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BOSMIA
01-31-2008, 10:29 PM
Florida Highway Patrol Faces Uncertain Future

POSTED: 4:27 pm EST January 31, 2008
UPDATED: 9:05 pm EST January 31, 2008


JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The men and women who work with the Florida Highway Patrol to keep state roadways safe could soon face some major changes at the hands of a government agency that's looking at ways to save money.

Many drivers think the FHP troopers just write speeding tickets along the interstates, which is actually a good portion of their job and a revenue source for the state, but now some lawmakers are looking at several different options for the future of the FHP.

The first recommendation involves moving the FHP to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, which includes the state detectives who handle major crimes in Florida.

The second recommendation is to move the FHP to the Department of Transportation, which builds and maintains roads.

The third choice is to make the FHP their own agency that would no longer be affiliated with the division.

The fourth option is to do away with the FHP completely.

The recommendation to possibly do away with the FHP has Jacksonville Sheriff John Rutherford up in arms.

Rutherford said with the budget cuts he has to make he couldn't understand why the state would consider having local police pick up the slack if the FHP went away.

"Here he is with one of the options is to do away with the Florida Highway Patrol and put that responsibility on me, and then when I increase revenue to cover that additional responsibility he wants to paint me the bad guy. I am furious about that," Rutherford said.

The four recommendations came from a government agency in Tallahassee that looks at state programs in search of money-saving changes.

The FHP has a $217 million budget.

Reporter Jim Piggott went to the FHP headquarters on Normandy Boulevard to talk to them about the proposals before the Legislature. They agreed to talk, but after contacting their superiors they said they could not comment.

However, Sen. Stephen Wise could comment, and told Channel 4 he disagrees with any plans get rid of FHP.

"I think that has probably gone too far. I think FHP is a very good organization and has been here a long time. They patrol the interstates, and that real function that is necessary especially in the rural areas," Wise said.

Thursday afternoon, Channel 4 received an email from FHP director Col. John Cernis. Cernis wrote:
"We believe that it is essential to the safety and well-being of the people of Florida that the patrol continues to provide law enforcement services on our highways. Ultimately, our state leadership, after a comprehensive and thorough review, will determine what is in the best interest of our state. We have the utmost confidence in their work and their support of the Florida Highway Patrol."

Copyright 2008 by News4Jax.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/15187950/detail.html

JTShooter
01-31-2008, 11:02 PM
Holy s***, FHP has a smaller budget the Broward Sheriff's Office! That is unbelievable...

PS100
01-31-2008, 11:07 PM
Wow this is bad....I'll still pursue employment with them, but it makes you wonder about long-term prospects. At least once you're certified you're certifie, and that's it.

LeanG
01-31-2008, 11:15 PM
Whoa, WTF????

Does this mean I should start exploring my options?

Amaroq
02-01-2008, 12:24 AM
Imagine all those deputies doing long forms? :)
Wow.... I had to completely relearn them when I went city....

Duo
02-01-2008, 12:30 AM
The first and third options are the only ones that make sense.
It wouldn't hurt to make FDLE and FHP one agency and it should have never been a department of the DMV.
Making it part of FLDOT just doesn't make sense at all.

MidCareer
02-01-2008, 12:49 AM
For once, I somewhat agree with Duo. Combine FDLE and FHP and transform it into the "Florida State Police."

hellhammer
02-01-2008, 01:15 AM
First option would create STATE POLICE..... hmm?

LAWENFORCER
02-01-2008, 01:53 AM
State Police will never happen! The Florida Sheriffs Association will not let that happen.


The FHP will not be going anywhere. The public will not let it happen. If FHP will be disbanded, there will be a huge public outcry.

Duo
02-01-2008, 02:32 AM
Thats the problem with a State Police. The Sheriff's Association wouldn't put up with that, and rightly so.
I think the best thing would be to disassociate the Highway Patrol from the Division. Budget wise it would probably help the HP since the legislature can put money directly into the patrol instead of the DMV.

ftlaudcop
02-01-2008, 07:39 AM
For once, I somewhat agree with Duo. Combine FDLE and FHP and transform it into the "Florida State Police."

the fla sheriff's are not going to have that for sure, i think if they go state police they are under the gov, and thus more power etc.....

the f.h.p. should retreat outta south fla gracefully, and patrol north of
martin county/; stuart, the sheriff's southward would get the manpower money and add to it if nescessary for full time highway unit/ dedicated units.

the trouble is, we have farmers, chicken farmers, fuller brush salesman in
the state capital who know nothing of police work/ corrections thinking
1950's era nonsense because they never been down here or lived here and
their 1 flashing lite county encompasses the fla in their pea brains.

Blueribbon
02-01-2008, 09:06 AM
Putting like entities together only makes sense when your trying to save money. Florida Marine Patrol and Game and Fish were combined several years ago, and I voted for that. Guess what? It worked! FDOT MCC, FHP and DOA LE should all be put in the same basket as well. Vehicle inspections, crashes, pulling over log trucks and writing tickets will also go hand in hand. I know someone is going to get upset over me saying this... but, I know nobody likes change. Also why we'er at it, throw in FDLE.

crimefighter
02-01-2008, 09:42 AM
Putting like entities together only makes sense when your trying to save money. Florida Marine Patrol and Game and Fish were combined several years ago, and I voted for that. Guess what? It worked! FDOT MCC, FHP and DOA LE should all be put in the same basket as well. Vehicle inspections, crashes, pulling over log trucks and writing tickets will also go hand in hand. I know someone is going to get upset over me saying this... but, I know nobody likes change. Also why we'er at it, throw in FDLE.

I'm NOT upset; it makes alot of freakin sense and thats the problem with our state legislature and govt. powers that be, which are impowered to make descisions on these issues. Talk about spending state budgetary monies; why haven't they gone to one unitized look for all state officers? Yes, we voted unity of the agencies as mentioned earlier ie;FHP, FWC, MCCO but why aren't there patrol cars the same in appearance? Think of the money saved to order vehicles that look alike no matter what it is( chrger, f-250, crown vic ) there badge or uniform can look different as long as citizens recognise them as an LEO with state powers. Just an idea to save myself more tax dollars......ashame maybe I should run for office???:cool:

ref your last statement about "change" it's only the dinosaur administrations in small podunk towns mostly North of Orlando/ Tampa areas.

alpha1906
02-01-2008, 10:16 AM
For once, I somewhat agree with Duo. Combine FDLE and FHP and transform it into the "Florida State Police."

State Police, State Patrol, Highway Patrol? Whats the difference? I thought different states just called them differnt things. But I think they basically do the same job. Enforce highway traffic laws and handle wrecks. Insmaller communities they answer calls for service. ALL state Troopers do that dont they?

I mean her ein GA the GSP works the highways in large cities, and they answere calls in small towns.

Blueribbon
02-01-2008, 10:28 AM
alpha1906... Here is the bulk of the FHP officer's responsibility from the FL state statute 321.05(1):

To patrol the state highways and regulate, control, and direct the movement of traffic thereon; to maintain the public peace by preventing violence on highways; to apprehend fugitives from justice; to enforce all laws now in effect regulating and governing traffic, travel, and public safety upon the public highways and providing for the protection of the public highways and public property thereon; to make arrests without warrant for the violation of any state law committed in their presence in accordance with the laws of this state; providing that no search shall be made unless it is incident to a lawful arrest, to regulate and direct traffic concentrations and congestions; to enforce laws governing the operation, licensing, and taxing and limiting the size, weight, width, length, and speed of vehicles and licensing and controlling the operations of drivers and operators of vehicles; to cooperate with officials designated by law to collect all state fees and revenues levied as an incident to the use or right to use the highways for any purpose; to require the drivers of vehicles to stop and exhibit their driver's licenses, registration cards, or documents required by law to be carried by such vehicles; to investigate traffic accidents, secure testimony of witnesses and of persons involved, and make report thereof with copy, when requested in writing, to any person in interest or his or her attorney; to investigate reported thefts of vehicles and to seize contraband or stolen property on or being transported on the highways.

towncop
02-01-2008, 11:09 AM
State Police, State Patrol, Highway Patrol? Whats the difference? I thought different states just called them differnt things. But I think they basically do the same job. Enforce highway traffic laws and handle wrecks. Insmaller communities they answer calls for service. ALL state Troopers do that dont they?

I mean her ein GA the GSP works the highways in large cities, and they answere calls in small towns.


There's a huge difference between a "state police" agency and a "highway patrol" agency. Generally, a state police department is a full-service department that does it all. And, in most cases a highway patrol department's PRIMARY objective is to reduce traffic crashes, work them, and work traffic (speeding tickets). Big difference.

towncop
02-01-2008, 11:11 AM
State Police will never happen! The Florida Sheriffs Association will not let that happen.




