was in poor taste.

[Willard_DTC]

Hey WILLARD DTC,


I completely agree with you, And I know how quick NYSDOCS will fire anybody, but I dont know where you work and/or live but use downstate officers work MAX facilities and live in or near NYC and see the same guys we police inside prison just by going outside for a cup of coffee or to visit family and trust me they really really hate us. We dont live in the woods in small rural one-horse towns where there in no crime and everybody is safe . If you are LEO and live in NYC where 90% of NYSDOC inmates live then you need an off-duty weapon at all times to protect yourself from them if they try to injure or kill you if and when they see you on the street. The only reason I would ever pull an off-duty firearm out of its holster let alone use it was to stop some ex-inmate or current criminal from trying to commit murder or serious pyshical injury on me or any family member that was with me. And if they fire me for that so be I would rather be alive and have my family safe. I would never show my badge or try to stop crime...that is what that police get paid big money to do.


Hey....I didn't mean to come off as sounding like I disagree with you. I agree with everything you said in your previous post and while I don't live in your area I did work down there when I first started and I know how dangerous it can be to live and work in the area of the Big Apple. I just would hate to see any fellow officer get jammed up by the State....plain and simple.

[TX_CO]

wokeupscreamin, with the "do my 8 and a gate paid babysitter mentality" you would get fired quick here.

Yep, we took an oath to support the constitution and execute the duties of the office we were about to enter, and are sworn to uphold all federal, state and local laws, I can write felony and misdemeanor charges, but we are not peace officers and have no authority off duty, so no off duty carry. Very few CO's in Texas carry on duty, I do routinely but that is because of maturity, military experience, training and the trust of my supervisors.

I carry on my conceal handgun license because I live near 7 state prisons including our state execution site and 2 county jails, with an inmate population of 30,000+ within 40 miles of my home, we release all the parolees and discharges (from the 100+ state prisons) into the street locally every weekday, I run into former "guests" of the State daily when out and about and I damned sure will defend myself and my family. I am not a cop, but I deal with the Supermax Ad Seg inmates that will try and have tried to kill me or my coworkers at some point during our time with the State.

[B4uGO]

I may be wrong, but from my understanding, I am a former PA police officer and am still in contact with many criminal justice agents up that way; PA correctional officers are covered within the state statutes with regard to carrying concealed weapons inside the state. It's the out of state and arrest statutory issue that hems them up with regard to LEOSA.

[correctionsguy]

does anyone really think an off duty cop is going to step into a situation flashing their badge and pulling their firearm. NOPE! Any cop in their right mind would do what any CO in their right mind would do, avoid taking any action unless life, limb, or serious bodily injury is going to occur, then and only then take action at each individuals moral and personal discretion.

All the guys I work with daily want no part of any off duty action, especially in the times of finger pointing and scapegoating we live in. Cop or CO carrying a firearm off duty is a personal protection issue, not an enforcement one.

[B4uGO]

does anyone really think an off duty cop is going to step into a situation flashing their badge and pulling their firearm. NOPE! Any cop in their right mind would do what any CO in their right mind would do, avoid taking any action unless life, limb, or serious bodily injury is going to occur, then and only then take action at each individuals moral and personal discretion.

All the guys I work with daily want no part of any off duty action, especially in the times of finger pointing and scapegoating we live in. Cop or CO carrying a firearm off duty is a personal protection issue, not an enforcement one.

AGREED!!!

[KenW.]

I think I'd only take action if it were an "active shooter" type of thing.

Immediate threat to someone...

[NYSJAILER2008]

Hey....I didn't mean to come off as sounding like I disagree with you. I agree with everything you said in your previous post and while I don't live in your area I did work down there when I first started and I know how dangerous it can be to live and work in the area of the Big Apple. I just would hate to see any fellow officer get jammed up by the State....plain and simple.
I wasnt being defensive. I know you understand, we are all team blue. it was for everybody to read, that it should only be 1 situation that calls for firearms being displayed

[NYSJAILER2008]

wokeupscreamin, with the "do my 8 and a gate paid babysitter mentality" you would get fired quick here.