That's stupid.

BOSMIA
02-01-2008, 11:24 AM
There's a huge difference between a "state police" agency and a "highway patrol" agency. Generally, a state police department is a full-service department that does it all. And, in most cases a highway patrol department's PRIMARY objective is to reduce traffic crashes, work them, and work traffic (speeding tickets). Big difference.

Ya Massachusetts is a good example of this. MA. State Police work the highways, as well as the airport, as well as local towns and cities as back up to city and town cops. They do it all except the prisons. The Sheriff works the prisons.

MTRJOC
02-01-2008, 11:28 AM
Florida Highway Patrol
Options
1.Transfer the Department of Law Enforcement (p. 4) 2.Transfer to the Department of Transportation (p. 5) 3.Merge with DOT’s Motor Carrier Compliance Office (p. 5) 4.Operate as a stand-alone agency (p. 6) 5.Abolish the Patrol (p. 6) 6.Limit functions to state highway s (p. 7)

http://www.oppaga.state.fl.us/nosearch/presentations/1-7-08_DMV_Sunset/01-07-08_DMV_Sunset_frame.htm

The report is at the above address. The abolishment of the Patrol is the most unlikely option.

BOSMIA
02-01-2008, 11:29 AM
Florida Highway Patrol
Options
1.Transfer the Department of Law Enforcement (p. 4) 2.Transfer to the Department of Transportation (p. 5) 3.Merge with DOT’s Motor Carrier Compliance Office (p. 5) 4.Operate as a stand-alone agency (p. 6) 5.Abolish the Patrol (p. 6) 6.Limit functions to state highway s (p. 7)

http://www.oppaga.state.fl.us/nosearch/presentations/1-7-08_DMV_Sunset/01-07-08_DMV_Sunset_frame.htm

The report is at the above address. The abolishment of the Patrol is the most unlikely option.

I would agree. I would be very suprised if they wiped out the whole department.

quannj
02-01-2008, 12:26 PM
yea, the highway patrol is going anywhere, i know of NO state that doesn't have a HP or SP...there's to much money out there for the state to even consider that.... and the pubilc would never go for it


personally, they can change the name, i can care less as long as i'm offered a job

BOSMIA
02-01-2008, 03:46 PM
yea, the highway patrol is going anywhere, i know of NO state that doesn't have a HP or SP...there's to much money out there for the state to even consider that.... and the pubilc would never go for it


personally, they can change the name, i can care less as long as i'm offered a job

Amen to that

sibpd893tf
02-01-2008, 06:30 PM
Combine FHP, AgLaw and MCCO to form a single stand-alone agency. Then enact legislation that limits their responsibility. (ie - Maryland State Police). In Maryland, the state police are limited to Interstate and state highways for traffic enforcement. In incorporated cities that have their own police department, the Maryland State Police is banned from conducting law enforcement within the corporate boundaries; except for certain narcotics related investigations and task force operations. If FHP operates like that, manpower issues will be resolved and their resources will be allocated where they are needed most. Bottom line; the Sheriff's Office and police departments control general law enforcement activities in the Great State of Florida! And we can handle traffic crashes too! With the "locals" handling traffic crashes, especially in South Florida, the dumbass drivers won't have to wait a couple of hours for a trooper to respond; then the drivers will have nothing but praise for the service they received on a timely basis from the locals. The swift response from law enforcement is what this TOURIST FRIENDLY State is all about!!!

JLRapp18
02-01-2008, 07:13 PM
yea, the highway patrol is going anywhere, i know of NO state that doesn't have a HP or SP...there's to much money out there for the state to even consider that.... and the pubilc would never go for it


Hawaii...

is the only state w/o a highway patrol or state police.

arcop223
02-01-2008, 07:17 PM
see next.....

arcop223
02-01-2008, 07:19 PM
[QUOTE=quannj;1089676]yea, the highway patrol is going anywhere, i know of NO state that doesn't have a HP or SP...there's to much money out there for the state to even consider that.... and the pubilc would never go for it

Hawaii, no state police, they do have the five-o

rich75
02-01-2008, 07:33 PM
Hopefully they do not get rid of them for the sake of those guys. Their numbers are already low and I seriously doubt they will fill those spots with new applicants with an article like this. I guess some officer and deputies better start learning to do a long form.

soflacop
02-01-2008, 07:52 PM
Combine FHP, AgLaw and MCCO to form a single stand-alone agency. Then enact legislation that limits their responsibility. (ie - Maryland State Police). In Maryland, the state police are limited to Interstate and state highways for traffic enforcement. In incorporated cities that have their own police department, the Maryland State Police is banned from conducting law enforcement within the corporate boundaries; except for certain narcotics related investigations and task force operations. If FHP operates like that, manpower issues will be resolved and their resources will be allocated where they are needed most. Bottom line; the Sheriff's Office and police departments control general law enforcement activities in the Great State of Florida! And we can handle traffic crashes too! With the "locals" handling traffic crashes, especially in South Florida, the dumbass drivers won't have to wait a couple of hours for a trooper to respond; then the drivers will have nothing but praise for the service they received on a timely basis from the locals. The swift response from law enforcement is what this TOURIST FRIENDLY State is all about!!!

uh how about no? Some areas of the county have too high of a call volume already look at hammocks for example, where if you get a fender bender you might be waiting several hours for a unit to arrive during peak hours.. Adding more calls to service would be really bad.

quannj
02-01-2008, 09:15 PM
Hawaii...

is the only state w/o a highway patrol or state police.

umm i never think of hawaii...ok the contential (sp?)48

alpha1906
02-01-2008, 10:04 PM
There's a huge difference between a "state police" agency and a "highway patrol" agency. Generally, a state police department is a full-service department that does it all. And, in most cases a highway patrol department's PRIMARY objective is to reduce traffic crashes, work them, and work traffic (speeding tickets). Big difference.

So, what is the Georgia State Patrol then? All states (except Hawaii) Have Troopers

towncop
02-02-2008, 07:46 PM
So, what is the Georgia State Patrol then? I don't know, I'm not familiar with their mission. You're from Georgia, are they a full-service agency?


All states (except Hawaii) Have Troopers

And? What's your point? Just because all states have "troopers" doesn't mean that all of them are primary, call-taking, officers. As I've mentioned, many state police agencies primary duty is TRAFFIC.

InterstateLaw
02-02-2008, 08:05 PM
Error!!!!!!

InterstateLaw
02-02-2008, 08:07 PM
Error!!!!!

InterstateLaw
02-02-2008, 08:26 PM
In Maryland, the state police are limited to Interstate and state highways for traffic enforcement. In incorporated cities that have their own police department, the Maryland State Police is banned from conducting law enforcement within the corporate boundaries; except for certain narcotics related investigations and task force operations.

Your facts are a little off

§2–412.
(a) (1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated.
(2) “Emergency” means a sudden or unexpected happening or an unforeseen combination of circumstances that calls for immediate action to protect health, safety, welfare, or property from actual or threatened harm or from an unlawful act.
(3) “Municipal corporation” includes Baltimore City.
(b) (1) Police employees have throughout the State the same powers, privileges, immunities, and defenses as sheriffs, constables, police officers, and other peace officers possessed at common law and may now or in the future exercise within their respective jurisdictions.
(2) A police employee may execute an arrest warrant in any part of the State without further endorsement.
(c) Police employees may not act within the limits of a municipal corporation that maintains a police force except:
(1) when in pursuit of a criminal or suspect;
(2) when in search of a criminal or suspect wanted for a crime committed outside of the limits of the municipal corporation or when interviewing or seeking to interview a witness or supposed witness to the crime;
(3) when a crime is committed in the presence of the police employee, and the arrested party must be immediately transferred to the custody of the local law enforcement agency;
(4) when requested to act by the chief executive officer or chief police officer of the municipal corporation;
(5) when ordered by the Governor to act within the municipal corporation;
(6) when enforcing the motor vehicle laws of the State, except in Baltimore City;
(7) in Baltimore City, only when enforcing Title 23 of the Transportation Article;
(8) in any building or place when ordered by either the President of the Senate or the Speaker of the House of Delegates to guard the safety of legislators or the integrity of the legislative process;
(9) to protect the safety of an elected State official;
(10) in the municipal corporations of Somerset County;
(11) when enforcing § 11-207 of the Criminal Law Article;
(12) (i) 1. when participating in a joint investigation with officials from another State, federal, or local law enforcement agency at least one of which has local jurisdiction;
2. when rendering assistance to a police officer;
3. when acting at the request of a local police officer; or
4. when an emergency exists; and
(ii) when acting in accordance with regulations adopted by the Secretary to implement this item;
(13) when conducting investigations relating to or otherwise enforcing § 7-302 of the Criminal Law Article; or
(14) when conducting an investigation under § 9-602.1 of the Correctional Services Article.
(d) A police employee may not be placed on detached service and act for a federal department, agency, or committee outside of the State without the written approval of the Governor or as otherwise provided by law.

LAWENFORCER
02-02-2008, 09:20 PM
Listen, FHP will not be disbanded! It is a political suicide for any politician.

hellhammer
02-02-2008, 11:21 PM
Wouldn't separating it into its own law enforcement entity help the trooper pay and budget?

Sanford&Son
02-02-2008, 11:54 PM
The long form isn't a big deal. The big deal I have is using my agency's computerized diagram drawing system.

I'd trade that for a pencil and paper any day! ;)

Amaroq
02-03-2008, 10:40 PM
The one thing I miss from being a deputy is NOT doing long forms. I-5 FHP was a great way to close out a call. Can't do that no more. And I know a lot of deputies that are "shakin in dem boots" that they might (unlikely) have to work traffic. hehehe

GatorPD
02-04-2008, 07:36 PM
Combine FHP, AgLaw and MCCO to form a single stand-alone agency. Then enact legislation that limits their responsibility. (ie - Maryland State Police).

I am sorry, but that is just stupid. There is no need to restrict their authority. If a trooper is driving by my house and sees it being vandalized (a misdemeanor), I don't want him to keep driving because his hands are tied.

Obviously an agency directive that restricts the "mission" of the department to traffic stuff, because troopers don't necessarily need to be patrolling my neighborhood, but tying their hands by law is a majorly bad idea.

On the note of merger, I think Aglaw, MCC, and FHP could easilly be merged. Some people complain about the differences in hiring standards, that an aglaw officer wouldnt "cut it" as a trooper, etc... no one says they have to be the same job classification or do the same thing. Do you think every single deputy sheriff does the same job within a sheriff's office? No, you have detectives, patrol deputies, school resource, etc. If you merge the departments, you leave MCC guys doing commercial vehicle stuff. Troopers keep doing traffic. Ag guys keep their stuff up. There are certainly some areas of redundacy that could be removed (I-10 has an ag station and a dot station within 2 miles of each other. Those could be merged).

Basically, the guys currently in Ag could take over all the weigh and inspection stations (for both Ag and DoT. Do it all at once at the same spots). DoT guys keep driving around looking for commercial stuff, just encorporating a little bit more general traffic into their routine. The reverse for troopers. They would all be "florida highway patrol" but they would be in differnet divisions. If an inspection station trooper (previously Aglaw) wants to go to the road, then he puts in a transfer request. If deemed appropriate, then he moves to the road patrol division. Their cars would all look the same, the uniforms too (maybe a different rocker under the patch designating the Division). You could probably stick Capitol Police in there too. Many states patrol their capitol buildings with troopers.

It would be easy to merge a few of the investigative agencies together too. Stick Fire and Arson, Alcohol and Tobacco, DEP (investigations), Consumer Services (AgLaw's investigators), Insurance Fraud, and Lottery investigators under FDLE. Again, as above, FDLE has different divisions already. White Collar investigators don't do general cases. Protective Operations agents don't investigate crimes at the Racinos. You would just add in new groups of special agents assigned to work environmental crimes, or arsons, or alcohol and tobacco, etc. Once merged, agents could of course request transfers to another division just like FDLE currently allows.

That only leaves FWC and DEP. DEP could potentially go with the FHP group above, but I think would be better suited to merge with FWC (previously marine patrol, etc). Again, if a DEP guy wants to transfer to game enforcement, he puts in a transfer request. It might require additional training.

I guess my point is that merging agencies does not require the employee pools to be squished all together and make everyone do the same job. It would cut some higher level positions (those guys who make 100 and 150k a year), alleviate a lot of the non-sworn support (no need for 4 different HR departments), save some money, make a little more uniformity, but all without adding any real "extra power" to any of the agencies. I think if done right and spun right, the FSA might not oppose it.... but what do I know.

FL5OH
02-04-2008, 08:55 PM
In response to Gator PD,

While it is only good in theory in FL, I wanted to let you know how they do it in NY. They have the NY State Police. Inside the State Police, you've got your patrol troopers, investigators (detectives), motor carrier safety section (big rigs and transport vehicles) and other "specialized" units. Everyone starts out as a trooper. You do a few years, and then apply to one of the more specialized units, such as Motor Carrier. You can get there, but ultimately, you're required to start out as a trooper.

Same for the county PD's on long island. Suffolk Co. PD has their precincts. They also have command bureau which is run out of HQ. In CB is Highway Patrol, K9, Marine, Aviation, etc. Same deal...you're required to start out as a patrol officer in one of the 7 precincts and after you have some time in, you apply for a transfer to a specialized unit.

Personally I think it'd be a dang good system, but would never happen in FL.

Just an FYI. Stay safe, bro

fleetguy
02-04-2008, 09:08 PM
I think Gator PD hit it on the head. DEP and FWC seem to overlap in some areas, i've been borded by FWC and DEP on the water and both times i got the same safty check. I bet Florida could save alot of money in LE if there where not somany diffrent state level agencys running around. Some of the big SOs have traffic, SRO, marine patrol, patrol, nercatics, rural service, and so on working in the same uniform doing very diffrent jobs.

d10mack
02-04-2008, 09:13 PM
www.whitestkids.com

Blueribbon
02-06-2008, 10:04 AM
Not too many years ago, "Weights and Measures" was part of FHP and it was moved to DOT... I know I'm telling my age. It only makes since to put like entities together. If it deals with vehicles, put 'em in the same boat.

noneyet
02-08-2008, 02:14 AM
What some of you guys are forgetting is that in Florida the Sheriff is the top LEO in his county (sorry PD guys). It is not the Sheriffs Association but the state constitution that would make a state police impossible.

FHP is required by statute to work ALL motor vehicle crashes in the unincorporated areas of the state. The Sheriff may work the crashes if he sees fit.

In my county we work long and short form crashes and there better be serious injuries or a s7 before most supervisors will let you call FHP (unless they just happen to roll up on it first). I don't know if other counties can do this, i have not worked there. Honestly though a long form is not that big of a deal and there is no reason to make someone wait for hours for a short form. I guess what I am saying is I don't see why more SOs don't work crashes, cutting down on citizen wait times increases votes.

I think combining agencies as GatorPD suggested would make sense. A state certified LEO is just that. Combining agencies does not give those guys any more or less power than they already have.

Anyways JM2C YMMV

BOSMIA
02-08-2008, 11:58 AM
I think combining agencies as GatorPD suggested would make sense. A state certified LEO is just that. Combining agencies does not give those guys any more or less power than they already have.

Anyways JM2C YMMV


True True

GatorPD
02-08-2008, 08:17 PM
Wouldn't separating it into its own law enforcement entity help the trooper pay and budget?

Not really. Now you'd have to staff more HR positions, increase pay of the top brass to bring them in line with other "executive director" type payscales, they'd have to have their own Inspector General and General Counsel and what not. I don't see how creating a new agency would save any money unless it were a combined agency of several other older agencies (i.e. yes, making a new State Police would cost more than leaving FHP by itself, but would save money if you brought in DOT and Aglaw (or whatever) Into the mix)


What some of you guys are forgetting is that in Florida the Sheriff is the top LEO in his county (sorry PD guys). It is not the Sheriffs Association but the state constitution that would make a state police impossible.

When I say the FSA, I am not saying that the association itself is against it, I am referring to the voice of Florida's Sheriffs in the legislature, which most of the sheriffs in the state lobby through. Very few sheriff's lobby on their own behalf or agendas.

The Sheriffs are the top LE officials in their county because of hard lobbying efforts for the past 75+ years. They have fought and scraped to keep their power and authority. If you look at other states that have a true State Police, in many of them the Sheriff only oversees the jails, courts, and civil processes. 50 years ago, the sheriffs in those states were as powerful as ours are now. They just were not successful in keeping ahold of their power through the legislative process.

If I were a Sheriff, I would fight tooth-and-nail to prevent one, powerful, state police agency, because 50 years from now, my predecessors might be stuck being the "chief jailor and baliff" of the county.

The reality is that that probably wouldn't happen at this point in time. Maybe if there had been a State Police formed 50 years ago things would be different, but ages change and I don't see a State Police ousting the sheriffs at this point. The FSA would still rather not risk it.

As for the state constitution... it isn't like the US Constitution. It can be changed relatively easilly if the legislature wants to ammend it to accomodate something like a merger. It would be an incredably taxing process though. Merging agencies also means revising all the various laws, administrative codes, DMS guidelines, etc etc that relate to them. It would take 5 years at least to successfully merge large agencies like FHP with DOT or what not. Something like adding Insurance Fraud in with FDLE might not take quite as much effort.