Yep, we took an oath to support the constitution and execute the duties of the office we were about to enter, and are sworn to uphold all federal, state and local laws, I can write felony and misdemeanor charges, but we are not peace officers and have no authority off duty, so no off duty carry. Very few CO's in Texas carry on duty, I do routinely but that is because of maturity, military experience, training and the trust of my supervisors.

I carry on my conceal handgun license because I live near 7 state prisons including our state execution site and 2 county jails, with an inmate population of 30,000+ within 40 miles of my home, we release all the parolees and discharges (from the 100+ state prisons) into the street locally every weekday, I run into former "guests" of the State daily when out and about and I damned sure will defend myself and my family. I am not a cop, but I deal with the Supermax Ad Seg inmates that will try and have tried to kill me or my coworkers at some point during our time with the State.
That is the reaality that most civilian and othe LEO dont understand about corrections....INMATES They Hate US!!!!!!!!

[NYSJAILER2008]

does anyone really think an off duty cop is going to step into a situation flashing their badge and pulling their firearm. NOPE! Any cop in their right mind would do what any CO in their right mind would do, avoid taking any action unless life, limb, or serious bodily injury is going to occur, then and only then take action at each individuals moral and personal discretion.

All the guys I work with daily want no part of any off duty action, especially in the times of finger pointing and scapegoating we live in. Cop or CO carrying a firearm off duty is a personal protection issue, not an enforcement one.
I concur wiht you fine sir!!!!!!!!!!

[BigHouseGreen]

In CA. we have peace officer status but our peace officer authority stops at the gate. So in essence we can carry off duty but the authority to arrest somebody off duty is not there. Then again I don't know any street cop that would go out of their way to arrest somebody off duty either. I carry off duty all the time because I have run into parolees not far from where I live. I would also never badge or pull my gun when I don't have to. If there is a crime being committed then I will do what any street cop would do and that is to be a good witness and call 911 and let the on duties handle the situation. That would be the only smart thing to do since I normally do not carry cuffs or have a police radio in which I could call for back up. All I have is a cell which connects to a CHP dispatch and then whatever jurisdiction I am in they would have to patch me through to them so it could be a while before I see any black and whites show up.

[SPARTAN-141]

I feel bad for you guys then, I carry when I'm off-duty but I would never ever badge myself unless someone is getting seriously hurt or is about to be killed. I would rather be a great witness and let the on-duties capture the suspect.

thats the only way to carry. remember you are off duty and carrying a concealed weapon, it should stay that way. only draw your weapon when the criteria to use deadly force has been met. i.e. prevent GREAT BODILY INJURY likely to result in death, and prevent THE LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE. thats it, nothing else. so if you see people arguing and getting physical. your best tool is a cell phone and maybe a cell phone camera. get it on video and call the police thats the best thing you can do to help. but if you see someone getting stabbed with a knife or being beaten to a pulp with a baseball bat or tire iron. ask yourself has the criteria to use deadly force been met. is the attack continous? yes. is the attack causing great bodily injury likely to result in death? yes. now the only decision you have to make is wether or not you are going to do what is needed to save a human life.
that choice, the decision to shoot, only you can make.

[arizonyames]

SPARTAN-141 wrote: thats the only way to carry. remember you are off duty and carrying a concealed weapon, it should stay that way. only draw your weapon when the criteria to use deadly force has been met. i.e. prevent GREAT BODILY INJURY likely to result in death, and prevent THE LOSS OF HUMAN LIFE. thats it, nothing else. so if you see people arguing and getting physical. your best tool is a cell phone and maybe a cell phone camera. get it on video and call the police thats the best thing you can do to help. but if you see someone getting stabbed with a knife or being beaten to a pulp with a baseball bat or tire iron. ask yourself has the criteria to use deadly force been met. is the attack continous? yes. is the attack causing great bodily injury likely to result in death? yes. now the only decision you have to make is wether or not you are going to do what is needed to save a human life. That choice, the decision to shoot, only you can make.