John from Maryland
02-09-2008, 07:09 PM
Not to hijack this, but Maryland State Police do have fairly wide authority within municipalities with their own PD's. MSP may enforce traffic laws, protect the governor and other state officials, and make on-scene arrests. As noted, they also can enforce narcotics laws and work with the approval of the local PD. The law restricting their authority that is mentioned on the MSP website has actually been repealled. They may now have unrestricted authority.

It always seemed goofy to restrict them in a city with a three officer department and not in unincorporated areas of urban counties.

FullGrownBear
02-09-2008, 09:03 PM
[QUOTE=noneyet;1097667]What some of you guys are forgetting is that in Florida the Sheriff is the top LEO in his county (sorry PD guys). It is not the Sheriffs Association but the state constitution that would make a state police impossible.]

The top LEO, huh? I'm still trying to find out where does it say that the Sheriff can take over an official investigation taken place/started by any "State" agency and for that matter a "P.D." investigation! Where is it in black & white? It is not in the "Constitution" nor in the "F.S."

Like you said, the Sheriff is the "Top LEO" but it is just for "County Officials". He has no control over the "State" or a "P.D." for that matter. Regardless of what you think, the "State" controls the "State". The "State" is in charge. Tell the "Governor" that the "Sheriff" runs him, and see what will be said! FDLE Commissioner is the Governors "STATE CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER!! Through the FDLE investigator the state/Governor can remove a Sheriff from office! So who is really in charge!

Listen, I care less of who's in charge! We are all L.E.O.'s! We all protect this state. So please stop the non-sense of who is #1. A State Police will never want to take over the entire state. This state is too big! LOL! We all can share a piece of the pie!! A State Police is now in effect regardless of what you think! We are all just in different departments/divisions, that's all! Like any othe State Police they will be the assistive role to the locals. It's a benefit to the locals. It is not intended to deprive them of their "Authority"!!

GatorPD
02-10-2008, 01:24 PM
Actually, techincally, a Sheriff can legally tell state officers to go pound sand if he wants. Does it actually happen? Not usually, but it can happen. Of course the Governor (or his representative) can override that. Obviously the Sheriff's authority doesnt cross county lines, so the Sheriff can't take over an investigation from FDLE for an inter-county issue, but he CAN, legally, take over an investigation that is occuring in his/her county (it has happened numerous times).

There is a sheriff in North Florida, I THINK it was Gadsden county, but it might have been Jefferson. Anyway, he basically told the FHP to stay the hell out of his county. It lasted about a week before he backed down (political pressure most likely), but it was perfectly legal. Again, the Governor (or designee, i.e. in that case possibly the director of the DHSMV) could have overridden that. I don't think it ever came to that though.

As far as removing the sheriff, only the governor or his designee can arrest a Sheriff. This does not automatically mean any FDLE agent can arrest a Sheriff. They have to have very-top-level approval for something like that, and that is something enforced exclusively by Executive Investigations, and not something done lightly. Remember, a Sheriff is elected, just like the Governor.

FullGrownBear
02-10-2008, 06:20 PM
Actually, techincally, a Sheriff can legally tell state officers to go pound sand if he wants. Does it actually happen? Not usually, but it can happen. Of course the Governor (or his representative) can override that. Obviously the Sheriff's authority doesnt cross county lines, so the Sheriff can't take over an investigation from FDLE for an inter-county issue, but he CAN, legally, take over an investigation that is occuring in his/her county (it has happened numerous times).

There is a sheriff in North Florida, I THINK it was Gadsden county, but it might have been Jefferson. Anyway, he basically told the FHP to stay the hell out of his county. It lasted about a week before he backed down (political pressure most likely), but it was perfectly legal. Again, the Governor (or designee, i.e. in that case possibly the director of the DHSMV) could have overridden that. I don't think it ever came to that though.

As far as removing the sheriff, only the governor or his designee can arrest a Sheriff. This does not automatically mean any FDLE agent can arrest a Sheriff. They have to have very-top-level approval for something like that, and that is something enforced exclusively by Executive Investigations, and not something done lightly. Remember, a Sheriff is elected, just like the Governor.

Neighbor, this technichal stuff you are talking will NEVER happen!! If it does it's because the other agency T.O.T.'d it over for lack of resources and for the better of the case!! A law enforcement officer conducting an investigation can not be removed unless he is doing something illegal or unethical. In fact if someone tried to take me off the scene for "just cause" and not because I was doing something "unethical, inmoral, etc." he will go to jail for interfering with my official duties!!!!!!! Guaranteed!! We all have the same power no one is better than the other!

I have a lot of respect for the Sheriff's! I respect rank in any agency! But NO ONE IS TELLING ME TO POUND SAND FOR NO REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for a Sheriff telling FHP to stay the hell out of his county, IT DID NOT WORK!! Your point is moot!! And if you new the entire story, the FHP DID NOT GO ANYWHERE!! FHP just had to take the calls from *FHP and not from the 911! That was all!!

GatorPD, this supreme authority crap is a meaningless argument! We all serve this state! We all help the security of this state. The Sheriff is powerful but just not that powerful like you think. Again, this technical stuff is a moot point. The Constitution makes him an elected position and F.S. gives him his authority. And neighbor, neither one says that he is the only cop in town!!

Much Respect to each and everyone of you individually!! Your brother at heart!

ftlaudcop
02-10-2008, 09:20 PM
now all the state police agencies can transport prisoner's / violators
from the state probation and parole office via f.s.s 948.06 and be taxie drivers.

the fla supreme court made a ruling yr's ago that the power of the
sheriff is ' paramount'....

each agency has a mission......

# 1 taking scumbags to jail kickin and screaming 1 way or via hospital clearance....:D

BOSMIA
02-11-2008, 11:45 AM
I just read on a board that FHP is getting 100 positions cut. I didn't see anything in the papers about this. Anyone know if it is true or not?

BOSMIA
03-25-2008, 06:20 PM
I am hearing more rumblings in regards to DOT - FHP merger in the works. Anyone got any info on this?

frostbiteCRA
03-25-2008, 08:56 PM
I am hearing more rumblings in regards to DOT - FHP merger in the works. Anyone got any info on this?

It's a plan to consolidate manpower and better group the resources. Also, talks like this have been going on for years. Like FHP and FDLE merging. At the end of the legislature section we should find out the outcome.

VCSOMotor91
03-25-2008, 10:25 PM
Do you use crash zone for your diagrams. If you do IPTM puts on an awesome school. Check it out. I do to scale diagrams faster then hand drwling and they look 10 times better.


The long form isn't a big deal. The big deal I have is using my agency's computerized diagram drawing system.

I'd trade that for a pencil and paper any day! ;)

BOSMIA
03-25-2008, 10:56 PM
Thanks Frost

dieselcop1042
04-04-2008, 09:03 AM
Fhp is not going away. House bill 5067 talks about the transfer of MCCO to FHP. It's a type 2 transfer, whatever programs MCCO has, i.e., CIP and Radiological Team will either be eliminated or absorped by FHP and use there Troopers to run the program. The Senate has SB920, which deals with pay and retention, but have not added the transfer of MCCO to FHP. At least seven positions will be eliminated from MCCO immediately, which includes the #1 and #2 guys. There will be more positions eliminated. I see Lt.'s, Cpt.'s and Maj.'s taking a hike. Mergers are design to cut costs. With that said, I'm totally against the merger and below is a study that states the facts. Itwas done several years ago, but it still applies today. In addition, is an attachment on SB920.

2194

2195:mad:

BOSMIA
04-04-2008, 01:36 PM
Thanks man. What's your opinion that the bill makes it through?

dieselcop1042
04-09-2008, 01:25 PM
I don't know. It's funny how this issue came up out of nowhere. I first saw this on the FLPBA website and then it snowballed. I sent the report to a few Senators and Reps. So far, the Senate did not add the merger amendment to SB920 and the Sheriff's Association has been working the Senate hard not to pass the merger bill. They fear that this is the beginning towards a State Police agency.

BOSMIA
04-09-2008, 06:37 PM
Ya I can see the Sheriff getting scared. Best of luck with everything man.

Department 30
04-14-2008, 05:41 PM
Wonder what the status of this is....

dieselcop1042
04-15-2008, 02:34 PM
So, this is the reason why you are interested in FHP? You may fail the PSYCHOLOGICAL SCREENING!


Statewide - $33,977.04 annually ($2,831.42 monthly)

dieselcop1042
04-15-2008, 04:27 PM
The House got sneaky. They moved the merger amendment to HB 1399. See page 388.