I agree with this totally. Having been on both sides of law enforcement (corrections and patrolling the street), one of the questions you have to answer in such a situation is, "who is the real perp?" You may have come upon a victim who has turned the tables on their attacker (not likely, but....) This is the exact same scenario a patrol officer might have seen. That is just one of the many reasons why a patrol officer will loudly proclaim, "DROP THE KNIFE/BAT/etc". As an off duty officer you have a duty to protect life. That duty means that you will intervene ONLY if life is in danger. That is the same reason a patrol officer will draw his/her sidearm.

To those who think that the idea of a correction's officer carrying off duty is insane, I would like to point out what happened to me, and local law enforcement's response when I talked to the local chief of police. I worked AZ state prison complex in Winslow. I had an inmate whom the sergeant and I locked down because the i/m refused to cell up when I told him to. He later threatened my family's and my lives (he was AB, had served his full term, and was getting out in two days). I wrote a report, and the state took it seriously enough that they transported him 60 miles away to the next town to catch the bus. They dropped him off 10 miles outside of town and told him to hoof it the rest of the way. They also told him that he had no friends or relatives in Winslow, so he had no reason to come back. IF he was seen back in town, it would be taken by DOC, it's officers, and myself that he was attempting to fulfill his threat, and the results would NOT be in his favor. I reported this to the local police chief to advise him why he would see me around town carrying openly (AZ did not have concealed carry for CO's at the time). His response was, "why, you don't need to..." The point is, we are responsible for our, our brothers/sisters of the cloth, and our own safety. I'm getting back into corrections after being out for a while. The state I'm in DOES fall under HR-218, and I WILL be carrying off duty.

[wokeupscreamin]

wokeupscreamin, with the "do my 8 and a gate paid babysitter mentality" you would get fired quick here.

Yep, we took an oath to support the constitution and execute the duties of the office we were about to enter, and are sworn to uphold all federal, state and local laws, I can write felony and misdemeanor charges, but we are not peace officers and have no authority off duty, so no off duty carry .


Yeah, we never took an oath. I took a test, had a physical and sat in a class room for 5 weeks then was handed a set of keys and a radio. We can do write-ups but those are treated mearly as suggestions from the co's to the big wigs who actually impose the penalties. alot of the time they just get thrown out by the bleeding heart liberals who run the show.

[hankrearden2000]

Yep, we took an oath to support the constitution and execute the duties of the office we were about to enter, and are sworn to uphold all federal, state and local laws, I can write felony and misdemeanor charges, but we are not peace officers and have no authority off duty, so no off duty carry. Very few CO's in Texas carry on duty, I do routinely but that is because of maturity, military experience, training and the trust of my supervisors.



HR 218 doesn't require you to have authority off-duty in order to carry under its provisions. It only requires that you have statutory arrest authority period, which it sounds like you do if you can recommend charges to the prosecutor. If you can recommend charges it sounds like you should be able to prevent the chargee from fleeing--which is arrest authority.

We in the BOP don't have authority off-duty either, but the Attorney General of the United States says that we are covered by 218.

[NYSJAILER2008]

We in the BOP don't have authority off-duty either, but the Attorney General of the United States says that we are covered by 218.[/QUOTE]

How does that work in Federal Corrections (BOP). Its officers are not allowed off duty carry. I am from NYC area and I heard a story of an officer getting jammed up with NYPD for a criminal possession charge for off-duty carry and the NYPD called his facility and the supervisor threw him under the bus, saying he is not allowed to carry off-duty,,,,But I know so many BOP officer that carry ,,,,are they doing it against the risk?