RBH1015
04-15-2008, 08:27 PM
Hey there everyone, I hope your all fine tonight, FHP is my dream job and i'm awaiting word on my pre app I submitted on 3/17/08. Hope it gets here this week! Take care

GatorPD
04-16-2008, 12:40 AM
Neighbor, this technichal stuff you are talking will NEVER happen!! If it does it's because the other agency T.O.T.'d it over for lack of resources and for the better of the case!! A law enforcement officer conducting an investigation can not be removed unless he is doing something illegal or unethical. In fact if someone tried to take me off the scene for "just cause" and not because I was doing something "unethical, inmoral, etc." he will go to jail for interfering with my official duties!!!!!!! Guaranteed!! We all have the same power no one is better than the other!

I have a lot of respect for the Sheriff's! I respect rank in any agency! But NO ONE IS TELLING ME TO POUND SAND FOR NO REASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for a Sheriff telling FHP to stay the hell out of his county, IT DID NOT WORK!! Your point is moot!! And if you new the entire story, the FHP DID NOT GO ANYWHERE!! FHP just had to take the calls from *FHP and not from the 911! That was all!!

GatorPD, this supreme authority crap is a meaningless argument! We all serve this state! We all help the security of this state. The Sheriff is powerful but just not that powerful like you think. Again, this technical stuff is a moot point. The Constitution makes him an elected position and F.S. gives him his authority. And neighbor, neither one says that he is the only cop in town!!

Much Respect to each and everyone of you individually!! Your brother at heart!

Let me put it to you in scenario form.

Trooper Bob starts making a lot of traffic stops in a small rural town in North Florida. The Sheriff of the county gets word after numerous citizen complaints. The Sheriff tells his undersheriff who tells his major who tells his captain who calls the FHP captain who calls his LT who calls his Sgt who calls the trooper and asks said trooper to go back to the interstate. (essentially, "go pack sand"). The trooper continues to make traffic stops on the county road in this small town. The Sheriff shows up himself on a traffic stop. When stop is over, the Sheriff asks the trooper to go back to the insterstate. The trooper tells the Sheriff... well all the stuff you said about the Sheriff not having the authority to do that, etc.

The Sheriff picks up his phone and calls the Governor's cell phone. Governor passes it off to one of his aides, who forwards the complaint to Electra Bustle. Obviously a busy person, the complaint gets forwarded to the Colonel, with a comment to "take care of this." The colonel forwards it down to the Trooper's supervisor, who is now in the hot spot, getting this email with everyone's name CCed to it.

What do you think will happen to the trooper?

frostbiteCRA
04-16-2008, 08:35 AM
Let me put it to you in scenario form.

Trooper Bob starts making a lot of traffic stops in a small rural town in North Florida. The Sheriff of the county gets word after numerous citizen complaints. The Sheriff tells his undersheriff who tells his major who tells his captain who calls the FHP captain who calls his LT who calls his Sgt who calls the trooper and asks said trooper to go back to the interstate. (essentially, "go pack sand"). The trooper continues to make traffic stops on the county road in this small town. The Sheriff shows up himself on a traffic stop. When stop is over, the Sheriff asks the trooper to go back to the interstate. The trooper tells the Sheriff... well all the stuff you said about the Sheriff not having the authority to do that, etc.

The Sheriff picks up his phone and calls the Governor's cell phone. Governor passes it off to one of his aides, who forwards the complaint to Electra Bustle. Obviously a busy person, the complaint gets forwarded to the Colonel, with a comment to "take care of this." The colonel forwards it down to the Trooper's supervisor, who is now in the hot spot, getting this email with everyone's name CCed to it.

What do you think will happen to the trooper?

This is a very rare and extreme situation. First of, Troopers and supervisors dont like complaints, and at the very first site of a complaint the supervisor will get involved (supervisors have to do paperwork for ANY and ALL inquiries). So, this is very unlikely to happen. Possible, but unlikely.
Secondly, as short as we are statewide, we have our hands full already on the interstate, so a Trooper conducting traffic stops and getting complaints on a rural county road is unlikely, but again still possible.
Thirdly, I would hope that if someone is complaining on a Trooper they would call the FHP station, not the sheriff's dept. Once that phone call is made and received by the supervisor, the complaint will stop. I dont see the sheriff being involved in any of this.
But again, FHP haters will always have something to say.

Bonz
04-16-2008, 10:32 AM
FHP haters will always have something to say.VERY TRUE

FullGrownBear
04-16-2008, 09:46 PM
Let me put it to you in scenario form.

Trooper Bob starts making a lot of traffic stops in a small rural town in North Florida. The Sheriff of the county gets word after numerous citizen complaints. The Sheriff tells his undersheriff who tells his major who tells his captain who calls the FHP captain who calls his LT who calls his Sgt who calls the trooper and asks said trooper to go back to the interstate. (essentially, "go pack sand"). The trooper continues to make traffic stops on the county road in this small town. The Sheriff shows up himself on a traffic stop. When stop is over, the Sheriff asks the trooper to go back to the insterstate. The trooper tells the Sheriff... well all the stuff you said about the Sheriff not having the authority to do that, etc.

The Sheriff picks up his phone and calls the Governor's cell phone. Governor passes it off to one of his aides, who forwards the complaint to Electra Bustle. Obviously a busy person, the complaint gets forwarded to the Colonel, with a comment to "take care of this." The colonel forwards it down to the Trooper's supervisor, who is now in the hot spot, getting this email with everyone's name CCed to it.

What do you think will happen to the trooper?

THEN YOU WOKE UP from that nice and peaceful little dream!!

Sir, I will continue to disagree with you and I see you will continue to disagree with me. However, this topic/conversation of the ALMIGHTY HORSE is useless to those on this forum. And quite honestly, I was embarrassed before and I'm even embarrassed right now for replying again to this. I just dont want for people to be blinded by what you and other State Government opposers say. All I can say is this, and let those that want, decide for themselves as to who is in control of the State.

Laws are put in place by elected (State) employees, laws/policies that govern what we do in the law enforcement field in Florida (Sheriffs Office, P.D.'s & State Police) are also made by (State) Employees which is (FDLE). All LAW ENFORCEMENT just does what they are told to do within the parameters given by (State) Government. There is no other way around it, Sir!!

In addition, to answer your question as to what will happen to the trooper after such an ignorant and quite honestly FUNNY request, to have me removed from conducting LEGAL business in the County, which by the way is part of the (State), from powers vested in me by the State of Florida, is not going to happen! If I'm given the authority that F.S.321 says I have, there is no one that can change the way I'm authorized to conduct business. Like I said, If I conduct my business in an illegal, inmoral or unethical way, then yes I can be told to pack sand! However, dont let the Sheriff, Chief of Police or even other State Police Agencies do something illegal, inmoral or unethical do the same because he/she in turn will be told to PACK SAND!

Let's put this ALMIGHTY HORSE TO SLEEP! It truly is not worth the TIME! Let's help those interested in coming to the law enforcement field figure out what LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY they should join from the interests they share with us!

BTW, to those reading this forum, please be PROUD of who you work for but NEVER DEGRADE, INSULT and BELITTLE your law enforcement BROTHER regardless of what YOU think! You never know what agency is your nearest BACK UP!

GatorPD
04-22-2008, 04:36 PM
Firstly, lay off the capslock. Secondly, if you are embarassed to reply, dont reply. Thirdly, Im a state police officer. Im not a hater. I work for the state and I know how it works. Its a sad truth that I am point out, and yes its a rare instance that it comes up, but every now and then this monster rears its ugly head, and 9 times out of 10, the county is going to win in an arguement against a state agency, becasue it isn't the Sheriff vs a state agency director/secretary... its the Sheriff against a state employee or first line supervisor. In a battle like that, whoever has the Governor's personal cell on speed dial is gonna win, thats just how it works. Sad but true.

frostbiteCRA
04-22-2008, 11:14 PM
LOL, you are killing me here. Laid off the subject already!

FullGrownBear
04-22-2008, 11:21 PM
Firstly, lay off the capslock. Secondly, if you are embarassed to reply, dont reply. Thirdly, Im a state police officer. Im not a hater. I work for the state and I know how it works. Its a sad truth that I am point out, and yes its a rare instance that it comes up, but every now and then this monster rears its ugly head, and 9 times out of 10, the county is going to win in an arguement against a state agency, becasue it isn't the Sheriff vs a state agency director/secretary... its the Sheriff against a state employee or first line supervisor. In a battle like that, whoever has the Governor's personal cell on speed dial is gonna win, thats just how it works. Sad but true.


LAY OFF THE CAPSLOCK? LOL!!! THIS IS TOO MUCH!!!!! Maybe this happens in your area. It doesnt happen in mine. I see a HUGE ETHICS problem there, if the Governor approves of such requests. I still refuse to believe that the Governor entertains childish requests like that. But if you say so........ The Sheriffs down here dont act like children! We have a strong relationship where I'm at! All of us down here understand we are in it TOGETHER!!

Florida Smokey
04-23-2008, 06:37 AM
I agree with FullGrownBear. I've never had a problem with a Sheriff. In fact, it's been just the opposite. Heck, the Sheriff in my county directed traffic in the pouring down rain at one of my crash scenes and he's backed me up on a few traffic stops over the years. I think a vast majority of the Sheriffs in Florida appreciate FHP. Most of the citizen complaints they receive are for traffic related stuff. Traffic related stuff is also what can get in the way during election time. If the Sheriff has a good working relationship with FHP, they can leave the citations to us.

First, the odds of your scenario happening are slim to none. I think most Sheriffs have better things to do than worry about what some Trooper is doing. Second, I don't think it's possible to trespass someone from a roadway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a roadway is open to everyone, right? In essence, you are saying that the Sheriff would tell a Trooper he couldn't be there.

Third, if a Sheriff DID do something like that, it would be an unlawful order. You can't tell an officer who is lawfully executing his duties, that he can no longer do so.

Fourth, I have enough faith in my command staff to know that they would stick up for the Trooper in the VERY unlikely event that your scenario did occur.

ftlaudcop
04-23-2008, 08:03 PM
just for good laugh's, he could send ya to the jai to pass out toilet paper
and do head count , til ya get ya get head on st8,,,,:D

MrsPagan
04-23-2008, 08:41 PM
Up here in new york we just call them state troopers. They are highway patrol, they are state police officers, I think merging would be a great idea. I always get confused with all the departments you have in Florida, that must be alot of money to cover all those costs for different uniforms, equp. etc.

FullGrownBear
04-23-2008, 09:13 PM
just for good laugh's, he could send ya to the jai to pass out toilet paper
and do head count , til ya get ya get head on st8,,,,:D

Nah, that's his job.......!! LOL :D:D

FLTPRdude
04-24-2008, 01:25 AM
I am for the merger. I welcome the DOT guys to join our ranks. I know it is a small issue but DOT issue sidearm is the Sig P229 and FHP issue sidearm is the Beretta 96G. Would we keep on carrying the different weapons ? Would we go all Sig or all Beretta ? OR Take this opportunity to switch to Glock. My pick Glock 21SF...just hoping.

dieselcop1042
04-24-2008, 12:29 PM
I'm against the merger. At any rate, the reason this is happening is the FHP is a mismanaged agency, i.e., they are broke. Instead of firing the beefheads that caused it, they have to try to merge MCCO with FHP because it's an easy fix due to the FEDERAL dollars we get that they don't. In addtion, the Senate, the Trucking Association, and the Sheriff's Association are fighting against the merger. Friday, I believe is D-Day. We shall see.

FLTPRdude
04-24-2008, 07:48 PM
dieselcop1042, Are you Bay Co. S.O. ? Why are you against the merger. IMO if the merger happened it would not be the start of a state police.

FullGrownBear
04-24-2008, 08:28 PM
dieselcop1042, Are you Bay Co. S.O. ? Why are you against the merger. IMO if the merger happened it would not be the start of a state police.

Regardless of what people think, or the opposition from a State Police forming, Florida has a State Police. Our problem here in Florida is that all State Agencies are divided/separate. Not unified under one umbrella like it is up north. That's the only difference.

It does not make any sense! :confused::confused:

BOSMIA
04-26-2008, 02:20 AM
Looks like MCC and FHP merger is NOT happening at this time now.

ChRdy21799
04-26-2008, 02:33 AM
Looks like MCC and FHP merger is NOT happening at this time now.


Hey BOSMIA...I remember you asking a lot of questions about FHP and your interest in the pros/cons of the dept, did you decide to apply??

Just curious :)

BOSMIA
04-26-2008, 11:09 PM
Yes but had to post-pone my PAT. Will be taking that soon and looking to get in Jan 09 Academy.

jcioccke
06-17-2008, 09:06 PM
WOW Munlaw, I forgot all about this thread. lol

pyro2
06-17-2008, 09:40 PM
i havent seen a trooper on the highway here in days :/

BOSMIA
06-18-2008, 12:40 AM
i havent seen a trooper on the highway here in days :/

Miami???

They are down a boat load of Troopers.

ChRdy21799
06-18-2008, 02:13 AM
I can imagine some counties do not have 24-hour FHP coverage due to the situation they are currently in.

Malaru
06-18-2008, 02:40 AM
here we have 3 shifts/day and on each 1 trooper is assigned to the western two counties and the other 2 are assigned the eastern county- so not including special ops types, and special assignments- the avg. day has 3 officers per shift, 3 shifts per day- 3 counties, 24 hours, 9 troopers. :(

ERMDPD
06-18-2008, 02:51 AM
Miami???

They are down a boat load of Troopers.

I rarely see a trooper now when I go on the turnpike from Cutler Ridge to sw 40 st (bird rd) or sw 88 st (kendall dr).

Few years ago I would see a bunch of them, some times like 8 together all shooting radar it was awesome lol. You would see all the car brake lights coming on. Honestly the only reason I worry now about going on the turnpike is because im in the process with MDPD. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't worry too much about being stopped unless I spot a local PD on the turnpike. It's rare to see a FHP now. It isn't the same like it was a few years back. I'd get on the turnpike expecting to run into them.

jcioccke
06-18-2008, 07:24 AM
FL is really screwing up. It is perplexing that they still haven't taken care of the issues with FHP.

Imagine those roads in a few weeks.
Once drivers feel confident big brothers not watching, you will see an increase of accidents and death on those roads.

BOSMIA
06-18-2008, 11:14 AM
I rarely see a trooper now when I go on the turnpike from Cutler Ridge to sw 40 st (bird rd) or sw 88 st (kendall dr).

Few years ago I would see a bunch of them, some times like 8 together all shooting radar it was awesome lol. You would see all the car brake lights coming on. Honestly the only reason I worry now about going on the turnpike is because im in the process with MDPD. If it wasn't for that I wouldn't worry too much about being stopped unless I spot a local PD on the turnpike. It's rare to see a FHP now. It isn't the same like it was a few years back. I'd get on the turnpike expecting to run into them.

ya never see troopers on 95 in Dade either lately.

LeanG
06-18-2008, 11:18 AM
We're there. We're just reactive now. We don't have time to be proactive anymore...

The highways are yours. Enjoy. Send a Thank You note to your state representative.

ERMDPD
06-18-2008, 02:35 PM
We're there. We're just reactive now. We don't have time to be proactive anymore...

The highways are yours. Enjoy. Send a Thank You note to your state representative.

Lol... Hope things get better for you guys!

frostbiteCRA
06-18-2008, 05:38 PM
Lol... Hope things get better for you guys!

Thanks, but things are not going to get better. Been here 6 years and I can tell you year after year they (Gov't, Brass, union) have said "next year it's the year". Yeah right, next year is the year that nothing happens. It's so pathetic. As far as enforcement? We are out there, just busy working everything since we are so short we have to handle more stuff....Like LeanG said, enjoy the roads, they are all yours.

ChRdy21799
06-18-2008, 06:39 PM
This may sound ignorant of me, so I apologize......but I just don't get it. What are their reaons (State legislature, Tallahassee, Governor's office) for putting the issues of FHP on the back-burner?? Why do they not want to deal with it? They have heard your guys' voices and have been made well aware of the issues and concerns of FHP employees, but why no action?

I wonder what they think up there in Tallahassee when they get the numbers of Troopers leaving each month and going elsewhere. Do they think because there is a current or upcoming Academy class those newbies will fill all the ranks of those who just left?

Just doesn't make sense.

Taylor13
06-18-2008, 07:11 PM
Holy s***, FHP has a smaller budget the Broward Sheriff's Office! That is unbelievable...

Keep in mind, BSO patrols the un-industrialized parts of the county (I don't know if thats the right way to put it) they also have 2 - 3 helicopters and all the stuff a regular sheriffs department has, I'm pretty sure FHP has a SWAT team and a lot of patrol cars not much else. At least, that's what I've heard.

frostbiteCRA
06-19-2008, 01:13 AM
Keep in mind, BSO patrols the un-industrialized parts of the county (I don't know if thats the right way to put it) they also have 2 - 3 helicopters and all the stuff a regular sheriffs department has, I'm pretty sure FHP has a SWAT team and a lot of patrol cars not much else. At least, that's what I've heard.

Also, BSO has many more people than FHP, and the jails, courts, more equipment...Our SWAT it's not a regular SWAT per se. It's a Tactical Reaction Team and not every troop has one.