[hankrearden2000]

Go to the law to find out what the law says. Don't rely on someone else's uninformed opinion and rumors. I posted the LEOSA of 2004 in this thread. At this link http://forums.prisonofficer.org/law-enforcement-officers-safety-act/198-federal-bureau-prisons-leosa.html you will find the BOP Director's memo on the subject. Attached to it is the AG Opinion and the statute itself. Why anyone would care if the cops call the institution and ask is beyond me. Most BOP managers don't know what law and policy say on most topics, or are quite happy to lie through their teeth to cause an officer grief. LEOSA of 2004 (HR218) allows BOP officers to carry off-duty.

The case you are thinking of dates back to 1977 when MDC Brooklyn Officer Julio Marrero was arrested by NYPD punks and convicted of carrying a concealed handgun illegally. Marrero was relying on the NY statute that allows COs to carry concealed weapons. The statute exempts guards of "any state prison or of any penal correctional institution" from its draconian gun laws. The court convicted him anyway.

The appeals court in 1988 upheld the conviction in a 3 to 2 ruling saying that the statute that allows COs to carry only applies to NY state officers, not federal officers.

Good job NYPD, prosecutors, judges, and all the rest of you winners involved in that one!!!

[NYSJAILER2008]

Go to the law to find out what the law says. Don't rely on someone else's uninformed opinion and rumors. I posted the LEOSA of 2004 in this thread. At this link http://forums.prisonofficer.org/law-enforcement-officers-safety-act/198-federal-bureau-prisons-leosa.html you will find the BOP Director's memo on the subject. Attached to it is the AG Opinion and the statute itself. Why anyone would care if the cops call the institution and ask is beyond me. Most BOP managers don't know what law and policy say on most topics, or are quite happy to lie through their teeth to cause an officer grief. LEOSA of 2004 (HR218) allows BOP officers to carry off-duty.

The case you are thinking of dates back to 1977 when MDC Brooklyn Officer Julio Marrero was arrested by NYPD punks and convicted of carrying a concealed handgun illegally. Marrero was relying on the NY statute that allows COs to carry concealed weapons. The statute exempts guards of "any state prison or of any penal correctional institution" from its draconian gun laws. The court convicted him anyway.

The appeals court in 1988 upheld the conviction in a 3 to 2 ruling saying that the statute that allows COs to carry only applies to NY state officers, not federal officers.

Good job NYPD, prosecutors, judges, and all the rest of you winners involved in that one!!!
ohhhhh ok thanks for the info....So you are saying we dont have that problem today with overzealous patrol officers not knowing the law trying to arrest federal CO's

[hankrearden2000]

So you are saying we dont have that problem today with overzealous patrol officers not knowing the law trying to arrest federal CO's

I'm not saying that at all. I'm sure there are plenty of ignoramuses in NYC behind a badge. But, the arrests will be unlawful arrests because there is no Probable Cause to believe that a crime has been committed. You can't have Probable Cause to arrest someone for committing a legal act. The fact that some retards choose to remain ignorant of the law and still arrest people does and should open them personally, and their departments, up to severe legal damages.

[NYSJAILER2008]

I'm not saying that at all. I'm sure there are plenty of ignoramuses in NYC behind a badge. But, the arrests will be unlawful arrests because there is no Probable Cause to believe that a crime has been committed. You can't have Probable Cause to arrest someone for committing a legal act. The fact that some retards choose to remain ignorant of the law and still arrest people does and should open them personally, and their departments, up to severe legal damages.
Great info

[josemv78]

Is Nevada C/O covered in HR 218 since its under a Cat3 Peace Officer status?

[Fed C.O.33]

Actually title 18 does not specify if the Bop arrest authority applies to on or off duty. but I do know this weak pathetic agency will not back you.

[nycboldest21]

As long as you have peace officer status you are allowed to carry your firearm in any state....but you must abide by those state laws

[Fed C.O.33]

Wrong you must have statutory arrest authority to carry under leosa. Example the Ga Doc gives their Officers Peace Officer status however GA C.O.s do not have statutory arrest authority so when it comes to crossing state lines they are not covered.