E3CSHARP
06-19-2008, 02:10 AM
There has to be something that can be done about this. These RealEstate band wagon riders should pay for this after they jacked up the prices on housing in Florida. Why should the citizens have to pay for this BS. These stupid banks that appraise 2/2 houses at half a million dollars. Like WTH is that. And now things are crashing down and these pencil pushers are cutting budgets and making every Florida citizen suffer.

There has to be something more effective that can be done. People need to know this is BS. The state need to clamp down on these money hungry real estate pocket thieves.

ftlaudcop
06-19-2008, 10:34 AM
I ran across a trooper and i noticed his 1984 name tag, and remarked
that we both had same amount of time in just about, he may have been a lil
older than me, or the oil of olay had not kicked in, i told him my yrly average, if i take the pension, drop and my calculations, his jaw hit the floor, with his yrly average, he would prob have to do a total of 35 yr w/o
the drop program, needless to say, i told him he shoulda made the switch 15 yrs ago !

Taylor13
06-19-2008, 06:18 PM
Also, BSO has many more people than FHP, and the jails, courts, more equipment...Our SWAT it's not a regular SWAT per se. It's a Tactical Reaction Team and not every troop has one.

Yeah, I don't think FHP has helicopters, I'm pretty sure whatever county their chasing through, they'll use the helicopter of that county, correct?

frostbiteCRA
06-19-2008, 08:03 PM
Yeah, I don't think FHP has helicopters, I'm pretty sure whatever county their chasing through, they'll use the helicopter of that county, correct?

That is correct. Our helicopters went to FWC back about 10 years ago.

Taylor13
06-19-2008, 09:44 PM
That is correct. Our helicopters went to FWC back about 10 years ago.

Wow, was that part of a cost cutting initiative?

frostbiteCRA
06-19-2008, 10:18 PM
I'm sure. According to a helicopter pilot Sgt that since retired, the cost of operating a helicopter was too expensive. I do have Cessna's still for speed enforcement and other things (emergency transport of vital organs for transplants, anti-venom transport to various hospital throughout the state, evacuation route patrol, ect. etc).

Taylor13
06-20-2008, 12:05 PM
Oh, those air patrolled things on I-95 and the Turnpike aren't fake? I've never seen a Cessna patrolling though..

frostbiteCRA
06-20-2008, 04:52 PM
Oh, those air patrolled things on I-95 and the Turnpike aren't fake? I've never seen a Cessna patrolling though..

Ohh buddy, let me tell you, those signs that you see on the highways are not fake. We do aircraft detail ALL of the time....Specially on Holidays. Sometimes the Cessna are hard to spot. They flight at 2500 feet.

LATIN COP
06-20-2008, 05:30 PM
Is it true that FHP got a 5% raise from the senate and anouther 5% raise from DMV?

Taylor13
06-20-2008, 06:22 PM
Ohh buddy, let me tell you, those signs that you see on the highways are not fake. We do aircraft detail ALL of the time....Specially on Holidays. Sometimes the Cessna are hard to spot. They flight at 2500 feet.

Oh, I guess that's why I never see them.

Airlinerd
06-20-2008, 08:54 PM
State Police will never happen! The Florida Sheriffs Association will not let that happen.


The FHP will not be going anywhere. The public will not let it happen. If FHP will be disbanded, there will be a huge public outcry.

Actually a FSP makes sense in the rural counties. Here in NY the duel NYSP local SO's is a great combination that work's really well so I do think it will happen. The only Sheriff Office that might be up in arms is Brevard but I doubt they'd make that a huge deal.

Airlinerd
06-20-2008, 08:59 PM
Ohh buddy, let me tell you, those signs that you see on the highways are not fake. We do aircraft detail ALL of the time....Specially on Holidays. Sometimes the Cessna are hard to spot. They flight at 2500 feet.

But usually in the more rural flight paths as KMCO even KJAX and KCRG are busy places. Hey frostbite, does FHP ever patrol 9A in JAX or is it JSO contracted, with the westside or 295 as your territory?

frostbiteCRA
06-21-2008, 10:13 AM
Is it true that FHP got a 5% raise from the senate and anouther 5% raise from DMV?

No. We only got 5%.

frostbiteCRA
06-21-2008, 10:16 AM
But usually in the more rural flight paths as KMCO even KJAX and KCRG are busy places. Hey frostbite, does FHP ever patrol 9A in JAX or is it JSO contracted, with the westside or 295 as your territory?

I'm station in South Florida, but I'm sure if it's unincorporated state road FHP patrols it up there.

Taylor13
06-21-2008, 10:40 PM
But usually in the more rural flight paths as KMCO even KJAX and KCRG are busy places. Hey frostbite, does FHP ever patrol 9A in JAX or is it JSO contracted, with the westside or 295 as your territory?

How do you know so much about Florida if it says you live in NY? I'm just curious..


I'm station in South Florida, but I'm sure if it's unincorporated state road FHP patrols it up there.

Are you at the troop thats right where I-595 is?

Airlinerd
06-22-2008, 01:16 AM
How do you know so much about Florida if it says you live in NY? I'm just curious..

Well I was at JU for a year before personal reasons forced me out. Ironically, I was and still am a student pilot; so the Cessna 172S (FHP's plane) is very familiar to me.

LATIN COP
06-22-2008, 01:56 AM
No. We only got 5%.

Sorry to hear. Hope u guys get a good pay out soon.

Taylor13
06-22-2008, 11:43 AM
Well I was at JU for a year before personal reasons forced me out. Ironically, I was and still am a student pilot; so the Cessna 172S (FHP's plane) is very familiar to me.

Oh, I was just wondering...

BOSMIA
06-24-2008, 01:01 PM
I believe Troop K is Miami. Troop L is Davie

Taylor13
06-24-2008, 03:57 PM
Oh Troop L is what I'm talkin' about. They had an APC ampibian looking thing parked out there for a little while I wanted to drive it! I wanna knock down a door :D

AvalancheZ71
06-24-2008, 04:36 PM
I'm station in South Florida, but I'm sure if it's unincorporated state road FHP patrols it up there.

Their are no unicorporated areas in Duval County. It is a consolidated government with Jacksonville, with included cities such as Baldwin, Atlantic Beach, and Jacksonville Beach.


Actually all of I-295 is SR 9A. Most of I-95 is SR 9 except south of the Golden Glades interchange then it is SR 9A with SR 9 diverting off as a surface road.

Airlinerd
06-24-2008, 06:56 PM
Their are no unicorporated areas in Duval County. It is a consolidated government with Jacksonville, with included cities such as Baldwin, Atlantic Beach, and Jacksonville Beach.


Actually all of I-295 is SR 9A. Most of I-95 is SR 9 except south of the Golden Glades interchange then it is SR 9A with SR 9 diverting off as a surface road.

And JSO has rights to Baldwin so the only non-JSO places in Duval are Atlantic and Jacksonville Beach PD.

11b101abn
06-25-2008, 12:20 PM
I don't know, I'm not familiar with their mission. You're from Georgia, are they a full-service agency?



And? What's your point? Just because all states have "troopers" doesn't mean that all of them are primary, call-taking, officers. As I've mentioned, many state police agencies primary duty is TRAFFIC.



Georgia State Patrol is a traffic oriented agency. Not full service, although like many other state and highway patrols, they will often assist on calls that require additional manpower and the like.

Hawaii has a state sheriff's office, but I dont know what his duties are.

Airlinerd
06-26-2008, 08:35 PM
Georgia State Patrol is a traffic oriented agency. Not full service, although like many other state and highway patrols, they will often assist on calls that require additional manpower and the like.

Hawaii has a state sheriff's office, but I dont know what his duties are.

After reading many a article on the Hawaii sheriff; they act as a Highway Patrol and the main cops on the small islands. Hawaii only has county police except for Honolulu which is the exception. As an aside; the Sheriff's Office also handles Corrections like a County Sheriff.

frostbiteCRA
06-27-2008, 08:27 PM
I believe Troop K is Miami. Troop L is Davie

Troop K is actually the whole Turnpike from Florida City To Wildwood (about 300+ miles). Also Troop K covers the Sawgrass Expressway (21 miles of toll road in western Broward County), and I think the Veterans Parkway out west by Tampa. Troop L covers from Broward Co. north to Indian River Co.

ChRdy21799
06-27-2008, 11:39 PM
Hey Frost, those guys that are on the Alligator Alley Squad....which Troop do they belong to? I'm starting to see those guys in really remote parts out there....by themselves too!

Taylor13
06-27-2008, 11:42 PM
How come we can't send these guys out in 2 - 3 man units, that's really dangerous having A SINGLE trooper on a huge stretch of road!

ChRdy21799
06-27-2008, 11:49 PM
From hearing others talk, they instill that "you're by yourself on the highway" mentality in the Academy.

On the flip side, getting closer to Naples on the Alley sometimes you can catch 3 or 4 them doing team radar.

frostbiteCRA
06-28-2008, 11:55 AM
Hey Frost, those guys that are on the Alligator Alley Squad....which Troop do they belong to? I'm starting to see those guys in really remote parts out there....by themselves too!

The Alley Squad is made of of Troopers from both side of the state. Some are Troop L, and others F.
2-3 man units??? YEAH RIGHT? I wish man. If that was the case we would have 3,000 Trooper for the whole state. And also we could actually make a difference in traffic enforcement. And yes they teach us at the academy that we are by ourselves out there. Even on a regular shift, my backup could be anywhere between a few miles away, to over 30.
As it stands now, there are about 1,500 to 1800 Troopers in Florida (the number is a secret for some reason). Not all are road Troopers, so by the time you compressed that number and take Lt's and up is more like 1000-1200. Then you have to divide that by shifts, people on leave, medical leave, ect. So by the time all is said and done, there could be 800-900 Road Troopers actually working. Our interstates alone cannot be covered by that manpower, let alone state roads, county roads, etc.
:)

BOSMIA
06-29-2008, 08:46 PM
Troop K is actually the whole Turnpike from Florida City To Wildwood (about 300+ miles). Also Troop K covers the Sawgrass Expressway (21 miles of toll road in western Broward County), and I think the Veterans Parkway out west by Tampa. Troop L covers from Broward Co. north to Indian River Co.

Thanks

BOSMIA
06-29-2008, 08:48 PM
The Alley Squad is made of of Troopers from both side of the state. Some are Troop L, and others F.
2-3 man units??? YEAH RIGHT? I wish man. If that was the case we would have 3,000 Trooper for the whole state. And also we could actually make a difference in traffic enforcement. And yes they teach us at the academy that we are by ourselves out there. Even on a regular shift, my backup could be anywhere between a few miles away, to over 30.
As it stands now, there are about 1,500 to 1800 Troopers in Florida (the number is a secret for some reason). Not all are road Troopers, so by the time you compressed that number and take Lt's and up is more like 1000-1200. Then you have to divide that by shifts, people on leave, medical leave, ect. So by the time all is said and done, there could be 800-900 Road Troopers actually working. Our interstates alone cannot be covered by that manpower, let alone state roads, county roads, etc.
:)

30 miles away!!!! wow!! Scary!!!

frostbiteCRA
06-30-2008, 11:26 AM
30 miles away!!!! wow!! Scary!!!

YUP! Tell me about!

dannmann1050
07-01-2008, 12:01 AM
Is it true that some still go 10-50 and don't call it on the radio?? When I worked in Brevard it had been common knowledge at that time that "radio chatter" wasn't tollerated and you were just on your own. Just curious if that State has moved forward for Officer Safety concerns

BOSMIA
09-29-2008, 09:27 PM
I am sorry, but that is just stupid. There is no need to restrict their authority. If a trooper is driving by my house and sees it being vandalized (a misdemeanor), I don't want him to keep driving because his hands are tied.

Obviously an agency directive that restricts the "mission" of the department to traffic stuff, because troopers don't necessarily need to be patrolling my neighborhood, but tying their hands by law is a majorly bad idea.

On the note of merger, I think Aglaw, MCC, and FHP could easilly be merged. Some people complain about the differences in hiring standards, that an aglaw officer wouldnt "cut it" as a trooper, etc... no one says they have to be the same job classification or do the same thing. Do you think every single deputy sheriff does the same job within a sheriff's office? No, you have detectives, patrol deputies, school resource, etc. If you merge the departments, you leave MCC guys doing commercial vehicle stuff. Troopers keep doing traffic. Ag guys keep their stuff up. There are certainly some areas of redundacy that could be removed (I-10 has an ag station and a dot station within 2 miles of each other. Those could be merged).

Basically, the guys currently in Ag could take over all the weigh and inspection stations (for both Ag and DoT. Do it all at once at the same spots). DoT guys keep driving around looking for commercial stuff, just encorporating a little bit more general traffic into their routine. The reverse for troopers. They would all be "florida highway patrol" but they would be in differnet divisions. If an inspection station trooper (previously Aglaw) wants to go to the road, then he puts in a transfer request. If deemed appropriate, then he moves to the road patrol division. Their cars would all look the same, the uniforms too (maybe a different rocker under the patch designating the Division). You could probably stick Capitol Police in there too. Many states patrol their capitol buildings with troopers.

It would be easy to merge a few of the investigative agencies together too. Stick Fire and Arson, Alcohol and Tobacco, DEP (investigations), Consumer Services (AgLaw's investigators), Insurance Fraud, and Lottery investigators under FDLE. Again, as above, FDLE has different divisions already. White Collar investigators don't do general cases. Protective Operations agents don't investigate crimes at the Racinos. You would just add in new groups of special agents assigned to work environmental crimes, or arsons, or alcohol and tobacco, etc. Once merged, agents could of course request transfers to another division just like FDLE currently allows.

That only leaves FWC and DEP. DEP could potentially go with the FHP group above, but I think would be better suited to merge with FWC (previously marine patrol, etc). Again, if a DEP guy wants to transfer to game enforcement, he puts in a transfer request. It might require additional training.

I guess my point is that merging agencies does not require the employee pools to be squished all together and make everyone do the same job. It would cut some higher level positions (those guys who make 100 and 150k a year), alleviate a lot of the non-sworn support (no need for 4 different HR departments), save some money, make a little more uniformity, but all without adding any real "extra power" to any of the agencies. I think if done right and spun right, the FSA might not oppose it.... but what do I know.


I was re-reading some older threads. This is a great post. With the State fighting budget issues, merging some issues seems to be a good idea, and a way to cut costs.

BOSMIA
09-29-2008, 09:28 PM
I am sorry, but that is just stupid. There is no need to restrict their authority. If a trooper is driving by my house and sees it being vandalized (a misdemeanor), I don't want him to keep driving because his hands are tied.

Obviously an agency directive that restricts the "mission" of the department to traffic stuff, because troopers don't necessarily need to be patrolling my neighborhood, but tying their hands by law is a majorly bad idea.

On the note of merger, I think Aglaw, MCC, and FHP could easilly be merged. Some people complain about the differences in hiring standards, that an aglaw officer wouldnt "cut it" as a trooper, etc... no one says they have to be the same job classification or do the same thing. Do you think every single deputy sheriff does the same job within a sheriff's office? No, you have detectives, patrol deputies, school resource, etc. If you merge the departments, you leave MCC guys doing commercial vehicle stuff. Troopers keep doing traffic. Ag guys keep their stuff up. There are certainly some areas of redundacy that could be removed (I-10 has an ag station and a dot station within 2 miles of each other. Those could be merged).

Basically, the guys currently in Ag could take over all the weigh and inspection stations (for both Ag and DoT. Do it all at once at the same spots). DoT guys keep driving around looking for commercial stuff, just encorporating a little bit more general traffic into their routine. The reverse for troopers. They would all be "florida highway patrol" but they would be in differnet divisions. If an inspection station trooper (previously Aglaw) wants to go to the road, then he puts in a transfer request. If deemed appropriate, then he moves to the road patrol division. Their cars would all look the same, the uniforms too (maybe a different rocker under the patch designating the Division). You could probably stick Capitol Police in there too. Many states patrol their capitol buildings with troopers.

It would be easy to merge a few of the investigative agencies together too. Stick Fire and Arson, Alcohol and Tobacco, DEP (investigations), Consumer Services (AgLaw's investigators), Insurance Fraud, and Lottery investigators under FDLE. Again, as above, FDLE has different divisions already. White Collar investigators don't do general cases. Protective Operations agents don't investigate crimes at the Racinos. You would just add in new groups of special agents assigned to work environmental crimes, or arsons, or alcohol and tobacco, etc. Once merged, agents could of course request transfers to another division just like FDLE currently allows.

That only leaves FWC and DEP. DEP could potentially go with the FHP group above, but I think would be better suited to merge with FWC (previously marine patrol, etc). Again, if a DEP guy wants to transfer to game enforcement, he puts in a transfer request. It might require additional training.

I guess my point is that merging agencies does not require the employee pools to be squished all together and make everyone do the same job. It would cut some higher level positions (those guys who make 100 and 150k a year), alleviate a lot of the non-sworn support (no need for 4 different HR departments), save some money, make a little more uniformity, but all without adding any real "extra power" to any of the agencies. I think if done right and spun right, the FSA might not oppose it.... but what do I know.


I was re-reading some older threads. This is a great post. With the State fighting budget issues, merging some issues seems to be a good idea, and a way to cut costs.